I'm wrong evidently, I was sure that herding a bunch of cows home the day before season was not only on purpose and bad timing but bad for the hunt. I could still be right but other evidence shows VERY similar results for others this year for some reason.

I'm curious now, I've seen mentinoed elk staying lower with less pressure, I'm not good at all to figure out how to hunt or tell BLM land vs USFS. But often wondered if we were not driving by a few pockets of lowland all year long sagebrush type elk....

How about full moon? It didnt' seem to affect 2 years ago, we at least heard them bugle all night long which at least told us that the fresh tracks we saw were not lying.. Was it different this time.

How about drought, our area was supposed to be dry, except for snow melt. Seemed like plenty to graze on in areas, and plenty of swamp type areas around, but maybe not the right graze??

Archery pressure sure could be it too, but is it that bad all over the state?

I've done the foot in mouth issue, but still wanting to learn more in my arsenal for next time. I hate blind hunting an area, but may have to make that part of the arsenal, look each year at the good area last time, and if in 2 days no luck, move on to try something else. The big question here... how far and what to do? Move 20 miles and try same elevation/terrain, or around the back side of same area? I"m partial to hunting the wilderness on foot, but cant' go very far in due to the packing it out situation and not much help, IE only 3-5 miles max probably. But generally that does away with the day hunting folks.

Any more thoughts or questions to the thread are very welcome.

Thanks, Jeff

I always have trouble planning hunts around the lunar phases, however I seem to have less success with a full moon on Sept elk. Not impossible, just seems to make it more difficult.

And I think some areas get hit really hard by bowhunters who oftentimes seem to overcall. My best success has come from getting as far in as I physically can and going as high as I possibly can. As the years go by, it doesn't get easier.

I also tend to shy away from large camp setups as they are more difficult to move in search of elk. Try to minimize camp setups and stay as mobile as possible. I often refer to it as guerilla tactics.

Make a family vacation out of a summer time elk scouting trip and have 2 to 3 spots mapped out for Sept. For muzzleloading season, they will typically still be close to summer haunts.

Good luck

Full moon and warm weather it's time to go to the thick timber near water and still hunt.

Ain't gonna be no scouting trips, but its a good idea, my idea of scouting is 2-3 days before season IF I'm lucky.

But I'm agreeing on mobile camp. Maybe forge up some kind of cover for the lowboy for cooking/temp camp with a tarp and then when finding game, set up the tent.

Lunar phases affect elk,but not as much when they are pressured. If a lot of pressure,they will go notcurnal even if picth black.

Yes archry presure is very bad statewide and not just pockets

3-5 miles means nothing to an elk. They can cover that in about an hour or less if moving fast.

There was no drought in the higher country.All mountians in CO recived more than 100% snow pack last year. The low lands and praries got hit bad. There is lots of forage in the mounatin valleys.
Elk are getting wiser and hunters are not adapting to new mthods and new areas. Everyone would be better off if they left thier bugles home and used cow cows a lot less

We managed to see quite a few elk every day, or at least get into them in the timber. I like hunting timberline this time of the year, or with in 1000 vertical of it. The full moon didn't help, but I think the clear mornings and cloudless days had more to do with it than the moon.

I was talking to a buddy about this about a month ago, I dug through all my records and found that 75% of the deer and about 80% of the elk I have killed have been with in a week of a full moon.

The elk were bedding in the black timber on the north side of ridges, just had to be in the right place to intercept them in the mornings and eveings.

Bugle to locate, move in close and cow call for the finisher.

IMO, I think a lot of people are 'too' mobile and tend to either jump elk and run them out, or walk/drive right by them. Spend some time scouting and glassing you'll find the elk.

This little guy couldn't resist my cow call. The pack out was the worst part.

++++++++++++1

Bottom line is it's still hunting not "shooting"....they are not fenced in and coming to feeders, they are free ranging animals that move, travel, lay low ect....may variables effect them such as all that has been state...pressure, weather, over hunting ,declining heard #'s amongst many more possibilities.Heck I'd like to harvest game every time out,but that would take most of the luster off when I do connect...again it's hunting

Jeff, one thing we've consistantly noticed about ourselves (as a group) when doing post-mortems of our elk hunts is that it's very easy to stick with an area you KNOW, and have seen/killed elk in, even if the elk are not there. We typically have a 5-day season, and it can evaporate mighty quickly if you spend a few days convincing yourself that your favorite spot SUCKS this year <g>. You need to make quick decisions. If the elk are not there, they aren't there. Sure, they could show up but it's better to go find them, I think.

So the last couple seasons we've been very concious of being more mobile, more willing to up stumps and MOVE around more. I can't say we've been slaughtering them (I certainly have not), but that strategy has put an elk on the meat pole the last two seasons for us, from places we never would have considered before the elk moved out of our favorite spots a few years ago.

