Just wondering what your experience is with BT's on elk? Looking for info on 30-06 and the 168 or maybe 180.
Aren't some of them a little tougher than others

The 180s will work well for you. They have gone through a few changes since their introduction, heavier jacket, more controlled expansion etc. Basically its hard to tell the difference between them and the Accubond, performance wise.

I've seen the 180 used several times, with excellent results, in loads I put together in both 308 and 30-06 for guys I've hunted with. Exits on quartering and broadside shots. Haven't personally seen a recovered one, but I recall one getting lost in the guts. Busted bones and very wide wound channels. I think they are an impressive elk bullet. If they shoot well in your rifle, I can't imagine a need for another bullet for both deer and elk.

I've not had any experience with the 168's on critters.

Thanks for the replies. I figured the 180's would probably work well.

Anybody use the 168?

My brother used the 168 out of his .30-06 (my handloads) to kill a 330-class bull a few years ago. Killed him right now.




P

My youngest son shot a cow elk with 168 BT (my handload) with his 308. DRT

the ABs should fly just like the AB's of similar weight, at a very marginal cost premium.

My buddy uses 180 AB's with good luck. no experience on BT's on elk.

If the ballistic tips didn't open so wide there would be no need for Partitions! The newest Ballistic Tips that I have used most are the 180 gr. .308 and the 150 grain .284 versions. I consider them excellent bullets plenty tough for elk. That said I don't go around ruining good elk meat by blasting shoulders either.

A good friend shot a cow elk that was standing looking at him at 200 yards in the middle of the chest with a 180 Ballistic Tip from a .300 Weatherby. Found the expanded bullet under the hide of a hindquarter.

Thats some serious penetration.

It's a failure if they don't exit right?

I loaded them at 3k for my buds 300win mag. 180 grain. Never an issue on elk. From under 100 to 400

You like heavy for caliber Ballistic Tips but not heavy for caliber Berger VLDs? Ok...

I'd run a few tests....

To whom are you referring to?

I have killed quite a few elk with them out of my .300.. Friends have killed a bunch using 7mm Mags..

Nobody in particular. But if you like Nosler BTs and not Bergers there's an experience or bias issue based on my experiences from deer through elk...

And Bergers have a higher BC and on average for me are more accurate.....

Buddy of mine who lives in Billings, has a son who is now a Montana State Trooper...

but when he was just a 12 year old kid with his first rifle, a 30/06 that dad wanted him to grow into.

he used some ammo I had loaded up for his to use deer hunting, and he ended up taking it elk hunting..

165 grain Ballistic Tip, exiting the muzzle at about 2250s fps...

he shot a running 650 pound 11 yr old cow elk at 175 yds...

bullet went thru the lungs and the liver, and was bulged on the off side just underneath the hide...

cow ran about 50 yds his dad said and piled up.. dead....

was taken just outside of Yellowstone there around Gardner....

his son is 28 now, so that would have been about 16 years ago, so 2004 or so..

the load was 30 grains of 4198 & the 165 gr Ballistic Tip...

Yesterday, I opened a shipping box containing an 8 pound jug of powder that I have had for a while. Along with the Jug of powder was 7 boxes of Nosler Ballistic tips that I had forgotten about. 5-50 count, 7mm and 2-250 count boxes of .22 caliber. I have killed several deer, and some hogs with the 7mm-120 ballistic tips, with mostly pass throughs. Only thing with the .22's are some crows. miles

I've shot BT's and Grand Slams on elk and could not tell the difference... they both worked fine.

I've shot elk with Hornady Interlocks, Speer Hot Core's, Barnes TSX & TTSX's, Nosler Partitions, Ballistic Tips, and Accubonds. My current load is a 165 Sierra Game King... they all work.

Elk are no harder to kill than anything else if you hit them correctly.

If I were trying to decide between a 180 NBT and 168 NBT, and they shot equally well, I'd go with the 168 because it recoils less.

