I just aquired a Browning BLR in 358 Win.

I think this will be a good rifle for elk in the dark thick timber.

Any of you had experience with this cartridge on elk?

Favorite load?

...No experience, but the numbers work.

My boss took one with a .358 Win and a Partition. DRT.

A buddy of mine has taken about a dozen elk, at least one black bear and a couple of mule deer with his .358 BLR. He loves that thing! I'll ask what he uses, can't remember for sure. 225's of some sort as I recall, but I don't know for sure...

Necked up Remington .308 cases, Reloader 15 and 225 TSX. Deadly

For what its worth, I have killed a few elk and a buffalo with the 358 win. It works great on elk, or anything else out to about 200 to 250yds. You don't have to use premium bullets either as, heavy bullets and lower velocities equal good penatration with standard bullets. My BLR didn't like the Barnes 225, but the Savage, Ruger and Winchester did. My two favorite bullets for the 358 win. are the Hornady 200gr spire pt and the sierra 225gr sbt. The Speer 250gr should be great for a timber load too. The 200 gr at 2500 fps or the 225 at 2400 fps have worked for me through the years. I have used Win 748, Ramshot Tac, and IMR 3031 powder with good success. The 358 doesn't have much flash, but the people that use it are addicted to the cal. At least I am. Take care, Daryl.

I have a model 99 in .358 set up with a 1.5X5 scope just for elk in the timber. It likes 225 grain Partitions.

Daryl, I thought the same thing that the Hornady 200 gr spire point would work very well at 358 velocity. No big need for a premium bullet. I have to admit that I will test the Barnes TSX as well since it has been so accurate in other calibers.

Reba, I intend to use a 1.5 - 5X scope as well.

No, but I've hunted elk with one. Killed a half-dozed deer with it. Shot it a BUNCH and owned two of 'em.

For elk, my load is the 225-gn Partition. The 200-gn Hornady is indeed a great bullet in a .358, but I can't find a reason to choose it over the Partition for elk, so...

Got to try some of that TAC. IMR4895 is what gives me "speed" with 225's... 3031 did too, but 4895 was a little more accurate and a little more speed.

Yup...

225 NP from my Sako .358 win.

I love that picture...

What's your load again, BT53?

You guys sound like a bunch of little kids gathered around a fire and talking about your "big elk rifles"...while your dads are off cleaning their REAL elk rifles...the 35 Whelens!
Couldn't resist.

Jeff, I love it too, that's why I keep throwing it out there. I guess <g>

A max load of W748...not near as fast as some of yours and Loggers loads, but fast enough.

I would get a BLR in .358 rather sooner than later. The lack of real world data for:

.358 Win with 200gr. TSX /225gr. TSX from the 20" BLR barrel

keeps me, yet.

I recognize, one does not need TSX at those speeds.

Still, Iwould be very interested in your loads and the speeds you are getting.

Please keep us posted.

Good Luck

CMG,

From a 20" Pac-Nor barrel I can touch 2500 fps with 225-gn bullets, and get 2640 fps with 200-gn bullets. These are actual speeds. I use IMR4895 for 225's and RL7 for 200's. JB reports speeds well into the 2500's with TAC and 225's but I have not personally tried it. Not a knock on Mr. Barsness, but I've rarely been able to even come close to other people's speeds in my .358's- they report one thing, I get something much, much less... so I'll believe it when I see it! :-) TAC is on my "to try" list, for sure, though.

IMR4895 does deliver 2500 fps, though.

I did mess with the 200gn X bullet, pre TSX, in my .358's. Velocities were similar to jacketed 200's; I'd have to dig way back in my notes for specifics, but that's a general statement of truth <g>.

My opinion- a 225 TSX is going to be painfully long in many .358's. It's gonna cost you some significant velocity. Case capacity is a bugaboo us .358 guys rassle with. WIth 225 Partitions, I am able to pack 51 grains of powder into the case and that gets me right up to 2480 fps. This is a HIGHLY compressed load; 51 grains won't even fit in the .358 case without some shenanigans, to put it in perspective.

Anyway, I have not DONE it, but the extra length of the TSX is gonna cost you 4-5 grains of powder, minimum, and that's gonna put you under 2400 fps.

