I'm making my first Elk hunt next fall in CO. I have a Remington model 700 .30-06 and am really comfortable with it but I hear that .30-06 is just barely enough for a large bodied animal. I plan on making other hunting trips for big game in the future so, I want to pick up a new rifle.

I'm considering .300 wsm .300 win or 7mm mag. The model 700 is nice but I like the Weatherby Mark V. However, it comes in .300 win and 7mm. Alternatively, the Vanguard sub moa comes in .300wsm and is about $800 less. I like the additional features of the mark v especially free floating barrel but I think the short magnums have more punch and less recoil.

So, if anyone has anything to offer/ field experience with either the vanguard, mark V or these calibers - I'd really appreciate it.

Spend the money on a Leupold VX-3, a nice handle for your 700, and go kill an elk.

May want to get a gym membership while your at it, although I don't know much about your shape.

Many guys swear by the trusty old 06. I know many that have used it religiously in AK on everything. It gets the job done. I think it would be fine for elk.

I love 300 winnies...used them on everything from deer, sheep and grizzlies. Great caliber, ammo readily avail in a pinch, 30 cal...what more to ask for. I have 2!

I have heard good and bad about the WSMs...but don't need a new caliber just b/c its the new buzz thing. The 300 win and the 06 flat out get it done. Either would be fine for elk. Long distance, open field shooting...7mm is hard to beat....but I just love 300 winnies!

A 30-06 is plenty for elk, heck its plenty for Eland, and those weigh in at about a ton. The Average Rocky Mt Elk Bull might go 500 to 700 lbs on the hoof. Spend your money on shooting. Now if its keeping you awake at night, I would look at a 338 Winchester Mag. 7mm Remington or the 300 WSM don't give you a whole lot more than a .30-06, most of it is just on paper. I shoot a 7mm RM most of the time these days, along with a 338 Winchester. When its all said and done, a 30-06 would serve me just as well. All you need to do is put a good bullet in the right spot. Also for low lander like me, a rifle that weights a couple of pounds less makes a lot of sense. The hard part of elk hunting is not what you shoot, is finding one to shoot, followed by packing it out. Unlike Eastern Deer hunting, its huge land area's you can walk for miles and then some. You might luck out and catch a bull in the open, more like it you will be in the Lodge Poles and a long shot might be 60 yards.

Can't go wrong with any of those but you may be losing ground with the new rifle. All of those perform about like a 30-06 so I would want either something more powerful or significantly lighter with lighter being much more important.

A Good load with a premium bullet in the 06 is hard to beat. I would think about getting a light weight stock and a good scope maybe a 4x or 6x or low powered variable. Next get a really good pair of boots and binos. Then go jogging in the new boots with a back pack on. You will be far better prepared than with a flashy new gun that you aren't 100% familiar with.

get you some 180gr tbbc's or partitions and take that 06' elk hunting. heck, i've a friend in missoula, mt who has killed 22-23 elk with a 308 and corelokts. what is important is putting a good bullet in the right spot (and if you do your part the 06' will never let you down). forget thinking you need another rifle, because you don't! now "want" is a different animal.

An '06 is PLENTY for elk. I've shot clean through elk many times with good 165- and 180- gr. bullets, at distances from 40 yards to 300 yards. The longest any elk travelled after being shot was about 80 yards, and that was a bull that my son shot with a .308 and 180-gr. Partitions.

But if you really want a new gun, going on an elk hunt is as good an excuse as any, just don't expect it to put the elk down any faster... unless you're going to a 375 H&H.

Premium bullets have made better killers of standard calibers, like using an '06 on elk. Still, I am one those guys that, when measuring the balance, would rather err on the slightly heavier side. I consider elk big enough, tough enough and often found in places rugged enough that I like the idea of whatever little extra a bit more oomph could provide.

First, I think gmsemel is absolutely right that if you've got an '06 already the move up to the calibers you list really is a fairly small step. I mean, it's there, but if you want to step up I'd strongly recommend going ahead and getting a mid-bore. This could be a .338/06 or a .35 Whelen (.338 Fed?) on the "lower" end. By lower I mean you'd be dealing with less recoil and be giving up some velocity for longer shots if that's important to you.

IF you don't have recoil issues I'm a fan of the faster .33's like the .338 WM or what I have (and something that sounds as though you'd like) a Wby MKV .340. Insanely versatile cartridge. With it's favorite 210gr load it's as flat as my 7mag's favorite 150gr load or it can be loaded up to .275gr A-Frames for...whatever. The Winchester is really the same thing that just hasn't put in quite as much time at the gym buffing up.

Sve your money and get a gym membership to get in shape and a new pair of boots for all of the waliking you'll do!

Save your money and get a gym membership to get in shape and a new pair of boots for all of the walking you'll do!
Dang spell check is good!

...................You`re hearing that the 30-06 is barely large enough for elk???? Then ask the person or persons who are telling you that, to chip in and buy you a new rifle with "THEIR" money!!!!! Maybe they feel your scope is in-sufficient too??? Throw a new scope in too!!! Did they also say how close you need to be to take an elk with a 30-06? This is a plain case of some un-intentional bad advice.

A 180 gr bullet moving from the muzzle at 2700-2800 fps from a 30-06, is enough to down a big bull elk at 400 yards. It doesn`t matter whether that same bullet is moving at 3000, 3200, 4000, or even 5000 fps from a 300 super mag!! Regardless, you must still do your part, know your bullet`s velocity, BC, trajectory and properly place that first shot. Higher downrange velocity and energy #s on paper are just that,,,#s ON PAPER! Besides that, most kill shot distances for elk average within 400 yards anyway.

The vitals in an elk, which need to be shocked and disrupted, are located in the center of the animal, not in the next county over. Go use your 30-06.

If you really have the itch for a new rifle, better advice would be to diversify a little with another caliber that you don`t have.

As an add on to my last post, here`s a little something for you to write down, keep in your wallet and pull out the next time someone advises you that a 30-06 is barely enough for elk.

A 180 gr Nosler A/B (BC of .507) with a MV at say 2800 fps has the following downrange velocity and energy #s.

At 400 yards...............2124 fps.......1802 ft lbs
At 500 yards...............1971 fps.......1552 ft lbs

Ask them!!! "So these #s aren`t enough oooomph for elk with a properly placed shot"???

