I'm getting a new 7mm-08 soon and am wondering what the conventional wisdom here is saying about a good bullet to shoot for elk.

Assuming reasonable accuracy and velocity (say, 2,750 fps for a 139-140gr and up near 3,000 fps for the 120gr), what would you run for elk out to 300 yards (maximum, shots would normally be much closer)?

Barnes TSX 140gr
Nosler Accubond 140gr
Trophy Bonded Tip 140gr
Hornady GMX 139gr
Barnes TSX 120gr

I've killed elk with the 7mm-08 150gr Partitions but think some of the newer bullets mught give me a touch more velocity and better accuaracy.

140 TSX.. They worked out of my .284 at 453yds and 210yds.. They were leavin the muzzle at 3350 though..

Sounds awesome! I might could squeak out 2,800 or so outta the puny little 7-08....

When I did it, I was using 150-gn Partitions as you mention using. I didn't kill an elk with them. I think that'd be a good choice.

I suppose if I were to run my 7-08 for elk now I'd load a tipped 140-gn mono bullet, if such a thing exists.

Mmmm....really? How did you pull that off? Just curious...

.284 diameter.. Didnt mention the engine.. Lazzeroni short mag..

actually they are closer to 3450 at the muzzle...

I used to really like the 145 grain Speer Grand Slam in 7/08 and .280 for deer, goat, and elk. I read somewhere that Speer changed the design a few years ago. Some say its an improvement, others say its not as good now. I dont know.

I think I'd go with a 139 gr. Hornady GMX these days if going after elk with a 7/08.

140 grain Hornady flat base spire point or 140 grain Nosler Ballistic tip would be my choice. These two bullets work all the time every time in the 7mm-08 with IMPRESSIVE internal damage, which is what kills. You sure as heck don't need a premium bullet. The low velocity at 100-300 yards doesn't allow premiums to perform at their best. Cup and core bullets do a WHOLE lot more damage internally. If all you want is an exit hole, then the XMR or XLC in 140 grain weight would be the ticket. I love the little round and have two 7mm-08's. Premiums just don't get me excited, unless you are running them light (120 grains). Flinch

I agree with Flinch, but just to be different, I shoot 130 grain conventional Speer bullets, and they kill elk just fine going a hair under 3,000 fps with 44.5 grains of IMR 4064. A cow moose my wife shot only went 30 yards, too. This is an old Bob Milek load which shoots very well in both a Remington Model 7 and a Tikka T3. Contrary to what you might read on this website, big game animals haven't become armor plated in the past 20 years.

Oohhh.......OK. I thought it was the Winchester version.....no fair

I wonder if the new Deep Curl bullet will do as well?

I took a couple of elk running the old-style 145gr Grand Slam out of a .284 Win with 20" barrel (Browning BLR). It did a bang up job, that's for sure, as neither bull went more than a couple of steps after meeting Mr. Speer.

I haven't heard the best things about the new Grand Slams, though.

140 gr Nosler Accu Bomb...

Have used 7mm-08 120TTSX on one elk and one buffalo and have good confidence in the kills. Elk was 230ish plus and reared over-backwards and slid down the back side of hill maybe 15 yards. I haven't been able to get 3350 though.

150 Partitions or 140 AB's would be great as would a 145 Speer Hotcore, 150 Ballistic Tip, 154 Hornady, Sierra Gameking's, etc., etc.

308 based hulls are pretty easy on bullets at 2,700 to 2,850 fps...

The whole point about a premium expanding bullet is that it's supposed to still expand at long range (low velocity) and hold together at close range (high velocity). The Nosler partition was the first premium bullet I ever used and still does exactly that just fine. A bullet that just does one or the other isn't a premium bullet as far as I'm concerned no matter what they charge for it.

Regards,

Chuck

160 Accus ahead of full load of H414 at about 2750 is my 7-08 elk poison.

x2......Perfect answer. Heard tell of Core lockts killn' chit too

I haven't heard someone pull something out of Bob Milek's book in a while - now you have my attention. Maybe those 145gr Speers that my 7x57 loves so much might do more than I think...

120gr TSX

Milek was my favorite writer growing up. He had a great take on selling real life experince. If I were to take my 7-08 elk hunting tomorrow I would shoot 154 Hornady's or 140 Partition. Tomorrow my answer may be different, 140 TSX or AB.

Like Brad said, that range of MV just aint as demanding on bullets as compared to some of the other choices.

Joseph

....TSX

140's trump 120, hint

I agree with Chuck. 140 Partition is the first thing I'd reach for...but would not turn up my nose at a TTSX or Swift Aframe either."Think" penetration first expansion second;getting both, in that order,is nice to have.

Wife used a 140 gr TSX out of her 7-08 (ai running low 2900s) to take a decent 5x5 at over 300 yards. They worked for her. Expect they would work for you.

Today, 7mm elk bullets are an embarrassment of riches.....

Glad to hear Partitions and Hornady's mentioned in this thread. Makes me feel my bullet selection for elk is not antiquated yet.

Then to see the 145gr Speer listed...am I dreaming? I have one 7x57 that it really shines in. Used it on Mule deer but never poked an Elk with it.

I am going to try a 120 NBT on one in a couple of weeks out of a 7-08. It has punched through shoulders on deer and exited for me. I will probably avoid the shoulder on elk, though.

139 gr GMX, or the 140gr Accubond.

140 tsx worked for me.
edited to add try varget powder.