That's what would happen in the two .358's I've owned and loaded for. If your rifle has a long magazine, it might not matter one bit. Just load them out longer.

Finally... I get the TSX thing; but seriously... at these types of velocities, what exactly is the worry with a 225-gn Partition?? That sucker is going to PENETRATE, and will most likely expand more reliably at those speeds too. My opinion.

Jeff O,

My thoughts exactly.
I didn't try the TSX, simply because I knew the NP would be softer and more likely to upset if I needed to throw it at something way out there. Also, I run the Sierra 225 spbt with the same load and even better accuracy, for practice and incidental deer strafing.
If there's any difference in drop to 300 (farthest I've played with) I can't see it and the loads are inner changeable without re-sighting. One rifle, one load, two bullet options.

I had the .358 out yesterday looking to fill my damage elk permit. Our winter has been funky here and the elk have not spent much time on the property that the tag is good for. Time is running out (Mar 31)!
Shooting op's can be as far as I feel comfortable, but I'll stalk if I spot them from a distance. Most likely it will be in the oaks at fairly close range and whatever angle is presented.

I haven't and don't intend to play with other bullets. I don't see a need for them. These two cover all the bases I see for that cartridge and use. If I want to target deer, I'll drag out the .270 and hone the buck knife.

My biggest challenge (worry) is that I have to be sure of my back ground behind the targeted animal, because that NP will pass through on all but "stem to stern" shots and I don't want to hit another elk by accident!

I knew an ol' boy that used a 250-300 Sav 99, 100 gr Rem Corelokts, to gather up his elk...deer...moose...chicken killing anything...don't see why anyone would think 358 W wouldn't do well...my Marlin 336 in 356 W doesn't seem to be bothered much in taking anything it gets pointed at...and in the old days, a 22 LR would do the job if you stuck one in the eye into the brain...if you could shoot well enough.

The 358W is a very good medium caliber when used with 225-250 gr bullets at a modest velocity and range. It's not bad with lighter bullets, 180-200 gr, I just prefer the heavier ones. I never could figure out why people extoled the virtues of the 308 and bad mouthed the 358...same as the 30-06 vs 35 Whelen...all of them will take most of the worlds game without a problem...as long as the bullet was placed correctly!!!

Enjoy your toys...all of them...which ever you have.

...That 358 hit'em so hard the eyes bugged out!....I saw shades of old John Wooters his Sako 308 full stock favorite in hand, when I spied your Sako dandy in the photo...

JeffO and others,

thank you very much for the replys. It all puts it into perspective. From your reports I deduct, 200 gr. TSX might be more feasible. W/o rifle to play with, I am thinking, it just might make more sense for me then to get the BLR .308, load it with 180 TSX and be done. Kind of a shame. .358 always appealed to me. The TSXs I want for dog work where I appretiate a bullet that a) does not shed mass and b) penetrates straight, so I can avert danger from my dog.

Thanks again for your help.

Under 300 yards, its perty damn good... Rosie bull, 225 SGK @ 2500fps

I agree with the others as well, you don't need a "premium boolit". I just picked my 13 year old up a BLR 358 for Christmas, he loves it already. It'll see some bull and blacktail action during its lifetime...

Weidmannsheil. Nice critter.

On the pic, I like the way how you managed to almost cover the rifle it its entirety with the antler

Any details.

Thanks cmg. Its a Model 88 I parted ways with to safariman last week. My next one wil be a 700 SA or 600/660 with a McMillan. That one there was a dandy, but not too friendly in this [bleep] hole we hunt in up here. The bull is a 280'' Rosie, a hawg, considering the area he was killed in. 225 SGK works perty good...

Never shot a elk with mine but have shot a lot of "cridders" with it(it will smoke a elk). I used to be a hornady 250 RN man, but 225 of any kind are the way to go with the 358!

Ed

I have the 358 BLR and have loaded quite a bit for it with 180/200 and 220/225 bullets. I've obtained excellent accuracy in with IMR 4064. There may be a few powders that give faster velocities, but it has been a great all around powder. It gave me this 3-shot group with the 200 Rem CL:



and this 10-shot group with the 200 Sierras (the top one was my fault):



Results were comparable with the 200 Hornady and 180 Speer.