If they say no, they`re idiots!

nobody said the '06 couldn't be used they just said it would be the minimum....which bothered me to hear since i bought the '06 with a hunt like this in mind

this is getting off the which weatherby topic but for those of you who responded - the 700 has a Nikon buckmaster 4-12 x 50 mounted and most of my shots are 200 or less.... i do have a cheapo rangefinder i use for bow...with all this support for going with the '06...maybe I can get a Zeiss Rapid Z 600 to feel better at longer ranges

thanks again for all your advice...i have been using winchester 168gr bst and have been hoping to use xp3 180gr but just haven't gotten out with all the work and domestic chores i've been saddled with....

now you're talkin'...that bullet hits 300yds with 3,000 ftlbs...I'm a fool when it comes to trips like this...i want to do-over the whole package...which adds to the fun/excitement

FYI, for about $39 plus shipping (less expensive than the Zeiss or Leupy B&C options) the Leupold Custom Shop will do a custom reticle exactly matched to your load and calibrated for a 200 yard zero with tick marks for 300, 400 and 500. If you were shooting something flatter, they could also do a 300/400/500/600 setup.

You'll need to chronograph your loads (If you're using factory stuff, don't rely on published "propaganda"), get the BC figure for the intended bullet, provide average temperature, average elevation, etc. and they'll calculate it for you on their ballistics program and then do the custom reticle. I've done this on one rifle, and after long range testing results, I'll surely do more down the road.

Per my conversation with them, they'll even do this for a used scope...as long as it's one of theirs.

Good luck!

Best bull I ever killed was with a .257 Weatherby...120gr partition.

End your thread there and you answered your own question.

Stay with what you have, know and are comfortable with.

Not sure who told you a 30-06 is "barely enough for a large bodied animal", but they're ignorant beyond reason. The 30-06 is first, and foremost, an elk cartridge IMO/E...

+1 to what Brad said.

Both my wife and I have used the .30-06 on many "big-bodied" animals in North America and Africa over the years. If there is a non-dangerous big game animal that can't be killed neatly with a .30-06 then we haven't encountered it. In fact the .30-06 has served so well as my wife's "big rifle" on a bunch of animals that she backed down to the .308 a couple of years ago, with no noticeable decline in effect.

You are a lot better off with a familiar rifle. One of my favorite quotes came from a long-time elk guide I know. When I asked if he carried a .375 H&H because he guided in grizzly country, he said, "No, it's to finish off the elk my clients gut-shoot with their brand-new .338's!"

The elk guides I know (and I know a lot) are universal in their opinion that the .30-06 is plenty, and are against somebody buying a "big magnum" because they have heard that the '06 isn't enough.

This 6X7 B&C bull was killed cleanly with one shot from a 30/06. 180gr accubond....the bull I killed with my .257 was much larger....

That's a SWEET bull... but you look kinda clean

Heres' the best I've taken with a 30-06:

That's a great bull there! I'd like to see a pic of the much larger one!

Bulltail.....here you go...one shot through the lungs at 385 yards.

Brad, you lived in Bozo your whole life? I lived there for 30+ years....

Scenarshooter,

Gee, and I got reamed by some when in anotehr thread I suggested the .257 Weatherby was an elk round.

I'm not Brad, but I was born and raised in Bozeman, living there until 1971. Now I live in the distant suburb of Townsend. When were you there?

Moved there from Miles City in 1965...left there in 1994...just in time!!.....grin!

It's not the same now...sad to go back.

scenarshooter/ brad - there is no better way to account for a statement than with a picture and these have me more motivated than ever to go with what i got and get out there...many thanks for your responses...

Too big for me too!

I like Miles City a lot--except in the summer. My first real job was working on a ranch near Forsyth in 1968.

Where are you living now?

That .30-06 bull looks like it might have been taken in the Missouri Breaks, but then there is a lot of country in Montana that looks like the Breaks!

When I left Bozeman I moved to Jordan and was there six years...been in Glasgow the past ten years...my last stop.

Bull Mountains (06 bull), Missuori Breaks (.257 bull)

NICE, NICE bulls! I shot a few elk with an 06 back in the day. Some dropped fast, some ran a little while with mortal wounds. Have no doubt it will do fine as will the speedy .257Wby. I have moved up in caliber over the years, however this doesn't mean it's totally necessary or right for every one. I just like the bigger holes now and it gives me a warm and fuzzy. The comfort and confidence you have with your rifle is the major thing (provided it's sufficient for the job at hand). I don't feel the 06 a 400yd elk rifle, rather my opinion on this is its .340,.338-378 territory. As far as being a perfect round for the job on elk? I myself think it's the .378Wby. And of course these are base all on well places shots as usual. These are just my humble opinions (and only that except for the well place bullet statement which is a given).

Great bulls, and nice job with the 257 Roy. There is no replacement for shot placement, from your pictures I would say that about sums it up.

I sent you a Private message, you will see the little letter at the top of the page blinking.

My brother owns a tire store. A guy needed tires, traded him a Weatherby Vangard in 300 Weatherby, blued, synthetic. He would make you a deal on it.

Ah, the Bull Mountains. Nice country. I guided there for a whle in the late 80's and took some animals as well.

I wouldn't hesitate to hunt elk with any of the rifles or chamberings you list,including the 30/06 and the 7 mag(which is what I used on my last elk hunt).So the world is you oyster!I've had Weatherby ULW's in 7RM and 300WM;they were fine shooting rifles.

IME factory WSM ammo is loaded pretty hot at the factories,so may show a bit more velocity than the older magnums;this is neither here nor there and you won't be able to tell the difference.Your skill with the rifle wwill mean a lot more than another 100 fps.

That said,if you want a new rifle for elk hunting(forgetting for a moment that you already have one I like the sound of the 300 WSM with it's good selection of factory loads,and moderate recoil.

I think more fuss is made out of what it takes to kill an elk than any other game in North America....except Alberta and Texas whitetails

If you want a new "elk rifle". That's great. It's a pleasure to own a new rifle.

If your planning a 400 yard shot in a stiff cross wind then a 300 Weatherby loaded with a 200 grain bullet will do it better than probably anything.

Keep the shots under 300 yards and a 30/06 with 180 grain bullet will kill just as well.

I'll never understand the argument that a 30-06 isn't enough gun for elk so maybe I'll consider a 7mag.