What makes you think that.Terminal performance difference will be dick....hint

I would make a small wager that any of the bullets listed would do the job.

I would lean toward the 139gr GMX though. No reason in particular.

My friend's 14 yo daughter shot her cow elk with a 7mm-08 140gr NP. Classic NP. Nice hole through the heart, recovered offside under the skin, front half of the bullet gone, dead elk.

140 Barnes or GMX.

7mm-08 for elk

This guy seems to think highly of the 7mm-08 with corelocks and elk.

This guy is a dick. If he thinks a .280 would have done any different at 70 yards he's just
proving the whole story is BS.

I've killed two bulls with two shots from a BLR in 7mm-08 and neither took more than a couple of steps with one DRT.

Flinch is right. The beauty of the 7-08 is that you dont need tough bullets at the relatively moderate speeds it generates. Three of my four children killed deer, elk and black bear with the same 7-08, starting when they were 12. It was loaded with 140gr. ballistic tips doing about 2650 fps at the muzzle and it penetrated well and I never saw any of the softish ballistic tips blow up.

A big added bonus to using cheapo bullets is that you get to shoot a lot for cheap and you become very familiar with your rifle and load when you can afford to bust rocks all day.

You can practice with the cheaper 140-gn NBT's, then drop a 140 Accubond into the same load for a bit of added insurance. Or at least, that works in my 7-08 and (with 165's) in my 30-06 as well.

While hunting Thanksgiving weekend in the Texas Hill Country, my son and I stumbled upon a huge Stag that obviously escaped from one of the high fence ranches in the area.

120gr. TSX was effective.

IIRC Elk (John Haviland) and his boys have killed a pile of elk with 7mm-08 rifles, with a variety of bullets...

Is this guy serious???? I just read his account and having a tough time believing the course of events, let alone his recommendations within 80 yds..

A B&C measurer in my area has accumulated a whole warehouse full of N.A trophies using a couple of 7-08s in XP-100 handguns. He has numerous sheep, mulies, elk and a ton of exotics to his credit. The bullet he used and preferred? The Nosler 140BT.

Riflesmith Darrell Holland has take several elk and a whole gamut of African plains game using the 140NBT out of his 7-08AI.

Like Flinch stated, the 7-08 does not require premium bullets to work well. For myself, I have confidence in the 140NPT or 140NBT, and the 140AB would be a good choice too judging by others folks experiences.

MtnHtr

Oh well, here goes....

I got to admit I've never seen an elk killed with a 140 Noz BT out of a 7mm, but unless the 140 grainer is a LOT more robust, and sprinkled with more Pixie Dust, than other BT's..........

....the BT would be among my last choice in anything with a MV over, say, 500 fps

I've killed or witnessed the kill on at least a dozen elk in the past 25 years with BT's--from my personal experience with early production BT's out of a 270 to recent years guiding and witnessing the effect of BT's with 7mm's, 30 cal's, 338 cal's, and a 35 Whelen--ALL of them resulted in a elk race to one extent or the other. Not to mention a couple races with muleys and one pronghorn.

It's actually a bit of a joke with some guides I know; If the client is using BT's, we wear our track shoes........

In light of all the other good bullets out there, the BT is waaay too frangible.

A TSX in 150gr (preferable) or a 140.

My first choice is going to be a 150 Noz Pt, or a 140 Pt--Partitions in the medium or heavyish weights still seem to perform the most consistently across the widest range of velocities, with as good of penetration as any.


Casey

Being a guide, you know that clients can't shoot for sheet, so you can't blame the bullet for crappy shot placement or using too light of a bullet for the caliber ;o). I personally have killed 7 bulls with 7mm mag and 140 grain Nosler Ballistic tips moving along from 3,200-3,300 fps. Ranges were from 150-420 yards. Only one bull moved out of his tracks and that was because I muffed the shot at 420 yards in a blinding snow storm. He went 3 steps and tipped over. I killed 4 other bull elk with a 30-06 and 165 grain Nosler Ballistic tips. Oh, and a 38" Shiras bull at 25 yards with the .30-06 and 165 ballistic tips. All dropped at the shot...dead. I recovered about half of the bullets just under the skin on the off side out of the .30-06, including the moose. They are perfectly mushroomed and retained about 60% of their weight over all. The others exited with golf ball sized exit holes. The 7mm bullets retained about 40% of their weight on the recovered bullets. A couple did come apart, but only after shattering the shoulder bones and making mush out of everything, inside. I have shot them through shoulders, face on, quartering away, didn't matter, they always stir things up inside in a big way. I couldn't care less about exit holes, which the vast majority of hunters hang their hat on.

Turn the 140 grain Ballistic Tip down a notch in speed from the 7mm mag to 7mm-08 velocity and it REALLY shines. I have actually killed 18 pigs and 10 deer with the 120 grain Hornady hollow point shot out of the 7mm-08 at a smidge over 3,000 fps. It has been a heck of a bullet for under 300 lb. critters. I have dumped them with clean one shot kills past 550 yards. It is an amazing and over looked round. I think it is due to the lack of rifles in the caliber. The ones that are available have 18-20 inch barrels and short stocks. Sure, they are neeto to pack around, but the velocity suffers. I just picked one up with a 24" barrel (thank you Remington). Love that round and I could rule the world with just that one round in in my stable. It digest every bullet on the market easily and accurately. If you want a heck of a varmint round, the 120's are amazing (I have shot dozens of prairie dogs past 400 yards). If deer, pigs, or any other medium game is on the menu, 120-140 grain cup and core bullets rein supreme. If you want elk and moose, 140-160 grain bullets work fabulous and again you don't need the expense of premiums. Let's not forget, they can be light (22-24" pipe) and are still gentle on the shoulder. My favorite one is 7 lbs. all up in a McMillan Remington Classic stock with a 22" buggy whip barrel. Everyone that shoots it or hunts with it falls in love with it. Flinch

I must have really, really, bad karma with Ballistic Tips........



