.338 Win + 210gr Swift Scirocco II + ELK....

I know, I have seen the pic where a member tried to cross section one of these bullets and found a small air void in the core, but something keeps telling me that was a statistical fluke and he hit the lottery. Besides, any manufacturer can put out a flaw.

So my question is: Among the many other bullet combonations, is there any reason this combo won't work?

Use the TTSX and rock on . . .

I don't care to use anything that Barnes puts out...thanks for not answering the question though

Isn't that why one should weigh all their bullets before loading? Easy to spot those bad ones.

I use the 180 Scirocco IIs in my .300 Wby and have found them to both be very accurate and deadly on elk. When I run through the 225 A-Frames that I have loaded up, I will probably try the 210 Scirocco IIs in my .338 Win Mag. I expect them to perform just fine. I have a couple of boxes waiting...

this is just my opinion, if i'm going to shoot my 338 i want to use a heavier bullet than a 210 grainer.

I like 200s in my 06 and 300 win.

I know the 210 Scirocco IIs shoot very well in my 338-06. No experience on game though (yet). I would also like to try the SC II on a 338 Federal.

I have been using the .338 since it came on the market some years back..I have used most of the bullets that are out there including the Sirocco and found to be a good bullet on African plains game..

I setteled many years ago on two bullets in the .338 win. and that is the 210 Nosler and the 300 gr. Woodleigh, depending on what and where I am hunting...I reserve the 300 gr. Woodleigh to thick timber elk and Africa, everything else is shot with the 210 Nosler at 3005 FPS..It is the perfect cross canyon elk bullet IMO.

" I prefer the 200 gr. bullets in my 300 H&H and have used them for years regulating the 180s to my 30-06...

The only real difference I can see is taking a raking shot or a frontal shot on large animals such as elk in the timber, that is where the 200 gr. bullets shine..I shot through a 2200 lb. Eland bull with a 200 gr. Nosler in one end and out the other, the PHs 30-06 can't do that with a 180 gr. bullet of any make, according to him, but will on ocassion do it with some of the 200 gr. bullets..

I suppose the bottom line is the 200 will give you more penetration, just like it was designed to do, and that's why is there for you..Is the difference worth it to you, I don't know, that's for you to decide, but it is to me."
_________________________
Ray Atkinson
http://www.atkinsonhunting.com
[email protected]



Ray, I am curious as to why you prefer a 200 grain bullet in a 30 cal magnum but only a 210 in a .338. What benifet would you get from a 338 if you do'nt use a heavier bullet?

Dan

No.

I use the Scirocco II's in my 300 RUM (180 grain).
They kill elk just fine!

I thought the main advantage of 338 was the ability to shoot better, heavier bullets. 210 seems light.
However, I don;t see why it would not work? 200 and less work wonderfully in lighter calibers. 210 will too in 338.
Now, why a prejudice against Barnes?
I personally don't care who makes a bullet as long as it is well made. And I don't think that I'd write off a bullet with an air void. I don;t think that an elk hit 1" to the left or right with it would know it had an air void.

I had a conversation with Bill at Swift last week about the 210 338 bullet. My desires are for the 338 RUM for elk. He stated that is what the bullet is made for, is elk. It will break bone and continue on. Load it off the lands and build the load looking for accuracy sweet spot. He stated the 338 is stouter than even the 180 300 bullet, which we all know works well on elk. I believe it to be a great match for elk huning, but will test it this fall myself. I plan on dropping a bull and cow this year, so time will tell.

+1

The 225-gn Accubond is a wonderful, wonderful bullet for the .338 Win Mag.

Damm near perfect combo, I'd say. I'm more familiar with the 210 Nosler PT, and I've taken a moose, caribou, black bear, grizzly, and an elk with mine. With the right load (I hoard H205 powder), I can crowd 3000 fps. The .338/210 combo has been one of my favorites from over 40 years of big game hunting. Go for it.....

