Alaknak is light, and sythetic so they don't mold as easily - canvas is heavier and possibly better in the wind (noise).

Alaknak doesn't leak or require a second cover but retains moisture on the inside (it could drip in really high humidity) - Canvas - I don't know

Long term storage, and drying the tents out - I would think synthetic would be easer to maintain.

Alaknaks are easer to setup.

I'm hoping to hear from people who've owned or used both.

Spot

Humidity was a big problem with ours. But the biggest complaint i have is the way the wall and roof meet. When it snows, the snow builds up at the bottom of the roof and causes the upper part of the roof to sag.You have to the keep snow from pilling up
Its also a tough tent to keep warm when its real cold outside
might be a good early season tent.

Reminds me of the time that I was looking at an Alaknak tent that had been set up for a lion hunt in February by some friends. The old man was saying that it was a hell of a good tent but he noted that, "if it snows, one of us has to get up with the broom stick and knock the snow off the roof". His partner (who is his daughter) laughed and said, "One of us, that's my Indian name--as in "one of us" has to go and get the truck and meet us with the mules at such and such a place, or "one of us" has to go and get those two dogs that are back trailing!"

It's not a particularly good winter tent.

A good canvas tent works, this much I know.

I own both... For a quick weekend to a week, set the damn thing up and go, the Alaknak is your tent. For a week or two with a few guys, want something comfortable, the canvas wins out.

Both are good tents but they serve a different purpose. The Alaknak can be set up in the dark by yourself. The wall tent will usually take a few guys. In the Alaknak we usually sleep on the ground and the tent serves as nothing but a heated shelter. The wall tent is a home that a person could spend the winter in.

A place to sleep




or home, sweet, home...

wyoelk,

I think thats the best answer I've had yet, or at least one of the big components of the answer that was missing.

In that context a 9.5x9.5 or 12x12 would make a good couple day
jober to pack in up on top while having the big dog cotton wall tent down lower. Or you could use pup tents on the pack ins.



Spot

That was my name for a lotta years. We must have been twins separated at birth

Depending on the season, the colder and wetter it gets the more canvas will win.

To protect your investment, and make a better set, canvas should have a cheep plastic tarp spread out on the roof so snow will slip, and the plastic protects the roof from burning cinders of a campfire of if your stovepipe fire-screen looses one.

Wood heat in a canvas tent after a day hunting in a wet snow, drying gear and cooking meals, maintaining a toasty environment and canvas is worth every speck of extra work.

Even though the Alaknak is much lighter than a wall tent I wouldnt plan on packing it anywhere unless you have horses. A friend did once pack his up to where we backpack camp. He carried the thing up 1200 feet on his back. Some people have more muscle than brains.

So, is the biggest difference between the two types of tents the overall design or just the materials?

Though I've spent very little time in wall tents, that Alaknak, or one of that design, looks very easy to put up. I did spend a week in a Alaknak material tent (traditional design) in ID and we had just a few condensation problems. It would drip off the ridge pole. If you weren't the one sleeping under that it was no problem. But, I could see where having a floor could/would not be a good thing if you have condensation problems.

I have never slept in a synthetoc tent in that it did not rain inside. Put some propane heat in it and you have a rain forest.
Turn the heat off at night, and everything freezes. Then when you turn it back on in the AM,it rains again.Sure don't like getting dressed in the am in a humid, damp enviornment.Kinda sets the tone for the whole day

Canvas. I have silver locks and can put up an average wall tent with a frame by myself in about 20 minutes. It ain't tough, but it is a canvas cabin. You won''t regret it. You never know when conditions could make a place to sleep into a home, for a stretch.

Prezactly why I would never own one! My cousin HAD one that we used on an antelope hunt. Dripped from condensation and the thing flapped so bad from the wind that I spent the last two night in the truck sleeper! He returned it to Cabela's when we got back and went with Montana Canvas and never looked back.

I have a 12x12 Alaknak and I like it alot.
Like peole have said it is way easier to set up than a canvas tent. I haven't found it to be bad for condensation on the inside either. We usually have a fire going in the stove at night when we go to sleep, and with the design of the roof (theres no ridge)
any condensation would run down to the walls.