Casey

I like clients shooting Ballistic Tips. I know if they make a bad hit (gut shot, too far back, too low etc., the BT will still stir up stuff inside and we will get the critter. Premium bullets with the same type hits are a lost animal that will have a long miserable death. But hey, the bullet made and exit hole..lol ;o) Flinch

U must Casey...grin

Seriously, I've used the 150 NBT out of my Mashburn @ 3250-3300 on a ton of game and never once found it lacking. Far, close game big or small it just lights them up like a porcupine into a baloon. And I've never found one in game.

The 200 has a been a total rock star out of my 338/06 as has the 70 and 95 out of my 6/06.

As for the 7/08 and elk, the 139 Horn is at the top of my list, the 120, 140, 150 NBT would all rock as well! Plus I really like the 160 Sierra HPBT.

Hunt hard and hunt often!

Dober

Mark, are you saying the 139 grain Hornady sucked? I don't like the boat tail at all, but the flat base corelock is a winner. Flinch

Nope I didn't write that very good, I'll modify it. I totally love the bullet, the flat base has given me better accuracy for the most part but either one is fine with me.

I use the flat base 139 as a fire forming load out of my Mashburn and it shoots like a house a fire and kills like all get out!

Dober

Evidently the reputation of the early Ballistic Tips lives on in some places, and the people that still harbor a grudge can't tell the difference between bullet performance and shooter performance.

I've shot a lot of Ballistic Tips from .25 to .338 and .375 into various animals over the past decade and they all worked just fine, with more than enough penetration for the job at hand. Anybody who wounds and loses an elk with the 200-grain .338 BT made a really lousy shot.

I kinda' figured you would weigh in and chide me.........


Don't assume the BT's were bad hits--they weren't.

But if all I had to go on were performance of BT's from almost 25 years ago, that would be one thing--but it ain't.

I spent practically a full extra day packing elk meat out of a canyon in NM when a client made a dead on shot on a nice bull at 200 yds with a 180gr BT handload out of a 300WM, that bull ran 75 yards to the rim and stumbled, bumbled and tumbled clear to the bottom. That was three years ago.

I've seen roughly a dozen elk killed with BT's since they appeared, most in the last 10 years--there has been a chase of some sort with every one. For better or worse, they don't penetrate very well when me and my karma are present.....

I have an entertaining story with the early BT's, but it would read like a novelette


Casey

Most but not all the guides I've crossed paths with in elk country were just old recruited ranch hands. They hired on to give horse and trail rides to old retired doctors and dentists, maybe shoot an average animal and then whoop it up. These ranch hands had little knowledge of anything gunny and judged folks by how tall in the saddle they rode. lols

Keep in mind I stated "most".

MtnHtr

I know what you mean--same for most outfitters. They know how to hunt, but technical knowledge of firearms, ballistics, or even technical knowledge of the quarry is an exception rather than the rule.


Casey

Ditto here as well on the issue of guides and rifle/caliber knowledge.

I've met a handful of "guides" over the years in Idaho's backcountry. Without exception, everyone of them were loggers, ranchers, or the like moonlighting for a few extra dollars.

Doesn't mean they didn't know anything about calibers I suppose, but they certainly weren't JB.

I will take every crummy, explosive poor penetrating ballistic tip you can send my way ;o) I Love them!

Just curious and not trying to chide you in any way, but really, would a hit from any other bullet anchored any of those critters you "chased"? Premiums make exit holes, but do little in stirring up the innards of critters, unless some good bone is hit. An elk stumbling 75 yards in ANY situation from a good hit sure isn't uncommon. Again, it isn't due to the bullet not doing it's job. I'm sure the inner workings were completely scrambled....yes? A premium would have ONLY offered an exit hole, over an above what the ballistic tip did...right? I would love to hear your stories about them. Not the elaborations, but what really went down with no emotional BS added in. Caliber, bullet weight, hit location, distance. I love gleaming information like that. Not to get anyone upset, just for informational comparisons. Whenever I hear a "bullet failure" the original story sounds like the bullet blew up as soon as it left the muzzle. After digging into it a little more, the shooter blew the shot, the bullet hit a tree, went through it and hit the animal in a bad spot or something like that. The bullet didn't penetrate and made a nasty wound. Of course, the bullet was to blame. I laugh when I hear the stories of them blowing up on the hide of a deer...uh hu....sure....and what did the bullet hit before reaching the deer? I have seen all kinds of weird things happen with premiums and all kinds of bullets. You get enough blood under your fingernails and you are bound to see some weird stuff that makes you scratch your head for the rest of your life. I have some of those bullet stories. I still can't figure them out. Flinch

I have shot a couple of thousand of the 139 grain Hornadys through 7mm mags. It was my favorite long range rock chuck bullet for many years. I am quite fond of them, that is why I asked if you were dogging on them or if it was a typo. I figured if they were that bad, I would have had something weird happen over the course of a couple of thousand rounds ;o). They are extremely accurate and really put the hurt on stuff. I used to buy them in bulk packs of 2,000 at a time for about $.08 a piece. I figured they would last me many years. They didn't last long at all. I would like to go back 10 years and "stock up" on all the Hornady seconds. I still have a couple of thousand, but they are going quick...especially with the 7mm-08. It is just too fun to shoot. Flinch

Flinch,

When did you first start shooting a 7mm-08? I know you used to shoot a 7mm RM and a long barreled .30-06.

