What is the general opinion of the 2017 Dodge Trucks?

Bought a 2017 power wagon in February. Good so far

I have a '14, it's petty much the same. I'll have to eat a lot of crow, but it's been a great truck. I have 99k mikes on it. So far I've had to replace a left wheel bearing at 96k. It was still under warranty so it didn't cost me anything. I have the big horn edition, which has a ton more options than I'm used to, but I like them now!

I've always had fords and one chevy (never again), but the Ram was $7k less.

I have a '16 Power Wagon and it's been good. I did have to do a rear axle bearing but under warranty. This is my first Ram and I'm impressed. Always been a Chevy/GM guy but won't go back.

Dodge Trucks have a negative stigma about them......the reason for the opening question. I would like to know how the bodies hold up compared to their counterparts.

My Dodge is 11 years old with 110k miles and the body is in very good shape except for man made dings in the bed. Granted, we don't get road salt here so rust is minimal.

If exposed to salt they rot out very fast.

FWIW my dad has a 2011 ram 2500 regular cab with the 5.7 L hemi. He hates the way it rides and has had some other minor issues with the truck.

I have had several but none of the newer ones. Mine have held up well and the 4x4 was better than my Jeep. Last one had a lower gear ratio and wouldn't tow as well as a Chevy but could be due to high mileage some 300K. The game wardens here drive them not sure if this was price or performance driven but mine had the same paint job and people doing illegal fishing or hunting would scatter when I drove up.

Funny chit,try again..I live in michigan and they salt the piss out of the roads.Both of my Ram trucks 2016-2004 were and are rust free..

I bought a 2016 Ram 2500 crew cab 4X4 with 6.4 hemi last year.So far 17,000 problem free miles.My last dodge 2004 club cab 4X4 with 5.9 diesel auto tranny was also a great truck.Sold that on with 90,000 miles after 8 years of use.

My 98 is still solid frame wise. Tracking bar, steering problems and brakes torment me

My '08 has something underneath that bangs over really rough roads. I haven't been able to find anything loose but most things are too heavy for me to wiggle. I also get a little gear slap in the rear end when I get on or off the throttle. I don't know if it's a U-joint or if the pinion needs to be adjusted. Both problems are common to all makes, though, not just Dodge.

In chukar country if I see/find a body part it is always off a Dodge.

That's because Dodge and Polaris are the only ones capable of getting to chukkar country.

Not mine. and you won't find more heavy use of salt than MN/WI.

I have a 2012 Laramie 2500 HD with the 5.7 hemi. It is the nicest truck I have ever owned. I did put the Spyntek front hubs on it as I did not want the front spinning full time.

I absolutely love my '12 Power Wagon. That being said, if I hadn't got the lifetime warranty when I bought it from Dave Smith I'd have traded it off long ago. 2 front ends, myriad of small stuff. Just replaced a universal joint on the front axle, and cardan joint on front drive shaft. It's at 100 k now.

I've got a '16 2500 w/ Cummins. I've had it just a touch over 12 months and have 15k on it (almost all highway and pulling trailers). I love it (except for changing the dang oil filter). Very comfortable, pulls our 5th wheel like it's nothing. Engine braking is awesome. Not a single issue so far. I had a trouble free '05 2500 Cummins that I traded on this one.

Each generation of Dodge trucks had their problems unique to that generation. First generation bodies were crap. Second generation with the 12 valve cummins was probably the least troublesome but the automatic transmissions were crap and the five speeds would loose 5th gear. Third generation injection pump would burn out and the blower motor resistor would go out. Fourth generation injectors would go out about 150K mile. All my experience has been with the diesels. Don't have any personal experience with the gas engines. My son has a 2011 with the hemi engine and has had good service with it.
I think all the 4wd trucks have had problems with track bars, front driveline and the electric engagement mechanism. In 2007 they abandoned the 5.9 cummins and went to a slightly larger cummins diesel, 6.5 I think. Dodge went to the def system in 2011 if I rember correctly. There is lots of information online about the problems associated with each generation. The 2017 model has been out long enough to start finding out about it as well. Most of the engine problems associated with the diesels were attempts to comply with EPA requirements for new vehicles.
As complicated and expensive as new vehicles are an extended or lifetime warranty deserves consideration. Not unusual to get over 250K miles from a diesel truck. Lots of gasoline trucks are getting 200K miles.

