How can any trans fluid truly be lifetime?

Has anyone here serviced the dipstick-less sealed trans by dropping the fluid in the pan and topping off?


If so, did you replace it with the Toyota WS ATF or go with an aftermarket product?

I would change it at 100k. It is designed for the Toyota fluid, it is drained and filled , the transmission has to be at a certain temperature when being filled. Should be 200-300 at a dealer .

Have changed my Tundra at every 40,000. no fluid can last 100,000 and the tranny go for the long term.

'05 Taco here....166K miles

transmission fluid changed twice.....

NAPA shop did the last time....flush system.....$170 IIRC

This.

Google some pictures of the "lifetime" fluid that was the factory fill for Volvo and other European cars. Trust me, it isn't lifetime and to paint with a broader brush, who defines lifetime and what is their definition of such?

What kind of fluid did the NAPA shop use?

Service Advisor at the dealership recommended I change mine at 60K --2017 Tundra

There are plenty of Tundras running around with 300K on them that have not had meticulous tranny fluid changes

Exactly!

Aisin makes some good transmissions in Toy, Volvo and others.


You guys confirmed my feeling, it may be money wasted, but I'll feel better if I start draining and top-off at 60k (Venza). Each drain and refill is about 30% of the capacity.


Now to decide whether to stick with the Toyota/Aisin WS fluid or go with an aftermarket ....I can't find any factual data that says if factory fill is synthetic or dino.

Lifetime on the WS fluid is good for about 100 -125K from my experience with 2 vehicles. My 2010 4 runner went 145K and then started shuddering when shifting at around 50 MPH. That is the sign it needs to be changed. Drained fluid was pretty dark. Draining the pan will only drain about a third of the fluid so 3 changes will be needed to get about the most of the old fluid you can. Dropping the pan will only get you another quart or so. I have not found an aftermarket replacement for the Toyota WS fluid which runs about 7-8$ per quart. I would just use the Toyota fluid (WS) and not worry about it (check AMZ for both fluid and drain plug gasket). The biggest hassle with changing it is not having a dipstick for checking level and refilling. The fluid must be pumped in using an inexpensive hand transfer pump (not hard, just not as easy as pouring down the dipstick tube). There is an overflow plug on the trans pan to verify proper level (with fluid at proper temp). Measure the amount removed (cold) and refill with the same amount. The drain plug uses a crushable gasket. Be sure to not overtorque the drain plug, it doesn't take much.

Sounds like 1 more step in the process of eliminating the home mechanic.

When the design philosophy of many manufacturers is a 10 year/100k mile life cycle, then yes, it is lifetime fluid.

On the cars that come through my shop, I recommend 60k intervals, or leave it alone entirely and see how far it goes. Your call.

Badger
What's your view on backflushing the trans vs drop and add?

I did a 100% fluid change in mine. I have a front trans cooler. Pull the return line and fill the bucket two quarts at a time. Start engine, drain two quarts. Turn off engine. Put two quarts in. Start engine -repeat.

Lifetime fluid. It last exactly the life of your trans if you never change it. Just a shorter life.

I don't like to back flush them. I prefer to drop the pan, replace the filter, and then run the fluid out of the cooler output line while replenishing to clean out the cooler and T/C. Back flushing can dislodge sediment and push it into valve body components and t/cooler thermostats.

thanks. Confirms the horror stories I’ve heard about the flush.
My ford says 100k. I’m thinking I want to do it now at 70k. 1/4 to 1/3 of the miles are towing, some of it heavy.

As an aside, opinion on the drop and add method? Interval for that?

I would do it now. I do mine every 50k just because I’m anal, but 50-70k if you tow a lot would be a good thing.

I would bet most of those don't see much towing and/or heavy off road use. I had mine changed at 70K and it made a huge difference in how the truck drove and shifted. I do tow a fair amount though, and also make lots of short trips.FWIW

Toyota WS ATF $10/qt
Aisin WS ATF $6/qt

Lots of aftermarket alternatives for $5-$15/qt


I've got a 12 pack of Aisin heading my way. I'll do a drain and refill every 20k.

