A buddy I know has developed a load with the 210 Berger at 2950 fps that shoots lights out in his 300. Honestly my experience with Berger has not been all that great although they did the job. I never use them on elk so I can't give him any input. Does anybody here have any experience with them on big animals. This is the bullet he's using

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1076528197

I've got lots of experiences with Bergers on Elk, from 6.5 140 gr up to .338 300 grain. The 6.5/150, 7mm/180, and .30/215 are my favorites. Never had a "failure", all bulls dead and accounted for, most of them went down almost immediately.

With the aforementioned bullets??? I'm asking because the ones that he loaded up are 210 Target bullets not the vld hunting

Fotis

The target version works very well. IMO it seems to hold together a bit better especially the core/shank. Your buddy should have no problem destroying vitals on an elk.

I would take Berger word that these are great for paper target and larger varmints...

No way I would use this on an Elk.. These are NOT hunting bullets.. We live in a world where we have tons of bullets to choose from. Why would anyone use a frangible bullet on an Elk?? Honestly, it doesn't seen ethical to me.

How many elk have you personally killed with a Berger bullet?

Bergers are utter crap for elk. They are frangible target bullets, not hunting bullets. Now you know You can write hunting on the box, but it changes nothing. The bullet he chose they didn't even bother to write hunting on the box.

A-Frames, Trophy Bonded (any version - TA, ELD, Tipped, or regular) or Northforks are tops. Barnes X family, Weldcores or Partitions if you can't get those. Choose a bullet with a SD of 0.3 if possible, at least 0.27 if you can't get the heavies. If it's a monmetal you can go lighter.

How many elk have you personally killed with a Berger bullet?

Just last year I took a bull and was the spotter for my 2 buddies on their bulls. 1 bull was DRT, the other made it 10 ft and the last one stumbled a whole 10 yards spraying a blood trail Stevie Wonder could’ve followed.
I have great confidence in the Berger bullets and the trauma/tissue damage they cause but to each their own.

Fotis- If your buddy kills an elk and you are present I’d be interested in your thoughts on how well it worked.

i sold my 300 sendero to a buddy who guides, they use the 300 and the ammo i loaded. 210 berger. he loves it and the ammo. the 210 berger penetrate between 30 and 33% on elk. they shoot great groups out to 1000 yards. my son inlaw and my son each shot 15 shot groups you could cover with a sheet of notebook paper at 1000. ( i am using 168 accubond in 7mm this year on bull elk... i have shot a rocky mountain bighorn, and another buddy shot a record book mule deer with my 7mm and 168 berger )

Guaranteed 75+ years old and has never shot an elk with a Berger bullet let alone that one...

Fotis - next year I expect to draw an elk tag that'll likely be my best elk tag I'll ever draw. Its a unit known for 400+" bulls. I'll be hunting with a .284" 168 VLD...

Wrong, and you did a nice job of proving you're a moron. I'm 40 and live in elk country and get to see the carcasses of all the uncrecovered elk at the end of November. The ones that aren't too eaten to tell, almost all of them have an entrance hole in the chest (usually not even a horrible shot), and no exit. They just ran a mile on one lung. That's caused by frangible bullets, insufficient SD, and cup and core bullets. And of course word gets out among outfitters and what not around here that Bergers are a primary cause of hunt failure, used by morons like you who don't know what an appropriate elk bullet is.

I’ve never shot an elk but I think we as hunters place to much emphasis on “lights out groups.” I hear people all the time say choose whichever one is most accurate in your gun. Honestly when we’re talking about what probably amounts to .5 MOA or less difference for a FIVE shot group shooting off of a rest. From a practical field shooting standpoint that slight accuracy improvement doesn’t mean a thing other than being fun to have the tiniest bench load possible. With all of the proven terminal performance hunting bullets, Swift A-Frames, Barnes TTSX, and so on to me something along those lines with a rock solid rep for smashing through bone would make more sense than a fraction of an inch tighter five shot group.

I suppose wind drift could be a factor if he’s someone that hunts at well over typical hunting ranges that most people hunt at but assuming he’s shooting at elk within 500 or even 600 yards I don’t see much of an advantage there and can’t see any practical advantage due to to a slight accuracy edge.

