This is a bit lengthy of a post but worth the read.

Spent 21 days chasing elk in the Salmon zone of Idaho. I got into elk pretty much everyday, but they were so hung up in dark timber it was impossible to locate anything with horns without getting busted. The weather was not ideal for elk hunting. Snow level was 8k-9k everyday and some high temps reached into the 60's. Very piss-poor weather to hunt elk. Clearly the worst experience I've had factoring in the weather.

Anyhow, here's the story at hand. I had walked a creek that was only accessible by walking or horse. This was a new trail to me but considering it was a very "obvious" trail it got passed over completely...think of the term "hiding in plain site". I decided to hit the trail and either find out by foot traffic it's been hunted or the opposite. Well, after about 100 yards I discovered I had been the only one on the trail for at least 3-4 days, maybe more. I walked this trail for roughly 1.5 miles.....which took me 3 hours to do. It was a very, very easy walk but I was taking my time waiting, (hoping), for opportunity.

After about 1.5 miles I decided to sit my fat arse on a log and down some lunch as it was around 2:00 p.m. I ate my sandwich, added some sugar snack and drank some water. I get up and walk about 20 feet when I see a flash to my left. So you know, I'm kind of in a saddle between two mountains and it's a lot more open than usual for the area. Still a lot of pine, but like I said, it's a saddle and fairly open. Anyhow, I see a moving flash to my left, instict kicks in, I flip my scope covers, shoulder the rifle to the area I see movement and swing with follow through until I can identify. Within about 2 seconds I see head gear and attempt to pull down for a pump station shot....nothing but flashes of tan which are never in the same area. I continue to track him through the scope, he is still trotting and dipping his head about every 1-2 seconds to sniff the trail he's following. When I first saw the flash of him I was roughly 50-60 yards away and thankfully I had my scope on 3X so I got a full view of him. He presented decent shots but the way he was traveling the opportunity only lasted about a second...not nearly enough time to acquire and shoot. Here's the other factor, I had a bit of a elevation rise of ground between me and him. What I could see consisted of head flashes and about 6 inches of his back. He did stop one time but I only had his rear quarters to see due to the trees in the way when he stopped. He was going from left to right from me heading towards another mountain. Once I knew I wasn't getting a shot I stripped my day pack and tried to close the distance and get some elevation gain. He then crossed a very small creek and headed up the next mountain. After he crossed the creek I was 20 seconds or so behind him to the creek. I waited for about 5 minutes to see if I could spot him again as the timber got a lot thicker. Just when I was ready to give up I spotted him, about 40 yards away. He was now side-hilling and walking. I got lucky and had a dead pine next to me so I rested on that and pulled up to a 12-15ft opening in the timber that he was heading to. I held tight on that spot waiting for him to step out.....he didn't. He had to of turned and went uphill as any other direction I would have seen him. From when I first spotted him to the point I saw him across the creek walking he never knew I was there, didn't look my way once. Possibly he winded me on the hill across the creek which maybe made him bolt up, but I don't know for sure.

The only two things I would have done different, first, I would have had my pinch and blow call either on my neck or in my mouth.....it was in my pack that I had already ditched. I'm pretty certain I could have stopped him for the shot. The other would be that I would have got off that log about 30 seconds earlier which would have gave me more of an elevation gain but not neccessarily a better shot.

I got back to camp and told my buddies what had happened. Of coarse I hear all the crap about I would have done this and done that. One new guy to camp said he would have shot him in the hams...why would you ruin a lot of good meat I ask? He's new to hunting so maybe that would be his off the cuff response.

The whole scenario repeats in me head everyday. Yes, I probably could have shot him in the spine above the hams when he was standing for me.....but, what if? I've killed a lot of elk but never have I shot one that way....I think I owe it to him for a quick kill, it's the least I can do.

I equate it to being on your porch, rifle slinged on your shoulder and you see a shooting star....try hitting that bullseye before it burns out.

So, what would you do?

Dosent sound as if there was ever an oppurtunity for a safe shot.
I would have passed myself and been in the same boat playing it over in my head latter. Dosent sound like it would have been fun tracking a wounded animal in the timber either.

Considering the situation as you described it, I'd have passed up that shot, too. In fact, several years ago, I had approximately the same thing happen to me when I was elk hunting up on the north fork of the Clearwater River. Far too much brushy willows, mountain ash, etc. A "big six" about 40 yards or so, never ever cleared out of that brush.

Maybe next year, BringItBig .... ???

L.W.

