Where the private land boundaries are? Yesterday we sat on a ridge watching at least 300 cows on a private land hillside with no access. About sundown, they lined out and started moving toward some hay fields below, all on private land, of course. Even if we could have got permission, there was no way to approach them other than belly crawling a half mile in a gillie suit.

It all comes down to the lead cow. She got her job by being the meanest, raunchiest old bitch in the herd. At the same time, she's also about the smartest one in the herd. She decides when and where to move or bed down. At some time in past years, she learned that if she takes the herd to a particular spot, they won't be bothered by hunters. Since private land often fills that bill, that's where she will return to, year after year. When she dies and is replaced by a younger cow, that cow will have learned the same things. They can't read regulations or no hunting signs. They just know where they've been undisturbed in years past.

I don't know about other states, but in Idaho the F&G is required to pay restitution to ranchers who have losses to these large herds of elk. At the same time, those who get restituted are often the ones who post their land. Hunters are often the most effective method of keeping elk off of those lands but they're the ones who are shut out. In my opinion, land owners who want restitution should be required to allow hunting. There is a problem with herds that move some distance to night time feeding grounds on private land. Sometimes they bed on public land during the day and only move onto ranch land to feed at night. The F&G has used their own people to shoot some of them to push the elk out. Of course hunters scream that we should get 1st shot at that but state law prevents hunting at night except for F&G sharpshooters. It would take an act by the legislature to allow night time hunting and that's not likely to happen.

Same thing happens in CO, North of Gunnison. Right after archery season it starts by 1st rifle you can see 400-800 elk on the Calstleton ranch where hunting is not permitted. It is owned by a rich New Yorker and they run a few cows there. It makes that set on the TV show Yellowstone look like bunch of shacks. The same holds true with several big ranches along that valley.

There are ranchers in Colorado that CPW gives vouchers to.You can't hunt on them but they sell those vouchers for big bucks and then we the hunters pay for the funds they give them for crop damage.

Then you have the Ranching for Wildlife program. In return for a ranch giving 1-2 elk tags to the general public, CPW gives them a hunting season from September thru January.

CPW caters to the agricultural business in Colorado under the pretense that the majority of winter elk range is on private property

Same somewhat in SD. Gfp flies and does aerial surveys for deer and antelope numbers then decide to let so many tags. Problem is those numbers are on both private and public . You draw for tags and when they have tons of leftover antlerless tags they keep selling until they are gone. But their is only so many animals on public land and access and after opening weekend what wasn't shot have moved off to private where no hunting is allowed or unless you wave around enough money to get access. So much more of the private is no longer available because some outfitter leased it up. Then the dumbasses at the gfp wonder why people don't take their kids hunting anymore. The legislature commercialized the hunting so business gets revenue, the public gets damn little and the last governor liked to wax eloquently about experience fall traditions of hearing the rooster cackling as it rises in the fall colors. Not about shooting any. My take only watched this diminishing situation for the last 53 years. Mb

I am not sure how it is now, but I am pretty sure it is the same way it has been for awhile in MT. If a landowner doesn't allow hunting they get nothing from the state for damage done by wild animals. At least huntable ones. Now that doesn't mean the landowner can't lie and get something. There is a beautiful high fence around a ranch hay yard near where I live that was put up with hunters dollars. The ranchers around say this rancher didn't let people hunt at the time. My uncle who ranched next to them said they won't even let you shoot gophers since they are food for the coyotes. I have since learned from my cousin who has the ranch now that this ranch does allow limited hunting currently.

I swear, the senior cows in the herd hold elk school in the summer, and pass on their knowledge to the younguns! It took me a few tries when I was learning their behavior to never get tunnel vision and always BOLO for the cows, they will bust you every time!

My brother SWEARS elk can read the regulations........

I worked on a pedestrian vs ATV elk disturbance study 20 years ago out of Buford, CO (White River NF including areas adjacent to the Flat Top Wilderness). The cows fitted with telemetry were used on a previous study for elk migration/movement, with particular emphasis on the fall. The researcher of that previous study said you could watch the elk begin to move with archery/muzzleloading season. By the 3rd rifle season about 60-70% of the elk were on private land or in the hellholes along the Colorado River breaks, split fairly evenly between the two.

We see the most of the elk out on the generally more open agricultural land, we don't see the elk in the elk jungles.

Idaho is a very poor place to hunt.

Many thanks to IDFG.

Yall don't feel too bad. I guess every state has
their bad points when it comes to hunting.
Here, it's antlermania. There are now so many
people that have moved here and want a big
set of antlers to post on their farcebook account
that the poor man that wants a bit of venison
doesn't have a chance in hades.
Of course, all fish and game departments have
the same notion that if you can't see it from a
truck window or a plane or chopper, it's non
existant.
Might have to start possum hunting. I'll have
to start collecting recipes

As you alluded to. It’s just a response to the pressure from humans. I also think they are able to factor in photoperiod in that as well. They know as the days get shorter, people will start to show up and they will inevitably take refuge in areas where they’ve historically been undisturbed.