One thing I've noticed is there are almost never any diesels for sale used on the car lots. Those that are w/ the diesel engine go for really high prices. E

I have a 2016 Ram 3500 CC SB 4X4 6.7...its a tradesman, but with every option you can throw in that trim.. (Auto 4x4, backup camera, uconnect 5.0, ect.) and it is without a doubt the best pickup I have ever owned. I only have 16k miles so not a huge sample size, but with Michelin tires, it rides way better than expected on the freeway, gets great fuel mileage for a big truck, and tows my 8k travel trailer likes its not even back there. Other than 1 oil/fuel filter change and tire rotations - no service needed so far. The other thing I like that is as long as I take care of this truck, when my loan is paid off in 5 years, it should still have a ridiculous resale value - even at 125-150k miles.

Other day I saw the same truck but a 2012 with 121,000 miles listed for 31k.

Now in full disclosure I am a ram fan and in order of trucks I always would go 1. Ram 2. Chevy/GM 3. Toyota 4. Ford.

Hiaring8

What is the definition of, "great fuel mileage for a truck"

If I don't drive crazy, I have gotten up to 22-23 on highway trips and usually around 17-18 in town. For a 1 ton deisel pickup, I would say thats pretty good for me.

After driving Fords and Chevys for years, I bought my first Dodge in 05 (04 model year). Traded it a year later for an 06 only to go from a short box to long box. Still driving the 06 (2500 Bighorn/Cummins) - 125k now and have been very happy with it. If I had to replace it tomorrow, I'd get another Dodge.

Some guys get good ones, and some get bad ones. Same with anything, I reckon.

I just traded off my 2014 3500 4x4.

It had 27k miles on it.

2 transmissions, and this summer, I started having emissions issues the service dept. couldn't or wouldn't fix. In the shop more than out.

Just had had enough. I enjoy my new F350 Superduty.


My wife has a 2015 2500 4x4 diesel. Great truck. No issues. Gets over 22mpg in mixed driving.

If you really want a full sized pickup with a manual transmission, you'll drive a Dodge diesel, either the 2500 or 3500. It's the only full sized pickup available in the US now with a manual. They're 6 speeds starting in '07 along with the 6.7 engine.

If you have a hard time getting going up a hill with a manual, Cummins has solved it. They come with what's called a Zero Throttle Launch (ZTL). You hold down the brake and start to let up on the clutch. As the clutch starts to grab, back off on the brake. Don't touch the throttle. As the engine starts to stall, the computer takes over and gives it just enough throttle to get you moving. It will accelerate enough to get you moving and pull you along until you push the throttle. which ends the ZTL action. It's great when you're pulling a trailer and have to stop on a hill. There's no more of that trying to keep your right heel on the brake while your toe pushes the throttle pedal. With just a little practice, you'll be starting on hills as easy as you do on the flat.

Do they still derate the HP and TQ with the manual transmissions?

2017 6.7 cummins hp/torque specs:

• 350 hp @ 2,800 rpm • 660 lb-ft @ 1,500 rpm (manual trans)
• 370 hp @ 2,800 rpm • 800 lb-ft @ 1,700 rpm (68RFE trans)
• 385 hp @ 2,800 rpm • 900 lb-ft @1,700 rpm (Aisin AS69RC trans, 3500 only)

" Zero Throttle Launch (ZTL)" LMAO, MY 1941 Olds has it. It is called a "Hill Holder".

Nothing now under the sun.

Having three Dodges, i cannot imagine why anyone would chose a manual transmission anymore.

Waiting for a double clutch paddle shifter to appear .... perhaps in the NEW 2018 models (If the Eities don't sell MOPAR to China first !)

It's all computerized these days. With the Cummins version, you don't need the throttle at all. It does it all for you no matter how much weight's in your trailer.

I am not brand loyal at all. I have owned or drawn for regular use from the motor pool, just about every make compact and full size P/U made in the last 10 years. I drive a lot, tow a lot, but not heavy loads and haul stuff frequently. When I entered into the market last February, I looked at all makes. I was looking for a pretty basic truck. I went with a Dodge Tradesman V-6 with a few options. It was 5K cheaper than the competing GM and Ford. Dodge offers a quieter ride and a smoother ride. The 8 speed tranny works great, even when towing 3500 pounds. At this point the only negative is that the fit of interior parts is not well executed in places. I have yet to want for more power and the highway fuel economy is better than my 4 cylinder Tacoma if I keep it close to 70 MPH. From 65 to 70 it drops off significantly and from 70 to 75 it does as well. The truck market is so competitive and so important to manufacturers that they have all upped their game and are cranking out good products.