With the 225 TSX, I've used IMR 4895, 3031 and Viht N-135. With 4895 and N-135 I got 2400+ fps. It is compressed fairly well with both. I may work with some other powders but I bought these before the 200 TSX's were made and I think if I were to use this bullet, I'd lean towards that weight. In addition to the above powders, with the 225 GK, I've also used AA 2520, Varget and IMR 4064. I was able to approach 2500 fps with a few of these powders. Some claim this bullet is ideal for the 358's velocities but I can't say, I've never shot anything with it. For me, in the 225's, though I haven't loaded them, I'm leaning towards the Partition as long as I get decent accuracy. I have not tried any 250's but after JB's article in Handloader and TAC, it's on the list. It's a great cartridge...I don't know of anyone who's been disappointed in it.

I sure couldn't get AA2520 to do squat for me! 3031 works, but meters badly (for me) and so I've settled on IMR4895 for 225's... I'll be trying some TAC soon though.

I ended up finally burning my pound of AA2520 up in my AR15, where it worked very well.

What did you get with Varget? That's interesting...

Case capacity is the burr under your saddle with .358, generally. It's also been the cartridge I've had the most adventure with reloading- as in resizing cases, highly compressed loads, etc. Things I don't do with other cartridges.

You're right about AA2520. I didn't work with it a whole lot but I did get a 3 shot group of about 2" with 47.0 grns and a velocity of around 2460. Going to 48.0 grns added very little velocity and opened the group up to around 5".

With Varget, I was getting 2400 fps with 49.0 grns. Accuracy was not bad (3-shot 1.5")and I could probably work with it a little more and tune it in. But I was getting much tighter with a grain less of IMR 4064. It has been a good powder for me in the 358 and BLR with 180-225 grain bullets.

I too have compressed several loads with 358 so I may try out some faster powders I have such as Benchmark, RL-7 or 10x and see how they perform. I also have onhand TAC which has worked well for me in the 35 Rem and 223 Rem so I may tinker with those as well.

John Barsness did some work with 338 Fed and .358 and TAC and the numbers looked REALLY good. In fact, I just bought a pound today, and I'm headed out to my shop right now to load some up!

I'll let you know what I get. Even if I can just match my 2500 fps load (with 225's) but without the massive compression, that's progress.

-jeff

Hey Jeff_O,

I finally got that damage permit filled.
50 yards or so. Double lung with the 225 NP. Went about 20 yards to think it over and tipped. Crappy pic - sorry!

Nice shot. What kind of a light were you using?

LOL!!

"That" didn't take long.....
There was plenty of legal shooting light. But by the time I decided that a picture or two ought'a be taken, it was getting pretty dim.

One of the most sensible non magnum moderate cartridges for elk.

I've killed several animals with my 358 including three moose, one which the 358 was only an "assist" on. And I've used and liked the 225X as much or more than any others. That bullet, with AA2230, would move at over 2300 fps and seemed to hit with far greater effect than any 250 SP. AA2520 is a good powder when you want to kick a 250 along at 2300 fps from 20 inches of barrel, something I have found challenging with other powders.

Yep I have that issue of Handloader and great article. I'll look forward to your results.

I don't have a 358 Win any longer, but I was so impressed with the 358 caliber I built a 35-284. Nothing special as far as the build goes, just an OLD Savage 110 action that was a 243 at birth and a Douglas barrel. The only work on the action was a good polishing and lapping, lapping the lugs to 100% contact and truing up the bolt face.
So far I have liked the Sierra 225 BT for Elk. I have heard all the stories about the bullet will not pennetrate and blows up to easily. I can get an honest 2700 fps out of the bullet (more with different powders, but settled on 3031)
The last 4 Elk I shot with the gun the Sierras completely pennetrated the Elk and one Elk was taken with almost a Texas Heart shot. I have yet to recover a bullet. All Elk were taken with 1 shot each and either droped at the shot or went no more than 20 or 30 yards.
The 358 Win with the right bullet is NO WAY a short range rifle, not at all. I have also found the Sierra to be the most accurate with my gun several times shooting 1 3/8" groups at 200 yards. That is right around 3/4 inch group at 100 yards.