I love the 139 Hornady SP. I have only shot them into mulies, but they have never stopped inside. Didn't get good accuracy from the BTSP but the flat base SP has been terrific.

140 btips flat out shoot in my 7mm-08, but I would prefer an Accubond or Partition if elk was on the menu. I do feel better about having an exit hole. Truth be told, I haven't shot enough elk to really know if one bullet is better than another.

I have hunted often, but only killed four. All four took a 160 Accubond launched from my 7mmRM. All four died quickly. One bullet did not exit and that was a really weird experience. I shot a cow quartering hard towards me, but ended up not finding a single drop of blood. Literally, no blood whatsoever, even when I walked up to her. I couldn't even find an entrance wound. Thank goodness for fresh snow, or I may have walked right past her as she ran over the ridge and slid about 30 feet off of the trail.

Once I began butchering her out, the trauma inside was amazing. The bullet definitely did its job, just couldn't have known had I not found her. The only thing I can think of is that the "crease" I hit between the front shoulder and the neck was soft enough not to open up quickly. Once through some flesh it looked like it should. I wonder if the bullet took out the heart and everything stopped pumping and that is why no blood from the mouth etc. I can see blood not making it out to the entrance wound with fat and muscle getting in the way.

FH

In my experience, few entrance holes provide much blood, if any on the front end of elk. The tissue and fat usually seals them up. I have experienced this a lot with elk frontal hits. Kind of strange, but happens a lot.

I still shoot a long barreled 7mm mag for elk, when I rifle hunt them. I primarily bow hunt them now (a lot less people and it is much warmer ;o). My primary deer/everything rifle is a 7mm-08. I shoot the 7mag a lot as well, but the 7mm-08 is just so dang fun to bang away with and only weighs 7 lbs.

I sold the long barreled .30-06 a while back, but it accounted for a lot of elk, moose and deer. I just hated the Model 70 action and won't own another one. I will have another one soon, but in a Remington. I dearly love the caliber, but the 7mm mag simply lights stuff up with more authority and has a much flatter trajectory past 400 yards. Okay, so I am a 7mm slut, but I am a good 7mm slut ;o) Flinch

The nosler partition is not without its problems, expecially if driven at high impact velocities. At such velocities, the front portion of the the bullet is subject to separation, and all is left is the solid rear protion of the bullet.

With the advent of the X bullet and the bonding process, it could be argued that the partion is now a premium bullet in "price" only.

Flame suit on.

GB

...agreed. I hate the damn things. Nothing like a premium bullet that sheds half it's weight on impact and works like a wad cutter after that. There are MUCH better bullets out there now. It was state of the art 30 years ago, but pales in comparison to many that are out now, in my own personal experience. Federal's Trophy Bonded bullet is the best of all worlds, in my experience. It expands like a ballistic tip on impact, but creates a major mushroom and plows through with a huge wound channel. The bonding process holds it all together at extreme velocity as well. I haven't been able to destroy one on critters. Flinch

I've actually heard veryu good things about Federal's Fusion ammo. Apparently, it expands well, penetrates well, retains its weight and does massive internal damage.

Yes, bullets that penetrate well on elk do make a difference--in my experience. I may not be an expert at most things in life, but I killed my first elk in 1970 and have been killing elk fairly regularly since. I've also observed more elk killed by family, friends, and clients, and by now got a pretty good idea how to evaluate bullet performance when I'm up to my elbows in blood and guts.

I've killed as many elk with conventional cup & core bullets, and even bonded bullets, as I have premium bullets--which is why I've learned to like premium bullets.

There are regular questions on the forums by folks asking if their favorite bullet (x, y, z, etc) is sufficient for elk. There is ALWAYS enough answers to assure them it's plenty good. Apparently every bullet, in every caliber, in every cartridge, at every velocity, currently manufactured is sufficient these days.

I mean, I kill elk with my 56# recurve and Zwickey broadheads, so I guess every rifle and bullet is probably overkill

And yes, I've seen bullets do things they weren't supposed to do, and I've seen critters respond to hits in odd ways. But for whatever reason, an exit hole tends to produce a very sick elk, that immediately acts sick, doesn't go far, or just dies on the spot.

The bottom line is this; Premium bullets seem to produce less drama, and I've chased enough elk over the years that I like less drama.

I've yet to see a Ballistic Tip make it to the far ribs of an elk.

Dober sometimes uses a mean-azz 7mm Mashburn with a wimpy bullet, I sometimes use a wimpy-azz 243 with a tough, deep penetrating bullet.

I guess it all comes out in the wash.......


Casey

Casey,

I suspect that many of your clients were using BT's they had on hand for a while--though the .338 has always had a very heavy jacket. The 180 .30 got a similar jacket maybe 3-4 years ago, and now works extremely well.

One of the odd ones is the 120 7mm. This got a super-heavy jacket before any other BT, due to frequent use as a silhouette target bullet. The early version broke up on steel and didn't knock those rams over consistently, so the jacket was really beefed up. I know a guy who's killed several elk with it from a long-barreled 7mm Remington Magnum, including some big bulls. He says he's never recovered one from a rib shot.