Larry you crazy old bastard..

I have a 2004 with 164,000 miles. I've had the front end rebuilt,but that's all.

My 01' Cummins only has 100K on it but HARD miles.

Just Put the Luke's Links on all the "tie rod" ends, 5 in total.

- 2 tie rods
- connecting tie rod
- pitman arm
- track bar

Unlike OEM ends, Luke's are adjustable to take up for wear and set pressure on ball in end.

Better steering that it had when new.

Also have "Solid Steel" brand steering box support to avoid it flexing.

All are DYI jobs saving 1000s over have shop do it.

Luke's also fit pre 99 Fords to fix the same issues.

Sure a H--- cannot afford a new truck at $80K !

you live in the burgh so expect that thing to rot off the frame in about 6-7 years. i know from experience. there's a reason why they're the cheapest truck.

Zero throttle launch, my ass. Computer controlled, bullshitt.
With the exception of the 2 cycle Detroits, any inline 6 cylinder
diesel has the ability to pull out without throttle.
It's called a governor.

Dodge tours the ability, because the V8 competition does not have as
much torque off idle and cannot pull as hard without throttle.

Trying to explain that to most is impossible. So, they made up a name for it.

Hill holder is different, it holds the brakes while the left foot releases the clutch,
and the right goes to and applies throttle.

Three dodges here
2005 2500 315k
2011 4500 195k
2017 3500 6k

All with manuals.

Have a 2016 6.7diesel. Has 30k miles on it. No problems, but I can't stand the throttle delay with the diesel. It's damn scary at times, if you need to accelerate and punch it, it just hesitates for a second or two or three. Talked to Dodge engineers and they agreed it existed and said "just have to learn to drive with it." This is the second Ram diesel I've owned, and 6th Ram truck since 1996. My wife is on her second 1500 Hemi and they are super comfortable and fast.

Two old one's only, so no input on the OP's original question. I've found the 99 4x4 Cummins 5 spd to give good trouble free service except for steering and brake maintenance. The 93 only has 77K miles and one throttle position sensor quit. I hate auto transmissions. If I couldn't get a new truck with a manual transmission I'd get a used truck.

Banana belt compare to Upper MI.

Is the Austin tens available with dual rear wheels only?

Aisin trans..

I think both SRW and DRW, but it is only available on the 1-ton.

We run Dodge 3/4 ton gas engines at work. Have 20 or so in our fleet. All 2015-2017. Can't keep them out of the shop. Engines, transmissions, and rear ends. There's at least 3 of them in the shop right now getting new engines. Oilfield trucks, but not overworked. Mostly highway miles, not pulling anything.

Had an 05 2500 Cummins. 5.9 engine. Ran it for over 200K miles, put a water pump, idler and serp belt on it and had the front end rebuilt at 110K miles. Other than those maintenance items, no down time at all. Traded it for a 2011 in 2013, deleted it at 100K miles and just had the front end done. No problems and I really like this truck!

WOW..other way around here with our electric company.We have/had 3/4 ton dodge trucks in our fleet going off road doing electric line work and they were pretty dependable trucks.We were pretty hard on them.

We had 2 of the 5.7 Hemi lose their engines right around 100K. One of them lost the rear end right before the engine went bad. One 6.4 lost its engine at 50K. Mine is a 2016 with 75K on it. Had rear end problems since new. Had 3 of the 2015 lose transmissions around 100K. Just no luck whatsoever. Boss says we will be trying chevy next...

Somehow I'm guessing those fleet vehicles aren't babied, even if it's mostly freeway miles.

My brother is replacing the cam and lifters in his Hemi as we speak. 100k on the motor and not worked hard at all. I don't think he has towed a single trailer with it.

We had a lot of issues with our chevy fleet 3/4 tons with the 6.0 vortec motors.Burned more oil than gas/had to replace a lot of instrument clusters.

Oh great at least I'll know what to look forward to!

GM 6.0's aren't the most powerful in class, but they are supposed to be pretty bulletproof.