I can't help you with the phase of the moon stuff. I think it's much more specific and local than that. If an intense storm is coming, critters will be up and about feeding a bunch before it hits. If it's hot, you have to get into the dark damp north slopes and risk busting them out of the area. If it snows, you try to cut a fresh track. Etc. I don't think the phase of the moon trumps any of that stuff.

Elk hunting is excruciating. I love it, but it does drive me nuts. One guy in our camp is about done with it I think. He had some good chances years ago to get his first elk, and blew them, and of late has gotten... lazy... the last few years and is therefore seeing SQUAT which makes him lazier which means he doesn't see squat, etc. That's a bad loop to get into.

-jeff

Ok, I'll share the ol' Indian secret.

The mountains in Colorado are full of tunnels below ground where the elk hide from August to December. The elk access these tunnels by way of concealed holes that can be found under logs, at the base of trees or most anywhere - just look for the holes and when you find one just sit by it until something you like comes out - then BANG! I know a good hole in the bottom of a creek bed where the bigger bulls go to party. Just change what you're looking for and success will follow....

"and that's all I'll say 'bout that...."

ok, one more secret.

Jeff has it right or very close. Mobility. I have 56 different "areas" that I know consistently hold elk. I start at my most favorite ridge and begin hunting, if I don't find them there, I go to the next place and so on and so on. I have yet to get past 5 or 6 of these "areas" and not find elk. Although I have been to to more than 20 of these "areas" before I worked a good shot or made a kill.

This is the best advice I can give someone. Don't hunt where they are not!

Oh dang it! The war drums are sounding now...gotta go!

Being willing to move I think is tantamount to success... if there is no fresh sign where you are hunting, time to find another spot and quick.

But as dvdgeorge said, it's still hunting, not killing. In the units I hunt, success averages around 8-12% with the OTC archery tags... think about that- 9 out of 10 go home empty handed!!! Or CDOW collects $5500 in tag fees for every elk killed!

Interesting, I consider myself to be a bit better than average, though I"ve yet to tag a cow, I've found bulls every time I've gone hunting, just at this point I don't want any old bull and frankly am scared to buy a bull tag as I'll never see another elk in my life.

I"m not at all complaining about shooting, and I take a bit of offense at the feeder statement, just cause I'm from TX.... but I do hunt around them at times, when I just want some meat(not hunting but killing)

Anyway I am thinking also, mobile must be more important. I've never(that I'm aware) blown elk out but I"m sure I have, every one I"ve seen is just bedded or standing in thick timber and are fine unless you make a move thats quick or towards them.

Point being I think too, that mobile might be the best... I mean if they aren't there, they aren't, and that was what an older mentor told me in the early 80s, you gotta move hard and "fast" till you find them, then stop and come to a crawl to hunt them.

I don't bugle, I did in the 80s, but its been so overused, I do carry a cow call and sometimes use it, most times not. But it would be nice to at least be able to hear the bugles so you knew what to do, but the elk are not dumb it gives them away. Lately I've been fortunate to hear the mews and such of the cows very early in the mornings before light while moving around searching. But this time we didn't even hear that...

Of course, I prefer to at least see game, whether we get it or not, thats not a big deal, but not seeing game gets really old and depressing.

More input always welcome. BTW I should add that I"m mostly a meat hunter is why I buy cow tags, don't want to kill a young possible good bull for someone else while its not big enough to go on the wall... and I love to get out in the mountains... I"m not a beach person.

I kinda figure there are folks out there that kill a cow almost every year, thats the skill I"d like to figure out.

Jeff

For some reason I wanted to avoid this topic and thread, but I just cannot let it go and not add my own little 2 cents.

I've spent the last 19 years chasing elk here in CO and I got to say that I think you finally had a year that I almost consider normal. Most years we see elk although some years we didn't see any. It happens. And it happens more often than some may think. I know some great hunters, and there seems to be many on this board that I respect a lot. But even many of them come home empty handed every so often. Many touched on it, the elk are either there or they are not. Mobility is key. That is probably one reason we have shyed away from doing any type of back country hunts where someone packs us in. We don't own horses so it would be a big gamble to be dropped off somewhere and the elk be elsewhere. We camp in the middle of an area we want to hunt. That way if this drainage is empty we can get somewhere else easy enough. Hike in the mornings and evenings. With that being said, I'm an average elk hunter by CDOW standards. 20-25% success rate for the state all methods of take and seasons. I've shot 3 elk in 19 years. Wasn't because of lack of effort or knowledge, but sometimes the elk could not be found or when found, there was no way to get to them. We also share the woods with many hunters during the OTC 3rd season. If a guy wanted to get a cow every year I'd start looking at the NW part of the state. They are practically begging guys to hunt cows there. Plus, if a guy was so inclined, most late season cow hunts can be had for $900 fully guided..... I've thought about it a time or two just to put some meat in the freezer. However, I must say, that i think I thrive on the frustration that is elk hunting on public land in easy access areas. When you score, its that much more of a great feeling knowing how you beat the odds.