Correct. Even at 4-500 yards, a 1.5MOA rifle is capable of guaranteeing you a it in the vitals from most angles. There is an advantage to reduced wind drift and thus reduced sensitivity to wind call error though. For a single shot in the mountain valleys, it's extremely difficult to get an accurate wind call because the shot passes so far above the ground and there's no wind flags up there. There are rules of thumb, but they are frequently wrong.

The first most important thing when choosing a projectile for elk is that it will reliably expand or starts out very wide and gives sufficient penetration depth to at least reach the back lung, but it's very good to get an exit. Repurposed match bullets guarantee neither.

I have been shooting the Berger 210gr VLD since they were introduced in my 300 WinMag, back then they did not make a Hunting and a Target. I'm guessing they are the same as today's Hunting bullet.
This bullet is the most accurate non-custom bullet I have ever shot, I used this combo for years shooting rockchucks well past 1000yds. As for big game I would have to say I had more limited success, used it on several long range deer with great success. When I was a guides assistant about 10 years ago the client used this rifle to shoot a Desert Bighorn in southern Nevada. The only shot we could get on this Ram was just over 700yds, she was not comfortable with her rifle so I dialed my gun in for her. One shot done, but the exit was softball size. not ideal for a full body mount trophy.
The one debacle I had with this bullet was on an antelope hunt a few years ago, I had snuck up to 150yds on a nice buck pulled the trigger and watched the bullet blow up on impact, I don't think it penetrated an inch !!!!!!!!
it blood shocked every ounce of meat.
To me the longer the range the better this bullet works, at close range I think there are better choices.
I love this bullet but would NEVER use it on an Elk hunt

They are frangible target bullets. This is what they do - blow up unpredictably. Why people don't understand this basic fact is beyond me.

I've guided somewhere in the neighborhood of 80 bull elk hunts, not including my own personal hunts. I shoot Berger target hybrids in my main Elk rifle, a 28 Nosler. Take that for whatever you feel it's worth.

Says the guy who’s never personally shot Berger bullets on game animals.
I’m also curious how you know an animal was shot with a Berger because it doesn’t have an exit hole while examining a carcass in the field?
Could it have been an inexperienced hunter shooting a cup and core bullet way beyond its capable range? Could it have been a deflection and thus not a pass through?

Everyone has the right to pick what they want to hunt with. Why people don’t understand this basic fact is beyond me.

I would definitely be more picky with my shots using a Berger or a GameKing , then with a mono or bonded. Not that I would go looking for hard quartering shots and pass up nice broadside shots. . I like using a bullet I can have the confidence to get the job done. If the OP’s Buddy is confident that the Berger bullet will work he can fill his boots .

While not a 210, my nephew and I both just shot Bulls with my 30-28 Nosler with 215 Berger and both dropped like they were hit with Thors hammer between the eyes.

With a 180gr in 7mm or a 212gr in .308 Berger, would you take a frontal chest shot OR a quartering away, last rib shot to hit the offset shoulder on a bull?

I have only shot elk with NABs, NPTs, Swift Scirs, and Barenss TTSXs. I would with those but have always wondered if I should with Bergers.

I have a 7mm RM that absolutely loves 180gr Hybrids and I have only used them on deer but the initial question has always made me question it, so what say you, Berger guys? For a classic broadside shot, no problem, but with a tough angle, would you under typical situations, all things considered?

210 Berger by the way

I wouldn’t hesitate to take a quartering away shot with a Berger bullet. A frontal chest shot I normally pass on so probably wouldn’t with any bullet.

son and i have shot plenty elk mostly bulls with a bow and arrow a see no reason why Berger bullets of any type would not work. i personally like Berger bullets too they do seem to shoot accurately with most loads as do Nosler partitions.

Perfect performance for me with one deer and one elk. Fast killers. 180 grain 7mm VLD Hunter at 2950 FPS. I’d use them again. Ranges 100 - 650 yards.

On the whitetail, I purposely waited until he was at a cedar tree and shot him through the neck into the tree. Bullet exited and went way into the cedar. 110 yds

I've guided, hunting, shot, literally 100+ head of game with Berger. 7mm and bigger they are outstanding. I've killed elk with 140 VLD from my 6.5-284 but now use 143 ELD-X. I've used or seen used 210s and 200s on bears, deer and elk. Excellent killers. Most 7mm were the 180s. Amazing bullet. Nothing wrong with 210s for many years this was the biggest bullet Berger made.
When hunting in timber I'll throw in a tough, hard bullet for a close shot. Berger in reserve for the long shots.

