I am aware of Kelley Blue Book on line. I have researched that infomation on more than one occasion. Nonetheless it seems they are willing to go even lower when you negotiate at the stealership.

Is there a place that will tell you exactly the absolute rock bottom a dealer can sell it for? Where is the secret number?

I am beating the bushes real hard for a new toyota tacoma, and I called about 6 dealers last night. One guy said on a regular cab 4 cyliner 05 standard transmm that he could break $18,000. I am going to try and get one dealer bidding against another but when do you know they have hit bottom?

Thanks you all!

The last two trucks I've bought,I never walked into the dealership until it was time to sign the papers. I've found in Wa. anyways,that dealing directly with the fleet manager,gets me the best prices on vehicles. I find what I want,email the fleet manager and a few hours later I've got a no haggle price in front of me.

When I bought my 2500HD,the fleet manager came down over $10K dollars without the blink of an eye. I emailed a few other dealers,and got deals very similar in price. I went with the first dealer because they were the closest to home.

Mossy;

Thanks for the reply. I am totally ignorant as concerns the chain of command of a car lealership. All I am familiar with is salesman and sales manager. Is the Fleet manager what you call a sales manager or is he above that?

Thanks a million, your tactic seems to make sense.

I have found that if you get a price and walk away, the price magically drops even more.Wife and I did this on her car and they came down $6000 from their already "sale price". The dealer called at least 3 times with a lower price each time, at one point we were within $100 of the price we needed and still said no. He waited untill the next day and told us we could get it for $50 less than the price we "needed". It seemed to have work real well. BTW the Tacoma is a great truck.

I don't know exactly whos ahead of who,but I'd say the Fleet manager is ahead of the sales manager. When dealing with the fleet manager,he/she doesn't have to go "talk with the sales manager". All the dealings are done exclusively with the FM. Thats why I like dealing with the FM,you don't have to endure any of the typical salesman BS.

I've had several people tell me the same thing. Make an appointment with the Fleet Man. and you don't have to put up with crap from the salesman.

Kelley's is an inflated value used mostly by dealers. Try Edmunds.com or Cars.com for a different range of values. Do all of your research via the 'Net. Know exactly what dealer invoice is. Tell them your price and then disengage. If you ask enough dealers, eventually someone will bite on the price. The dealer needs to sell cars to survive... normally, you don't need a new car as badly. Use the leverage and wait, wait, wait.

Dixie, find the dealer invoice price at someplace like Edmunds.com and start there. If there is any incentive money from Toyota to the dealer (sometimes a couple thousand bucks or more that the dealer doesn't usually tell anyone about) they might sell below invoice.

dave

Dixie,
your mileage may vary, but USUALLY:

smaller rural stores are less likely to try and play the "games" that some of the larger "big city" stores try...the smaller stores tend to be more dependant on referral biz...at metro stores there is a tendency to worry less about each individual "up" as there will be another duck on the pond shortly to take a shot at if they miss this one.

do your homework, spend some time in the local coffee shops & listen to what the locals are saying about the dealership's sales and service satisfaction...with all the electronic & computer components on the new vehicles you WILL need to service that new truck somewhere. To coin a cliche', "the best deal is not always the cheapest price"...if the service dept can't pour piss out of a boot with the directions on the heel they can cause a lot of aggravation...life's too short .

don't expect to "steal" the newest model that the dealer can't get enough of from the factory, you'll get a better deal on a vehicle that the dealer has a higher days supply of...he wants off of them and the factory probably has bigger incentives on those units.

call the store; if you're calling a small store ask for the dealer(owner), he's the guy you'll get your best deal from, tell him you're in the market for a new truck and want a deal,ask how much over his net cost (not invoice) would he be willing to sell you one for?

if your'e calling a big store ask for the general manager or the general sales mgr...the other mgr's report to him(new car, new truck, fleet etc), you're probably not going to get the owner..ask the same question.

usually the incentives (rebates) are bigger at the end of the month (or quarter) than they are at the beginning.

usually you can get a better deal on a vehicle that's in stock as opposed to one the dealer has to locate & buy from another dealer.

if for some twisted reason you enjoy shopping & really have too much time on your hands pay attention the the stock numbers on the vehicles...generally the lower the number, the longer the vehicle has been in inventory...1) dealers are more likely to cut a slimmer deal on an aged unit, and B) most manufacturers have several price increases during the year which means that a truck with with an older "birthday" may be several hundred $'s cheaper than an identical unit that's "younger".

shop around, but remember if it sounds to good to be true etc etc...you know...shoots flat to 800 yds, knocks them off their feet, & recoils like a 243, ammo is cheap, ad naseum.

treat the guy you're buying a truck from like your local gun dealer...until he doesn't deserve it..it's the golden rule thing..you'll get a better deal by not being afflicted by cranial rectosis...just like 20% of the "hunters" do the sh*t that the rest of us get blamed for...same rule applies to most dealers...some are real poindexters, but not all.

sorry for the length of this post, hope it helps.

if you want to send me a pm i can help you keep the local ford & chevy guys "honest" re. their pricing.

davey

Well, not sure of a "place" but there is a source.