I have a 2007 5.9L Cummins with 150k on it. Truck has been great other then transmission. I have that rectified now (Billet upgrades).
Now, with it being 10 years old a few things are starting to fall apart. One of my truck windows I can not control with the master controller, and one of the screws is broken so that kind of hangs.

I've run into that on several cars but so far, not on my Ram. Pop the switch out of the door and see if you can scrape the contacts with a knife or something. If not, try spraying it with WD40 to clean em off. Even though they look clean, the contacts will get a little corrosion on them that prevents the current from getting to the window.

While you're at it, if you pull a trailer, spray the WD40 into the light plug, both male and female. It's a trucker's trick that cleans off the contacts to restore trailer light problems.

I've been to the UP. MN/WI beat them all to hell as far as salt. They now put a salty chemical mix down before it snows and it gets that schit all over the cars.

Riiiiiight! lol

That's like saying "this logging truck has easy miles on it."

But nobody's hard on them right...

I have a '14 that now has 100K miles on it. Nary an issue.

Probably will now that I said that tho.

Kinda like the nice girl that's dancing to pay her way through law school

exactly

Meaning they never pull trailers, they don't have big heavy flat beds on them, and they travel mostly pavement and groomed gravel county roads. They do see quite a few hours of idle time a day. I'm sure that's not great on them. They also get maintained well and on schedule. And a good handful of our guys are retirement age. So they're not really abused as much as you'd think.

And I'm not bashing Dodge either. I own one myself. I've only ran a Dodge as a personal truck since 2001. I've owned 5 of them since then. I'm only talking about the 2016-2017. The older ones we had decent luck with. It's just these newer ones we haven't.

That doesn't sound too bad at all. About like I use my farm pickup. Which is a world of difference from how our feed pickups get used and abused.



Big difference between honest use and flat out abuse.

No sir... I really think the hardest thing we do to them is the idle time.

I have a '15 Ram 2500 Reg Cab 4x4, 6.4 Hemi, 4.10 LSD w/ 8.5' Fisher Xtreme V-plow. Trucks been great so far. Also have a '07 1500 with the 5.7 Hemi. Still runs great.

GM uses the same axles in their trucks as Ram does. They both use AAM front and rear diffs. GM uses a IFS type front. Ram uses a solid front axle. GM uses 10.5" or 11.5" depending on the truck. Since 2014 Ram uses 11.5" in all 2500/3500 SRW trucks and a 11.8" in their DRW high output diesels trucks. GM may do the same with their DRW diesels, not sure.

NYH1.

Oh? Do elaborate.


Have you tried adjusting the idle/WOT voltage on the TPS? PM me & I will show you how if you haven't done so already.

I'd recommend it unless you are fond of being hit by a large automobile.

They sure have some good deals on those Dodge 2017's in these parts which leads me to believe that guys are buying something else. Just this morning the local dealer is advertising 30% off MSRP sticker price on trucks and that is the most that I have ever heard of. Some years back I bought a nice used F-150 5.4 from the local Dodge dealer and they told me that I could buy a new Dodge truck for the same money. I still bought the Ford and never regretted it.

Mine never have.

Mine neither; and thats with salt exposure.

Don't know about the front but GM heavy duty SRW pick ups run the GM Corporate full floating 14 bolt axel. They have since the early 70's

Since I posted this, I had a power door lock quit working. If your window or lock quits, almost always its a broken wire in the wiring bundle between the door and the frame. You can unplug it from the frame at the end. Then pull the rubber back and start checking the wires. The wires are very small and they break easily with the door opening and shutting.

Manual crank windows for the win.
I’m usually the only feller at my rare drive through occurrence that can lean my shoulder on the glass, crack the ice, force crank the glass down and order up.
It’s amusing to see folks in front open their doors to order as their motors won’t break the ice on the glass edges.

I own both ford with the 5.4 triton motor and ram with 6.4 hemi.My choice is ram 6.4 hemi hands down.My 5.4 triton motor is a money pit..

I just got rid of my power wagon with the 6.4 hemi....what a gas pig, was horrible. Traded it off on a new F150 ecoboost and already enjoy the improvements in gas mileage.

