I was wondering if anyone on here has hunted the reservation and if so, how was the experience? I just returned and was impressed with the number and quality of bulls but the service/guides/management could use an overhaul. For $13,500 I thought I was a little cheated on the services. Any opinions?

How about some examples of being "cheated" on services, etc.

For $13,500, everything should have been A+, bulls, guides, lodging, food, etc.

L.W.

Could you tell us about the hunt and the quality of the guides and give a bit more information?

In my opinion, if I had a better than average chance at a better than average trophy with plesant knowledgable guides and a clean camp I be happy. Even at $13,500, 5 star reservations and a gourmet chef would take away from the hunt for me.


ddj

That mirrors what I've heard (never hunted there) over and over again from people I know who have hunted there. Guides may show up drunk, hungover, late, or never. Quality of the elk herd is fantastic though, as you know, which keeps people coming back for more.

Did you get a good bull?

bmw, Did you speak with some prior customers before booking?

I have heard of a couple of nice bulls 1-400 and 1-380 taken but then drops down to the 320-330 range. If this holds true it would be a bad year for the rez. Many of these hunters return year after year and have advance reservations, reserve their same guide and it is or used to be a "celebrity" hunt of sorts. Perhaps things have changed? As I recall the cost of the hunt included nights at the Inn of the Mountain Gods and mounting of your elk, etc.

I guess Lonewolf doesn't want to talk about his hunt much hey!

Well, I'll speak my mind just for the hell of it savy. Now to pay out $14,000 plus for an elk hunt is very high dollar indeed in my eyes. I'll spend that money and hunt AFRICA first and get 10 animals for my trouble and be treated like a king in doing so. Just my 2-cents worth gents.

I hunt elk too but do not expect to see a 400 class bull and really don't care, satisfied just to be in those Rocky Mountains hunting and brining home a nice 5 x 5 or 6 x 6 regardless of the score. I hunt for meat as much as any set of horns and do so on public ground.

Its a lot of money that I don't have thats true.. but if I did... I'd spend that money here and take what I got, instead of giving it all away to Africa... we support other nations enough as it is without spending our hard earned hunting money in other countries.. just my take on it.

BTW when I hunt for meat I shoot cows/does instead of promising bulls....

Sorry about the late reply guys, I totally forgot about this post! To be more specific on what was annoying/unprofessional, the guides were horrible! I know there are some good ones mixed in there but the ones I was around either had beer breath at 430am, hungover and lazy, refuse to walk and stalk and would fall asleep in the truck watching a water hole, sit on their ass while we would try to track for blood, didnt have any essitial gear (flashlights, marking tape, radio, binos,etc)and overall had a horrible attitude. What other questions are there? I will answer much quicker this time!

my in-laws live in Ruidoso and I've spent some time in that country including hiking Nogal peak where lots of elk roam about. I roll my eyes every time I'm in the Inn and see the pricing. Unfortunately, alcohol and Indians don't often mix well. Like someone else said, for that kinda dough I'm headed for Africa and a whole lot better experience.

Any pics though would be great!

The res are other nations.

I've guided on private ranches adjacent or close to both the Jicarilla and Mescalaro reservations and deeded ground.......I'm not surprised........

Like I said, Alcohol and Indians...

I get emails from a friend who is a missionary on the Mescalaro Reservation and works with the Youth. He will mention a student who has what it takes to get off the reservation and go to college but is the primary care giver for the family because the father is either dead, gone or an alcoholic. Very sad situation. But I do understand why your hunt is as you described. On another forum I heard the Mescalaro hunt described as the most expensive self guided hunt.


ddj

My FIL was an accountant at the sawmill down there on the hill for years and said the same thing about the occisional promising youth; along with the elk crossing signs they need an Indian crossing sign since they seem to wander around in the dark once they get into the bottle.

Sadly, the missing/incarcerated/dead father figure motif is similar to what I experienced working for the Public Defender's office in San Fran.

I have been told the exact same story many times regarding the Jicarilla. Enough times that I have concluded that it must be at least partially true. I can only contrast that with our hunts that we have had at Vermejo Park Ranch, which are in the same price range. VPR has about 914 square miles of area, compared to 720 for Muscalaro, but over twice the number of elk on VPR....I'll stick with VPR.

You are treated like royalty 24/7 by the staff. There is zero (absolutely zero) internal bickering among the staff, guides, etc, which I have witnessed many times on other ranches. Everyone there, including the guides, appreciates your visiting with them, etc. This is another ironic observation: As far as I can tell, Ted has laid down the law on professionalisim and not a single swear word being said. We never heard one guide say anything as mild as "Man, that was a helluva shot you made there!"...it just didn't happen.Ironic because Teddy is the most embarrassing guy to be around you have ever seen if you have wives and kids with you...he quail hunts down here and you would not believe the cussin and carrying on. He used to cuss Jane Fonda like a dog. Our Viet Nam vets might not see anything wrong with that!