My Ruger 338 pushed Nosler 210's at 2900, but would not push a 250 at over 2550, as I stepped up the load from 68gr of 4350 to 69 to 70 to 70.5 Primers started to really flatten so I stopped and went back to 69. Then, they came out with the 225 partition. My gun loved it. 70.5 gr of 4350 at 2830fps with 1/2 inch groups not uncommon, always 1 inch or less. I loaded 40 bullets in 1992 and finally ran out in 2005. Took 6 elk in 10 years with it, before going to a synthetic 300 Win. Still take the 338 as a backup, but it weighs 9 1/2 lbs full up compared to 8 1/4 for the 300 Classic Stainless. All in all, that 225 NP was the best load I ever worked up, and beats the 210 at all ranges over 100 yards. Now I shoot the 30 cal 200 gr NP in the Federal HiEnergy Premium load (no longer mfd), and it kills just as well. The 225 was more fun, though, because I did it myself. Have fun with your efforts.

I have used the 210 NP from 338s and 340s to kill several bulls. The 210 has excellent sectional density @.263 and the scricco has excellent B.C @ .505
Dober will say it is ballistic GACK however those numbers do mean something.
The speed is up, the weight is there and they do wonders on ELK sized critters.
For the first year ever I have opted to try 225s ABs but I have some 210 NPs loaded up as well.
I have gotten rid of all my .308 based rifles and now hunt Elk with .338s and .375 reason is the 340wby just puts em down. I have not killed anything with the .375 as yet but all reasoning says it will perform at least as well as the 338s
I do not have the same confidence with the 30 cal rounds I have used in the past.
I think you will find the 210s a great choice for your 338

I also own a 338wm I bought as a dedicated elk round. I was blessed as it seems to shoot every reload I have fed it accurately enough for hunting, some reloads are darn right scary accurate.

I am especialy lucky that it loves both 225grn Nosler Partitions and the newer 225grn Nosler Accubonds. I have taken bulls with both loads and in all honesty I could not determine which killed elk better. Both bulls went down with in sight.

I chose to try and use the 225grn Accubond as I am of the opinion (although I admit it is only my opinion with no solid evidence to back it up) that a bullet who's design is not devided into sectiones like the Partition MIGHT just MIGHT be more accurate, and less suseptable to being finiky. The Accubond as we all know does not contain a devision and its internal core is one continuis core.

As it turns out my gun shoots Accubonds SLIGHTLY more accurate than Partitions. I came to this conclusion after shooting 10 three shot groups of each at 200yrds.

As my M700 loves RL-19 I worked up loads with RL-19 in 1/2 grain incriments.
I shot the fallowing loads during development:
<>72.5/73.0/73.5/74.0/74.5/75./75.5/76.0/76.5/77.0 grains.

All above charge weights resulted in more than acceptable hunting accuracy with no 3-shot 100yrd groups going over 2.0"
But this load combo realy started to shine once I shot loads using charge weights at and above 74 grains of RL-19, and broke the MOA threshold at 75.5 grains. I experienced no significant increase in accuracy above 75.5 grains, so I settled for the fallowing load:

<>75.5 grains of RL-19
<>225 grain Nosler Accubond
<>Federal #215 Magnum large rifle primer
<>Winchester new never fired brass neck sized only.
<>I also seat my bullets about 6-thousands off the lands, as that is as long as I can make my loaded rounds and they still fit and function flawlessly.
I'm guessing here, but I would place my MV at around 2850-2950 fps.

I strongly suspected (and again this is strictly my opinion) that this load of 75.5 grains of RL-19 is so accurate (sub MOA infact)because it is moderatly compressed. Once I felt this might be the case I went over all my reloading notes of my most accurate loads shot with my 338wm, and shure enough without exception all of my most accurate loads were with compresed loads of powders.

This load is so accurate that I promptly went back to where I bought the powder and bought all they had in that lot#
Thankfuly I have 1000 pieces of the same lot# of Win/brass and around 5000 of the same lot# of primers. As I only have 300 of the same lot# of bullets, I will use them for hunting only.

While on my last elk trip to WY, I was shooting out to 400yrds and while using a large rock as a rest I was able to hit a empty Colmen fuel can at will. Learned a important lesson while doing so. Dont place a fuel can against a large rock for a back stop with out making damn sure it wont move once shot, at 400 yards unless you want to have a half mile walk round trip to stand it back up after you hit it the first time.

I still have that can as a trophy of sorts.

I can't answer about the 210 Swift, but I can unequivocally say that the 210 Partition works well on elk (good grief, how could it NOT).

A 210 is all that's really needed on any normal BG and the extra velocity of a 210 over heavier bullets does indeed seem to make more of an impression, theoretical "advantages" of the heavier bullets aside.