Just wanted to add my little opinion here.

Jeff,

I honestly believe that you see so many bulls just because you have a cow tag. Get a bull tag and I would almost bet you see nothing but cows I know its happened to me numerous times. Good luck on planning for the future hunts. I don't think your doing much wrong, just had a bad year this year. Next year could be opposite. Just plan for the worst and keep mobile.

Jeff, Those elk you see and don't seem spooked will move out if they move across your scent in hunting season. Everything related to man/hunter will send them skedaddling. I have watched herds of elk leave just from hearing someone putting up a camp and pounding in tent stakes, chopping wod, etc.

The biggest mistake, especially foot hunters in drop camps, is that they go into the timber to scout 1-2 days before opening day.Hell they, blow any elk in there out. Duh! We saw elk in there yesterday.

Not bragging here,but I am one of those who has shot an elk every year and have done so for 15-20 years.One year,two years ago,I had two broken ribs and had to past on that one year though.Id say about 2/3 of those elk were cows.Last year, I shot one at about 5yds. After the season, I went in and had my MRI and mylogram done. My back was only held together by two ligaments. The doc said I wasn't too far away from a wheel chair. That elk came hard as I was in a bad way every morning just getting up and into the saddle. Guess what I am saying is the "want to" has to be there.

I do it by knowing the area I hunt, and not giving up. Most of the elk have been shot 4-5 days into the season. If it is a good area, and there are no elk there, many times they will move in when pushed in from other areas from other hunters. Other times hunters with less experience and hunting knowledge will move into your area and blow the elk out by pressuring them too much or putting thier camp in prime habitat.( My biggest complaint).

Hunters say they are mobile but on foot. I contend those hunters hunt themselves out in 3-4 days and then don't hunt as good as when they are fresh. I ride to where I hunt and then cover very little ground,usually shooting an elk within 200 yds of where I left my mules.Many times, where possible, I'll ride the timber in a goosd snow and I am able to ride up to the elk, step off and shoot ( Killing, not very much hunting,but I am putting meat in my freezer)

Once you learn all the secrets, finding and killing elk get s easier. However,if you wnat wall hangers,they come hard 99% of the time

Most people make hard statements like you made about bugling and then live by them. Don't make hard rules about hunting and close your mind and limit yourself. Every stalk or hunt or day is different. Sometimes I've done crazy impossible things that worked and other times everything was done right and nothing happened. What may have been bad one day may be the killer the next. People get frustrated and start to place limits on themselves and the next thing you know you're not learning anymore, the game always seems to be gone and the fun is gone too.

Adapt, Improvise and Overcome is the Marine crede and it certainly applies to elk hunting. Those are three powerful words.

A few years I didn't connect with an elk, but every year I've hunted and I had fun and I have always had an experience that told me to keep an open mind and always learn.

I guess I should clarify the fact that we set camp on the fringe of the prime elk country we hunt. Just that we try to do so in a manner that we can get into other drainages easily if needed. Although we have had elk come right thru camp many a time.

I would agree though, that if a guy can have horses or mules, his mobility greatly increases.

Being mobile means you can leave when the elk aren't there, But that should not be confused with not seeing elk. In hot dry years I've been told by out hunter the elk must have left when I have been into elk daily in the same area.
I have a list of places that I'll be able to hunt from a wheelchair when my legs give out. places that the elk travel through every year during the hunt. Dad killed a cow the last time he was out here hunting at one of them. he had an O2 bottle with him.
they range from 10,900' to 7,500'

Learning a lot as we go. And its much appreciated. I don't know that I can afford to rent horses or mules, but when relocating to further NW, I may look into it, especially if its feasible for the wife and I only. The rest would be a waste and love their ATVS, but it crimps being able to pull a horse trailer or the like. I'd prefer a mule, but thats probably a long shot...

I could cover some good ground on foot, at my age, but still cannot pack the meat quick enough without help. So foot limits it.

Keep it coming.... I"m generally not closed minded, but got into a rut I guess, plus the fact I skip years going other places and tend to forget minor things sometimes.....

I"ve read a few books on the game, and it seems to boil down to thick nasty and or escape routes, problem is I prefer MZ season and as mentioned, have yet to see another hunter out there and was assuming meant not enough pressure to sit a saddle for days on end and wait... Not sure I want to anyways, would be too much like whitetail to me. But covering ground till we find fresh sign and then playing em is fine.

Sounds like years more work ahead of me.

I will say this, looking at topo maps and some common sense has gone a long ways instead of stumbling around blindly.