I've heard many good things about Vermejo Park also.
That said, what about the White Mountain Apache Indian Reservation? Has anybody here hunted elk there? I've seen magnificent bulls that have come off of that place...just monsters. The cost is unreal and they have a long waiting list to get on the place despite the price. Can those here who have hunted on the place tell us about their experiences there?

With the Jicarilla being mentioned, I have to say that, having worked with many of the tribal guides, they are not all created equal. There are a few that are truly GREAT hunters and very professional. Yes, the stories about drunk guides are not unfounded, but they are usually associated with what they refer to as "cow guides" meaning cow elk guides. The Jic is different from the Mescalero in that you contract with the guide of your choice, from a list of licensed Tribal guides, you are not assigned one. This is an advantage but is also tougher as in most cases the best guides are usually already booked with repeat clients( especially fro the deer hunt). There are certain guides you always hear about for a reason.

Ironically, I live about an hour from The Mescalero, but know less about it. I stop in every year to see what kinda bulls they are killing but don't know any of the guides. I would say on average you can kill a better bull on Mescalero but they are two completely different types of hunts. The Jic will be a cheaper but the accommodations will be better at the Mescalero. Both are motels but the INN is a resort with golfing and gambling and shopping close by, which I think is a big draw for hunters towing trophy wives.
Bottom line, I think you can kill a decent 320 bull at both places fairly easy.


Now that being said, there is another reservation that blows the other two out of the water as far as trophy quality goes and that is Acoma Pueblo. If you want a chance at a 400" bull then Acoma gets the nod. It's not cheap, but not much more than Mescalero and cheaper than the two big AZ reservations. It is a dry Res(no alcohol) and the hunts are run out of the nicest tent camp there is complete with Hot water showers and flush toilets (you always know where your guide is!!!LOL). There is even an in camp massuese!!!!

One thing is for sure, game management, as a whole, is certainly a high priority on most Reservations(and large private ranches, for that matter) so the quality and quantity is usually there.

Interesting you mention White Mtn: We saw a hunt on White Mtn this weekend on TV. I remarked to our son that a hunt there cost's 30K and you can't get on their list, as the waiting list is comprised of only repeat clients and NO new clients are being accepted at this time.

He had his laptop there and linked to WM. If he was reading it correctly, a hunt there now cost's 18K and they are accepting new clients....economic times may have didctated a change even for WM!

Biggest bulls I have ever seen though came from San Carlos....wow....off the charts there!

Godogs,You're absolutely right about the economy. White Mountain is at 18,000 plus a trophy fee. I've heard(more rumors!LOL) that you tip at the beginning of the hunt and that correlates to the type of bull you kill.... Again, I don't know if that's true or not but I've heard that.

I think my all-time dream elk hunt would be to hunt Dry Lake on the San Carlos with Homer Stevens and hopefully I wouldn't shoot a bull until the last evening so I could soak up hunting with an Elk hunting legend in an Elk mecca!!!!

Amen NMpistolero....would love to snag one of those San Carlos bulls. My best bull went 358 2/8" from VPR, so I guess I shouldn't be griping.

You know something? I wouldn't really have a problem tipping at the beginning of a hunt...that way we BOTH know what is expected from each other. Interesting concept....

One hunt that is a heart breaker is the elk hunts put on at the Double H ranch. My elk hunting buddy went, spent 18K after being told he could have his pick of B&C bulls (literally). Like fishing in a bucket. They carried on to him that his only problem would by picking which 370+" bull he wanted to shoot...man they laid it on thick! That week one guy killed a small 6x6 out of the whole hunting party...that was it. We found out later that HH's success rate hovers around 5% by RMEF's own published statistics! Sorry...I support RMEF, but I won't spend 18K on their ranch.

+1 on the Acoma, a friend does their taxidermy and guides for them and they kill some toads every year.

Helluva bull anywhere Godogs! Jim Baker is a neat ol guy. Kinda weird that he's not up there anymore.

SLM Yessir, Carl is THE go-to guy for BIG bulls IMO. He's perfected that signature look that is so awesome with those old bulls....And him and Trish are such good people that I don't mind all the money I give to them!!!! LOL

Carl's work is awesome and you are right, you will not find better people.

NM, Jim was a hoot....but was done in by the politics of his situation...can't speak anymore on that though. He is living it up on he and his wife's property they had in Key West from what they told me. He recently (last year or so) brought suit against Turner Enterprises for some sort of wrongful termination issue...have no idea how that turned out. Check it out here:

http://www.santafenewmexican.com/localnews/Lawsuit--Ranch-boss-pushed-religion

I would jump off a bridge personally if I had to go from VPR to Key West....he had been @ VPR since 1975!