War Eagle........answer is NO!!!

Now my favorite big game caliber is the .338, I have several in various configurations and a wildcat or two as well. In the .338 Win mag I favor the 225 grain Trophy Bonded Bear Claw for bull elk and for mule deer I like the 210 grn Nosler Partition. I tried a 180 grain once upon a time but it just was not that accurate in my rifle.

I also like the 225 grn Nosler Accubond in my wildcat .338/300 Ultra Mag for bull elk. It is very very accurate, "kicks like a mule". It holds about 5 more grains of powder than the .300 Ultra mag case.

I also have used those Swift A Frames and like them a lot too! However, they were not as accurate as the Nosler Accubond in my rifles. You will find that it is what ever your rifle likes the best and how that particular bullet holds up and performs for you in your rifle, that is the most important issue.

Personally, I can't see stoking a 338 with different bullets for different game as any advantage of one over another is mostly theoretical...

One of the reasons I like the 210 Nosler is that it will out penetrate the 250 gr. Nosler, why that is I have no clue other than its going much faster..I know it ain't supposed to be that way but it am!

One of the reasons I like the 210 Nosler is that it will out penetrate the 250 gr. Nosler, why that is I have no clue other than its going much faster, or the cross section at full expansion is less and several other factors could come into play....I know it ain't supposed to be that way as a rule but it is a fact.

One of the reasons I like the 210 Nosler is that it will out penetrate the 250 gr. Nosler, why that is I have no clue other than its going much faster, or the cross section at full expansion is less and several other factors could come into play....I know it ain't supposed to be that way as a rule but it is a fact, at least in flesh.

Ray, are you sure you like the 210's

I suspect the guys that recommend the 210 grain bullets in the .338 are recoil sensitive, IMHO i can see no advantage to the 210 .338 vs. a 200 grain .308.(speaking partitions in each) The .308 has a higher b.c. to boot.A 200 grain .308 cal can be driven just as fast or faster in most 30 cal. magnums

Wrong. I went to the 210 early on because it shot better in my rifle than the 225 and 250... like I said, it kills out of proportion to its numbers and those of use that have actually used it know that's the case while those that haven't only have theories to fall back on...

So Brad, Why is it you dont shoot a .338 anymore? Just curious.

I prefer light rifles and a 338 WM and "light" don't mix... all of my 338's were between 8.5 and 9 lbs. My idea of "light" is sub 7.5 lbs all-up...

you could get a Kimber Montana in a 338! LMAO!!

The Kimber 338 WM MT goeas arounf 8lbs all-up. Also, the bbl. is too thin for a 338 WM I'd want.

Yeah thats me, "recoil sensitive".That why I shoot a 7.5 lbs 340 and the same weight .375 H&H I shoot 260 gr. and 300 gr. from the .375
210s from a 338 Have 10% more frontal area than a .308 cal. Bullet. a 308 has some work to do just to expand to .338.
I suspect the guys who do not like 210s just have not used them and like to call others recoil sensitive.
I shoot 210 NPs chronyed from my 340 wbys close to 3200 fps (83gr. IMR 4350) You will hard pressed to get that from a .308 200 gr. bullet short of a 30-378 Weatherby and then you would be pushing it. You ain't going to get there with a short mag that is for sure.
I agree with your statement with the 338 win mag as far as velocity but not as far as caliber advantage.
I see no advantage to a 30 caliber in any cartidge over a .338. I have seen Elk just stand there and take it from a 30-06,300 win mag.
I have not seen that with the 338s Granted I have no experience with the smaller 338s like 338 federal or 338-06 but I would expect that the performance on game would be much better than their 308 sisters or brothers.
I agree that if you are using a 308 caliber the 200 grain NP is a smart bullet choice.
If you are using a 338 cal rifle for Elk hunting the 210 is a good choice regardless of what you might think. The Elk on my wall and freezer tell the story.
The 250 gr. (which I also load) would be a better choice for Brown Bear on this continent. Make no mistake I would not have a seconds hesitation shooting a Brown Bear with a 210 Nosler Partiton from one of my 340s or .338s
As Ray said the 210s have demonstrated excellent penetration in all cases (including both front shoulders)that I have used them. In all cases complete penetration and usually leaving a exit hole the size of a copenhagen can. I have also experienced less meat damage from bloodshot than from animals shot with the 30s 7mms and 270s
I see no need to move up to a 250 gr. bullet unless the game might bite back.
I have not recovered a 210 I use 210 in 338s because they just work. They have for me every time.