Seen 210’s bidness via 300 rum, antelope, elk and deer. Wasn’t impressed, neither was Tyler. Antelope never even flinched, walked a fair amount, tipped over. Deer/elk same way… from what some dummy’s say, I guess you gotta drill out the tips??? 😂😂

I’ll take something that “works”… 👍😎

Yeah, if they won’t open at RUM speeds, something isn’t right.

Greg is an outfitter, and a great one at that.

Buddy is deer hunting right now. Has a new rifle in 300PRC. Very accurate
Uses 210 VLDs. Shoot a few this week. Told me that bullet is " nasty". No problem with expansion at 600 yards

Oh, the carnage! I am 70 years old and never tried to shoot deer or elk with target boolits. Maybe they work just fine, but the last 3 bulls I killed, including the one last week, were one-shot drops with 168 gr TTSX and the ones before that fell to Trophy Bonded Bear Claws.

Not disputing any of the Berger claims on here, just my opinion that there are better big game boolits out there. I just keep on using what works well for me and never lose sleep over lost critters.

Happy Trails

I've never had a bang- flop with a Barnes bullet. Seems to take them a while to bleed. Lots of bang- flops with Berger. That said, they have their place.

The second part is obviously false, or he would recommend quality bullets to his clients.

Bergers have an exceptionally high failure rate on large game. And they offer nothing in compensation for that failure - their BCs are really no better than say the Terminal Ascent line. But the TAs have the best terminal performance in the business.

Bergers blow up - that's what they do. If you get lucky, they blow up in such a way the animal goes down fast. If you get unlucky, they blow up in such a way you never see the animal again.

Is your hunting plan to depend on luck?

I’ve seen a whole pile of bang-flops with Barnes, but as usual, shot placement matters.

Hey Jordan,

Did I already ask the 175 VLD in a 308 for elk question? I have a gazillion 155 SCENARS, but this load is almost one hole in both of my 308 Tikkas.

And I figure, once you develop the dope and commit to dialing, there isn't much difference. It's all about groups at distance and terminal performance.

last year 2020 i killed a huge whitetail buck and a normal nice buck also found both bucks easy using Berger bullets , these Berger bullets did blow up but went thru both northern Minnesota bucks. 2021 opener weekend my son shot another Minnesota huge buck " dressed 225 lbs. " but bullet blew up on the back of the front shoulder blade facing my son bullet fragments did kill the buck quickly ,no blood trail because bullet parts did not exit ,buck fell over about 75 yards away in thick tamarack swamp ,took us awhile to find him. we use 257 Weatherby mags. 115 gr. Berger VLD hunting bullets all 3 of these bucks the last buck was shot around 100 yards away. I do kinda wonder about Berger bullet some now , never had a problem with exit with Nosler partitions with my 257 Weatherby mags. with bullet exit and blood trails in the past on deer , i always used Nosler partitions for elk so i don`t have any experience shooting elk with a Berger bullet . > would i elk hunt with Berger bullets if i go elk hunting again nope not me going back to old reliable Nosler partition for deer and even elk, but that`s just me . good luck to all no matter what bullet you use or like ,Pete53

Me.............. I wouldn't! I'd agree with pete53.

Will they kill? Sure. All rifles will. Getting shot would never be confused with a blessing. A few elephants have died after being shot with 22 LRs. I guess that is proof the little 22 is OK for elephant, in the minds of those that did it.

But for the prescribed use, the Burger is on the bottom of my list of bullets I'd CHOOSE to hunt with. Just because they kill doesn't mean they do it better than other bullets.

Any good bonded bullet or partition would be far above any Burger on my list of bullets to choose from. In fact many cup and core bullets I have used did a lot better too. Plane white box Winchester Power points for one.

That’s my take also. Obviously the vast majority of the time any bullet stuck in the rib cage will work but Burger made its name making pinpoint accurate high BC precision long range bullets. I’d personally rather use a bullet that made its name as hunting/terminal performance bullet such as a Partition or TTSX.