I can only comment on a 180g BT from a 300 WBY hitting the front of a small moose. It broke the sternum and reached the heart where it appeared to have totally come apart. There wasn't any noticeable damage beyond that. This of course caused almost instant death to the moose. My friend who shot the moose gave up on them for anything larger than deer after that wanting better penetration. This was in 95 and I don't know if this was an original or if it was a toughened version.

The BT and the Berger VLD are not even close to the same. The BT is a traditional controlled expansion bullet with an extremely thick jacket. The Berger VLD is a delayed expansion bullet with a very thin jacket that basically turns into a grenade after the first few inches if penetration(at traditional impact ranges). Both clearly work.
Some guys say that BT's blow up like varmint bullets. They are full of crap. In fact certain BT's like the 168 and 180 30 caliber bullets have the thickest jackets of any traditional cup and core bullets.

Brad

You have shot more elk than I ever will, what is the performance of the 165 SGK like on elk. I have only used them in the 270 Win with 130s to mediocre results and only on deer and antelope. They are so darn accurate though. I have some 180s loaded for my 30-06 to try, but have been leery about hunting anything bigger than deer with them. When you say "...hit them correctly." do you mean always broadside? A friend used the 180 SGK from a 300 Winchester on an elk at ~350 yards and IIRC had to shoot it 4 times, all broadside. All shots were in the chest area and only 1 exited. I wasn't there so am just going by his account.

Yup...across the board.

30 cal 165 ballistic tip, 30-06, CCI 250 and 60 gr of H4831. This load has accounted for a bunch of deer in my rifle, and my Dad's old 760. Perfect performance every damned time.

But I only shot one elk with the load circa 1995. It was a two year old cow. Two shots, about five inches apart about four inches behind the elbow of her front leg. The damned animal never even flinched. She turned and started casually walking away and disappeared over a hill.

I was devastated. I absolutely knew it was impossible that I had missed. Not from dead steady prone, at a bit less than 200 yds. But that was certainly the impression.

Until I got to the elk's position on the hill, and saw the terrain painted with blood. She was dead about forty yards over the hill. One bullet had fragmented on a near side rib bone and left a hole I could shove my fist through. Bone and bullet fragments had lacerated the heart, liver, and lungs.

The only disappointment was the elk's lack of reaction to the shot.

So I switched to a 7 STW pushing a 162 gr Hornady spbt at 3200 fps mv. About 300 fps faster than the old '06.

The elks I hit with that load, definitely told me they had been hit. Though I do not think I ever got a pass through with that bullet either.

I understand (per Mule Deer) that the 165 gr ballistic tip is tougher today, than it was in '95. I will take his word for it. I have not loaded one since that time.

Yes, that is the difference between elk and deer. Elk do not just fall over at the shot. They may very well be dead at the first shot. But it is easy to put three or four more bullets into them before they figure it out.

Mortally wounded elk can travel a damned long way and even be lost. My motto is keep shooting until four hooves point to the sky.

I've killed elk with a Interlock's, Hot Cors, Sierra GK, Accubonds, and Partitions also, last year was number 25. Mostly looking for a bullet to stretch my distance a little farther. Hence the BT, especially the 168 caught my eye. I hunt public land in logging country, so there is a ton of access. With all of the clearcuts, shots keep getting longer and longer. A lot of times there is no getting closer.

I have read where Nosler fixed the problem with the ballistic tip bullet' but, for my money they are out. their partition has a great reputation as do Hornady interlocks and Speer Hot Cores. I would not risk the ballistic tip on big game.

Between the 168gr and the 180gr I'd choose the heavier bullet every time in the 30-06. The bullet I use for elk from my 30-06 is the 180gr Hornady Interlock.It's two for two, to shots two elk! I'm sure the 180gr partition would do the same thing with good hit's.

Yeah, those 12 grains will make a whopping difference...

In terms of penetration and toughness, I’d take the 168 NBT over the 180 HDY based on my experience.

Always enjoy these threads.