Jeff

BTW these days is one considering the pressure from say the rifle seasons to be equal to the archery or MZ seasons? If thats the case, one might as well try a rifle season.

Jeff

I like to do the MZ hunt when we can, but it seems with the popularity in archery and MZ that its getting crowded sometimes.

We usually hunted the 3rd rifle and sometimes the 4th rifle. Used to great, but word of mouth got around and every person in the world seemed to be in the area. The elk learned and now the don't come as far down as they used too. So we tried the 1st rifle last year in the limited draw and the elk hunting was excellent. Saw many fine bulls and tons of cows. Took a dandy CO bull opening morning. We are trying again this year. Hunting pressure was light. Especially after the weekend.

I haven't heard anyone talk about being agressive when you see an elk. Lots said about being where the elk are and that is paramount. But once an elk is sighted,knowing what to do is second only to finding an elk to hunt. My theory is to close the gap FAST! Get into that 100 yard range (bowhunting) then slow up and seal the deal. I've taken 3 bulls in 3 years all on the first evening of the hunt doing this and you can bet I'll try it again next season. Find an elk, close the gap, make it happen!

Ater mulling everything over I finally figured out where I went wrong,must of been the damn blue tape on the muzzle.....grin

Told ya!

Damn, and there I was thinking I could get away with the blue tape, I'll have to now make it a point to find black tape.

I have a list just like that. Places where you could bet money you will get a shot at an elk if you sit for a day or two. I cant force myself to sit for elk. Saving those spots for when my body tells me I have to.

I have a few places like that, they were showed to me by my dad. He didn't hunt them but my elderly great aunt and uncle did. Certain saddles that were easily reached from the truck Dad could push elk past them at least once a season, alot of times they were the only ones in our party to get shooting and sometimes an elk. My wife killed a young 5 point in one two years ago. She was mad cuz she thought I was just getting her out of my hair. She trusts me now!!

I figure when any of us (Grandpa is 92, Dad is 72, I'm 47 and my boy is 15) are too old to hunt anymore, we'll dis-enroll from the Access Yes program where we let others do it, and shoot our elk off one of the pivots where the b@stards insist on tearing down the fences and eating our hay...

You know, we spend months during the off-season arguing about bullets, cartridges, what it takes to shoot an elk from 500 yards, but this thread really points out the realities of elk hunting. Finding them can really be the hard part.

Finding em always has been the hard part for me. Once found I may not have been able to seal the deal, but they are much easier to deal with if you can find them, vs not ever finding em..

This was my first archery tag since '87. I got home tonight. My 15-year-old son missed 5 shots. I tried like hell to get him a bull and had only one real bull come it- a 400+ inch bull but he got impatient and peeked around his tree to see the bull and got busted. This resulted in a hurried and longer shot- I saw many, many bulls- well into the 200s. I counted 80 bulls one afternoon. I was hunting in mostly open country and getting close was the hard part. The rut really didn't kick in until 2 days ago. Last night I "bugled" two bulls in as we butchered another with the headlights of the truck- when they are hot, they will come in.

Elk can and will move a LONG ways. We had a bull move 20 miles overnight several times. This is easy country and they won't move nearly as far in rough mountains or timber. The moon is a BIG deal. They were hot several days before the full moon and then shut down until 8 days after. I had my tent set close to the action and was serenaded to sleep several nights. It was deathly quiet for a week.

Elk hunting can't be analyzed generically as there are vastly different types of terrain and conditions. What I encountered in AZ this year where they are living in sparse cliffrose, algerita bushes and knee-high sage doesn't mean anything when you are talking high-country elk in timber etc.

I have a remote spot I used to camp at that NEVER has any pressure- they are ALWAYS there and fun- it's thick timber and this is a poor way to trophy hunt so I rarely go there anymore.

If you are NOT in a spot like this, you need to be able to move 5 or more miles to where elk are. Bowhunting is vastly different than rifle hunting. Had I been carrying a rifle this year, I could have killed any one of 40 different bulls that were 375 or bigger bulls. As it was, I only got close enough to two of them- those are tough odds. With one exception, every bull that was killed in the two areas I hunted (that I could find anything out about) were killed sitting on water. Only one guy was able to call in a respectable bull close enough to kill it. The little guys were easy, but the big boys were more cautious.

The more you go out, the more you learn.

Let me start by saying thank you to the veterans for sharing your knowledge. I leave for 1st rifle season in CO in a couple weeks and I am fired up for my first crack at a bull elk on a backpack D-I-Y hunt on public land. My buddy and I have done the mule deer thing for 2 years. We've graduated from the "Am I going to survive this gig," refined our gear and look forward to another great year. So far, we're not a threat to the animal population but that's okay because I am loving the whole process. Many around here (Tx) look at us like we're crazy but we have the mountain hunting bug in a bad kinda way.