I did not buy my truck thinking I would get honda civic gas mileage did you?My 5.4 trition in my ford gets 15 mpg,s and my 6.4 hemi gets 15-16 mpgs.I knew going in the mileage would suck,guess what its a truck.Good luck with your twin turbos in the ford echo boost,have you drilled a weep hole yet?

the milage got to the point that I couldn't go hunting due to the cost of gas...sorry but not worth having it affects things like that. With gas suppose to jump up $0.18/litre here in January with the new tax making next year will be worse. Don't forget you arent paying the prices we are for gas...today its $1.12/litre for regular, not to mention what mid grade which is what the power wagon is suppose to use.

My ecoboost is was getting better than 23 miles to the gallon cruising the hwy the other day....best I ever got in the power wagon was about 17 and that was only on one trip.

Sorry would rather spend my time getting out to hunt than sitting at home due to cost of a truck

Before I purchase any car/truck I make sure what I can afford it according to my budget.Sorry the ram did not work out for you price wise.I paid cash for my 2016 Ram 2500 with 6.4 hemi so gas costs are not a problem..

Im not that lucky I can pay cash for a vehicle unfortunately. This truck better suites my needs anyhow and I will get my hunting time in vs sitting at home looking out the window wish I was

No luck involved here.Got out of bed & busted my ass for 45 plus years and went to work everyday.Not easy but pays dividends in the long haul..

[quote=Dillonbuck]Zero throttle launch, my ass. Computer controlled, bullshitt.
With the exception of the 2 cycle Detroits, any inline 6 cylinder
diesel has the ability to pull out without throttle.
It's called a governor.


No dog in this scuffle but RC is right. My '06 will start in 3rd gear without me touching the throttle, might do it in 4th. Let the clutch out slowly and the engine, computer or whatever, will give enough fuel to move w/o stalling. The space shuttle doesn't launch this hard.

My '90 & a '93 I use for work will stall if you don't give 'em enough fuel starting.

My 90 and 91.5 both start without touching the throttle, even in some pretty frigid weather. Both will idle chained & rolled tree stumps out the ground without touching the throttle as well.

I would check - in this order - air ingress into the fuel system from the tank to the injectors; leaking injector nozzles; a sticking dynamic advance piston; brittle/compromised rubber tips on your Fuel Shutoff Solenoids.

At the very least, screw a mechanical fuel pressure gauge into the bleed port hole in the fuel filter housing and go from there.

I should have clarified, both older trucks will stall as the clutch is engaging if I'm pulling enough weight, just like they should. The '06 is a PITA when you're trying to start off slow with the computer feeding more fuel. Those old 12 valves will start down to -10F without being plugged in.

Some trivia. My 07 dodge 2500 4x4 standard cab 5.9 diesel is getting its first auto transmission rebuild at 57K next month. It wore out from normal use. Not chipped, no lift, stock tire size. First thing to go on it was the front drive shaft. Wore out at about 55k. It gets around 16mpg for normal driving. As the lightest 5.9 body style with the standard cab, mileage is not what a lot of people claim. It eats tires. The steering gear box has an annoying clack in it. When it is working it is great to drive, Great power, great ride, phenomenal brakes, Great 4x4 system. It will tow almost any trailer you would hook it too. Paid $34k for it. at the time it was not a cheap truck. Built in Mexico and the paint looks like it. I have no intention of selling it. But it is an expensive truck to drive. Sometimes it sits waiting for $ to come in, to feed its addictions. It sat out one hunting season, because I did not have $1000 for new tires. It is sitting out in the snow right now, Waiting for a transmission. But it has good tires. A full tank of diesel. It just needs me to feed it the next $3800.

First let me say that I'm no expert on trucks. However, I do know a lot about plow trucks and how they're equipped....but I'm no expert!

With that said, American Axle Manufacture bought Final Drive and Forge Business Unit from GM's Saginaw Division, which made the corporate 10.5" 14 bolt. The AAM 10.5" in the Chevy/GMC's is now the 10.5" 14 bolt. It's been changed/upgraded some. However, some parts are interchangeable. All AAM 10.5", 11.5" and 11.8" axles have full floating axles whether for Dodge or GM.

AAM also makes the Saginaw 9.5" semi-floating axle for the half ton's. I think they put them in trucks with the 6.2L.

NYH1.

^^^^^^
I have a little experience goofing around with 4 wheel drives, and hauling car parts as a truck driver.

The auto business is quite incestuous, so many people run their mouths, "I would never drive a.....".
When everyday, they drive around in a vehicle that has parts built by those they hate. Or, so many of
the parts are outsourced from vendors that supply the whole industry.

