I've been re-reading my reloading books on black powder cartridges. It seems there is a consensus that a grease cookie is necessary for paper patched bullets if one doesn't want to clean after every shot but there is no consensus of grease cookies for the lubed bullet.

Is a grease cookie necessary for lubed bullets for multiple shots?

Now onto the wad. It seems that a wad would not be necessary for gas-checked bullets unless one is also using a grease cookie. It seems to me that the gas-check acts as the wad to protect the bullet from gas and seal the bullet so that gas cannot get around the bullet.

I understand how the gas-check works, right? Is a wad still needed if one doesn't use a grease cookie with a gas check?

I was going to PM this to some of the BPCR gurus but I thought maybe others would be interested as well.

Shooting dirty is regulated more by the bullet design then fouling control.
You can shoot with or with out a wad if you want to using a GG bullet or patched but dont expect the accuracy with repeated shots that you get with using some sort of fouling control.

If you're using a good bpcr type bullet and blackpowder lube, grease cookies aren't necessary.
Grease cookies are most handy in paper patched loads used for hunting.
Wads either fiber or ldpe or cork or felt are generally left to the preference of the rifle and the one that yanks on said rifles trigger.

What is a grease cookie? is it something new, I have been shooting BP for 40 yrs and never heard of them until now.

Hubert for a knowitall sumbich, you're certainly and ignorant bastid.

Gall durn Hubert, a grease cookie is a homemade sugar cookie made from hog-butt tallow, they good too.

Gunner

You are right, I am totally ignorant of things that appear to be made up buy some dumb bastard that dosen't know the proper name for it.FU.

A hog does not have tallow. they have lard.

LOL

Gunner

Just out of curosity why do you feel it was nessary to call me a know it all , sumbitch and an igorant bastard, all I did was ask a simple question and I get treated like that. That might make some new people wonder if they want to post on the campfire.

You really need to quit sucking on that finger, Bud,....it's affecting your mind.

e.g. "what's a grease cookie",......"What's White Powder",...

GTC

I am not the one acting like an idiot here.

You are a brave son of a b---h when you are 2000 miles away.

also learn how to spell you dumb chit.

Right,

......septic tank.

GTC

another brave one.

"The term labrick was in constant use by all grown men except certain of the clergy in the state of Missouri when I was a boy. It had a very definite meaning & occupied in the matter of strength the middle ground between scoundrel & son of a bitch...But...let me brush aside the ornamental & give you the plain & authentic definition of the word. Labrick is substantially ass, a little enlarged & emphasized; let us say, labrick is a little stronger than ass, & not quite as strong as idiot."

- Letter to Benjamin Eli Smith, 8/6/1906 Authored by Mark Twain

I never got my education drinking and parting in collage so I am lacking in a formal education. But I received my education by doing things, like spending 3 years in Alaske in the military. where I hunted , fished and spent some of my leave time working on a Dairy farm in Palmer. I got my first rifle on my 6th birthday and was taught to shoot by my uncles that were real mountain Men. My experiances are too numerus to write about here. and I releize many of the people on here are envious of my vast knowledge and experiences, while theirs are from reading gun magazines and their fantasies and day dreams.

Troll.

OK.

"Don't be so humble - you are not that great."
- Golda Meir (1898-1978)

They gave me my first mini-gun at age 20. Matriculated at the infamous A Shau University w/graduate work at Hamburger Hill College of Fine Art and Explosives. Later on I switched majors and attended the Ben Het Monastery to enhance my vocabulary. Few give a chitt and fewer are envious. Residents of 49 other states and the rest of planet earth don't care much about how it was done in Alaska back in the day. The future is in front of you, not in your hip pocket.

The "Labrick" state of being is voluntary.

I could not have guessed when I started this thread on grease cookie and wad that it would go in this direction. This site is amazing sometimes.

derby, that's why this forum doesn't see much use. To many trolls and no moderators. Any usable information gets lost behind the postings of "exspurts" like the swampas and the labrick from pennstate.
Hard to have a conversation that means much in this sort of conditions.

and too many wannabees.but can't.