Anyway, had the opportunity to scout my unit in the middle of Sept. I was a little bummed that I didn't see any elk but I found lots of sign in the hard to reach gulch I'd scouted from afar. I got familiar with the area and barring heavy snows, I believe the elk will be as mentioned above, within 1000' of timberline. I understand covering territory to find where the elk are is critical but the last thing I want to do is bust them into the next drainage. I'm all for hard work but its hard enough the way we're hunting without making it any harder on ourselves. While covering ground in the morning, the wind was angling down the mountain until about 9am. The wind flipped about 9:30am 180 degrees. Typical mountain thermals and I'm just not sure how to account for this when still hunting. How do you cover all this ground changing gulches or ridges with the wind flipping like it does? I hate the thought of losing 1000' elevation or gaining 1000' of elevation to go way above timberline or way below a "likely-area" to avoid blowing elk that might be there. Is that what you do? Seriously?

Within the timber, have you seen the elk bed on the super steep slopes or are they more likely to gravitate towards the benches and points? The area I want to start will likely get more elk as the hunt progresses. I'm thinking about picking a bench near timberline opening morning to catch elk being pushed up or over into my gulch. Start moving once the wind swaps but looking for the techniques from you veterans.

More than likely, it will be like my turkey hunting experience. Write the book on what not to do and you learn what to do by accident, then start over.

I don't buy the archery pressure thing. I've hunted both rifle and arhery and there are by FAR more rifle hunters than archery hunters. In 2007 for all manners of take the state wide average was 22%. For the first rifle it was 32%. For second rifle it drops to 20%. For 3rd rifle it drops to 13%. For 4th rifle it goes up to 17%. For late season hunts, after they have been chased around for months it jumps to 44%. It's a matter of knowing the animals and getting lucky. But there's a reason why some hunters are successfull year after year and others are never successfull.

BB I'll say this, and its only my opinion, but if you are trusting your gut to find them in that gut on the mountain come season, its a big risk.

Personally I"d rather bust them if that happens, though I cover ground during the day when they are bedded, if I've no luck early and late... and its hard to bust them that way, but can happen. But at least if I bust them I have live tracks to follow.... to find them.

Now if you gulch happens to be an escape route you are good.

I can remember a hunt in the 80s where someone showed us an area, had old sign and said they'd be back, that was a long week of archery and never saw an elk ever...

Good luck!

Jeff

Boils down to knowing the area and having time to pre scout....Co. is too far from NY for that to be plausible for me...heck went out last night to scout for deer on a property I know inside out saw 14 deer (4 buck) with in 5 minutes of sneaking in......

Pre scout doesn't do that much good if they are 20 miles away the next morning, but knowing the territory and where to maybe look is a plus.

Whitetails are about as reverse from elk as I've ever seen.

Jeff

Totally depends on where you are. In AZ and NM for example, ALL tags are carefully allotted and there are often more archery hunters than rifle hunters as they know the success rate will be lower and can issue more tags without impacting the herd negatively. I saw what archery pressure can do- watched a couple of herds Monday-Thursday (opening day was the next day. By close of business Friday- all 250 of the elk were completely gone. This is open country that can be glassed from afar with big eyes and there is NO doubt that they were gone. They had to move at least 5 miles to leave this area. Many went onto a indian reservation and others just dispersed away in smaller groups as to be harder to locate. I quit that group after the first morning circus and hunted smaller groups in other areas to avoid all the pressure. Even the ones my son and I chased bailed out of the area to where there was no hunt. Don't underestimate human pressure.

Maybe in Tx...deer here don't take kindly to presure and will either skidadle or burry them selfs,seems if ya know the area and tread lightly both species will be comfortable and stay put(provided there is food and cover)May be different in fenced feeder places......

Whitetails will stay put. Elk will not. They'll bug out most times, and then dive deep. Whitetails, we simply know their area and make the right move at the right time, doing that with an elk that could be 20 plus miles away won't work.

At least I"ve found that with our pen raised pet feeder deer that we name before killing, they haven't moved, they've only holed up.

I"ve rarely found elk holed up in one tiny part of a mountain the whole year, if that were the case they'd be much easier to hunt. Heck they've gone from one big mountain to another in a day easy, I followed a moving out herd one day for just over 11 miles on foot and they were still going and headed who knows where. I never caught them, only followed fresh tracks and sign that we stumbled across early that morning.

Of course without the negative comments we could be hunting different deer, I often hunt public land and those deer are always in the same area, sometimes holding tight other times out and about depending on pressure, but always in the same area, that may not be the same as your deer further up north do.

One thing I have learned is tracks can sometimes be misleading, but fresh crap is only fresh for a little while. Meaning we saw what we thought were fresh tracks in the area we hunted this year but all the crap was old. Finally found an area with fresh crap and fresh tracks and on the North side of the slope at 11,600 ft we finally found the elk. Moral of the story look for fresh [bleep] it don't lie, but it can hit the fan .