Had a situation similar to that some 20 years ago. Had a bead between some trees where he was going and never popped through (about 10-15ft in front of his direction of travel). Herd a shot up over a ridge after waiting about 30-45 sec. Must have been spooked at the last second and high tailed it up over the ridge where I found him latter being gutted by another hunter. Just wasn't my day I guess.

How Lean, do behave!!! You need to stop as with the hair trigger I have I could shoot the moon!!! Glad to see others have experienced the same dilemna. Granted the last time I was deep in "brush" I nailed it good!!!

Thanks for the post!!!

Robert

If the shot isn't there, it isn't there... You done good to stay off that trigger, pat yourself on the back and give a knowing grin to the noob in camp if he tosses you any more [bleep]!

You did the right thing. I would have been the same way, though. I'd have thought about it until I was blue in the face!

I'd agree with the others, if the shot didn't "feel right" then it most likely wasn't. When in doubt, some shoot, others hold off. When in doubt, holding off is the right thing, IMHO.

Reading through it sounds like there was never a good shot opportunity. It sounds like any of those would have been fast offhand shots (although close ones).

You can feel a whole lot more at peace with yourself by ending a hunt having never shot than having shot and missed or shot and not found it.

Let him walk.If the shot isn't there,you don't take it.You can't shoot at every elk you see.I have found that hunting thick timber I get an opportunity to shoot at about 1 out of every ten elk I see.

What would I have done? I would have been ready to stop the bull in the 1st few minutes of the sighting where a shot presented itself, one only needs a small window with a rifle & a shot under a 100yds. I've taken a few elk by stopping them with a "nervous/popping grunt" as I call it. It can be made with ones voice or a mouth reed. It will anchor any elk, cow or bull with just one grunt sound from your voice or reed, it's much more effective than a cow sound & no calls needed! All elk hunters should learn this sound & how to make it with their voice, it will stop elk at 10yds or 200yds. This sound can make the difference with ones standing over horns or watch them walk away! (grin) I enjoyed your story!

ElkNut1

Thanks all for re-assuring me I did the right thing. I new I did, but letting him walk at that range with such an easy pack out really sucks. But what sucks worse is wounding and possibly never finding him....the scenario of letting him go will fade in time, but the actual real deal of wounding him would last a lifetime. Once that bullet is fired, you can't take it back.

Thanks again!!!

Robert

Hey Nut, I've always just hit the cow call and it works pretty good. With muleys I can grunt really convincing with my mouth, that always locks them up. But what is this "nervous/popping grunt" you speak of? I'm not sure I've heard of it. Anyway you can describe it more?

Thank you!!!

Good story and I'm sure you learned from the experience. However, I really believe you made the right choice by not slapping the trigger. Don't listen to anyone else saying they could have connected. You were there, not them. And don't beat yourself up either. You did what any good hunter would have done.

So what if you lose a couple of lbs. of meat with a ham shot?? Shoot him in the hams, walk up and kill him, if he isn't already dead (pelvic shots are HIGHLY lethal). Now you get to sit and think about it for the rest of your life while you cook up your tag for dinner each night. That is why I practice practice practice on all manner of moving targets. Hunting is SELDOM full of perfect opportunities like you see on T.V. especially on public land. Knowing you can make "window" shots or moving shots with little doubt of missing or wounding a critter builds huge amounts of confidence. I would rather have 180 lbs. of meat, because I lost 10 lbs. from a rump shot, than no meat at all. Everyone has their own abilities and limitations. As long as you hunt and shoot within those limitations, you are a good ethical hunter. Flinch

I don't know if I read the op's post right but you saw movement and immediatly put your rifle and used your scope to ID it?

Granted you were close and could probably ID it as an Elk but I hope you don't just point your rifle at noise and than use your scope to figure out what it is.

You did the right thing. There just was not a good shot presented to you. Thats just how it goes some time. The new guy in camp that said he would shoot it in the hams is an idiot.

You did the right, ethical, and honorable thing.

Two hernias ago, I tried the popping nut call once.

Bringitbig, I'd be happy to share the sound with you. (Nervous/Popping Grunt) The reason we prefer this sound in most situations such as the one you were in is it asks something of the elk! A Cow Call or mew asks nothing, it just plants a seed that there's an elk over there. As I mentioned at times this is enough but I find it is really a crap shoot as to whether an elk stops or not, in many cases they still take a few steps after your cow calling even though they may look your direction. In tight cover where you need them to stop in the one & only window or shooting lane the nervous grunt flat does not let you down!