Use whatever you want, I could care less.

Keep using the wrong bullet at wrong impact velocities and keep bitching about it, I could care less.

I don't think so, but you're absolutely right. Precision, wind drift, and terminal performance are what matter. There is a slight difference in MPBR between the two loads before you need to start dialing, but not enough to matter to me.

Latest Berger victim, a 168 VLD from a .280 Ackley a few days ago, with exit showing. Definitely a blow-up...

They do if they cut the wind better and shoot more precisely, and subsequently hit the right spot, while the other bullet does not. Of course that's not often the deciding factor between success and failure, but when it matters, it matters.

…. nevermind, went off on a tangent.

i have another thought for my 257 Weatherby mag. i am going to try some Hammer 115 gr. 25 caliber bullets , should get some better ballistics too ? And at the same time get a good exit hole on a bigger animal too ? i did just order some Hammer bullets and the price is very reasonable and Hammer had what i needed in stock too. i went with 103 gr. 25 caliber because our rifles are 1-10 twist.

I’ve never shot a Berger at an animal. I did use the older Nosler Ballistic Tip 150’s in my 7mm RM to kill a few elk & then hit a decent 5x6 broadside at 250 & had the bullet blow up on the ribs with a palm sized entry wound. Luckily lots of snow & the shrapnel in his lung killed him after 600 yards. Without snow no sure thing recovery.

Using that Berger bullet, you must have had a "lucky" one, that didn`t blow up. I`ve had a few lucky ones myself.

That must be it...

Nice, congrats.

Berger bullets shot out of a smaller slower cartridge might work just fine or used only at longer ranges ,maybe 300 yards and longer distances ? but out of my rifles at under 200 yards i no longer will use Berger bullets on Minnesota whitetail bucks but may use them out west on mule deer bucks ?

All you Berger naysayers I hope dont buy them so maybe the 6.5 140's and 30 cal 215's will become available again
someday.

The problem is they don't. There is no particular advantage to the Berger bullets in terms of BC vs. the Terminal Ascent. The Berger has the worst terminal performance in the business, worse even than the SMK (which is really pushing the bottom of the barrel). The TA has the best.

It's an EASY decision.

Yep BERGER!!

Hopefully the 210’s behave much better than the ones I witnessed. Guess you could be a dummy and drill the tips out. 😂

I know the 6.5 140’s are the shizzle outta 6.5/06 ai

I've only used Bergers, Scenars and round lead balls the last 12 or so years. There's been no survivors.

Pards buck from this mornin, 6.5/284, 300 ish yards, behind the on shoulder, through the off shoulder right on through. 140 vld.

Nice! Bergers just kill Jud.

I've killed way too many animals with them to say they " blow up".
They have such a sharp meplat that they typically penetrate well into vitals before "blowing up".
I've never seen one blow up on the surface. I have seen it with Amax, Sierra match kings and a few others.

If you're hunting timber with Bergers you're using the wrong bullet. Better bullets for saving meat. If you want to swat one down, the Bergers are very reliable at this.

Like I've said, I've killed/ seen killed way too many head to think otherwise.

Boom!!! THIS^^^

Same here, Dennis.

I shot a 5x5 bull yesterday just under 400 yards with a Berger 215g hybrid target MV 2800 fps from my 300 wsm. Hit him in the base of the neck just barely in front of the leg. He was on his feet about 5 seconds and then fell down. He was still alive when I got to him so I put another mid neck. I didn't really do much of an autopsy but it worked. I've shot 3 or 4 bucks, two bulls, and an antelope with that combo and this is the first time I needed a finishing shot.

Bb

Have suggested this before in various places, but tend to believe that one reason some people have problems with penetration when using Berger VLDs is pushing them to high muzzle velocities--apparently because "long-range bullet" still equates to muzzle velocities well over 3000 fps with many hunters.

Have never used Berger Hunting VLDs stated at over 3000 fps, and have also never seen one disintegrate on impact. Yet they have expanded very well at ranges out to 600 yards.