Keep the 30-06 and spend the money you were going to spend on the Weatherby on:

Good mid sized 8x binoculars
A good rangefinder
2 pr good boots, one light and one for snow
Kenetrek gaiters
A QUIET medium capacity daypack
GPS

If you get all that, then spend the rest of the summer trying to wear out both the boots and the barrel on your 30-06.

If I was going to try to upgrade your rifle to be ideal for elk, I would put a McMillan Edge on it and shift to a smaller scope, like a Leupold 2.5-8 VX3. Those changes would probably take a pound off it and make it handier in the steep timber.

For those that want just a little more punch than there venerable 06 has now can easily and simply have it re-chambered to the .308 Norma. Not trying to start any flame but it is easily done with min mods and the same length action still works. It just turns it into a .300Win so to speak. My Dad did this countless times in his gunsmith shop for folks. The .30-338 is a simple one too that is almost identical but with only slightly shorter case (but cases are more easily available) and performance is pretty much the same. Your 220gr loads will be zipping along at the same speed as the 180 did before. Just some info.

Best advice so far... I'd stick with one pair of boots, ditch the GPS and go with OR gaiters, but otherwise, sound advice!

I sure hope you experienced elk hunters are right. I've traded for a Remington 760, which is getting custom iron sights, and had custom rifle made up from a 1942 made, 98 Mauser in the same round. If those 180-220 gr. Nosler Partitions bounce off of some iron clad bull, I'm not going to keep my feelings to myself. LOL ! E

Dont know as I would take that advice for the 30-06 will take any elk at Id say 500 yards or under that you can poke a 180 grainer in the boiler plant as shot placement overrides magnum mania always.............

Elk are really not all that hard to kill, once the shooting starts. The tricky part is finding them, having the gear and the stamina to hunt effectively in elk country, and getting yourself out if things get snotty.

Two more cents for consideration:

My current elk rifle is a .300 RUM. Still, a retired USFWS warden friend of mine used a .270 and .280 to cull untold scores of elk during his career, and almost always with a single shot. This was in the days before the modern super/premium bullet. Admittedly, he carries a .300 WSM nowadays.

I'll ask him for more details later, such as range, bullet type, etc., but in any case, his extensive experience (far beyond what I'd have in multiple lifetimes) surely demonstrates the effectiveness of the '06 and its progeny on elk.

On the other end of the popular elk cartridge spectrum, I've seen a buddy of mine deliver multiple hits from his .340 Wby to bring down a couple nice bulls (he shoots the pre-TSX XBT). Admittedly, his initial shots were raking shots.

On the first, the bull showed no signs of stopping after being hit twice (even though we found later that both reached the boiler room), and we eventually found him bedded, mortally wounded but still alert. On the other bull, it dropped within 100 yards of the initial hit, and upon post-mortem inspection, either hit should have done the trick solo. It just wasn't DRT performance.

This isn't a criticism of the .340 WBY or the Barnes X. Rather, this is yet another illustration of how ideal shot placement with a more standard cartridge can be more immediately effective than a super magnum and less than ideal shot angle/placement. This also shows how a powerful chambering paired with a super-premium bullet can have performance advantages if you're one to take a raking shot, given nothing else.

Sitting here at my PC, it's easy to say I'd pass up a less than ideal shot...but after eager anticipation, costly travel and enduring the better part of a week in a frozen elk camp at 8500', many an ethical compass may be tempted to sway a little should "Mr. 400" present only a Texas heart-shot pose at an intermediate range such as 250 yards.

That's where IMHO (very humble), unless necessitated by economics or ability, I generally do not recommend using marginal or light for quarry loads (by chambering and/or projectile). Your '06 is surely not light for elk.

Be careful with the bigger more powerful chamberings guys. You don't want to overkill them.



















Just Kidding.

As some have said, grab the '06 and go. Ditch that enormous scope for a 2-7x33 or 2.5-8x36 Leupold. Buy some boots and pack with the money you save. I wouldn't quit an '06 for a .300 mag and certainly not for a 7. If I had to buy another rifle I'd step up to a .338 (which is what I did) and shoot the hell out of it until it is and extension of yourself.

If I remember there was a little more to that story, didn't you shoot that thing like four times?

Wow, what a jackass... no. Twice. But he was dead with the first and just didn't know it...

Wow what a DICK!!! you made it sound like it was a one shot deal. chill out

I said it was the best bull I'd taken with a 30-06 (not the best bull I've taken)... how do you extrapolate anything beyond that dumb azz?

Lets see some elk you've trailed and killed sleeping in their bed...

I have posted plenty of dead elk pics on here, and live ones go look them up your self.

What a dumb [bleep], to show up on a nice thread and be obnoxious... go away little man.

But alcohol will do that to dipchits...

Wow nice mouth!!! a real internet tuff guy, what are you 5' nothing big guy?

I concur with the '06 being elk worthy though I've taken most with a 340 Wby; this one was a long shot with the '06 and 168-gr TSXs. Lost my hat in the process.

Explain that little drunk man...

George, I remember that bull... Crazies if I'm not mistaken?

Nice!

Grow up!!!

Explain it little man...

This site is full of sawed off, drunken miscreants that need a little accountability...

Full disclosure, I've never killed an elk, but plenty of elk sized animals and the 06 is a great caliber and you need look no further. Now if you are looking for a good excuse to add to your collection as we all are, I'd by a 340 MKV loaded with 210 TTSXs and that would be a nice elk rifle too! jorge

Talking about yourself again I see...

You've got plenty of experience being an AZZ over at accuratereloading... why not crawl back over there and try to impress someone. No one here is interested I can assure you.

Jorge, I've killed elk with the 210 Partition in the 338 WM and it works well. Personally, I can't find a need for the TSX/monolithic type of bullets. I believe they're more prone to problems than most other bullets combined, but that's just my opinion having used them since the 90's and having finally quit them altogether last year.

Your a sad little man....

Yea, it was and a cold day too.

I was disappointed that I couldn't work in seeing some of you Montana 'fire guys in the vicinity.

Some great inputs and observations here, bottom line is the Nosler is a superb bullet and so are a few others. I just pick the one my rifle likes best and go from there. jorge

I find comments like yours disturbing. Not because I doubt what you experienced, but because the politicians will eventually force us to use "unleaded" bullets.