The reason it works so well is it asks something of the elk unlike a cow mew or chirp. It asks for an identity or visual of something they saw or heard but are unsure of where it is or what it is they saw. It's a nervous reaction all elk use at one time or another, I'm sure many here including possibly yourself has heard it before? It sounds similar to a bark but is not as high pitched or rapid in succession such as a warning bark that in most cases is a mountain side clearing event! (grin) A nervous grunt only comes in a single note or grunt fashion & will freeze any elk in its tracks, this sound could've helped you if the bull would have hit an opening where you could have used it to stop him!

Like the others I too would not have prayed & sprayed lead in hopes of the best, but, if I could've stopped him for a clear shot where I could hit him where he lives then I would've done so! I'm sure you made the right choice at the critical time it happened, most know that have been there that there's not lots of time to make a decision when things are happening fast! It's really easy from the comforts of our computers to say we would've done this or that!

Seriously speaking, consider this grunt sound if you are in this situation again it will make a believer out of you! It can be done with your voice so you can use it anytime! Here's a link to the sound, go to "Bull Elk Sounds" once there.
http://elknut.com/Directions_1.html

ElkNut1

Elknut1,
It would have been a little more forthright to tell us up front in your post that you are selling the sound that you say would have stopped the elk. I.e. Instead of telling the hunter he should have used a certain elk sound, it would have been more accurate to say, "I am selling an elk sound that would have helped you in that situation."

After I went to your site I realized that your post was sales pitch rather than merely passing on elk lore. Your post implied to me that I would hear the sound if I went to the site. The site linked offers no sound samples that I could find, certainly not under the Bull Elk Sounds subhead. You've no reason to give anything away, and owe none of us any such freebie, but I felt that a trace of bait and switch had been pulled on me. Ive nothing against anybody selling stuff. Good for you, but make it clear that youre selling.

No flames, just a little disappointed. You do way better usually.

Okanagan, I can understand your disappointment if it were true! I am not selling anything here at all. I shared info on a particular sound that could've worked in stopping an elk in its tracks running or walking! There are tons of sounds elk make defining them can be the key to ones success. I've been on various hunting sites for years now & am a Sponsor on 6 different ones as well as a moderator on just as many, I am not deceiving or underhanded in any way. I've shared tons of sounds, methods & techniques with thousands over the years including countless hours of phone conversations. I do not have a passion for money but do have one for elk! (grin)

Please go to this link that I provided above to the thread starter to hear the Popping-Nervous Grunt. http://elknut.com/Directions_1.html

Not only that bull sound but many more as well, too there's another video clip there of many different cow sounds as well. I put those sounds on our Site because many times I will refer to different elk sounds that ones would use in a particular encounter. On the internet message boards such as this one, one cannot give that sound, just a description of its use! (grin) The link provided here is Free, the 1st sound given is the Popping-Nervous Grunt. As you can see I'm selling nothing, I'm just sharing info here! If you or anyone else would like to talk about this sound or any other I'm always available at 208-630-3480---I've talked with "saddlesore" here & I'm sure he can tell you I just love talking elk, I am no salesman I'm an elk hunter like you! By the way, he does pretty good at it himself! (grin)

ElkNut1

I can assure you, Paul is always willing to talk elk and share. He does sell many elk related calls and videos, which are great. We don't always agree on all tactics, but his work also.
He offers a differt slant on things that just might help out the next thme other things don't work

You did the right thing Bringitbig. On an unwounded animal a person who respects the game and hunting only shoots for a clean, rapid kill with the first shot. I knew a kid in high school who would shoot any part of an animal he could see, vitals or not. I only went hunting with him once. If he couldn't find a critter he wounded with little effort it was no biggie to him. The meanest, cruelist person I ever had the misfortune to meet. The creep is probably a serial killer somewhere. The hunting I do is not about survival, combat, or even "sport" as in competition to kill something more or bigger than the next guy, it is a way of life and respect for the game plays a big role to me. I am glad to see the majority here agree with your decision also.

I guess in my story I should of said "I saw a flash ot tan, his arse". That's when I pulled up to get on target to ID if a bull or not, my mistake. I am a safe hunter, very safe. I've personally been shot twice, both being rifles, so I respect what comes out of that barell. So safe in fact my story proves it to the fact.