Years ago, in fact, I tried to "blow up" a Berger VLD on bone, as I recall a 168 VLD started at around 2850-2900 fps from a .30-06. The "test" animal was a feral billy goat in New Zealand, weighing around 200 pounds. I'd already killed it with a lung shot behind the shoulders, but put one through the big joint of the shoulder at 10 feet. The bullet worked the ways Berger Hunting VLDs normally do at such velocities , not expanding until it passed through the bone and entered the chest.

But have heard from other hunters who somehow decided that starting Hunting VLDs at well over 3000 fps would work well at shorter range. One of these was a guy who was shooting Texas feral pigs under the typical corn-feeder at around 100 yards, using the 140-grain VLD from a .264 Winchester Magnum at well over 3000 fps. He reported bullet blow-ups with shoulder shots. Well, gee!

Mule Deer your 100 % right ,i read about how well Berger bullets always worked and no one much ever said anything about velocity and after 2 years whitetail hunting with 25 caliber 115 Berger VLD hunting bullets out of son`s and my rifle both are Ruger #1`s 257 Weatherby mags. shooting around 3500 - 3600 FPS. we have had spectacular kills on some bucks but one buck " dressed 225 lbs." this fall 2021 ran about 75 yards in a thick Tamarac swamp with no blood trail ,was a 100 yard shot ,hit back of shoulder blade blew up and the bullet pieces did destroy buck`s lungs and all blood stayed inside bucks cavity and did not reach into other side rib cage so no blood trail - none. these bullets are very accurate and like you have stated in lower speed cartridges these Berger bullets probably do work well. but for our 257 Weatherby mag cartridges and other higher speed cartridges you are very right. i never had any problems with Nosler partitions or Swift A-Frames on any buck in the past with these brand bullets ,another bullet i just received in the mail is Hammer bullets 25 caliber 103 gr. because most of my 257 Weatherby mag rifles are 1-10 twist is why i need these lighter grain bullets. will i use these Berger bullets again only in my families 257 Robert rifles from now on .

I’m a accubond guy but Berber’s have a great reputation and are great bullets. Have you looked at the 210 ablr

We’ve killed a bunch with the 168s out of a 7rum and all failed the stress test as well as a bunch of bucks. I’ve got several buddies that shoot 300s and the 210 and they pound them. I just got started with the 180s three shots for two buck and a cow. You won’t be disappointed with the 210s.

an amax would have put down that buck quicker nice one

I dont believe the 3,000fps thing with Bergers, my nephew and I just killed 2 bulls this year with 215's at 3100fps in my 30-28 and I've killed a bunch of bucks and bulls with the 140 Berger starting at 3220fps in my 6.5x300wsm and all performed like they were suppose too.
A 210 or 215 out of an 8 twist isn't gonna act like a 210 or 215 out of a 10 twist either.

at what distances did these Berger bullets work so well ,that`s the biggest factor.

The 140 was 100-890 and 800 on 2 bucks were the farthest 100 the shortest. Bull 75 yards closet and 590 and 600 farthest.
The 215's were 330 and 355 this year

Good Advise.

Dennis,
My buds and I have had many bang-flops with Barnes TTSX’s in various fast stepping cartridges. Granted, not all were bang-flops but dang near it. I can’t speak to other bullets mentioned since most of my experience has been limited to Speer Grand Slams, Trophy Bonded Bear Claws, and TTSX’s over the past 34 years. I tend to stick with what works for me and I try to refrain from slinging poo at other folks choices that I have never used personally or in my hunt groups. One of our buds has had tremendous success with Norma Oryx bullets in several calibers, up I haven’t used them. Happy Trails

Yes I agree also.

Its a shame that people aren't more educated than they are.

If they tipped over I'd bet they opened and worked... Never mind that there is plenty in print that they go in a bit before opening.

DRT. Its due to shot placement. Not bullet construction.

in fact walk a ways and fall over, thats about perfect for my tastes.

If you want that DRT you need to put any bullet where it needs to be. Exactly. Sheep and Goats are a prime example. And if you are relying on shock then I'd say you probably should not be hunting them.

Its simply amazing to me that anyone thats been around hunting or loading a bit couldn't take an educated guess that somewhat more frangible bullets and high speed shouldn't mix. I mean its just that easy. Almost like slow rounds and long distances barnes might not be the best choice. Though 2300 worked again on a TTSX the other evening. Just fine.