The best part of the Alaknak is what you get for the money.
When I bought mine in 2003 t was $600.00.
Thats for a tent with a floor, frame, windows. A canvas tent with all of those features would cost twice that.

I've slept in many canvas tents, and I cant tell any difference in one being warmer than another. Lets face it, when the fire goes out its cold.

I set my Alaknak up with a tarp just like a canvas tent. It eliminates the snow build up problem. I havent lost any sleep to the tent flapping in the wind. If its set up properly it shouldnt be a problem. Or maybe Im just damn tired when Im elk hunting

KC

I've never stayed in an Alaknak, but I've been in my share of synthetic material tents, big and little. We currently use a couple of Davis 14 X 16 tents for our camp.

Warm and dry weather it probably makes little difference in tent material selection. Where we hunt elk, we've seen temps from below zero to seventy, and it usually snows or rains (sometimes sideways!).

Canvas "breathes" and allows moisture to escape. A wood stove in a canvas tent will dry wet clothing and hunters surprisingly fast. Propane stoves and heaters seem to produce a lot of water vapor, I know guys that heat their canvas tents with it. Don't think that would work very well in a synthetic tent. We use propane to cook with as it's instant on and off.

Canvas can be purchased treated with a mildew preventative, it doesn't prevent mildew forever, but it buys enough time for you to pack up and get home to open up the tent to dry it out without ruining it. I have ropes and pulleys rigged to the trusses in my barn to hang our tents up. Just takes a few minutes when unpacking the trailer. When they're thoroughly dry after a few days, fold them up and they go in plastic 33 gal trash cans to keep the mice out.

I've heard of canvas tents lasting over twenty seasons. Obviously those are stored properly (dry).

My buddy bought an alakanak one year, this was the result




Canvas wall tent all the way, Alakanak is not that much lighter or easier to handle to make it worth while. Unless you only plan on dry summer camping.

With a internal frame kit a 12X14 wall tent goes up pretty easy with one person.

With out the internal frame kit you want two people to set up ridge poles etc. I have done it alone but it takes tying to trees staking guy lines and keeping re-adjusting as you pull it up to position.

I have slept in an Alanak tent when the day time weather was dry and pleasant. In the morning there was frost all over the inside of the tent and that made getting out of the sack miserable. I will never sleep in an Alanak tent again. But it was easy to setup, lightweight and compact.

I own a 15' x 20' canvas wall tent with an internal frame and a wood burning stove. I can set it up by myself with a lot of effort but it's a much easier with two people. I've never tried putting it up in the dark and I don't think I will try. I do not put a tarp over the roof and it has performed well in sub-zero temps and two feet of snow. Most of the time, it stays pretty warm using just the wood burning stove, but when temps drop below zero, we add a 22,000 BTU propane space heater on a 20# tank. It's great for drying out things at the end of the day without any condensation. I bought it used in 1992 and I had to perform some repairs. I have used it on ten elk hunts since then, each lasting a week, and it's still going strong.

When there are just two of us hunting and I want to setup a base camp, I use two double-wall dome tents; one for cooking and one for sleeping. We heat them with small propane space heaters. They are tall enough to stand up in. The dome tents are light (18#) and compact so they can be packed on a horse, they are easy to setup and moisture does not condense inside. They are not as big as an Alanak tent, that's why I use two of them. I think this strategy works better than a single-wall tent, like an Alanak.

Granted,not all days ar nasty, but when you are up against it and very survival depends on it. Canvas wall tents have proven themselves for many years.

The 1st photo we had to chain up all 4 and then chain two pick ups together just to pull empty goosenecks to safety.That was two trips.Then we ponied all the mules out for 10 miles or some behind the pick ups to get everything out.Snow evertually was 4 ft +deep. Packed down to 2 ft on the road

During the storm in the 2nd photo,we had to bring two mules inside the tent it was so bad.

If you are confident of your tent,have enough wood cut or have enough propane,you can ride out the storm. You will never have elk hunting as good as when the storm blows out,the sun comes out, it's about 10 degrees and the elk come out feeding after being holed up too.

It's just water, it wont kill you, you even need it to live.....

I agree with you and I will take my wall tent over the Alaknak most days. For long weekends or trips with the wife, the Alaknak wins out. Less chance for divorce....