It has been more than a few years since Nosler turned any of the Ballistic Tips from the 165-grain .30 up into the "heavy jacket" model--which not only penetrate about as deeply as AccuBonds but Partitions of the same weight and diameter,

One of the constant "problems" of bullet manufacturers is trying to make bullets that please everybody. Which is why companies introduced "deer" bullets over the years (as in Hornady SST, Nosler Ballistic Tip, Swift Scirocco, etc. etc.) have often had to beef them up, even though the original version worked well on deer. Apparently a great many hunters believe 1/2" groups at 100 yards are necessary for killing elk at typical ranges.

I must be in the minority...I like "fragile" bullets for elk, as I keep on saying on these threads. Quite a few exits with the "fragile" bullets I end up using on elk. As Geedubya says, "Quien sabe?"

Yes, they only fixed them 25 years ago give or take.. they are a much better and tougher bullet than either a Hotcore or a Interloc so I am not sure what you would be risking

Forum member Shrapnel killed a very nice Shiras moose last week using a 180gr BT out of a 300 weatherby. Worked great.

Especially when you recover the evidence from a dead elk.

I've never understood this logic. Just because a bullet kills doesn't mean it worked as it was designed to. A ballistic tip (or whatever) that blows up on a rib but sends bone or copper shards through the lungs can still kill even if it took quite the tracking job to recover, so the bullet didn't fail, right? That's just an example...please don't translate that into me saying ballistic tips do act like that. This is the 'Fire though, so I have to add that disclaimer.

That logic also doesn't take into account a lot of critters getting finished off by a head shot, then digging the first bullet out and saying that since you have a dead critter, the bullet didn't fail. Folks on the 'Fire sometimes don't make that correlation (this whole post isn't directed at anyone in particular).

^^^^^^^. Just remember there are a few democrats and Never Trumpers on here! 🤣

Truth!

I agree with you T Inman, but that requires that a hunter know how his chosen bullet is designed to perform. That's asking alot of many around here anyway. I can honestly say that since I've been around here I believe I have almost "heard it all".

I have no doubt you're correct about that. No doubt.
The next time I see a box of bullets with a label that just says "designed to kill", I'll withdraw my statement, assuming they actually do kill.

Until then, with bullets being designed for things like:


I'll keep my opinion as is.

Hey T Inman,
I am just about 100% sure the comment "It's a failure if they don't exit right?" was meant as a joke.
Stem to Stern penetration on an elk is obviously excellent! I'm pretty sure PaulBarnard gets that and just left out the little emoji winky thing...

Cheers,
Rex


P.S., We mustn't forget, when talking about failed bullets recovered from critters, the question that goes begging is of course "At what point in the animal's death did the bullet fail?"

Using a proven 7mm max load 150 grain BT I hit a nice bull a few inches behind the front shoulder center of body at 247 yards. After almost 600 yards of tracking in the snow found the bull with a palm sized entry wound shrapnel in his lungs bled him out. After that I switched to Barnes TTSX and wouldn’t think of changing back.

What year may I ask?

Dave

You're absolutely correct that the bullet exit statement was a joke, but that was not what I was responding to. I actually prefer bullets to not exit, for a few reasons.

My response was to the dead animal equals properly functioning bullet (paraphrased) statement, which I guess may or may not have been a joke. There are plenty of instances on these forums where folks absolutely were not joking about similar statements though, which prompted me to respond as I did.

Shot a young bull moose this fall with a 180 BT out of a 300 Wby. About 50 yards, bang flop.

The 165 Nosler Ballistic Tip at 2940 fps via H4350 is my normal 30-06 load.

Had a great season, couple of years back. Used that combo to take elk, mule deer, antelope & black bear. The mule deer required finishing shot - I'd taken a frontal shot into the chest at about 140 yards. Dropped the buck instantly, but he wasn't quite dead when I got up to him. Other than that all the other animals were one shot, quick kills.

The 340 yard shot at the large cow elk penetrated one shoulder blade, trashed the lungs, broke the other shoulder blade. Never found the bullet. I'd guess it was lost during field dressing.

I realize I'm talking 165's, not 168's, but I suspect they'll do similarly on game. That 165 gr Nosler Ballistic Tip has proven itself as one heck of a good all-around bullet from the 30-06, at least to me.

Regards, Guy