Hi to all new here. I just wanted to say there is some verry interesting and heated reading here. good hunting&shooting to all. Derrill

Not so! The '06 is perfectly adequate for anything in North America. If you want something else go for it but you can hunt for a lifetime with your '06 and never need anything else.

Welcome to the 'Fire, Derrill!

I think those that say that are not dealing from experience.

X2. Kind of a fun thread.

X2 as well.

Scenarshooter--it's great to see you on the Fire! We spoke a while back about calling bruins and such, one of these days we should still get together and do that.

I've called in a bit over 60 now, spect you'd better come my way to get it done however... .

Have a super fall!

Dober

(send me a pm when you get a minute)

I often read something similar to this when someone is explaining his preference for a boomer cartridge, be it for elk or even deer.

Here's my question: Wouldn't a 30-06 with a good bullet be plenty to bust up the back end running gear of Mr. 400?

Honest question BTW, never popped an elk myself.

The bottom one, Ultra Lightweight, 300 Roy, 180 @3300...

I have known it to work in that application, but have never done it myself.....To be honest I'd be unlikely to try it with anything on an unwounded bull.Wounded,anything goes,and if a cartridge/bullet combo is capable of breaking shoulders when you shoot them through the "correct end" of the animal,it makes sense that the same combo should be capable of breaking a hip or two......sort of a sloppy end for a grand animal IMHO,but sometimes circumstances dictate undesireable actions.

In the one instance I know of, a 30/06 with 165 Partition broke the hips of a running spike....shooting full length of an elk is another story altogether and if a guy is inclined to take those kind of shots,I would think only the larger calibers and stoutest bullets should be used.I have(once) driven a 200 gr Partition from forward of the right hip of a big bull to the off-side shoulder,breaking it in the process...the bull was staggered by the first shot and I was able to finish him quickly......that's as far as I would want to stretch things myself.....

On the issue of a 30/06 being insufficient,I find it kind of interesting that some would find the cartridge inadequate for a 700 pound animal,when guys like Phil Shoemaker and others have depended on the cartridge to roust out wounded brown bears....elk seem to elicite this kind of enthusiasm....

Ok I'll explain it to you, I don't know if your are a habitual liar, or to drunk to remember but anyways in your own words here it is. SO PLEASE EXPLAIN THIS. I do know this you have a hell of a chip on your shoulders. And it looks like you need some accountability Anyways I count four shots not two

If you can't kill an elk with a 30 06 and cup and core bullets you'd better find another hobby.

Mathman,

If you read my next paragraph:



As such, I was referring to less potent, more questionable chamberings (not mentioned so as not to start any debates), surely not the venerable '06, which is great for elk in my book.

Undrestood where Bulltail is coming from...he made a good post...elk are large animals found in rough country,and present all kinds of shooting conditions.They can be tough to kill, especially if they know you are "there",and adrenalin is up.Distances can be long...or short...it takes good placement and good bullets to kill them,regardless of caliber.

I can understand guys wanting powerful calibers...BT/DT........even if the advantages are sometimes illusory,having them makes us sometimes feel better,anyway....

A buddy was very slightly off the mark this year with a 300 RUM,and lost the bull.Extremely disapointing.....another good lesson that placement trumps all and powerful rifles only show dramatic results when bullets are properly placed.

I could use a dirty ought six on elk.

But don't, do to better tool choices for my type of hunting.

Seeing that's four years ago, you're right. It's four. Woulda sworn it was two. I'm flattered you keep better count of what I shoot than I do. Have killed more than a few critters since then

Aside, you're still a complete and utter jackazz in my book.

When I found out you're the blowhard that snipes elk off your dad's back porch the reason you're an azz became clear. You can't/don't hunt elk... you shoot elk.

How could a guy forget putting four shots into an animal?

It's what happens when you're almost fifty... someday you'll understand.

Hell, I just counted up and in the last 4 years have probably been in and around 92 critters taken (note I did not say that I was the trigger man on all of them).

Point being I know that Brad's been in and around a lot of it as well and heck I'm doing good to remember the critters let alone how darn many shots I fired at them...

Now what in the heck are we cussing and discussing anyway...

And where in the hell is my AARP card?

Dober

With my reading glasses likely...

I knew you'd stolen them....I should of grabbed your lunch!

Heck I couldn't even recall giving you the H4831 let alone how many shots I poured into some critter 48 months ago...

Dober

Gophers don't count....(grin)

Crapola, busted again.....

You Boze guys seen the moon coming up over the Bridgers?

Dober

What about kangaroo rats??

Ain't that the truth...

Aside, when it comes to elk in the timber, I'm a pour in the lead til they're totally done sort of guy. First shot was a killer... he just needed reminding.

Killing elk out in the open is a LOT simpler than up close and personal... more goes wrong in the timber than out in the open IME.

Mark, was just sitting here looking at the moon rise over the mountains... awesome!

Might have to take the dog outside for a walk. Can't see much out of our little hobbit hole.
Noticed it was a big ol' full moon on the way to the shop this morning.

Sammer, you gonna do any elk hunting this year?

I need to Brad. Hell, just bought a rifle to pack in the hills so I better.

Just got off the phone with Johnny Loco and said he got into some(at a bit of a distance) today. Got me a little horned up!

Mac-remember you can get A9's over the counter down south and west a bit.

Dober

Dober, hadn't forgotten... we've got an entire elk in the freezer and I doubt this gang will go through more than one. OK, should rephrase that, have a tough, chewy bull in the freezer and maybe a lil' calf would be a welcome addition

Sammer, what'd you buy?

Another 300WSM, Sako A7. Sort of a Sikka.

Brad, you got a bull? Sweet!

Pic?

Good for you Sam. You just can't get away from those Sakos! Like me and Kimber MT's.

I can remember how many shots in this one (1), as it happened opening day... backpacked in, spotted him in the evening the night before the opener, "put him to bed" (set up my tent, etc) and whacked him with the Kimber the next morning at legal shooting light. He was still feeding 13 hours later within a 150 yards of where I'd seen him the night before:

Cool Brad, nice bull!

That sounds like the way to hunt. Pretty quick season.....(grin)

..just like a big tom turkey..nice job Brad! Dang! This darn thread has given me elk fever--again--with no foreseeable means of treating it soon sitting here in NW Iowa.

I like the way you hunt elk Brad.