Yep! I worked for a major tier one drivetrain component parts manufacture before they moved to Mexico. Was a good 15 year run. We were jointly owned by Chrysler and GM. We made drivetrain parts (mainly four wheel drive parts) for most of the industry. Chrysler, GM, Ford to name a few, all used our products.

NYH1.

After considerable searching, I have failed at finding anything online about how ZTL works. I don't know if it's programmed into the computer, works through the governor, or what. I just know what it does. You keep your foot off the throttle and slowly let out the clutch. Before it stalls, the engine will speed up just enough to get it moving and it will keep pulling until you touch the throttle. It's fantastic for getting a heavy load moving up a hill.

I had a 2003 2500 with the Cummins 5.9 sold it with 230k on it and running great, currently have a 2015 1500 with the v6 and 51000 miles both trucks have been reliable and trouble free.

The common 10.5” is still used on gas GMs, but the duramax and the 8.1 gas got the newer 11.5” aam unit.

Right.

American Axle Manufacture bought Final Drive and Forge Business Unit from GM's Saginaw Division, which made the Corporate 10.5" 14 bolt. The AAM 10.5" in the Chevy/GMC's is now what used to be the "Corporate 10.5" 14 bolt". It's been changed/upgraded some. However, some parts are interchangeable.

A similar version of the AAM 10.5" rear was used in Ram 2500/3500 trucks depending on engine/trans setups. Starting in 2014 IIRC, Ram puts AAM 11.5" rear's in all it's 2500/3500's no matter the engine/trans setup 5.7L, 6.4L gas or 6.7L CTD, in both SRW and DRW trucks. The exception being the CTD HO DRW gets the AAM 11.8" rear.

NYH1.

Considering how little/often you get snow I highly doubt it.

How little we get snow in MN?

Hmmmm.....I know parts of the UP get snow but...Have you ever driven in N WI or N Minnesota? Salt is laid thick and heavy, we can't have people learning how to drive without it, ya know...

Tzone, Hibbing gets 59 inches on average of snow and the town I am from in the UP averages 173. There are many places that average much more in the UP.

I lived in the UP for almost 25 years. Traveled extensively thrrough Northern Wisconsin and Northern MN for work.

Why doesn't someone file a lawsuit to prevent the lake from being polluted with salt? It never goes away. It just gets moved around. The enviro-weenies should jump right on it.

2014 ram .got 92,000.only problem so far the fuel gauge stoped working.better mileage than chey i had,also the 2012 chevy used 1 gt oil every 2000 miles and chevy said that was normal.thats when i traded for a ram.at 8000 miles using mobil 1 dipstick still on full.i would have went broke on that oil drinking chevy.

They already are in certain places.

Looked at the trip computer mileage for the fist time in about 6 months on my 07 diesel. it was showing 16.9mpg. I checked it on fill ups during this 6 months and it was always close to 16.5mpg.

When I figured milage by hand it was always 2mpg less than the computer
.

It sounds like you should have bought a car. If you can't afford to drive your vehicles, you're doing something wrong.

It's not even salt anymore. It's a liquid mix that gets put down days before the snow. It doesn't matter if there is 1" or 173" annually. The schit get poured out constantly. You don't have to believe me. But I know right now, the roads are pure white from the chemicals they pour down. And will be til April.

harv3589 mentioned that he got a more cost efficient Ecoboost due to factors that made it hard for him to justify the more-expensive-to run Power Wagon.

I didn't see the mention of a car anywhere, so lets not pontificate & pass judgement here.

If you can't afford a few dollars in gas to go hunting, you bought the wrong car/truck/motorcycle to start with.

It was costing me $4.72/gallon for gas in my power wagon, that’s just at today’s prices which aren’t bad...was higher during hunting season. I bet ur not paying our gas prices down there. So at best 13-14 miles per gallon it sucked. Costing me anywhere from $70-100 a day in fuel depending on where I was hunting.

Not mention driving to work was killing me so it had to go...things just cost more here in Canada

Ur right I did buy the wrong truck, that’s why I traded it off...

I get that. But when the salt gets laid down daily it effects how fast your vehicle rots out. The liquid stuff is mag chloride and its much more gentle on steel than sodium chloride MI uses.

The city was spraying the liquid stuff yesterday morning but I don't know why. No snow was in the forecast. We got a little rain but the temps didn't get nearly low enough to freeze it.