Yep,if the water happens to be under her sleeping bag, on it,or even on the side the wife is on,it could be fatal

That is one of my favorite times hunting, when the storm blows in and everyone packs up and leaves, I stay then when the storm is over you have the mountain to yourself and animals all over.

Funny story;
Storm blew in everyone packed up and left, I stayed and hunted Elk came right out like I wasn't even there. Enjoyed another full day of relaxing after, then headed out Monarch pass was still closed so I drove over saguache pass, when I got home I found out the guys that left ahead of me were still in gunnison, they jacknifed trying to get all the gear out tore some stuff up and stayed in the motel in gunnison till monarch opened up.

We stayed in our 12x12 Alaknak last December for a week or so in rain, snow, and sleet. We kept the stove going at night and kept the small vents open, like it says to. I also have the vestibule, and left the muddy and wet stuff out in that, and got no condensation whatsoever. If you put your muddy and soaked stuff inside, you're probably more likely to get some condensation. It also was dry and ready to put away at the end of the hunt due to the storm breaking and getting a little sun. Anything cotton or canvas was still SOAKED. I have one and like it, don't think I'd have a canvas one again for my purposes. I don't have to take out the synthetic to dry after I get home either, since it's usually dry when I put it away. FWIW. You pays your money and makes your choice.

Ours probably wouldn't have been so bad but we had snow and all we used for heat was propane (not my choice) Johnny brought a apartment wall heater with thermostat, and as you can see the whole kitchen stove. I think if you use only wood heat and keep it toasty you probably wouldn't have a drop of condensation. But It would take a lot more wood becuase the thinner material is a lot harder to keep warm on the cold days.

A few years back we got caught in a mess and the entire mountain was pulling up stakes and leaving. I suggested we stay, one guy just had to go home. He ended up trashing his Jeep, rolled it off the trailer that he jacked into his truck, ruined his truck bed, and blew the front pinion gear in half on his truck. All in all it was around seven grand in repairs. We ended up leaving his Jeep and went back to get it a few days later. Drove right in with no trouble. Two days in a wall tent loaded with wood, a bottle of Jack and a few cases of beer would have been just frigging tragic!

Based on the posts thus far, I'm guessing a canvas Alaknak-style tent would be hard to beat??

pointer:

That's called a GP small. You can buy them at most army surplus stores.

Check out this website.

http://www.calarmy.com/tents/index.html

KC

pointer, another option........

http://davistent.com/html/HerderTent.html


Most tent outfits make some kinda range tipi or sheepherder tent.........

huntsman:

That does look like a good option. I wonder how much it weighs. The GP Small weighs 186#. If the Herder Tent weighs substantially less than a GP Small, then I would go with the Herder. Davis Tent & Awning has a good reputation.

KC

About milsurp tents: if they're lined, they're warmer and reflect lantern light much better. But they're also much heavier. If they're not lined, they're like a tomb. That's a problem with OD color. They're usually very well made, though. Almost indestructible - except to mice.

Thanks for the tips fellas. The company that I assume makes the Alaknak (Montana Canvas) also offers all canvas and canvas/relite blends as well.

KC- The ones offered by MT canvase weigh a lot less than 186#.

I believe Leonard at Buckstitch Canvas in Cody will make his 12'x12'x5' spike tent with a Sunforger canvas roof and Li-Tent (Relite) sidewalls.
Buckstich 5' sidewall spike tents

I'd also look into the Kodiak or Yellowstone by Reliable Tent and Tipi.
Reliable Tent Kodiak
Reliable Tent Yellowstone

After a year of research I went with the big Alaknak for our camp in Kentucky. As others have pointed out there are plusses and minuses.

Plusses
- Much smaller and lighter than a similar canvas tent. Mine is the 12'x20' with the additional vestibule and the extra floor liner. It folds up into a bag approx 5'x2' and can be handled by one person.
- Dries quickly and if you have to put it away wet for 48 hours it won't be destroyed.
- I paired mine with an Outfitter sized cylinder stove. It keeps it warm and dry down to the 20's we experience in camp in SE KY. Usually someone has to shove some wood in about 0400 before you roll out of the rack. Inside temp at that point is in the low fourties.
With the wood stove there are zero moisture problems. U
- It vents very well in warm weather. Eight windows and two doors allows for good flow and regulation. Four of the windows have a very slick arrangement with "dormers" that hang on the side pole guys that allows it to rain and blow but you can keep the windows open with no water intrusion.
- Easy to put up. I put it up myself in about an hour including the alcove and the stove. Most of that is pounding in stakes for guy wires. The realizing I set them too close and having to move them
-It's sturdy. We've had it out in winds up in the fourties and no issues at all, wasn't particularly noisy we thought (and rain sounds great!)
- It's significantly less expensive than any comparable wall tent of that size.