Who else besides you and Swampy? You two seem to be the only ones that fit that discription around here.

Ya, I'm finding that out.

It seems like just about any thread on any one of the forums turns into a pizzing contest after the first page and any useful information is lost.

DD, That's pretty much the specialty of 24hr. Keeps potatoes on dinner plates for the site owner I guess.

the Shiloh forum is certainly the best place to go for actual information, though, like all the internet, everything has to be verified personally.

Yes it's all my fault. I asked a simple question and get jumped on with both feet. I will keep my dumb questions to myself from now on.

Not to pour gas on the fire, but the only "mistake" you made Hubert was letting the cat out of the bag that you've "been shooting BP for 40 years" and had never heard of a grease cookie. I have been shooting BP for only about 22 years in MLs and 15 years in BPCR type firearms. Found out early on that most who use grease cookies either have been using bullets with inadequate grease groove capacity, an ineffective lubricant or are trying to drive the bullet too fast (i.e. - too much powder). Some rifles are just finicky and need a lot of trial and error experimentation to get something it likes. I, personally, have never used grease cookies but I had a number of "mentors" who had done a lot of/all the experimenting prior to passing on their knowledge my way. None of us (yes, I include myself) know all the answers, but a bunch of us (others more than me) know a lot of them or will let others know where to go to get an answer. So keep asking the questions . . . assuming you are open to answers that don't fit your preconceived notions. Also know that even the "right" answer may not be the exact solution to your specific situation.

Most of the info I have seen given on this forum have been good, honest, thoughtful insights to a varying sport.

I started shooting BP in 1971 when I came back from Nam. and no I never heard of a grease cookie. maby I never read the same books as you all did. If I have read about them then it has slipped my mind. I shot compition in a rod and gun club for 6 years and if someone in the club was using them they would of shared the info with others.I don't now what youmean by I let the cat out of the bag? do you mean that I am lying about what I don't know but would have if I had of been doing the things I say I was? you can rest assured that there are a lot of things I don't know, for instance I worked horses all my life but know very little about the art of riding them. I don't lie or make stuff up to try to impress anyone.

I don't know if anyone ever gave you a straight answer to what a grease cookie is, so I will.

It's bullet lube. Usually sandwiched between the base of the bullet and the powder with a wad on either end. The wad can be a normal fiber wad or wax paper, or a poly wad, or whatever you like. The lube portion of the cookie can be anywhere from 0.1" thick to 3/8" thick.

If you shoot grease groove bullets with grooves large enough, the cookie is usually not necessary. If you shoot a paper-patched bullet, the cookie can be essential for some applications.

The lube itself can be any of a variety of concoctions, featuring eyes of newts, etc. Or it might be as simple as plain beeswax or even paraffin, as seen in some military rounds.

The cookie can have four different applications. It can lube the bullet (but of course since it is BEHIND the bullet, it really can't lube the first one, only the subsequent bullets.

It can help seal the bore until the bullet obdurates and seals the bore to prevent gas cutting.

It can lay down a thin layer of lube on the walls of the bore making it more difficult for the fouling to stick to the steel and thus easier for the subsequent shot to navigate the barrel w/o damage.

It can also be a means of occupying case space in the event you want to shoot a big long cartridge like a .45-3.25" w/o paying the penalty of a huge recoil.

Perhaps a 5th purpose of the grease cookie is to serve as dead goat stand in that everyone can kick and fight over. But I don't think that is really a traditional use of the grease cookie.

Asking the question wasn't the problem in my opinion it was the grin emoticon after the question that was the problem. Many, including myself, thought you were joking. Then you keep the joke going and more emoticons. If you ask a serious question skip the emoticon.

Geez . . . a guy tries to stand up for you and get you off the hook and you jump him. YOU admitted to not knowing what a grease cookie was and then put a smiley face at the end. Where did I even IMPLY that you had lied??? NEVER MIND. Keep digging . . .

I was trying to smile away my embarresment of not knowing something.