I am in no way saying a 210 grain bullet in the .338 is not a good bullet. The 225 grainers and heavier have a higher ballisic coeffiant and retain more energy. I'm just saying a heavier bullet gets the job done better!

This is just my opinion. By the way. I have killed a few elk with a 338

The 210 has the right combination of velocity and frontal area (from a 338 WM) to make an impression on Big BG. They shoot flat and kill out of proportion to no's armchair experts would think...

So whats up with the recoil sensitive comment. I never said you had not killed any Elk I said you probably had not tried the 210s
I have developed a 225 AB (r22) load that works good and will try them this season.
I also have a bunch of 210s that will be there they only shoot one inch difference POI & 200 yards through the Encore.

I dont see the advantage to the lighter wieght bullet other than less recoil. JMO

More velocity coupled with the 338's frontal area makes for dramatic kills.

No guessing here...

Must be the old dog new trick deal.
You got three guys I would guess probably at least 100 yrs combined experience telling you that this paticular combination works better than promised and you can't see it.
I guess thats reasonable.
In this case how does a heavier bullet help me as an Elk Hunter?
Not as a shooter but as far as terminal performance on the animal? I am going to hit the animal regardless, because I am going to shoot the heck out it. Measure powder,speed, to get a snapshot of what that bullet is doing once it leaves the end of the barrel. the 210 partitons and the 225 ABs are virtually the same out to 500 yards. The Higher BC making up for the difference in velocity at the muzzle. The 225 will pass the 210 at somewhere around 450 yards. There is an inch difference in point of impact @ 500 and 600 yards when sighted in at 200 yard zero. Since the 225 is going slower out to 450 the difference in retained enrgy is negligable.
Those numbers are based on 340 Wby.(I did this reseach a while back) 3200 FPS for the 210 NP and 3000 for the 225 AB.
There is no clear advantage for the heavier bullet at reasonble and ethical ranges. It is a wives tale. Although on .308 calibers the heavier bullet is always a better choice.
Since the original question was asking about a Swift Scirroco the BC is .510 not as "clean" as the 225 accubond @.550 but not as "Dirty" as the 210 Partiton @.400 fitting somewhere between the two. They should be fine....
Dober would say
"Sounds like ballistic GACK!"

A 225 or 250 would have even more frontal area!!!!

outweighed by the difference in velocity.
You are splitting hairs!
the bullet goes from zero to .338
The difference in bullet weight is mostly comprised from overall length. not all in front. We are talking about 15 grs. here
not .oo to .308
or .00 to .284
or .00 to .277

and speed only kills??? What about FT. LBS. of enery??

I have had nothing but stellar performance from the 210gr Part out of my Win Mag. That said, there's a lot to like about the Sirrocco and I'm thinking of giving them a whirl next year. The story from the guy in AK shooting a .308 200gr, IIRC, lengthwise through a brown bear made me think the 210gr .338 would work for anything I'd point it at...

Cowkiller, I'm not suggesting a 210 grain bullet wont kill. Its just my opinion that if your going to shoot a .338 you might as well take full advantage of the caliber, velocity and speed

338 rcm,
That is what I am trying to explain to you. There is not an advantage to the heavier bullet until you get WaaaaY OUT THERE!
The 225 and 210 are 15 grains apart so the higher bc of the heavier bullet allows it to travel faster and "scrub" less speed. The lighter bullet starts off faster with more energy at reasonble ranges.
At 400 yards the 2 bullets are traveling within 10 fps of each other! These 2 particular bullets cross paths at somewhere around 425-450 yards and then stay together for the rest of the ride home. flying only 1" apart at 600 yards.

the 225 gr.starts at 3000 fps is traveling 2043 fps @ 600 yards
4496 ft# energy at the muzzle and 1954ft# energy at 600 yards


the 210 starts at 3200fps is traveling 1892 fps @ 600 yards
4774 ft# of energy @ muzzle and 1683 ft# energy @ 600 yards

The 250 is a penetrator not a flyer but...
Started at 2800 fps and 1764 fps @ 600 yards
it would be 11" lower at 600 yards and starting with 4352ft#s
carrying 1604 ft # energy to 600 yards
again No real advantage for the heavier bullet