Minuses
- It's not a classic canvas tent. Yes, we're all romantics at heart.
- The door zippers are a pain and I need to come up with an alternative.

Other than that very pleased with ours and really looking forward to camp again this year. Here's a few pics.


The vestibule end. We need to get a roll of indoor outdoor carpet for it to keep from tracking a ton of dirt in.



Inside you can see the stove set up. Worked awesome for four guys and tons of gear. If you were neater and stowed cots during the day no doubt it would work for six.

Looking the other way towards the vestibule.

I know all too well how much you researched your purchase,Allen. I think much of the decision is based on geograpghy. For camping east of the Mississippi in the US, the Alaknak econimically and efficiently meets the need. It's a superb tent,I believe, and there's a reason it's a top 3 seller. For the gentlemen dealing with the possibilty of huge snow storms and prevailing strong winds, I understand the desire to go with canvas but, should you read the multitude of user reviews on the Alaknak, it seems to more than adequately meet the needs of the western hunters/campers, as well.

Alaknak 12 x 20 for me.

I stayed in a 12x12 Alaknak in New Mexico on an elk hunt, Late November into December. It wasn't my tent, so I wouldn't light the wood stove while the owner wasn't there, due to I don't have the funds to replace it if it were to get any damage. So I heated it with a small propane cat heater. No problems with condensation, vents stayed open the whole time, no wet/muddy boots or rain gear in the main part of the tent (left them in the vestibule).

Rain, Snow, Sleet, Wind, Easy ups had to come down because they were collapsing from the amount of snow on them. Broke some lines that were holding the tarps up. The Alaknak held strong threw the whole ordeal. When the owner of the tent showed up, the wood stove was used for heat instead of the propane. Still no problems with condensation, and was warm enough in the tent at most times that I had to sleep on top of the sleeping bags instead of in them.

I also spent a fair amount of time in a GP small / GP medium while I was in that Army. Thing was a pain to put up, and had a lot of issues when them if they got wet.

I plan on buying a 12x20 Alaknak in the near future for my New Mexico / Arizona hunting endeavors. Which brings me to a question for Pugs.

Is it possible to put vestibules on both ends of the 12x20?

If you don't mind me answering, I believe the answer is yes. From the Cabela's "reviews" in the vestibule section, I found this:
++++++++++++++++++++++


"As if you need more space with the 12x20 Alaknak...
After 4 camp outs with my 12x20, I finally was able to use my Vestibule and wish I would have used it earlier. I found it perfect for my folding camp kitchen table and all of my gear that I did not want to stow inside the sleeping area (chairs, Zodi Shower, stove, etc). The ground tabs are color coded (Blue) and the attachment mechanisms are fine quality and work well. The zipper down mesh windows were great when I cooked in the vestibule. The poles spring together, no fuss. The front flap was a nice porch cover that I used two poles to secure out from the vestibule when the weather was nice. A little practice at putting it together will make you an expert. Here's where it payed off - the last day of camp was pouring cold rain and dark. While breaking camp, we took all our gear, cots, equipment, stow bins and stowed it in the vestibule and brought down the tent and allowed the vestibule to free stand, keeping our gear dry until we could back the truck in and load. We didn't lose a thing, it was all in one place - NICE. I want another one to add to the other end of the tent to make this a 3 room monster. People love to take tours already in the thing, mind as well add another room. Don't put a wood stove in it though, use the Big Buddy with a propane tank, Toasty. Cheers!"

Yep, as Bob found on the Cabelas site you can put them at both ends if you want. We used the vestibule end as our primary exit and entrance and had a cot and the woodpile at the normal end.

Alright, I had read that on Cabela's before as well, and was pretty sure that you could. I just wanted to confirm with someone who had a 12x20. Thanks to Isaac and Pugs. I appreciate the info.