I happen to like the .338 WM and the .340 Bee Mag, but I have killed elk with the .30-06 and with the 7mm Mag. I also lost an elk with a 7mm Rem Mag. He was well shot and just did not know it. I also shot an elk 3 times with a 180 grain Fail Safe, .30-06 in the lungs before he expired.

So, nowadays with all the other hunters on public land, I like the .338's for bang flop elk hunting!

George, that's awfully kind of you to say... for me, there's "elk hunting," and "hunting." Elk hunting in the backcountry is a LOT of work but I'm still physically able to keep it up for the foreseeable future and that passion hasn't really dimmed.

I've shot elk with the 338 WM that needed more than one!

Elk are all individuals, and some don't know they're dead no matter what you hit them with.

Brad,
That is another nice bull there! Congrats.

That be true.They seem to hold on to life better than say a moose bear ect.

Sammers you sure that isn't Seka...

Dober

Montana Math

4 TSX's to kill a bull.

1 Nosler Partition to kill a bull.

That says it all.

And my 22/250 took....ah forget about it this thread will really go in the toidy...

Dober

I already know about Montanan's and their high velocity 22's!

Buddy of mine in Anaconda won't use anything but a 220 Swift.

Swift elk.....let the "Flames" begin.............grin!!!

Nice bull, Brad...and nice job,too!.......and I would not take any crappola about shooting something 4 times either.Anyone who says they always kill...one shot..if they are truthful,have not killed much at all...or hunt petting zoo's.

Hehe....!

I'll point you right up those hills I saw those critters in!

Time for you to get those flat land legs moving in a vertical direction..

scenars, great pics man, nice bulls!

The Swift might not be my first choice in the timber, but I sure wouldn't feel handicapped out in the open like in your pic.

Cool.

That IS funny!

Funny how it goes sometimes....Want to find a bull?...go coyote hunting...Want to find a bunch of coyotes? Go elk hunting....grin! I've killed a few bulls with the swift and a few coyotes with my .338LM!!

I dont use the swift for anything larger than coyotes now but will always believe that shot placement trumps everything else...

I was out calling dogs the day I ran into that bull over by Ringling, Montana...I put two 55gr ballistic tips into his ribs from the black ridge behind me...150 yards or so. He never went 10 feet.

not trying to pic a fight Brad but why are you so mean and angry?

Gotta love the old Horn hat

No flames here, I like you have seen what the 22's can do to big (and small) critters.

Dober

No I was just amazed it took four shots to kill that skinny bag of bones. Must suck to be caught in a lie.



Wrong again that would be my front porch...



I thought you where suppose to be a Christian, and go to Church maybe not. Anyways it appears you cant Carrier on a civil conversation without attacking someone without the use of cuss words or trying to belittle them, why are you so bitter is your life that bad.

Maybe you need to step back and reread some of your post, than ask yourself, What would Jesus think. just a thought.

So from here on out I will have to have you on ignore.

All that to put someone on ignore?

Longwinded little [bleep], ain't ya?

classy...shaking head

No lie, just lack of memory as I honestly stated. You're still an azzhat and your smirky first post on this thread to me was loaded AND disingenuous as you know full well... you can play innocent, but I know better.

PS, you also obviously know nothing about what actual elk hunting in timber entails... as to christianity, that's between me and God and is not the business of pompous, deceptive azzhats.

You shouldn't have an opinion about something you know nothing about.

Thanks.

Scenar, sorry this good thread got dragged into the mud by the clown from Oregon (I played my part too). As I told Mark, I flunked Dale Carnegie when I responded to the little man. I apologize to everyone that had to endure it (apart from Mr. Cool).

I know Ringling pretty well... some good elk country. The Shields is one of my favorite places in the state. We have a little slice of it in Sedan, that I'm very grateful to have.

Mark told me your name, and I certainly know of you... your reputation with a rifle precedes you!

I can't understand it when people get in these name-calling matches on the 'fire or anywhere else for that matter. Joe, I have no idea what this is about and I don't know you but I suspect you're better than this and I know Brad is. He just showed it.

Truce, eh?

your right Brad i was not saying anything bad just seems like you are angry over nothing. just trying to understand. cheers Derrill

No worries Derril. I think I took your post as you meant it.

Brad

It's all good fella's....now back to what we love and live for!!

This is certainly true. I am not picking a fight with you. I am remarking more about having deer and or elk tagged by other hunters who get the drop on you or, in my case: three mounted riders shooting up an animal that I had shot, tagging it and trying to start a gun fight over it. I was on foot, in Utah, in the snow and 3 miles from my truck.

Since that incident, I have and will use my .340 Wea. Mag for all elk hunting on public land. A 225 gr Accubond seems to have the horsepower to do the job, assuming that I do my part. I also carry a .45 Long Colt while hunting for varmits. Just a comment, that's all.

I have a weatherby vangaurd in .338 win mag,full stainless steel safari brown synthetic stock with a nikon 3X9x40mm silver scope. 711$ for the rifle, 300$ or so for the scope.... Shoot 225 accubonds for anything in north america wouldn't use anything else. Kicks a little but very tolerable

Spanker, it would be easier to sell this rifle in the free classifieds section. More people will see it there.

Buddy of mine killed 7 Bulls with his 257 Wea before he had a guide tell him it was not an elk rifle.

According to Clair Rees, the infamous gunwriter, world hunter and author of "Matching the gun to the game", it is very marginal for elk. Best that he recommends is a 300 Win Mag or 338 Win Mag.

personally, I'd like to know if people knowingly hunt with a 270 Winchester for elk anymore and if so, what bullet do they use.

Confidence in your rifle is a powerful thing; I would take the 30-06.

I hunt elk with a .338 WM or a .300 H&H, either of which I have tremendous confidence in. If I had even the slightest bit more confidence in hitting with a 30-06 over these rifles, I would sure use it.

And for the record, I have killed elk very dead with a 30-06. Hard to go wrong with 180 gr. Nosler Partitions in the '06 for elk...

And I should add, I'd recommend simplicity in a scope - get a fixed 4x (I like older Leupolds). Elk are big, power not required in glass. Spend the extra on good binocs.

I couldn't care less what CR said about elk rifles. I'd be willing to bet that my wife has killed more elk than he has...<g>

AS for bullets in the 270, here's a sample of what we've used in the last few years. 130 NPT, 130 Horn, 140 Horn, 130 TSX, 130 Sierra Bt, 150 Hot Core, 150 NPT, 150 NPT, 150 Horn, 140 Sierra HPBT.