I'm not just sure where common sense went to. Though at times even I have a lack of it, generally speaking have had no issues.

And the simplicity of knowing that if you are at or over 3000 fps MV maybe you should think a bit harder about choice.

I have not shot Elk with the 210 Berger's but have taken a couple of Whitetail and mule deer.

Dennis,

Sort of wondering why you don't like Bergers in the timber.

Like you I have never seen one blow up or fail to penetrate in hundreds of critters from very close to 4 digits on the range finder.

To the guys who don't have experience the termial performance of the Berger is the main feature, accuracy and high BC are just the icing on the cake.

That said don't buy any so they can catch up with the demand.

Thanks.

Dollar to a dime the nay-sayers have never even loaded a Berger bullet. I've seen the 6.5mm 140 grain (started at 3200 fps from a 264 WM) do some things that most people wouldn't believe, including a 25 yard quartering to shot on a big Bull Elk, one and done. he piled up about 10 yards away. Oh well, more for us to buy!

always nice to see that people just believe what they read.

I've used the target bullets since the 90s on game and have never had a single issue at all. As noted they hold together a bit better than the hunting versions.

It won't perform any worse than a hunting cup and core lead tip or plastic tip of your choice.

Rock on as they say.

i will say this i never ever have had any problems with Nosler Partitions or Swift A-frames and both of these bullets shot well on paper too. but as a rifle loony its sure fun to try other brands and types of bullets. so next fall 2022 i myself will be trying these Hammer bullets on deer and antelope , but if i do draw a tag and go black bear hunting i will still use old faithful Nosler Partition !

Dig. Ding Ding, winner winner chicken dinner

Jeff,

The heavier target jacket came out about 2007 + or -.

Every Berger VLD prior to 2000 was the thinner jacket that became the hunting bullet.

I don't thing it matter much as the target jacket kill the crap out of critter but facts be facts.

Just Sayin.

I realize this started with a debate on the 210's, but other calibers/bullet weights are being discussed. This is from another thread that I posted a couple of ears ago.
I will start this with a few observations. All bullets are designed with a use in mind. There is no one size fits all in bullets. I have no problems with other bullets. I have taken Barnes TTSX's and Nosler accubonds to Africa. Both have served me well. This last trip I took Bergers. I usually get extremely good accuracy and good results with them. Bergers are often used in longer range hunting and are designed to expand reliably at lower velocities. If you plan to use them I will strongly suggest that you heed the next observations:
1) Use heavy for caliber bullets. I used 180 grainers in my 7mm SAUM. If you use a faster bigger .28 caliber cartridges then use their 195 grainers. In .30 caliber use the 215 grain hybrid. Easy to load and deadly effective on game. In a .26 caliber use the 140's or 156's. Apply the same to other calibers.
2) Always check the points. Bergers are a hollow point design. Occasionally the point will be "clogged or closed". That bullet, if not opened, will act like a solid and pencil through an animal. A small drill bit should be used to make sure they are all open. If closed then use that one for practice or drill it open.
3) Do not expect reliable expansion at over 3000 fps. You are more likely to get over expansion at higher velocities along with poor penetration. My SAUM runs the 180's at 2900 fps. That is about right. My .30 Nosler runs the 215's at 2990. Works well too. I would not run them at 3200 fps and expect reliable close range expansion. Some have had good penetration doing so, but I wouldn't try it.
On to the point of this post. 16 animals of assorted sizes were taken with my SAUM and the 180 gr bullet's. They are as follows:
1) Cape eland cow at 469 yards. Hit slightly further back than wanted. Down and dead quickly.
2)Cape eland bull at 511 yds. Heart shot. Dead in less than 20 yds. Pretty impressive.
3)Springbock at 175-200 yds. Broadside shot slightly back and high. Down in its tracks.
4)Duiker spotlighted at maybe 40 yds quartering to me. High shoulder down in his tracks.
5)Vaal Rhebuck at 313 yds. Hit way back top of back. Spine hit. Down in his tracks.
6) Klipspringer at 269 yds. A little far back and high. Down and done in place.
7)Blesbuck cow at 130 yds? Back a little and a little high. Down immediately with no fuss.
8) Bull Livingston eland. Huge animal. 75 yds. First hit was high shoulder. Staggered him. Went perhaps 75 yds and He appeared to be staggering and turning to lie down when I hit him again up high mid body which put him down. Much bigger body than either of my cape buffalo.
9)Hartebeest cow at 200 yds. Quartering slightly to me. Hit mid way up behind the shoulder. Went 40-50 yds.
10)2nd Hartebeest cow. Broadside at 80-90 yds. Hit behind shoulder. Went 30 yds or so.
11)Hartebeest bull at 150-170 yds quartering to me. Low shoulder into the heart. Went maybe 60 yds.
12) Bushbuck at 200 yds or a little more. Hit a little high behind the shoulder. Went perhaps 30 yds.
Mikes animals as follows in Zambia:
1)Waterbuck at 150 yds broadside. Hit behind shoulder. Went about 70 yds.
2)Puku at 80-90 yds perhaps. Quartering hard away. Hit in front of hind quarter lining up on far shoulder. Went about 40 yds.
3)Bushbuck at 120 yds. Broadside. Behind shoulder. Went 25 yds.
4)Lechwe at 230 yds. Behind shoulder half way up. Down in its tracks. Kicked twice.
I will add the following NA animals for additional consideration:
A) 6.5-06 w/ 140 grain bullet. Bighorn ram at 100 yds. Broadside. Hit back too far. Got liver. Went perhaps 100 yds.
B) 180 in the SAUM. Antelope at 130 yds. A little high behind shoulder. Down in his tracks.
C)180 in SAUM Whitetail doe. 75 yds facing me. Down in her tracks.
D) 180 in SAUM WT buck. 300 yds. 1 shot in leg and one mid body. Went perhaps 30 yds.
E) 215 gr in .30 Nosler. Bull moose at just over 100 yds. Quartering to me. In front of shoulder. Went less than 20 yds.
F) 6.5 SS w/ 156 gr. Whitetail buck at 20 yds. Quartering away. High behind shoulder. Down in his tracks.
G) 6.5 w/ 156 gr Pronghorn buck. Broadside. Hit slightly low behind shoulder. Went 25 yds.
H) 6.5 w/ 156 gr. Pronghorn doe at 325 yds. Behind shoulder a touch high. Down in her tracks.
Notice that I needed more than 1 shot on a wt buck that I screwed up on and the Livingston eland that likely didn't need it.
Bruce