1. Buy the truck at whatever you think is the lowest price.
2. Find some guy who bought that exact same truck from that same dealer.
3. He will have bought it for less.

From "Murphy's Blue Book Guide to Automobile Purchasing" <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Davey,

Yours is the best advice I've seen here (and elsewhere). Country/rural dealership and talk to "the man". Consulting Edmonds 1st and having your data together dont hurt at all. Be flexible on what you "must have".

This is an interesting read. Why cant buying a truck be simple? Go to the GMC web site, select the options you like, the color you want and click enter. Then the dealer just provides alternatives for finance or mx?

Why all the pricing games? Why Can't they just put the sticker in the window and let the buyer decide? Maybe that's why everyone has so much respect for car salesman? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Old Toot - you said everything i said, but said it in a short, simple, paragraph.

wow....i NEED to drink a little less coffee <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

rdinak - how much simpler do you want it? They do put a sticker on the window with a price on it & the dealer does provide (usually) finance options. Just pay what the price tag says...it happens every day with clothes, food, etc. The consumer makes it complicated because we want "the best price" <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Seriously though, there are a tremendous amount of things that affect pricing...supply & demand, incentives to the dealer, consumer incentives put there because some genius overforecasted how many of what model would sell (and then didn't), interest rates, the list goes on and on. We still haven't talked about trade values, and then there's the increases we all pay due to lawsuits...lets not even go down that path...we've all heard the stories of gun manufacturers being sued because there firearms were used in a crime..same bs in the car biz....the same set of variables that affect all types of small business.

Yes, car guys rank right up there with dentist, doctors, and attorneys on the list of people we all like to go see...and usually for good reason...i just found out that a large portion of dental hygenists get paid partly on commission...think about that one the next time you're in the chair and are told you "need a little work done". Remember the 80/20 rule...hunters, bikers, sailors, car salesman, gun dealers, democrats ( <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> oops...nomex suit on) .

do your homework, find a guy you feel you can trust, and then shop him a little to keep him competitive...it's just like buying anything else only on a little bigger scale, and there is definitely things that are more fun than buying a new vehicle.

davey

If anyone needs help buying a Ford truck or car, you can PM me....
dave

Well, I just bought a 2004 Nissan Titan for a few thousand below invoice.

The best time to buy a car is around the first of the year. In my case, the dealers wanted to dump the '04 inventory to make room for the '05 models. I knew exactly what the invoice price was from Edmunds and other Internet sources. I also knew Nissan was offering a $2,000 instant rebate.

By the time I started hitting showrooms, I knew more about the '04 Titans than most of the salespeople. I found a truck I liked and made an offer.

Like anything, the best time to shop is when you don't need something. Always be willing to walk away if you don't get the price you want. Don't fall in a love with a particular truck, at least not if you want to get the best price. The more information you have walking in, the better. Don't let dealers rip you off on the trade-in or financing or extended warranties... which is exactly where they'll try to make up money on a low price. If this doesn't work, I suggest marrying the daughter of the guy who owns a local dealership. Family members always get great deals.

Hampstead,

Great advice.

Steve

Check out carsdirect.com. If the dealer doesn't deal much its nice to have the leverage of telling them the carsdirect price and if they can beat it.

Like some of the others have mentioned talk directly to the fleet manager.
When I bought my 2k Wrangler in '99 I asked for the fleet managers name, number and the VIN off the jeep I wanted. The salesman came back WITH the fleet manager who right there on the spot quoted my a price of 22.5k; down 5k from the listed 27.5k. It was absolutely amazing the change in the attitude there as soon as I asked for the fleet managers information. I instantly became the salesman�s new best buddy. Not sure if he was scared of the fleet manager or what and that doesn�t matter because I got what I wanted.