Robert

I can't say because I wasn't there. But I understand they can travel with a bad hit. Yes, I know about breaking down the femur/pelvic area. I've done it a time or two. Not always intentional.
Had a very nice, 6 pt. bull pause between a couple of cows, giving me a poor shot, i.e. I was afaird I'd shoot through him or hit a cow in my haste to shoot. Then he turned and walked between the cows. Not quite enough time to do it right and too close/bad angle to the cows. On top of that, I had a sharp, uphill shot off to my right. Did not have quite enought time to set up the shooting position. A little on the far side, about 260 yds., especially with that awkward a shooting position.
The error was mine. I didn't realize it was not the group of elk that I'd seen previously. Didn't occur to me until I started counting that there would be two groups of elk, one with 23 cows and one spike, as well as a herd of almost 50 cows and one large bull, all within a few hundred yards of each other. Quite a lession. E

ElkNut1,

Please accept my apology for misreading and mislabeling you.

I can't get any sounds from the site you linked to but that is probably due to deficiency on my end. I assumed earlier that no sounds meant we had to buy them to hear a sample, hence my misguided comments.

Thank you for your courtesy in correcting my goof.
Good hunting!

Yep shoot him in the azz. Break bone they don't go anywhere. I would take 10 lbs of ruined meat on an elk anyday if that meant getting the critter.

Okanagan, no sweat man! If the link isn't working for your PC go here to this link http://www.youtube.com/ it's just "youtube" is all. Type in elknut & several video clips will appear, click on the one that has the Bull Elk Sounds & you should be good to go.

I did try the other link I provided & it seems to work just fine but not all PCs are created equal. (grin)

ElkNut/Paul

Wow. If these were hunting accidents and any useful information can be taken away and you're willing to tell the tale, it could be valuable information.

Yep, and it is so satisfying to see a wounded elk shot in the butt trying to crawl away with only it's front legs and bawling doing it. I guess some guys are so kill crazy that anything goes in order to put the animal down.
And the meat is so good after all that suffering and adrenaline pumped into it.

Yup. There's many reasons to pass up on a shot, and personally, I'd never tell anyone who held off that he made a mistake.

I remember a line from the band Deep Purple ,
"It's not the kill ,It's the thrill of the chase".
You did right, but like me and everyone else who hunts,you will relive it a zillion times ,that's what makes hunting special!

Bringitbig,

After reading only two posts, I will chime in with shoot the spine above the hams. I go for meat in the pot.

Sorry to say, I couldn't moraly do that. Ya, I could have punched a hole through his butt, but at what cost? The elk possibly dying without being harvested? Come on, there is no RIGHT in that, more like a waste. I don't go through all my mountain climbing, early mornings, late nights, crappy food and missing my family to "hope" I do lethal damage.

Assume my shot placement was too low from the spine, then what? I get to track a wounded elk further than I care or can physicaly travel? I don't think so, not happening. I will tell you this, as I've thought about it plenty, if I had a 100% guarantee I would break his pelvic bone I would have done it, with respect for a quick follow up shot. I DID NOT have that guarantee, so I passed. I still have that gut feeling, that will haunt you, (me), everyday, if you're reckless and sling the lead and you're wrong with your placement, maybe you shouldn't be hunting.

You are so on target Vince with your post. I'm a human, I have feelings, and if none of you want to admit it, I HATE, I repeat, HATE, to hear an animal suffer in pain. Call me a puss, call me sensitive, I don't care, that's just the man I am.

And besides, what's 1/2 of 180lbs of meat being turned into hamburger really going to do for you because you're trying to play "basketball" with a fast kill???? I myself would prefer a "slam dunk".

Ringman, what if your shot wasn't true? Would you stay out all night tracking him for an actual kill shot? Or maybe you would hind-tail it back to camp for a meal, warm fire and a cot after looking for a few hours? I'm not throwing stones, I mean no dissrespect, but wildlife are funny that way. You fired the shot and at that point you have commitment. They don't have a tent to sleep in, they are trying to survive after whatever you gave them. Really, please, think about it....you owe that much to you and more so to the animal.....except for maybe wolves and coyotes....lol

Robert

Hey Smokepole, nope, no hunting accidents, at least as far as hunting game goes.

First time I was shot was back in 1987. I was sitting at Petes Fish & Chips in Mesa, Arizona having lunch. I'm about a 1/3rd through my monster burger when I hear some sounds, not sure what, but with the traffic and all it really didn't register as anything. About 20 seconds later my right arm thumped/moved on the table and it wasn't me doing it. I then tried to move my arm but it just kinda of dangled down about mid forearm. I then heard more of the noise I heard earlier and saw people yelling and running. I crawled under the red painted wooden table I was seated at trying to understand/comprehend what was going on. To make a long story short, it turns out some fruitcake decided to arm himself with a 223 and fire off the local Berg Ford building into whomever was in his sights. I ended up getting a bit of muscle damage in my right arm along with breaking the ulna and radius bones in my arm. Those bones would be the ones between your wrist and elbow. I had some surgery, casting and healing but was/am none the less for wear at this point.