Jeff - I'm sad to hear you weren't successful. I've followed your efforts for a couple years now. You are very deserving of some success.

I'm one of those 'kill a cow almost every year' types but I prolly couldn't hunt the way you do. I won't admit how many years it took before things started to click for me.

One thing I've learned is to make hunting pressure work for me. Study topographical maps and cross- reference them with logging landings and other spots where guys park their rigs every year. Then look for natural alleys and paths out of those areas, once the road hunters hit opening day the Elk will be on the move, and they'll come through those natural pathways. If you can set up on a choke point you might get a chance to see them moving out.

Cattle

I've been lucky... its rained the day or so before season the times Iv'e been, its pretty easy to age tracks then, plus the moisture in the fresh looking tracks from overnight gives em away as old, and the rain makes them within 48 hours or so generally easy.

Alamosa

Appreciate the thoughts but dont' feel sorry for me, I'm only trying my best to learn and thats the reason of the thread. Wife and I just talked last night, an area change, plus readapting base camp "rules" and we'll be packing one nights stuff as a just in case, we'll still be going roadless if possible, but long day or two hikes and then when we find the pot of gold, go back, get more gear and set off again to see what we can do...

Oregon
going to have to pay much more attention.... I was thinking choke point stuff was all for high pressure rifle seasons.. add that to my previous experience was in the late 80s archery when it was much different..... I'm sad I quit hunting and went to competition shooting in one way, but the shooting and awards nationally was very rewarding.... Choke points may be a big thing for mz and archery too these days.

Jeff

Good point Alamosa, I'm relatively new to elk hunting (10 years) and one of the things that helped me to get it to "click" was hunting a few different areas until I found some that I felt confident I could fine elk in. I started out hunting an area that held elk but was tough to find 'em in, and after a couple years moved on to an entirely different part of the state. Just like the real estate market, I believe one of the main keys to success is location so my advice is to keep looking for "your spot(s)" until you find them. One of the things that helps a lot in elk hunting is confidence that you'll be able to find elk. It's tough to keep going day after day if you don't have that confidence and if you hunt an area where you're not seeing elk for whatever reason, it robs your confidence and you don't hunt as hard or as smart as you should.

My $.02.

Well, I'll take a stab at this. Bear in mind that while I've hunted a very wide variety of habitat types, I've only got one elk season behind me. About two months, one week of scouting and seven weeks of hunting.
My first move is to get the very best, latest, up to date maps I can get. My favorites are made by MyTopo.com in Montana. Made for whatever area you want, with whatever scale you want and from the latest in aerial photos. Worth their weight in gold.
When I get there, I set up camp in centrally located spot and drive whatever areas I can in my 4WD. Even looking at country from afar, via powerful binoculars or a spotting scope, can tell you alot about what kind of country it is.
If I've got time to scout, I walk into the areas I can. I get up high and glass as much as possible, especially when the animals should be moving. I like to walk ridge tops, especially crossings. I like to walk the tops of the drainages and look for trails made by game.
I particularly like to hunt after we get some snow. In fact, the day after a light snow is the best time to get out where you expect to find them. With good binoculars of say 8X, you can see fresh elk tracks a long way off. Miles. Literally miles.
I hit the trail when hunting a couple of hours before legal shooting time. I want to be in there and up there when it's legal to shoot. Hiking in the dark w/o lights near the hunting area, there is a real chance they won't even know you are around.
Last of all, this type of hunting really wears me down. Every 2-3 days, I must take a break. I take the day off. I might drive around and scout/glass from my 4WD.
BTW, another point is note where the hunters go. Go where they don't. Even if it doesn't look so good. Especially if horses can't go there.
Still another. I've noticed that elk do travel a long way when hunted to avoid pressure. But, sometimes they will come back. Especially the younger animals. So check the easy to check places or at least keep an eye out when traveling to your hunting areas. Either on foot or by vehicle.
I found two nice bulls last year that literally moved into areas not far, less than 3/4 of a mile, from roads well after the season had been going for a week or so.
That's still another one. Everybody seems to hunt the first or the last of the season. So how about hunting the middle of the season ? E

Good thoughts, when season is 9 days, there is no middle of....

More mobile keeps coming through... Its not what I initially planned but I can make it work. I dont' care for up at 2-3 am and back at 10pm.... but we'll see how we can make it work from now on.

Jeff

My thoughts are that with only nine days, you might be inclined to overdo it. Be careful. Take lots of extra trail snacks, drink lots of water, take plenty of glassing breaks. Nothing wrong with lying down for a short nap for a while in the field.
My other thought is consider another state where the seasons are longer and with better weather conditions. More animals, etc. E

What state has more animals than Co. ? ....maybe a state with less hunting presure would be a better option....