Awesome report Bruce.

How do you like the Bergers vs the TTSX and Accubonds yiu used in the past?

Berger user here. Love the 140gr Hunting VLD in my 6.5-284 and .260 Rem. Mostly deer and one elk. Never an issue getting the animals down and usually in spectacular fashion.

In my .300 Win I currently use the 230gr Berger OTM with great success on elk, but had good luck with the 210gr for the short time I used it. Would use the 215gr also, just have better accuracy with the 230gr, and it is a hammer.

I think each of those bullets has a place at the table so to speak. I'm running Berger's right now in my 3 main hunting rifles. I like the accuracy. I always clean/check the tips and run them at speeds that seem to help them shine. I'll tell you the honest truth. I have wanted to extend the range that I'm comfortable shooting at. For the longer ranges the Berger's really shine. Unfortunately I have not tuned my loads and done enough shooting to really make that happen. That means I could just as well use the AB's or TTSX's
For virtually every animal on that hunt report you could of used a AB or TTSX. With the current shortage of reloading components I have excellent supplies of Bergers. They keep on working well for me. Just last week was able to get 3 more boxes of 6.5 mm 156 grainers.
The list above is incomplete. Got a Covid special hunt and went to Tanzania. Never could of afforded it otherwise. Killed 7 animals. 180 gr Berger VLD in my 7 SAUM. 6 were 1 shot kills with none of the animals going more than 50 yds. The one exception was my fault on a Thompson's Gazelle. I made a bad first shot because I rushed it....
Headed back to Africa this May. Found some great day rates at less than $200/day with good trophy fees. I'll either take my 7 SAUM or maybe my 6.5 SS. 180 gr Bergers or 156 gr Bergers. I guess you could say I believe in them as long as I do my part.
Bruce

Thanks Bruce. That’s good intel. Thank you.