John,
that is an interesting story about the 120gr 7mm BT-before I always kind of scratched my head when folks mentioned some(big game) BT's being 'tougher' than others.

John, that 120 is a scary-accurate little bastid, too. Love that bullet.

So since it's tough and all, is it still a fast opener like BT's are reputed to be on game?

Yeah, it is. They all still have a very fast-opening, fragmenting front end, but the jacket thickness in the rear varies some, depending on the bullet and its "normal" applications. One reason the 180 BT got the super-heavy jacket in the rear is that people kept insisting on shooting elk with them, even though Nosler suggested the Partition was the bullet for that purpose. It's also the reason the .338 had the super-heavy jacket from the bullet's very beginning in the early 1990's.

The 200 grain .338 bullet is one amazing bullet. I have seen them do some amazing things. The last one I witnessed was shot out of a .338 Win mag. at 2,800 fps. The HUGE cow elk was at 300 yards quartering away and up hill (the hunter was shooting down hill at it). The bullet took out the near side rib, removed 3 inches of the sternum completely (yes, I measured it), shattered the off side scapula and knee joint and exited. The off side leg was hanging on by a little bit of skin. The lungs and heart were soup. You could put your arm through the hole it made in the bottom of the chest. A bullet that completely powders that much bone and still exits is completely amazing. Needless to say, she dropped and was dead. I have seen 180 grain Ballistic tips do the same with huge mule deer and elk. I just can't buy into the fact "They blow up on hair." Never seen it, not remotely out of dozens of ballistic tip kills. Again, I will take all the junky ballistics you can send my way. ;o) Flinch

The Partition blows the front portion because that is what it was designed to do...leaving the rear portion to drive through.But one advantage to the Partition is that even at long range, where velocity has fallen off, the NPT will still expand reliably.

I've killed game from ante;ope to elk with them to almost 500 yards,so I know they work....and a few animals in distances measured in feet, not yards...and know they work there,too.

So, I would have a hard time thinking that they in any way, have any "problems".

As to the wadcutter effect,I have seen enough X bullets to know that they,also, will blow the petals under high impact velocity,and leave you with the same wadcutter effect.

As to things like bonded bullets, I've been hunting with the original bonded bullet, the Bitterroot since sometime in the early 80's IIRC...like the TBBC and Swift Aframe(which came along to emulate the BBC),they behave somewhat differently than a Partition; generally open to a wide frontal area under high velocity,and maybe not so widely at longer distances where velocity has fallen off...(but still widely enough, even against light resistance, as I saw on a pronghorn at about 400 yards one day with a 270 and 130 BBC)and frequently (always?)retain 95%+ of their weight, regardless what you drive them into and at what speed.

Again, because they were designed to do just that.

Both these styles of bullets behave a bit differently, for a lot of reasons having to do with their designs and the materials from which they are made;but I know they are both solid choices for about anything,and both are very dependable in lethal effect.

I suppose its asking too much to expect the bullet companies communicate some design change to the handloading public. We end up relying on Mule Deer and others to update what the companies have done. Everyone wants to use the "best" bullet for the job but "bullet roulette" adds a dimension we don't need.

Casey,
Wow! Zwickeys and a recurve! Way to go. What brand recurve?
Ok, back to regular programming.

The problem I see with the general hunting public is, we all judge a bullet's performance differently. That is why the bullet makers have so many varieties. I find that many guys have one mind set on bullet performance and look at little else. If the bullet doesn't meet their specific requirement, it fails. For example;

1. Bullet MUST exit all the time, every time with bone crushing performance, PERIOD! This mind set or requirement is the most common (Barnes X bullets and Fail Safes are the leader in this department, with partitions being a little ways behind).

2. Bullet must destroy everything internally, with a lot of hydrostatic shock and massive tissue upset. Exit hole is not important.(Nosler Ballistic tips, Sierra Game Kings, and Hornady Amax's are their favorite bullets)

3. Bullet must have a "perfect" text book mushroom when recovered, if it is recovered. (Federal Trophy Bonded, Accubond, A-Frame are the preferred bullet).

4. Must have HIGH B.C. for long range hunting (Berger, Amax, Match Kings)

Everyone I have talked to and hunted with fits into one of the above groups and will argue their point profusely. Are any of them wrong? No, but everyone else that doesn't think like "they" do is wrong and will only wound game ;o) Flinch

Flinch,

I have seen the 200-grain .338 Ballistic Tip do the same sorts of things, a number of times. Yet supposedly it can't, because it's a Ballistic Tip!

You hit the nail on the head about judging bullet performance: Everybody has their own idea of what's perfect performance, and not all of the opinions have much to do with how quickly the animal died.

In fact I did an article about the mythical "perfect" big game bullet once, quoting a few bullet manufacturers who are driven nuts by all the customers who demand The Greatest and Only Big Game Bullet Ever Made.

I had a couple bad experiences with 140 BT's out of a 7mm-08 in the early years and that made a bad impression, but I since overcame that and have used a couple 180 & 200's out of my .338-06 and they've been awesome.

If it's the one I'm thinking of, I was quite impressed with the results. I learned lots that day, thanks for the help.

I'm thinking it was the "one". Very impressive shooting and results. You never did say how the meat turned out. I am sure it was delicious. Did you ever find that nasty hat you always wore? Your wife made me throw it away. Sorry dude...she made me do it. ;o) Flinch

Turned out great. I wondered what happened to that hat... I'm getting a new one ready as we speak.