We try to sleep a few hours during mid day, out away from anything, and eat well enough.

Jeff, Getting up at 2-3 and hitting the sack at 10PM, you are not going to last very long.Especially if you are on foot. You need to decide if you want to hunt mornings or evenings. I prefer mornings and very seldom get back to camp after dark now days. In my young and stupid days I did. I actally kill more elk now. One has to remind himself/herself that they are out there to have fun,not kill themselves.

Well, I'd hate to have to choose; I like to hunt mornings and evenings. Where I hunt, the elk are always up and feeding in the hour right before dark so I don't want to miss that time. If you pack in close enough (but not too close!!!) to your hunting area(s) like Jeff is trying to do I think you can do both and still be back to camp by 8 or 9 at the latest.

I hear you on the fun part, I'll hunt the mornings harder usually and knock off before legal light ends in the evenings typically.

But on the fun part, I'm there to hunt, I can overdo it, but I didn't drive all that way to just camp out. I can do that at home if it makes sense.

That being said there are mornings we just sleep in anyway and evenings where I'm so worn out we are back at the tent and mountain house done by darkthirty and in the bags.

The other thing my body doesnt like for some reason, maybe being a flatlander, is climbing early, I don't know if it doens't start up that early or what, or maybe we try to eat oatmeal and run without it settling.... so I tend to try to camp up higher,maybe too high and too close to the animals, right now it typically takes us 30 minutes or so to get to and from the tent.... that makes the days much easier.

I'm still formulating but starting to think that leaving the paratipi at the truck and gearing up simply for bags and a low tarp and 2 days of food and snacks and setting up loops that would allow 1 day out, overnight and 1 day back till we locate might be the best compromise, 80 pounds of pack for a full 7 days of food etc... is just too much to go hard with for me. Day after day.

I'm getting there... Am going to rip our packs apart one evening and cull not needed crap as I go, and make a list and take ONLY that...

And to ALL involved here, thanks for the patience and the teaching. Now for that one snide azz, I've got to scout out my pen raised, deer feeder, penned up dog size TX deer to go murder....

Jeff

I�ve been hunting the same GMU�s (mostly Unit 4) for many years � almost every year since 1982. The first few years I hunted the same area as we had seen and taken elk there. Then I ran in to a string of years where seeing elk was less frequent and getting one was even more so.

Our luck changed when we changed tactics. Instead of continuing to hunt an area where there were no elk being seen (and sometimes no tracks in the fresh snow!), we got mobile and went low. Now we move around, still mostly in Unit 4, locate the elk and hunt where they are, not where we think they should be or where we hope or want them to be. The change made upped my success rate from about 25% to 77.8% since 1999, and I�ve passed on a couple opportunities where I ended up going home empty-handed.

One thing I do when I know I'll be climbing in the morning is put an energy bar next to my sleeping bag and choke it down as soon as I wake up, before I get out of the sleeping bag. It's digesting while I get dressed and get breakfast ready and it helps fuel the early morning hour before breakfast kicks in.

Smokepole,hit the nail on the head. Oatmeal isn't going to give you much in way of food value. That is one of the problems with back packing. You don't get enough of the right kind of food. My breakfeast is two eggs,hash browns, a slice of ham and a tortilla.

Another area of concern is that by camping up high,your body cannot replenish oxygen supply when you are sleeping.This is worse for a flat lander coming into high country

Geez, guess i gotta look into the nutrition issue closer... it felt much more like digesting could not happen while we were climbing, IE not enough air to do both, kinda like when you are all clogged up and can't breathe...

I might have to try my RX of diamox once, but really we sleep find generally if I"m not stopped up from allergies, and its not energy thats lacking in the mornings, its just a plain strange feeling, kinda tight chest/tight stomach like don't move, you just ate, let me get the digestion working and then you can go.

I have in the past woke up, did 2-3 packs of oatmeal, then went and slept another 30 minutes and then left, that seemed much better.

Flatlander might answer most of it... and nothing to do about that. Sure ain't packing all that breakfast food along, might go the route of the clif bar and back to logan bread.

BTW I sure like power gels.... moose goo must be the same and it would be nice to make up a few batches to stick in toothpaste type tubes to use here and there as needed on hard(for us) climbs.

Bottom line is we'll get there. I"ll have this thing whipped at some point.

Jeff

Yep, it does take oxygen to climb and digest food, but if you don't have the calories, all the oxygen in the world won't help

Usually when I run out of calories, or at least thats what I think it is, my legs don't want to go. I have to make them go... thats when the gel comes out for a quick fix.

The belly/chest tightness... I dunno, could be calories, seems to be something else, but the way to find out is to look hard at finding a larger carb load early in the morning and see what that does.