I built my 358 'Thumper' using a 21" 12 twist SS Pac Nor barrel screwed into a Savage 16 action...although never have used it on elk I feel it is more than qualified....250 gr Hornady's pushed out with a 44/H4895 charge in a reformed 308 case register 2314 fps on my Chrono...you don't need a wiz bang magnum to drop an elk at reasonable ranges...the ole 358 Win can do it....

Hey Judman, lets a picture of that gun. Great Rosie too by the way.
Looks like some sort of maple stock from the picture. I'd love some details.

I carried my .358 a couple times elk hunting. One of those times, about a dozen morose-looking elk went by single-file at 70 yards... Me with an "any bull" tag and palpitating heart... All cows.

Maybe they were morose because their bull or spike had been shot? Sure were a bunch of Sad Sacks. Or maybe I'm anthromorphisizing (sp).

It'll work. Just use good bullets and keep the range to less than 250 yards. The 358 is a good cartridge, but it is not a 338 Win Mag or 340 Weatherby in the range department.

JUDMAN,

LOVE the rifle, thanks for selling it to me. I am still hoping you and your boy can make it out this spring for some rodent blasting

And,,,,, FANTASTIC Roosevelt Elk there! I have never seen a Rosie that big.... yet Still hopin

S'man

PS, the loads I have setteled on are a 225TSX backed by a case full of TAC and some 220gr Gas Check cast bullets ahead of 25gr of 5744 for a small game bullet to keep in my pocket in case something edible presents itsself and I dont want to make a mess of it or make a lot of noise.

Right on Mark! Hated to part with it, but she was too perty for buckin the brush over here. My next one will be stainless with synthetic. That bull is a TRUE Rosie too, not one of them Randle/TroutLake wannabes'. grin.....

We can't wait to get over there either, still leaning towards next spring if its alright? Stay in touch. Later

I've had great results with the 225 Nosler Partition and Win. 748 at 2550 in a 23" re barreled Ruger 77. This rifle is wonderfully accurate and consistent. I've used it on elk, deer and one unfortunate coyote. The elk was hit broad side at 90 yards and did not take a step.

Bump for a good thread, and to update my TAC results.

Awesome!

2500 fps with the 225-NPT and Sierra, and it got me away from powder compression and has been an accurate, stable load these last two years. Many thanks to John Barsness, as his TAC load eliminated some real hassles for me.

Haven't killed an elk with mine still, but have continued to spank blacktails with the wonderful .358.

Hey BT53- killed any more elk with yours?

Funny how the .358 is handicapped to 200 yards, yet a .338 with the same bullet weight moving a measily 300 fps faster is a hammer on elk to 600 yards. Come on guys, get real....please. Sure, it isn't the flattest shooting round, but it ain't no .357 magnum either. Flinch

357 Maximum maybe...

Sorry couldn't resist.

Dober

My brother uses his BLR .358 as his primary elk rifle, It kills 'em dead. He uses factory 200 gr. silvertips with no complaints. I have used the .356 win some and .35 Whelen a lot, good elk killers too.

I see you own a chronograph as well... I was thinking .38 special. You got me figured out. Flinch

Jeff O,

Nope! I loaned it to my pard and he didn't do any good.
I packed my old .270 and dumped a nice cow, though. I had to wait for 7 spike bulls to get out of the way before I could shoot her!!!
Twas feast or famin, this year!

I sure wish you hadn't gone and monkeyed with that TAC! Now I gotta go out an buy a can and see for myself.... The .204 likes W748, so no harm nor foul, I suppose.....

Ooops! Forgot to ask...

Jeff O, what's your TAC load?

BT53, 50 grains with the 225 Sierra, 51 grains with the 225 Partition. I wasn't working from a book, I was using JB's data, and I think that's a bit more powder than he was using so... work up to it etc etc.

IME, the Sierra is an excellent practice stand-in for the Partitions. Those Partitions are pushing $50/box!! I can't be flinging them around willy-nilly <g>. But they do fly the same out to 400 yards or so.

Having shot both rounds more than a little out to each round's maximum range (as defined by when it drops below 1800 fps) I can tell you that the flight ballistics are rather dramatically different between the two, at least the way I have my .338 set up.

There's not a high-BC bullet for .358, not a 225 anyway (and the 200's are flying ashtrays). The Partition and Sierra are about the best. Neither of them will hold 1800 fps to 400 yards, though they get close. Both move around in the wind pretty easily, with a .430 BC and 2500 fps starting velocity.