You guys getting much snow? Folks were cancelling stuff here because of a 2-4" forcasted snow...

I and a friend of mine had some unfavorable experiences with early BTs in 270 (130gr) and 30-06 (150gr) both driven at maximum velocities. I haven't completely regained my confidence in them when driven real fast. That said, I have come to love the 115 BT out of my 257 Roberts on deer. It will go through both shoulders without a hiccup.

If I were to go elk hunting with a 7mm08, I'd feel more comfortable with a 140 or 150 Partition. I have never had a Partition fail me.

You summed it up pretty well there Flinch...Me, killed a lot of deer with the SMK, Amax, BT and SST bullets and never had a problem but have no experience with elk.I use the TSX in my 243 because it drives a little deeper if the angle is not ideal. My 7-08 should be ready this spring if LA Precision stays on schedule so I find this thread pretty interesting.

I've shot a bull and a cow with handloaded 140gr. Nosler Partitions. 5x5 bull was a head shot at 80 yds. DRT! The cow was a angling front shoulder shot at a measure 426 yds. Bullet hit front shoulder and exited on the otherside near the hind quarter!!! Both shots fired from an 18" barreled Model 7. Shot several deer also with this load and I have never needed more than one shot so far. Hate to mess with something proven but will try some TSX soo.I haven't tried the Barnes bullets yet but am hoping for good results. I got a couple boxes to load but haven't gotten around to it yet.
Good Luck,
WW

My friend got his white tail deer this year with a 165 grain new style ballistic tip bullet out of a 300 win mag. The bullet hit high in the back broke one shoulder and the spine but didn't exit the deer. The bullet did expand to a classic mushroom shape. I don't think that I'd be shooting at an elks shoulder with a 165 grain ballistic tip any time soon.

The 243 loaded with 95g partitions is my choice for cow elk, never an issue.

I shot two large bulls in Az with a 7 mag loaded with the old style ballistic tip at 3200 fps, range was about 100 yards-150 on a dead run. The shots hit dead center of the animal, height and length. They were dead at the shot. One of them never kicked, the other kicked twice...go figure.

I have no experience on a 7/08 on elk...

Any of the ones you list would be fine, though I would hesitate about the Hornady GMX because it's relatively untried, and because it's a harder metal that might not open up as well as 7mm-08 velocities at 300 yards. All the others would be great, slight preference for the TSX. YOu didn't list partitions, but 140 partitions work great in 7mm-08 on elk.

Found this article while researching the same subject. I think the 140 tsx is what I would run.
http://backcountryhunter.blogspot.com/?zx=993b8bf1590e5e29

The thread is almost 4 years old. He probably picked a bullet by now.

No, he's still in the load development stage.

I was wondering if he was still with us?

Too bad I, and most likely others can't read it.

I feel bad for the hunters that don't read internet forums and use Core-Lokt's year after year to take their Elk.

I don't feel bad for them the ammo works and they spend their extra time playing with their kids, dogs and/ or mechanical toys as well as fulfilling their sexual obligations to their significant others instead reading bullsh*t on the inet. Seems like 60-75% of the adamant posters on this thread including the op are no longer here. Yeah I said that and as far as NBT's go it's really simple if they are in a black box with a red and green lable walk on by them because they are old thin jacket stock that gave problems sometimes. Bullet placement allways trumps what kind of bullet.
Next this thread is a classic example of a "sleeping dog that should have been left alone". Magnum Man

+10, I have always felt that if all hunters were required by law to use a simple 30-06 with a quality 4X scope and 180 gr factory round nose Core-Lock ammunition. we would have a lot more hunters and a lot fewer sniper wannabes.

I have a 7x57, 7mm08 and 7mm rem mag. All are great rifles but none would be my first choice for Elk in our Grizzly infested country (NW WY).

300 WinMag stoked with 200 gr TSXs makes me more comfortable.
"Four shots quick"

What a load of bullschit.

Funny you post about the black box with red and green. Have been working off a couple sleeves of these since the early 90's and was wondering if they were the bad old ones. They are 165gr and have worked like magic on whitetails in a 20" 308. No joke but they have become my benchmark for quick kills without undue meat destruction, and they usually exit. YMMV

Not funny at all DB ,I am glad they are working for you. Problems of early NBT in certain calibers and weight coming apart is well documented. In my case it was the first year production of the 130 gr 277 bullets, I only had to shoot 1 whitetail buck 3 times with them to know I wouldn't try them on any more. Some where in there year wise Nosler thicken the jackets and improved them so they work like they are supposed to. They changed the boxes and the labeling scheme, I use the new packaging as a cutoff point, knowing I'll get the improved bullets. So far I've used the new 120 gr .284, 150 gr .277 and 150,165, and 180gr 30 cals on meat with satisfaction. You obvious got a lot with thicker jackets in old packaging, good luck. Magnum Man

Out of their Bushnell scoped rifles.

Want to know how to get 12,783 posts ?

Use 30 different user names?

Maybe ironic was a better choice. I am aware of the problems with the earliest BT's. I remember the introduction and they were not sold as hunting bullets but a target bullet. Just was stating that I have wondered what generation mine came from. Last year I tried some 140's from the 6.5x55 and was kinda disappointed. Just two deer and the bullets did open, but the results do not seem to be the same as my 308. Need more examples to know for sure.