If I had to hunt elk with a 270 for the rest of my days I'd worry not and would fill up an ark or two with preme bullets and or std cnc.

Dober

Match the caliber with the game. 30'06 with 180gr+ is sufficient. Sure, a perfect shot placement with a 22-250 will take an Elk. Shoot one through the heart and don't hit a rib bone, a 22-250 will take an Elk. But it isn't ethical to use inadequate gear to take an animal. Don't use anything smaller than 30 caliber 180gr at 2800+ fps on Elk. Yes, 7mm using 175gr would be OK also. Using a 257/270 on Elk is just dumb.

First off welcome to the Fire, tis a fun place to hang out and learn and to cuss and discuss BG (ballistic gack).

Now about your statement about "Using a 257/270 on Elk is just dumb". You truly need to get out and hunt and kill more elk...

And, if you don't mind please share with us your experiences in killing elk that has led you to have a mind set as such?

Dober

Look, not arguing that a 257/270 won't get the job done, and I will reel in my "dumb" comment, but IMHO I just feel it isn't adequte for Elk. That's all. I'm actually surprised to hear so many ppl using these calibers for Elk. I don't claim to be an expert in Elk hunting ... have done much more white tail hunting.
I'm partial to the newer WSM cartridges, but one can't go wrong with the tried and true 30'06.
Great web site for sharing thoughts, ideas and general BS. :-)

I couldn't care less what CR said about elk rifles. I'd be willing to bet that my wife has killed more elk than he has...<g>

AS for bullets in the 270, here's a sample of what we've used in the last few years. 130 NPT, 130 Horn, 140 Horn, 130 TSX, 130 Sierra Bt, 150 Hot Core, 150 NPT, 150 NPT, 150 Horn, 140 Sierra HPBT.

If I had to hunt elk with a 270 for the rest of my days I'd worry not and would fill up an ark or two with preme bullets and or std cnc.

Dober[/quote]

Dober, how did the 150 Hot-Cors do on elk? I always carry my 760 carbine .270 as a backup to the .338wm when elk hunting. I normally load the 150 HC's for whitetails and black bear but haven't needed to shoot an elk with one yet. What kind of penetration did you get? Recover any bullets?

I reckon if I already had a 30/06 but want to go something larger going to 300wsm or 300 wm isnt worth the gain . My thoughts if wanting to stick to 30 cal would be go to 300weaterby at least it has a fair jump up in Velocity to make it worth while. The down side would be more expensive ammo and perhaps not as readily available. Otherwise the next step to me would be 338 wm , 338rcm or 338/06 using 225gr bullet dependant on your recoil tolerance.

Bloodworks--the 150 HC like the 150 Horn does very well. To date we've never recovered one out of an elk that I can recall.

I'd not worry one bit about it, put it in a good place and good things will happen.

Dober

WSM Fan-what have you taken elk with and what do you use for elk? have you taken any with and or seen any taken with the .270?

And yes you're right, this is a very good site that Rick provides for us. Lots of good info and info and people to learn from.


Thx
Dober

My all time favorite elk rifle is still my LW 700 .270 ROY with pizzy little 130 gr. bullets. Has shot a bunch of other critters a well. Shot this years elk with a .300 ULTRA but the .270 ROY will be back next year.

Lefty C

As far as the 270 goes, I've only seen the caliber used on white tail, never an Elk. However, on the white tail that I've seen, I'd say about 33% of the time the bullet did not exit the deer. I'm a fan of exit wounds. If the bullet periodically doesn't exit a deer, I can only image that it wouldn't exit an Elk. Again, I'll admit I'm somewhat a novice on the 270/Elk topic, and most of my experience is with white tail. Personally, I love the 270 Win. Have a Weatherby Vanguard 270 Win. But, IMHO, it seems a little underpowered for an Elk.
For Elk, I shoot my Win Coyote 300WSM or my Browning BLR 325WSM. I also have a 7mmRM and 300RUM, but have never taken Elk with them.

Lefty, honestly, what percentage of the time do you have an exit wound on an Elk with a 270/130? IMHO, it is under powered for an Elk. Not trying to stirr up a fight ... just curious. Love the 270, just seems a little light for Elk.

My friend in Alberta dumped a moose and a elk last week with the 270 Winchester.Factory loaded 130gr Winchester Power Points.One shot on the moose hit it in the heart and 2 on the cow elk.One in the lungs and another to finish it.Late season draws.Gotta love em.

Dober,

I'm still wondering how you can show your age with the Seka comment and NOBODY calls you on it!!! SamO must be too young to remember....

The 30/06 will do you very well on any elk. My dad killed his elk every year with a handloaded 270 win 130gr sierra; I was with him on many kills on running shots. That 270 win slapped them down hard. My friend in WA used a win 94 32 cal and shot a rosey this season 1 shot in the heart. My favorite elk rifle is the 280 rem with 140 gr barnes or hornady bullets. I have used the 30/06, 338 win and 340 wby with sucess also. I use the 280 for back pack hunts, its a fwt. Its all about bullet placement and of course you must know your limitations.

You want people's opinions but you're not really listening to them.

If you don't want to shoot an elk with a .270 cause you read Field and Stream and think it's too light, don't do it then.

But when you ask opinions and they are different from your Field and Stream article, you refer back to your article.

I'd heed Dober's advice and if you're not getting exits with your .270, you're probably shooting a tipped bullet. Don't blame the .270, blame your bullet choice.

Shoot a quality bullet and you'll get exits...

Field and Stream ... funny. Everything doesn't have to be filled with such drama. Chill out. I was simply wondering about his personal experiences with the 270. Yes, I see that he shoots a 270 for Elk ... how many times has he not had an exit wound? How many times has the Elk run more than 100 yards after being shot? Just curious. This isn't religion or politics ... well, hunting and shooting is pretty close to it.

Besides, when I shoot my 325WSM or 300RUM, I don't need to worry about bullet quality. That's the definition of "marginal". With a 270, a good shot with a good bullet will do the job. With a 325WSM, I just put the cross hairs on the neck or heart, pull the trigger, and grab a snack. Done deal. I have seen, on more than one occasion, a 270 bullet go clean through the neck of a deer, and it ran for nearly 200 yards. I've seen deer shot through the neck with a 270 that never stopped but was shot the following week by another hunter and we found a 270 bullet hole through the neck. EVERY deer/elk I've hit in the neck with the 325WSM has dropped DRT.