Yeah my brother had his Silverado's pan dropped, filter replaced and backflushed by a local shop. 100 miles later it was in a transmission shop for a rebuild.

We have 193K+ on our 2012 Tundra. So far, the transmission behaves as it always has.

The bulk of our miles are highway miles, and probably 8-10 percent have been towing a double axle flat bed trailer loaded with whatever. We also do a lot of off-road driving, as there are lots of opportunities within a few miles of our place. My wife is an artist and spends a lot of time in the rough stuff in nearby mountains looking for scenes to paint and/or photograph.

After several conversations with the service manager of our nearest Toyota dealer, I will probably go ahead and have the transmission serviced when the odometer rolls past 200K.

I had Toyota do it at 100K, and sold it at 183K with no issues. It was a 2001 Tundra with 4.7 engine. I miss that truck.

I figured that changing the transmission fluid was just normal maintenance once a vehicle got some miles on it. We changed the fluid on the wife's GMC Acadia and a couple days later I was listening to one of those car service gurus on the radio about changing the atf and he said that if it isn't broken, it doesn't need fixing and to leave it alone. Then a guy or two phoned in and said that their transmission started to slip shortly after they had changed out the fluid and cleaned the screen. It has been 20k more miles on the GMC since the change and no issues so far, but we are pretty easy on our cars. I was kind of surprised when a car fix it guy talked about NOT doing a $ procedure.

Cheaper to change fluid then rebuild a transmission , especially on a front wheel vehicle like an Acadia

From another thread:

Spot-on.

I have almost 200,000 on my 07 Tacoma with the original ATF. I fully expect another 200,000 miles. It isn't miles, it is heat that kills ATF. I don't tow often and when I do it is less than 3000 lbs. For me changing the fluid every 30,000 miles MIGHT get me another year out of the the transmission. But at some point the transmission will go regardless. Unless someone tows or hauls heavy loads on a regular basis it is probably more cost effective to not change it.

I put 300,000 miles on my last Camry and never changed the fluid. It still shifted as well as it ever did when I traded it in.

In the end do whatever makes you feel good about it, I have only had one transmission go out in my life and I have always changed my fluid regularly, I have driven close to 2 million miles, most on slush boxes.

This is it on the newer Toyota trucks. Only other thing is that there is a thermostat that needs to be open to route fluid to the cooler. It is possible to jump this with a short wire to make it stay open during the servicing.

I had my 2011 tacoma replaced at 60k miles by RS offroad here in lakewood. I cant remember if they used Toyota WS or Amsoil. Either way, I felt, and they concurred, that there is no such thing as "lifetime" lubricant. I grew up in a house that took their lubricating fluids seriously; diff, trans, transfer, engine, coolant, etc. So i do it. Makes me feel good to change the trans, not sure if its needed or not.

You do NOT want to service the Toyota sealed transmissions unless you know what you are doing. And draining and haphazardly adding fluid in through the dipstick is a good way to jack up your Toyota transmission.

The Toyota transmissions are engineered to be virtually maintenance and repair free. And they pretty much are.

But if you are DYING to replace that fluid, this is the process for Gen4 and above Toyota AT's:

1) Make sure truck is level. Use the Toyota branded fluid. Drain, and replace with slightly more ATF fluid than you took out, through the dipstick (there is no fill plug)
2) Make SURE to use the required Toyota procedure. This consists of putting the truck in a "AT Temperature Check" mode. To do this, you use a piece of wire (or wires) to jump certain pins in your ODB2 port.
3) Then, there is a shift pattern you cycle through to put the truck into the diagnostic mode. With the engine running, you wait for the appropriate dash lights to signal that the ATF fluid is at the precise temperature.
4) While that light is on, you open the overflow valve, and let the ATF fluid drain until it stops dripping. Now the fluid is at the EXACT level.
5) Do not drain the excess while the light is off. If the light comes on and turns off because the fluid got TOO warm before you drained it all, STOP, let the truck cool, and repeat steps 2 thru 4.