I've discussed with the wife, maybe logan bread/bars in the AM and take the pocket rocket along and do a better breakfast around 9am, but that would typically be after all the climbing.

I do know she carb loads before a triathlon the night before, mostly noodles etc.... maybe our evening meal should also be carb loading?

Lots to learn.

Jeff

Here�s some more ways to help guarantee �non-success��

1. Smoke it if you have it. Not only will the animals smell you from a long ways off, it ruins your lungs and makes it harder to get where the animals are in the first place. Of course, in the long run those issues will be minor�

2. Get drunk every night in camp. I don�t mind folks having a drink or two once the guns are put away, but many drink so much they can hardly function the next day. A few years back we camped just inside the gates of Routt Nat�l Forest where there were a number of other camps as well. Really got tired of hearing people puking their guts out at 2:00 in the morning.

3. Act as if the animals were deaf. Can�t believe all the folks that go through the woods yakking it up as if they were in a sound-proof booth.

I agree with all... since I"ve been called out for my pipe picture, that was 30 minutes before leaving, truck and trailer loaded, guns away..
I carry a tiny bottle of airlines whiskey and tang mix just in case I'm ever lucky..... never used it yet. Drank half can of coors light in base camp....
Whispers all around, I can't stand normal tone of voice talking... just anal about things like that.

I come to hunt, not to camp, not to cook, not to eat, not to smoke, not to drink, I can do all that at home, much more relaxed and not worried....

Good points!

Jeff

The whole problem with the " I come to hunt and not eat or cook" scenario is that guys first change thier diet from what they usually eat at home and skimp on cooking good wholesome meals. This then affects thier ability to give it thier all when hunting. They wonder why they have diarhea, or are constipated, or thier stomach is churning. One is not going to get the 2500-3000 calories needed per day eating oatmeal and food out of little bags that you just add hot water to. Carbs are great, but one needs protien too.

That sounds good to me. Rip your packs apart and get rid of anything you didn't really need. The only exception would be that which will keep you dry and reasonably warm. I'd just do over nighters until I found where I wanted to hunt.
There is flat no way you can go from plus 250 ft. to plus 10,000 and be able to do what you've been doing.
I get that "slow start" sometimes. So, allow more time and go slower. Learn how to breath between steps like the mountaineers do.
"Carb loading" at the evening meal is a good idea. Mountaineers eat through the night. You might try that.
Oatmeal has alot of fiber. Which makes it digest more slowly. Yes, you should have some protein with each meal. Not much. E

Happy to report nice solid turds while in CO as long as the drive up doesn't get me constipated and plugged up....

Open to everything but bottom line is we don't eat well at home and not that much generally... I"d think the meals in a bag would be more balanced if anything but thats an aside...

Mind you once in place I don't hunt hard, I go slow... blow less stuff out that way, but gotta get to where I'm hunting too..

Breakfast- 1-3 packets of oatmeal. Need to adapt that I"m sure.
Cliff bars as a snack at times. Lunch ends up being snacks off and on all day, cheese crackers, dry sausage, jerky, string cheese, pilot bread, logan bread, candy(just a bit) lots to drink water wise. Dry fruit. Trail mix. Supper is mountain house. Gels as needed if its gonna get hard strenuous.
Food input welcome. We have to eat a bit every so often as my wifes metabolism is built that way as an athlete, which actually works better for us I think, we eat a bit, and go and do it again instead of a big gut bomb.... Supper wise I could see adding some freeze dry noodles or ramen noodles for extra carbs. a K pill now and then isn't bad either.

Problem is my wife is barely 100 pounds and its hard for her to carry 40-50 pounds of weight, I suck at 80, but I try to carry the excess weight as she really shouldn't have more than 30 or so according to her weight.
Now since we are going from 5-7 days of gear to an overnighter, we can change that weight quite a bit.

I experience non success issues every elk season! Its no big deal...

Jeff,
Is backpack hunting choice becuase that is the way you think you have to get to the Elk? Get away from other hunters? Or just the way you want to do it?

I choose a hard to access 4 wheel drive forest road and camp right off the road and hike less than a mile and can be alone in the area most of the time. And the elk usually aren't that far off the trails just have to hit the right spots at the right times in the right areas, (sound like winning the lotto-lol)

Some of it is thinking... I mean less folks should be better... and we are about what you are talking, tail end of a jeep trail that leads into wilderness. Honestly we usually are not that far off the boundary as the crow flies but it can be a couple of miles of an actual walk distance wise or so.

Since we are gonna swap out areas next time I"ll re think what I"m doing. I don't mind the backpacking at all though, I like it actually and as mentioned, I do it only because I'm in a zone, the horses go further in, the foot hunters generally are not that far most times.

Any more advise is welcome and if you need to do it PM wise I"m open to that to as we are in the same general area..

BTW keep at it with the bow, it all comes around