Obviously, with these 270 examples of neck shots, the bullet missed the backbone and the jugular. And yes, if you can't make a good shot you shouldn't be hunting. The 325WSM is a fire and forget caliber without the punishment of one of the big magnums.

That's different than my experience. When I've had bullet problems it's been from non premium bullets pushed to hard from magnum rifles.

Geeee...EVERY deer/elk I've hit in the neck with the .223 has dropped DRT....

So I guess we have something in common....or not.

Ingwe

I hope to be able to shed some light on the topic above as I have hunted with this caliber for many years. My father purchased my first rifle in the early 90's in a 270 wby. I took the time to learn how to shoot this gun and the importance of not out shooting ones abilities. I have hunted with it for roughly the last 17 years. I typically shoot 150 gr Nosler partitions when hunting elk or larger game.

I have killed over 12 elk and 14 deer with this gun over the years and I have never lost one. Actually I have never even had to do any significant tracking on any of these animals. With that said I dont try neck shots a 400 yards. I typically shoot right behind the shoulder as this shot placement has yet to let me down.

2 years ago I was lucky enough to take this rifle on a buffalo hunt. At 238 yards the Buffalo was hit with one shot (shoulder...god I am boring) that dropped it flat on its chest. The butcher told me he tipped the scale at 1200 lbs with the guts out of course. Sure you can shoot something larger lots of people do. But in my opinion for where I hunt in Wyoming and what I hunt (elk and rocky mountain mule deer) the 270 weatherby mag. has never let me down and frankly I dont think there are much better out there, but I am certainly biased.

Great info. Thanks for sharing. Clearly if you are taking buffalo with a 270 cal then it must be more capable than I originally thought. Great web site.

I have always longed for a 7 Wby mag but never really cared for the Mark V rifles, if you like the Mark V rifles the 7 Wby would be a great choice, recoil is about the same as a 300 WSM.

er shaw will make you a wby 7 mag for about a grand and it will out shoot the wby mark v most of the time, 6 month wait but impressive results. tsx 160's in wby 7 mag are a great combo.
Happy turkey day
Anie

WSM-just for giggles I'll let you in on a bit of my .270 experiences and elk. Started killing elk with it in about 78. Since then I'be used it and have watched buds shoot their .270's on 25-30 head of elk. That being with all the various bullets that I mentioned.

These elk have been taken as close as 100 yds to 650 yds. At this time I can recall finding two of them. One of them and that was on a nice 5 point with the 140 Horn. And that bull was facing us when my friend dropped the hammer. The other was on a big cow I took winter of 85 or so with the 130 Noz. Other than those two I cannot recall finding any bullets nor can I recall not getting two holes. And I am a proponent of two holes on game.

The vast majority of the elk we've taken with the .270 has been with the 130 Sierra Bt and that includes the elk @ 650 yds. It went about 15-20 feet and tipped over.

To date non of the elk have gone over 50 yds or so. Guess my thoughts are you put a good slug in a good place and good things happen.

I'm a member of the 50/50 club (meaning 50 years old and have seen over 50 head of elk taken) and that has taught me that the .270 is more than adequate for elk.

You seem like a nice fella, but perhaps a bit less educated on the killing of elk than I am. If you went to taking elk with the .270 I am more than sure that it wouldn't take long and you'd be a believer as well.

Have a super Turkey day!

Dober

Mark...

Doooood....

You are starting to lose it...old age and all that....



For you...its the 51/51 club....



Ingwe

Actually the 51 years part is right, we'll have to bbq some night and we'll talk about the other #...

But yes you're right, I am losing it!

Dober

Yeah...I'd have to PM about the second number as well.....

For sure....


Ingwe

Thought so....<g>

Dober

The American Heritage Dictionary; New College Edition: "DUMB- "informal definition": Ignorant or stupid.....slow to apprehend; dull,obtuse;showing a lack of sense or intelligence.....

This is a riot....funny stuff.......uh lemme see...the cartrdgee has been around since 1925. It is internationally renowned as a long range cartridge,used routinely here and in Africa on stuff from 100 to 1000 pounds or so....I have friends and personal acquaintances who have used it (mostly with 130-150,and 160 gr Partitions,130 BBC's, X, Swift Aframes,etc) for the usual run of deer,elk,moose,mountain grizzly,Brown Bear,sheep, goats...........in Africa on eland,kudu,gemsbok,zebra......Bob Lee (an international BG hunter and entrepeneur who owned a Tanzania safari outfit),used it on 9 lions......O'Connor,Whelen,Pahlavi,Les Bowman,Craig Boddington,John Barsness,John Haviland,Jack O'Connor, Brad O'Connor.........all have used the 270 Winchester for a vast array of game animals elk sized and larger.

At the cost of elk and elk hunts, you have to forgive me if I have not shot 50 of the things with the 270 or anything else....(when I was really active as an elk hunter I used 300's and 7 mags) but I have seen it used many times.....(my rancher buddy in Wyoming has likely killed 40-50 with it).........thousands of elk are killed with it every year,likely the total exceeds over a million elk by now.......

And suddenly.....in the booming wake of the of the alphabet mags, in the enlightenment of the 21st Century, the 270 has become a chump change elk cartridge;the 7 mag barely edging into the adequacy class(whew!)........and this newfound knowledge springs from the internet where these sages have shot a half dozen teensy Georgia whitetails with a 270 (whining cause they didn't get "exits" no less)....the font of elk-hunting wisdom..........everything that happened before has been rendered irrelevant......and "dumb". Given the sources and the arguments, I'd question who deserves the description of "dumb"......

The 270 (and the 300 WSM, 300 RUM, 7 rem mag,300 WM, etc) are all lightweight elk cartridges if the guy driving it is a lightweight rifleman, lacking skill and judgement in shooting.......

Some of the stuff on here is enough to make you bust a gut laughing

Elk- killin' Montana bastids... grin... Y'all need to SUFFER for your elk like the rest of us!

To the OP: it's been said enough but I'll add my voice to the choir: '06 is a powerful cartridge, period. This gets forgotten because there are lots of MORE powerful cartridges, but...