The 338 win mag does not have the case capacity to drive a 210 gr. bullet much beyond 3000 fps. But it makes up for it in the heavier bullets getting closer to but not reaching 340 weatherby velocities. The 210 is a "sleeper" for the wby

There is not a nickels worth of difference between the two bullets to take advantage of as far as the Caliber,Velocity and speed.
I do know this... a 210 Nosler partiton screaming out of a 340 weatherby at near Varmint rifle velocities makes for Dramatic Effects on Elk sized animals at under 300 yards.This is where most of the shootin is done.
The bullet starts out MUCH faster(more velocity and more energy)
than the 225gr. or 250 gr. (which are no slouches) and pretty much stays with it out to 600+ yards
The differences in these two bullets are parallel in the 338 win mag it just happens closer, like at 350 yards instead of 450 yards as with the weatherby

Tell me again How I am not taking full advangtage of the caliber,velocity and speed.

The 210 Scirroco does indeed look to have alot to offer.
Oh by the way Swift does not make the Scirroco in a .338 caliber 225gr or 250gr.

I've used a 340 to fill an ark or two, have worn out a couple of Schneider tubes chambered to the cal so I'd guess you could say that I'm a bit of a 33 fan.

I've generally gravited to the 250, though I've used the 225 and 210 and 200's as well. My reasoning for going with the 250 is purely accuracy, I've just had better luck in getting the heavier slugs to shoot the way I want (note I didn't say the way I need).

With the 210 Noz I shot pretty much end to end on a big cow @ 450 yds so I'd say I can get adequate penetration with it. As much as I like the 210 it's been one bullet for a 33 that I have to work with a bit to get the kind of accuracy I want.

Now I can really like the 200 NBT and have used it a fair bit as well and would have no problemo hunting elk the rest of my life with it in any 33.

Rambling a bit here I know but I just don't feel it makes much difference which slug you use. I'm a member of the 50/50 elk club and can only say that I feel it's gonna take seeing a lot more elk killed with the 210 to 250's than I'm ever gonna live to see killed to say that one or the other kills better.

Dober

Dober I know it was painful for you to read all the "Gack"
I got a box of those 200gr. ballistic tips I have not loaded em up yet because I am trying out the accubonds. I guess I will give em a whirl. I going to go make some noise with the new 340 tomorrow. only 35 more shopping days till Elk season!

There is no difference in frontal area with different weight bullets of the same caliber.
So you know the frontal areas are...
.308 cal. frontal area .0745
.338 Cal. frontal area .0897
.375 Cal. frontal area .1104
.416 Cal. frontal area .1359
You had me there for a minute I had to look it up.

Boy is this elk going to feel silly when it learns that a 210 gr .338 bullet was too light.

I simply am at a loss why any hunter ever gives recoil a second thought while hunting. From the bench i can understand a LITTLE concern, but not that much. 338wm does not kick any worce than a 300wm or any other .308 magnum.

I can understand wanting to hunt with a lightor rifle and I myself am going to buy a T3 just for that perpose, but I will still going to get it in no caliber lighter than 300wsm or 325wsm. If the 338wm version is only a 0z hevior I will get that. Im not bragging or BSing, but rifle recoil has never been a problem for me. But I should add I cut my hunting teeth on shooting 1.25 and 1.0oz 12ga Magnum slugs goind btwn 1400-1600 fps and worst of all out of a 7lb 870, so shooting a 338wm with a well designed stock and good recoil pad is like a vacation compaired to slugs.

IMHO when it comes to elk a animal that has a bone structure that is simply huge, and elk are legendary in being often at times hard to anchor, I feel no caliber is a better all around choice than a 338wm. Superb knock down power, excellent easy to acheive accuracy, great velocity, and moderate recoil.

I have seen three elk hit with 300wm and 180grn bullets and three hit with 338wm and 225grn bullets, I will stick with my 338wm. and 225grn bullets, no offence ment. All were well placed solid hits.

I have said this more times than I can remember, when it comes to killing big bull elk there is absolutely no advantage in using calibers such as 270, 280, 30/06 and so on VS a 338wm as there is nothing they can do a 338 will not do better. Or as i also like to say, there is nothing a 270 can a 338wm also can not do, but there are lots of things a 338 can do a 270 and smaller calibers can not.