Well done..

Dillon : I do not recall the Ballistic Tips being introduced as a target bullet.

My recollection is they were a replacement for the solid base design. And the old solid base was marketed as the perfect dear bullet.

Multiple personalities has to be on the list too. And it helps if you have a lot of imaginary friends to cover your back.

I would think most hunting bullets out of a 7 08 that are classified for 700 pound animals would work at 80 to 300 yards.
Terminal Ballistic Research web sight would be a good source to learn about the differences on post mortum.

In my experience I have found Nosler Parts to be very accurate in older barrels, I have been told they "slug" the barrel better than most.

I have also found some of my stuff does not like boat tails as well as flat bases.

I also tried re-loading ttsx 130's in the 300 savage. I had the devil of a time in not crushing shoulders and finding a crimp on the deep cannulures.

Just like bow hunting.....finding the broad head your bow likes is paramount. Just like which bullet is most accurate in a hunting rifle.

Just like the Chef Justin Wilson would say when asked what kind of wine to cook with. "Cook with the wine you LIKE."

Zing!!

+1.

Any one of the above and a bunch more. Let your rifle pick.

LMAO. Nice...

Can't go wrong with an Accubond for your hunting

LMAO... yep.

They were first introduced in the mid to later 80's and the flyers touted the tip not bending and the long range accuracy. I was a kid in school and not a reloader yet but read everything I could find. A friend had problems with them on an elk in the mid 90's and when he called Nosler they told him it was an accuracy bullet not a big game bullet. The solid base was a very good bullet, we used them, and the BT did not really replace it. When the BT got real popular they cut the box size to 50, to help meet demand, the price got a little higher, and then they dropped the solid base. They were still making them for someones factory loads a few years ago as I saw them sold as overrun.

From the Nosler website:
Then, in the early 80's, Nosler® set out to design a bullet that would combine the accuracy of a match bullet, the reliable expansion and penetration of the Solid Base®, and the ability to resist recoil-induced deformation in the magazine. The result was the Nosler® Ballistic Tip®. This hyper accurate bullet with the colorful, color-coded polymer tip quickly gained favor with deer, sheep, caribou and antelope hunters.

My wife will be shooting an elk this year with a 140 grain E-Tip. I worked up a mild, very accurate load for her Tikka at about 2,700 which is just about perfect for her -

Thats not what they told Wayne. But maybe he was splitting hairs with the elk part. JB says elk and bigger was why they toughened them up.

I'm finding this topic very interesting as while I don't have a 7-08, I do have a couple of 7x57s I run in the 7-08's velocity range. I usually use a .35 Whelen for elk but would like to try the 7x57. I'm thinking 150 gr. Partitions or Accubonds if I can get the accuracy I want. So far not much cooperation from the M70 FWT. Oh well, I have till next January to find a load for the hunt.
Paul B.

Have you tried a 160 gr bullet in the 7mm Mauser? That's what mine shoots very well,matter of fact it's a Sierra GK 160 gr. With IMR-4350 in the 22" barrel it's getting 2710 fps.

Used the 150 Ballistic Tip on a good sized bull last year in my 7-08. Bullet angled from middle ribs through vitals and was under the offside scapula. That's something like 32+" of elk. Bull motored 50 yards and was dead when I got to him. He was an older bull in the 7-9 year old range.

I believe a Partition would have made it through the scapula, but may or may not have exited. Either way the result would have been the same. A dead elk.

I've only taken two elk with Ballistic Tips, but they've always performed as advertised. If I were confined the rest of my hunting career to using ballistic tips I wouldn't worry one bit.

And yes, the bull was taken in the heart of grizzly country, and no I have always and only had one log-in name (grin).

I would use partitions myself. They may not always be the absolute best choice, but are always a very good choice. It is considered trite by some but if you have enough gun and a good bullet you will never wish for less. If something goes wrong with an elk, and your follow up shot is at the backside, you will not wish you had a little gun and a lightweight bullet.

Partitions are my favorite bullet... but in my particular 7-08 they didn't shoot very well, hence the use of the NBT's.

Personally I don't consider the 7-08 a "little gun"... load it with a 160 NP or NAB and it'll do everything and perhaps even a bit more than a 30-06 with a 180.

But if you hit an elk right the first time there won't be any follow-up in the backside.

OK, so let me ask one question here; WHERE IS the "cutoff" point when a size as in diameter/bullet weight increase actually DOES make a difference?

My one and only 7/08 has a 22" custom tube, weighs 6.25 with steel Talley QDs and Leupy VXII 2x7. I bought this, built by Brno284 who posts here for my birthday in 2013 and have only shot Federal Fusion 140s to date.

Brno284, built this for his personal sheep shooter and it is a work of art. he has been a guide in BC and up north, spent some 20 years as a BC CO and has hunted a lot. He told me that he felt it was too little whern he encountered a Grizzly in northern BC and, all in all, I feel much better with something larger.

So, last season, I went to the Kootenays for a few days of pounding rain and I took it, my new custom .280 Rem. which goes just over 7 lbs. on an HVA with Fwt. Kreiger and also my second Dakota 76, my 2014 birthday present, it is a .338WM.

Now, I have seen enough game killed and shot a few myself to know that any of these WILL humanely kill any animal in BC, BUT, I just cannot see a 7/08 being equal to my .30-06 loads, with the 180NP at 2800 fps-mv.