You may want to Google or call Toyota for the specifics on the ODB2 jumps and shift pattern - I just don't remember. I know the above, because my buddy is a master Toyota tech, and I helped him change the ATF fluid on his 2008 Tundra @ 300,000 miles (for the first time). He was so unfamiliar with the process (because he almost never does it at the dealership shop) that he brought the printed out Toyota specs on the process.

https://www.tacomaworld.com/threads/diy-full-flush-for-automatic-transmission.68462/

This is what I followed to do mine.

My 07 Tacoma is knocking on the 200,000 door. I did the "drain when cold and replace with same amount" method at 100,000 miles and I plan to do that again when I roll 200,000 miles. If I didn't plan to keep this vehicle for ever, I probably wouldn't even bother changing any fluids, well maybe the engine oil.

Why cold?

Toyota dealer near me absolutely does not like to do the transfusion, and they tried to talk me out of a drain and refill saying Toyota does not recommend it and that it lasts a life time But I insisted!

I have 276k miles on a 08 Land Cruiser... bought it new and still running the same ATF fluid in it...

Find another dealer and I am saying that nicely. Service writer at my dealer who I know very very well told me to drop the ATF on my TUndra at 60K. He volunteered that I didn't ask him. I will do the front and rear diffs and the xfer case at the same time.

DOn't change it now

Good move Ed.

yep.

Family friends of my wife... bought a used 2011 and 2012 Tacoma's with the 4.0 V 6.

Both trucks were at 100K,. and never had any real maintenance done on them except oil changes.

So I did the full bumper to bumper fluid changes, tune up etc.

Got to the trans....pulled the cooler line, like I learned from some old time hotrodders...

let the engine warm up to operating temp.. turned it off, pulled the cooler line..with it in park..

pumped out 4 qts before it started to spit, and immediately turned it off..

Walmart's Dextron 6 transfluid is also spec'ed for Toyota T1-IV, plus the WS specs...
gallon jug poured a qt at a time.... very slowly thru a small funnel, attached to the line...
$21.00 where the dealer wanted $350.00 for the same thing.

Valvoline max life also meets the same specs...

both trucks are in the 180K range now.. so I am sure the owners will be calling me again for the
same treatment when they hit 200K, tune up, fluid changes etc...

neither truck had a dipstick tube from the factory.... fluid is cheaper than a trans...

use the same fluid in my Pilot as it meets Honda DW1 standards...every 25K....

I just finished with the 1st drain and fill on the Mothership. 2013 Venza 3.5. 53k miles.

Easy pleasy.

1.8 quarts of brown fluid came out, put in 1.81 quarts of new pink Aisin WS in.


I'll do the same at the next couple oil changes until I see some clean fluid, then extend it to 20 or 30k intervals.


Wasted resources? maybe.


Makes me feel better.

I have 97 Tacoma with 305,000 miles and have never changed the trans fluid. I bought it in 1999 with 40k on it and dogged it ever since. No issues with trans yet.

Don't bother changing it at this point.

Mike, you must be one relaxed guy, I wouldn't sleep at night!

Have 135,000 mi. or so on an AWD ‘05 Matrix, ATF has never been changed....

This guy has almost 1.3 million miles on his 4 cyl, 2008 Tacoma.

https://www.torquenews.com/6626/man-behind-one-million-mile-tacoma

He changes the oil once per month, usually at 8,000,10,000 miles. He changed the AT fluid for the 1st time at almost 500,000 miles, but has done it about every 40,000 since. He changed the plugs at 700,000 miles. He had a head gasket go bad at 800,000 miles. The rest of the engine looked fine, but the mechanic wouldn't just change the gasket so they found a 100,000 mile engine in a scrap yard and put it in. That engine now has 600,000 miles on it.

You won't find all that info in the above link, but there are other sources out there. He answered some questions for guys over at the Tacoma World forum recently.