The last car I negotiated was a '03 Subaru Outback (perfect car for Colorado btw). We went to 3 different dealers and asked for their best bottom line number with taxes included. We spun a small web of deceit by telling the salesman that we were in no hurry whatsoever to buy because my mom had been waiting for nearly a year to find the perfect deal. 2 dealerships gave us a number that was an absolute joke. 1 dealer however worked us down to a fantastic at 14.4k (slightly used with 8k miles). When we told the dealer we weren�t in a hurry to make a deal and we will pass on anything not at our number he worked hard to make a good first offer and ended up dropping the number 3 more times as we sat in his office and looked unsatisfied. My mom is usually just too friendly in these type of situations so I told her we were just going to be acting and that it was time to �play hardball�, she ended up having fun and being a real hard ass on the guy. That was fun to watch.

What I've learned is go to the top guy if you can and don�t let them have the impression that you want to buy a vehicle right here and now. If they think you are knowledgeable and patiently waiting for the right deal they'll work that much harder for you.

Oh another thing that I have heard but never experienced is to buy vehicles in the last few days of the month when salesmen are trying to meet quota, sometimes they'll cut a deal they normally wouldn�t just to get a sale.

Also I�ve had the best results from car shopping in large metro areas because the level of competition is much greater. For instance in my town there is a Ford dealership and the next closest dealership is over an hour away.

I guess I never touched on your question about lowest price possible. Sorry� <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

Try Microsoft Carpoint.com

You can get MSRP and invoice price for any car with any options.

NoCAL

I have been lucky to deal with James Wood Motors in Decatur, Tex. for 10 vehicles in the last 12 yrs. I call my salesman and tell him what I'm looking for. He goes to his computer and tells me what is available either at his dealership or that is in Texas. He gives me a driveout price reflecting whatever incentives, rebates, and tells me he can sell these for so much either over or under invoice. I have shopped his prices and can't beat them. When I have a service problem, it is fixed with a smile and if something comes up after warranty and I had mentioned it before, it will be taken care of. They always call after your car is serviced to see if you are happy and they really follow up on this. Butch

Dixie, My brother in law makes a good living buying cars and trucks for people. Simply because he knows exactly what you are looking for. What is the best price and how do you get several dealers bidding against each other. He knows about rebates that dealers get that are not publicised, best time of month to buy, etc., etc., etc.. He charges $125 for the service and I understand gets a little more through special dealer incentives, etc.... but all it costs you is 125 bucks. If your not sure what you are doing, he can probably save you some bucks. If your interested let me know and I can get you his number.

PS> This is a "brother-in-law" so don't believe everything the lying dog might tell you. Especially about me. (grin)

Post deleted by 300wby

300, Although it could be taken several ways, I will take your comments in a positive light. My brother in law is good at what he does, because he does it every day. Most of us know how to cut a tree down but I would not want to compete with Stick, who does it every day. Lots of us have some basic skills in working with guns but I would not want to compete with someone like Mikey Coleman, who does it every day. Could I make a knife that cuts? Sure but I would not want to compete with Gene Ingram, who does it every day. If you take someone with an apptitude for something and they practice it every day, they get better than the average person, who only does it occasionally. Joe bought hundreds of cars and trucks for individuals last year. How many have you bought in your lifetime?

Not saying anyone can not get a great deal by themselves, as I know many people do. But I also know many people get convinced they have made a great deal, when there are hundreds of dollars still left on the table.

I, like many think I can do a pretty good job of buying a car or truck, but to do it right it takes me a couple of weekends at least and lots of "negotiating" with salesmen/managers at car dealerships. Joe bought my last truck for me. Did he save me any money over what I could have bought it for myself. Don't know for sure but it would have been within a hundred dollars or so either way. What he did save me is all the grief and time I would have spent buying it myself. As much time as I spend away from home, getting an extra weekend or two free was well worth the money to me. And yes, he did charge me. He is simply that kind of guy. The type you want negotiating for you with car dealers. He would take a half a day to skin a fart, just to get the tallow!

I almost did not put the original post up as I was sure some people would say it was a rip off. But the original poster seemed genuinely confused and looking for options in what is a frustrating experience for many people. This is simply a low cost option for those that do not have the time, temperment or experience to do it themselves. Your milage may vary. TM

i'm currently shopping for a new rig. but i want a flat bed, extended cab, 4x4, v8, auto tranny, tow package, single rear wheel and minimal options. i'm having a heck of a time getting good prices and getting any response from dealers. it's like they don't want to sell a truck! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Larch,

pm sent

davey

Being involved in sales for years, ( Medical Industry) a tactic that I have always used for buying a vehicle at the lower price, all has to do with timing....