In contrast, the .338 tossing a 225-gn Accubond (BC = .550) at 2850 fps starting speed is one heck of a 600-yard cartridge.

The difference between the two at range is actually pretty dramatic.

You right about that Sierra 225. It shoots light out in my rifle.

I shot one elk with that bullet, a spike bull and I hit him a bit high as he was moving along. The bullet broke the spine and separated, leaving jacket and some core - it also left the bull in a pile right there. I liked that!

BTW: I had Leupold install the M1 on the 2.5x8 and it looks like a winner. Got lots of shooting to do when the sun come back....

Yeah, I've got a 5- shot group saved somewhere with the Sierra that's just one big ragged hole...

Sierra told me that the 225 was a little "hard" for .358; it was designed for .350 and Whelen speeds. I dunno about THAT but the Partition seems like a smarter solution so I've been using that. It sure kills deer dead!

Not only do .358" bullets from a .358 Win bounce off elk, most times they can't even get there.

Or your daddy's daddy is breaking out the 358 Sambar........aka 358 WSM.

Can't wait for mine to be done.

I forgot you were doing one of those. Who's doing it, Smokepole? Pac-Nor? What platform are you building it on?

I would like very much, to have a .358 WSM. A 7WSM and .358WSM Montana would be a great pair to have up in elk camp!

Don't know about elk, because drawing a tag in Michigan is like winning the Power Ball Lottery. But TAC is the way to go with the 358, BLR 20" 2452fps average for 10 shots 586ft. above sea level. Hornady 200gr. Federal GM215M primer, TAC 52gr. Whitetails, and a half dozen bears, pull the trigger, all that's left is the hard work.

Geez, I find that hard to believe. My 20" BLR gets only 2447 fps with TAC....... Dutch.

Dutch: You must only be at 550ft at sea level...... Heh heh!

Coyote and Dutch,

I had a straight-grip BLR in .358. Neat rifles! I currently have a pistol-grip one in .325 WSM. Love it.

Anyway I'll pass on something that really worked for me when I was running 200-gn bullets. Just promise to work this one up, big time, as it's waaay over book max. Anyway with 200's RL7 was just great for me; I could get 2650 fps but backed it down to around 2620 fps. This is a load I shot a lot of, at least 400 rounds, and got near-eternal brass life, round primers, just no signs of pressure whatsoever.

43 RL7
F210 primer
necked-up Winchester .308 brass
200-gn Hornady SP
2620 fps from my 20" M7

Then the other thing I wanted to mention was that Neil Jones of Neil Jones Custom Products will do trigger jobs on BLR's; not cheap, but mine is now just at 3 lbs. and clean.

Yup, Pacnor and it's on an M70 Stainless in a McMillan Hunter.

They have the reamer I take it?

How long a barrel did you go with?

I'm seeing green <grin>.

OOh that sounds painefull.

welsee

just trying for a stupid smile done know. kawi

Yup, it's on their list of wildcats, they have the reamer.

24" bbl. A couple other guys on here have gotten them, one from Pacnor. They got results that show 225s and 250s running with a .338 WM using R-17 and H4895, and good accuracy.

If they could retube my BLR (currently a .325), I'd be in obsession mode. It's a little light up front anyway for my tastes so a slightly heavier barrel would be fine...

Just as a reference point I'd GUESS that .358 WSM would work great from a 22" barrel. My two .325's are 24" and 22" and the 22" damn near keeps pace. A sample of one each isn't much, but there it is.

Hey I sprayed the dark olive base coat on my Montana stock yesterday, and have some pine needles drying by the woodstove!

That Krylon Camo paint sure is flat (not shiny +P).

FWIW, you don't need to dry the pine needles. As a matter of fact, if the needles are still attached at the base you can get a nice pattern using the clusters. On the barrel length, I'm thinking this one'll have a little kick to it so I won't mind the extra steel.

Makes sense, some weight up front will tame the bucking a bit <g>.

These are pine needles wet from rain; just thought water would be bad. Now that you mention it I'll pick some fresh "bundles" too. Also gonna try some fronds from one of our cedars. Fun stuff!

Cedars are good!!!!

Ferns, cedars, pine and fir and other denizens of the jungle, I've got a'plenty <g>.