GilleteHunter

"2) Always check the points. Bergers are a hollow point design. Occasionally the point will be "clogged or closed". That bullet, if not opened, will act like a solid and pencil through an animal. A small drill bit should be used to make sure they are all open. If closed then use that one for practice or drill it open.


That has NOT been my experience with Berger VLDs, and have been using them since 2007.

The reason Berger VLDs usually have "delayed expansion" is because the points ARE closed. Instead of starting to open up immediately on impact, the expansion is delayed for a couple of inches, unlike most conventional expanding bullets, which start to open up immediately on impact. This is because the relatively thin jacket has an "air pocket" behind the point, and as a result the point collapses later than conventional soft-point (or plastic-tipped) bullets. With Bergers, expansion starts when the bullets are through the ribs, and inside the chest cavity. Which is why they kill very well, even if they come apart.

Have NEVER seen them "act like a solid and pencil through an animal," at ranges out to 600 yards.

Might also add that all the reports of Bergers "blowing up on impact" have been when they've been used at short ranges, when started at well over 3000 fps. This apparently because many hunters still believe that any "long range" bullet MUST be started at well over 3000 fps.

I run the 140 Berger VLD hunters at 3220 in my 6.5x300wsm, 3 years ago I shot a Bull at 75 yards and it did exactly what all the other Bergers ive shot deer and Elk with stopped in his tracks and destroyed the vitals

Am not surprised! The 140 6.5 Hunting VLD is a great bullet. However, would guess you put it behind the shoulder in the ribs.

On their website Berger used to recommend that the Hunting VLDs not be started at over 3100 fps, which worked fine. Have used them at 3200 fps with no problems But the the guys who've had problems are putting them in shoulders at close range.

I've repeatedly had issues with the 140 6.5mm VLD blowing up and not penetrating bone at a started velocity of 2880 FPS and distances from "close range" to about 500 yards. Maybe a bit further but I am not recalling right now. Elk shoulders have normally been involved though. I can't deny that.

Even when not, berger's killing effectiveness has been grossly exaggerated, IME. They have normally worked fine when put behind the shoulder, but no better or quicker than regular C&Cs.

That's just my experience and I am sure the usual suspects will tell me I am full of it, have too small a sample or whatever other excuse they can come up with to argue that they're experience means more than mine. Carry on.

Isn't that were any bullet should go, behind the shoulder?

I'drew a bull tag here in AZ.
m looking to buy some 6.5 Elite Hunters.
If you want sell, pm me. Thanks.

So the jist of this is they dont perform at close range, better at longer range. Why not just shoot the good old standard soft point and just get closer? Not make the I have a magnum or 6.5 crapmoor so i should long range turkey shoot. Come on!!!! What did you do before?

Blah!!!

There are different performances for each bullet at different ranges. Hard stop.

A Berger hunting VLD is different for each caliber and velocity range. A newer 7mm Hunting VLD is the only Berger bullet that I have used that didn't perform as advertised. It peciled through the ribs at 350 yards , which resulted in a slow deaths (luckily she stood in her tracks and fell over ~3 minutes after she was hit). so she was easy to find.

I've killed many elk (15 or so) with 7mm 168 VLDs and 180 Hybrids and all were perfect kills.

I will admit that 180 Hybrid targets are soft so they work best when velocities are below 2,500fps or less. They work great at long range.

I have used those 6.5/140gr quite a bit with a muzzle velocity of 3,000 fps in a 6.5x65R RWS (sort of 6.5-06) on two cull hunts in RSA and Namibia where I shot a number of Hartebeest, Blue and Black Wildebeest,Oryx, and a few Zebra.

All of them penetrated well even after hitting the humerous bone. Most of them blew up well inside the innards producing a devastating effect, while some penetrated like you would expect from a 140gr NBT, for example. A high percentage of the latter exhibited dramatic changes of trajectory inside the animal.

I have observed different behaviours in different VLDs, though, not all of them doing the same. My very favourite, performance wise, is the 105gr I load in my 6XC, and the worst by far, was the 120gr I loaded in a 25-06 that would pencil through about 50% of the time, with 7x57/140gr, .270/140gr, 6.5/130gr/135gr standing somewhere in the middle.

These fellas shoot long range; they also take a lot of game with Berger Bullets.

They work fine. Make sure the tip are clear and open to the lead, but do not increase the hole size.