Every sales force deals with a sales cycle, EG: end of the month, end of the quarter, end of the year....

If you live in Northern areas, winter times especially Dec and Jan are their worst sales months....

Do your homework on the dealer invoice on the vehicle you want to buy, know what the invoice is, and if there are any factory rebates.....

ALWAYS buy the vehicle on the last day of the month, and be there several hours before they close for the day.... Especially in January or December, they have usually not hit their monthly numbers so they will be STARVED for any last minute business the sales force can get in....( to keep their jobs!) If they are not willing to deal, then they are have hit their quota.... Walk away.....

Even those "HOT" vehicles, will have a big price drop on the last day of the month, especially a few hours before closing.......and especially in the middle of winter.....

ALL of these people have sales quotas! I guarantee it! HIT then when they have had the worst time to try and achieve it.... they get real flexible then! One more sale can mean the salesman's or sales managers job for another 30 days in some high pressure dealerships.....

Also small town dealers love to sell vehicles to Big City Customers, and beat the Big City Dealers out of a deal any day of the week...
Use that to your advantage also!

Cheers
seafire

I juts bought a 2004 Tacoma, Extra Cab yesterday, 2500 miles on it, TRD package, I saved over $4000 by that 1 yr and 2500 mile The truck is essentailly new.

I went to John Elway Toyota in Denver and the price I paid, that they quoted outright, was actually less than I was willing to pay.
Go to Autonation.com and do a search for Toyotas. They give all cities in your area and inventory and price. Then get Consumer's Report that you can order for invoice price.
I found generally that the mark up on the base truck price is 8% and options 20%. The touble with Toyota is figuring out the options.
Go to Toyota.com and find the truck you want, he list of options, and print tem out.

Then go to KellyBlueBook. com and print all the options out.
When you get to a dealer, 1st thing to do is get pricing on all the dealer handling fees.

With all of this you will be armed with all the figures. Take hand calculator along to help.

This thread is why I prefer to buy vehicles that are 1-2 years old. I can walk into a dealer with a list of vehicles and prices from the 'net and say "beat them all".

The last vehicle I bought only had 90,000 miles left on the bumper to bumper warranty, but I hope to put up with it <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />.

seafire,
You are right on the money! I sold cars for a few months when I was between jobs. I answered an ad in the paper promising me huge income. Problem was its hard to sell cars when lots of other people are between jobs too!
Anyhow when you want to buy cheap come to Minnesota in January or Feb. on the last Saturday of the month. There will be a big push to sell something. ANYTHING.
Nobody in their right mind wants to shop when the cars are covered with snow and the wind is howling.
I just bought a new truck last year. I shopped all over and found a last years model with the equipment I wanted. They wanted it off their lot because it was one year old. It was already deeply discounted and I knew it. I probably paid to much but it was exactly what I wanted and that is hard to find. It was a five speed manual with a small V-8 and no options at all. Perfect for a hunting truck with the rubber floor. It doesn't have all the crap that everyone else likes to have but I don't want to pay extra for. Dealers normally do
not even stock these because they make their profit on the options packages. It has four wheel drive and the extended cab and that is about all.
You will never find out their bottom price because even the salesman doesn't know that. That is why they have to take
every offer to a manager. There are factory incentives and things that we will never know about. Just find one you will be happy with and buy it.
GWN

Here's what I did on my last truck purchase:

I toured several lots looking for a truck that was equipped just the way I wanted it. I copied down the options and equipment off the window sticker.

When the inevitable salesman came rushing up, I just said I was looking, no conversation about price.

I then came home, got on the internet, and checked several sources to find the invoice price with the equipment and options exactly on the truck I wanted.

I then printed out the most favorable (all were within a few bucks of each other), and went back to the dealership.

When the salesman came rushing out, I presented him with the printout, and told him I was willing to buy the truck for that price, no extras, no undercoating, no multiple trips to the manager, no BS.

There was, of course, the usual dialogue, at which point I simply asked- are you willing to sell this truck at the price on this sheet, or not? (that price was about $5000 below what was on the window sticker).

Of course, he had to rush in to talk to whomever these guys talk to, and returned 10 minutes later to tell me we had a deal.

I know they still made money on the vehicle, and I don't begrudge anyone that. I just came away knowing that I hadn't had to put up with all the BS and back and forth that I have come to despise.

When the deal was concluded, I asked the salesman why the sticker price was so inflated, when nobody was likely to pay it.
His answer was that some folks think the sticker price is a fair price to pay for the vehicle.

Yeah, right!!