Second one would be in Desert Storm. At the time I was a Medic for the Marines. As you know the "war" didn't last all that long, for the strike-fighters in the planes that is. For those of us on the ground it was a bit more lengthy. About 2 days in some of the Marines got into some close fire-fighting. I would be bringing up the rear....not my decision, that's just where Medics are ordered. Anyhow, I got called on the scrambler for help. I made my way to the troop and started to attend the wounds. She suffered from a huge hematoma and fractured Tibia. I got her stabilized, called in air and ground for transport and then got ready to move. About that time I felt a huge burning in my gut, I mean like a fireball.

I slapped the radio man in front of me and asked him to look me over. He said I was looking a bit flush and then he noticed the small trickle of blood through the front part of my vest. Upon his further examination he said I had an exit wound as well. I then asked him to strip me of my pack and vest. At that point the blood started to really flow because of the lack of blood restriction from the vest....think of it as a half-assed tourniquet. I immediately grabbed gear from my pack and started a morphine/blood clotter drip. After about 1 minute of the drip, as that's all it takes to feel next to nothing, I had the radio guy put a tampon in both the front and rear hole. And yes, tampons are a must in the field.

Fast forwarding, me and the gal from above got flown to Germany for a some surgery. Don't ever know what happened to her, but I'm doing kick-arse!!!! As it turns out the arse-hole that shot me was using FMJ bullets and there was no expansion, just a hole through my stomach and liver....THANK YOU GOD!!!!

Bringitbig,
Happy Veteran's Day and thank you for your service. I'm glad you are doing so well.

Bob

What RS308MX said. Thank you. Again, it's your call. Only you can determine if you are willing to risk it and you are the one that will live with the results. E

WOW!! BIB, my hats is off to you... Thank You for keeping us "free"...

Happy Veterans Day and Thanks Bringitbig.

BIB, what those guys said, thank you!! You have a pretty unique perspective on the whole concept being discussed here.

Bringitbig �

It is always hard to tell what a person would do in a particular situation. The two biggest bulls I�ve ever drawn a bead on were at 100-125 yards, in fairly open aspens, easy shots. Both got a pass even though I had a bull tag in my pocket both times. The first got a pass because my buddy already had one down and I figured that was enough work at the time, the second because it was the end of the season, at dusk, and I decided not to ruin a perfectly good hunt with a lot of work.

This year I had countless opportunities to fill my Unit 4 cow tag on opening day. Instead I waited for my son-in-law to fill his, but he never pulled the trigger. Later I passed on a yearling (~18 months), after which I saw bulls every day but no more cows (in a unit where the cow/bull ratio is 40-1). This year I didn�t have a bull tag or it would have been filled easily.

The fun is in getting the opportunity � once you pull the trigger it�s a lot like work. You did well and didn't take a shot you weren't comfortable with. That trail will be there next year...

+1 Coyote Hunter.The killing is the easy part and the hunt is what counts.

Thank you all for your input on my questionable shot. And I thank those of you for the Veterans day comments, although it wasn't necessary at all, trust me on that one. I love this free country as much as all of you, we just have differant ways of showing it...which all means the same to me in my world.

Well, I'm off to bed for some more re-living of what could of/should of with my bull encounter.

Robert

Robert, that's a good thing in my book! (grin) I too will analyze a situation or encounter after it happens that night or the rest of the off season! I like analyzing both the successful & unsuccessful ones. I want to know why things worked or why they didn't, heck we all need to make adjustments now & then in our thinking & calling so as not to make the same mistakes in like encounters.

Sure there's a few encounters that nothing in the world could have changed the outcome but by & large most can be altered after considering the facts. I'll bet those are the ones we concentrate on the most! Not saying you should have done anything differently because I wasn't there in your shoes, only you can answer that question, great thing about it is you will come up with an answer, maybe not today but in time. No harm no foul. Good Luck!

ElkNut1

You never had the opportunity for an ethical shot. You didn't just spray lead and pray; you respected the animal. It's so easy for someone else (who was not there) to criticize and say "well I would have done such and such..." but the truth is, they have no real idea.

Did anybody ever say hunting elk is easy? If so, they were talking thourgh their hat! You can hunt with me any time.