So, you have one very good elk rifle that you are very comfortable with. If you want another one, and money and recoil don't matter, in a long action the .338 Win Mag has "elk whacker" stamped right there on the barrel. Or it should. In a WSM action, I would point you at a Kimber Montana in 300 WSM or .325 WSM. Whole lotta whoop-ass per pound, with those WSM Montanas!

I personally would put a smaller scope on your '06 though. A Leupold with the B&C reticle sure works, as does the Rapid-Z reticle you mentioned. However no point in investing in the reticle and rangefinder unless you are willing to commit to at LEAST several hundred rounds of practice with it, in field conditions, at longer ranges... Just IMHO.

Bob...

Please quit with the drama...grin...

You guys are funny. Happy Thanksgiving. Maybe I'll go buy a 270WSM on an after-thanksgiving-sale and get some "270 experience". Cheers.

....ohhh....OK...

But really,Greg...how much stuff has to die before it starts to sink in.....?That's my point...

Hi Bob,

For many (you and me included) an elk hunt is Very Special Thing. Heck for some it's a once in a lifetime thing. This leads folks, gun nuts in particular, towards wanting an "optimum" elk rifle/caliber. Perfectly natural response... In a gun-loon sort of way!

All I would say in response to your .270... uh... exposition would be to ask how many times you personally have chosen to hunt elk with one, vs. How many times you've chosen something else- something "more".

This is not to impugn the .270, and it's sure as heck not meant to start an argument! For illustrative purposes only...

WSM,

I have had exits with both the tipped TSX (last year) and the 130 partition a few years ago. 130 partition exited a pretty good BC moose. BTW elk will die if the bullet doesn't exit. look at my post above..this years elk was hit with a 200gr AB out of a .300 ultra..no exit dead elk. For sure the .300 is a lot more gun than the .270..but both elk died. I think the results would have been the same if the elk was hit in the same place with my .308. A direct shoulder hit is pretty hard on any bullet and I dont know what it would take to get a exit with a bullet through both shoulders. You don't need a anti-aircraft gun to kill them just hit them right. I would gladly hunt with a standard .270

LC

My wife went elk hunting yesterday with her brother ( I don't hunt them anymore...I don't EVER wanna see another one of those bastids dead on the ground..)
They took off before 6 am, tracked and killed one pretty quickly...about 8;30 ( The BIL got him...)

In only 12 more hours of slogging through the snow, pulling a sled laden with quarters...my wife got home...


She looked like she suffered enough...


Ingwe

Wait till I give her the GPS quads for all the elk that are stacked up in X Crick...

I'll be sure to tell her that you know the area well.

Dober

Don't let these 270 Hardheads gang up on you WSM_Fan,

If I lived in GA and planned an elk hunt out west, I don't think I would be taking a 270 with me.

Ah we're not ganing up on him, us 270 hardheads don't do that till people actually have experience on elk with the round. Then we center them in our sights...

Dober

Dober,

I have a new mule deer/elk rifle in the works, soon to be completed. You are going to eat your heart out!

Soon to be revealed in the weeks coming.....

You could fit what I know about elk in a thimble but I tend to think that the 270 is overkill on elk.....

Good deal, I knew you had it in you to do another .270....grin

Can't wait to hear, I'm sure it'll be nice (as long as it aint heavy...).

Have a super Turk day!

Dober


(may be going to Portland again in Feb for another kenetrek show)

Oh, it ain't heavy. Should weigh under 6 lbs dry.

I don't know about that, I've always thought the 270 as being a little light in the loafers.

hence the ""........

Anyone heard of the 284 Roy?

Well brutha, our Oregon elk are just as hard to pack. For our east-side hunts (the ones most guys hunt), the hunt is a 5-day affair and success rates are generally quite low... A guy killing an Oregon public-land elk is doin' good to average (1) every 6 years...

That's suffering <g>. BTDT.

I really, really want to hunt Montana sometime. I like everything about it. Game numbers seem good, seasons long, visibility is there so you can actually glass... Looks pretty cool.

Good for you guys. I'm sure it's not by accident that you live there.

Please guys dont generalize all 270 caliber rifles as the same. The 270 WSM and the 270 Weatherby Mag have a pretty significant horsepower gain over their predecessor the 270 win.

I have yet to see the elk that would die from a .270 WSM or .270 Weaherby bullet that would only be wounded by a .270 Winchester.

Way to go and bring logic into a rifle loonie deal, Mr. Mule Deer.

JB, didn't you write something not too long ago about the riskiness of neck shots? I wonder if the assumed inadequacy of the .270 isn't related to a poor neck hit.

Elk are not bulletproof BUT many hunters are lousy shots, can't stalk, don't know how to use camo or wind, are out of shape, most don't know wild Elk are "creatures of the night", can't shoot off improvised rests or from standard 4 positions.
If you can't get within 300 yards of an Elk and kill it with a 270, 308 or 30-06 using today's ammo, you don't belong afield.

A big boomer and a huge scope don't make up for the hunter's failings.

My new Elk stick that will get a 2.5-10x32 Nightforce in SK mounts next week.

I agree a lethal kill is a lethal kill. However there is more than one way to skin a cat, or should I say more than one knife.

Nice rig. Is that the Benelli R1?

They even do that with guys that HAVE experience...and are already using a proper elk cartridge...

Like the 7x57!!!

Or the ".270 Improved"...the .280



And Dober...BTW: DON'T tell my wife where the elk are...or we are gonna have WORDS...!!!!



Ingwe

Oh my gosh, I think that has to be the ugliest rifle I've ever seen.
Right up there with Salvage.

SU-me thinks he's pimping us, right...?

Dober

Yup..sorta a cross between a Rem 740 and a violin, but one mans meat, another mans poision.


LC

I'd like to know if the fellas a east coaster and or a west coaster? Just curious is all.

Dober

Dang Mark, I reckon so! One thing for sure, that's a pimp's rifle.

LOL!

Man has to be from the right coast.

Well, for a couple of us, yeah maybe........(laughin')

JO
You have confused Montana with Yellowstone Park in September. Public hunting there is not so easy. Still, it's a great place to try. You should put in for the draw sometime.

Oldman1942, am sure that's an efficient killing tool, but that's positively the ugliest hunting rifle I've ever seen. An sure there's one worse than that - w/ a plastic stock.

Life's too short to hunt with an ugly rifle...