However, this could well be my essentially curmudgeonly character and since I am gettin' so bloody old, I could be wrong!

Dewey, the 160 from a 7-08 will out-penetrate a 180 of same construction from a 30-06... I'm struggling to understand how that is a bad thing.

The 7x57 and 7-08 are two peas in a pod and I doubt anyone would seriously question the 7x57's world-wide game-taking-ability.

I'd not hesitate to tackle a grizzly with any of the above, and would include a 260/6.5x55 with a good 140...

Cartridges are more alike than different.

This was a 7-08 thread and I should not have said that, after all it duplicates the 7x57. Some may not know it but Bell used a 7x57........ elephant........... Is it even freaking possible for some to write something about either caliber and not wast 500 words with that line. JB excepted, I do not remember him ever going there.

I've never used that analogy and would love you to point out where I just did.

What's your elk hunting background?

Take a deep breath and count 10. It was a reply to your reply to me. This is not the gun writer forum and I was not aware you are a writer. I was agreeing on the 7-08 not being a small gun, and poking fun at the writers whose articles are trite rehashed [bleep].

No deep breath needed, no 10 count required... please tell me why you are qualified to talk about elk cartridges?

You're avoiding the question...

Good question and pretty hard to tell with calibers bunched and separated by only a few thousandths;bullet weights by 10-20 or 30 grains and velocities about the same.Likely bullet construction counts for more than the difference between a jump from 7mm to 30 caliber and bullet velocity about the same.

Seems animals end up as dead with one as the other,and modern bullets level the playing field among many comparable cartridges.

OK, Brad. I have only killed a couple elk and I am not an expert nor have I said I was one. I did nothing to offend you and did not address my comment at you. I am now. You need to get over yourself and read the posts. This is not worth any more time and sorry if your feelers got ruffled.

These old-thread revivals are starting to get really confusing. Why is anybody "replying" to seattlesetters? He hasn't even logged onto the Campfire for over a year.

John it's so everyone can express a thought without appearing to talk to anyone in particular....kinda like talking out loud to ones self.

That way no one can think they are in an argument because they are talking to no one;or someone who isn't here.

John/Bob, the forum software has had some recent changes, and works differently than it used to... if you just post on "quick reply" without hitting the reply button on anothers post or using a quote to anothers post, it replies to the originator of the thread.

Quick reply used to address the person's post directly above it.

Most of us aren't used to it and it seems like we're posting to the original thread, when we're not.

Brad didn't know that....never use it. Thanks!

Brad,

Yes, thanks for the explanation. I don't use quick reply so didn't know.

By they way, I picked up a nifty little 7mm-08 off the Campfire Classifieds a couple months ago. It's a tang-safety Ruger 77 that originally was the compact (or lightweight or whatever model they called it) with a thin 20" barrel, and slimmer stock with a black forend tip.

But somebody had it rebarreled with a 22" #1 Douglas that was then nicely inletted into the stock, and with a 6x36 Leupold in the Ruger rings the whole thing weighs 7-1/2 pounds. Shoots like crazy, of course. I needed another rifle like a kick in the head, but the price was too good to pass up! Dunno what I'm gonna do with it, but might take it elk hunting next fall....

Dang, I always liked that configuration. It's an "RL". I had a couple in the Rob, but they didn't shoot too well. Probably the original owner of yours felt the same way, hence the no.1 Douglas!

Sounds like a GREAT rifle.

BTW, you should be more heavily armed for azz-shooting fleeing elk when you wound them with such a small rifle.

Thanks for the "advice"--and the reminder of the Ruger model name. I had one in .250 Savage for a while, and it shot pretty poorly, no matter what I tried.

But bought it at the Bozeman gun show for a decent price (an exception in itself, right there) and sold it for a slight profit. Apparently there's always a buyer for a light .250 Savage....

Haven't seen much discussion of the 120 NBT. My 7-08 loves 'em.

JB, am I imagining this or do I recall reading (I think you wrote it) that the 120 had a thicker jacket added because silhouette shooters wanted a bullet that knocked them over more consistently?

That's what I have been told by people who should know.

Thanks, that says something about its accuracy as well as toughness.

120 TSX's from a 7mm-08 will knock bull Elk to the ground. Post haste.

John, is your rebarreled Ruger a LA or SA?

Just got in from a road trip to Shedhorn with Dober... nice afternoon monkeypawing the wares. They have a Kimber MT in 257 Rob, but that was about it.

I'm always on the lookout for a Ruger RL in 250 Savage, and they're not easy to find. I'm kind of a sucker for the RL's, even though I never had one that shot very well.

I can't decide which I like better, the Rob or the Savage... I suppose push to shove the Roberts. Dandy, light recoiling elk rifle.

It's a short action.

I tend toward the Roberts as well, mostly because I've had better luck getting them to shoot. I know the .250 is supposed to be super-accurate, but I've probably fooled with a dozen and the only one that really shot well, with a variety of bullets, was a custom rifle built with a 1-10 Hart barrel on a 700 action.

But I keep trying....

The Mantra of the Rifle Looney...

That sounds like a catch!

As far as the OP is concerned, I'd nominate the 139 Hornady Interlock. It groups well and penetrates very nicely.

OK, I am well aware of the capabilities of the venerable 7x57, having shot and hunted with about ten different rifles so chambered since my first 50 years ago. I have four now, but, only two are operational as I am selling most of my custom projects "as is".

I used to have a 6.5x55, a Mannlicher-Schoenaur carbine, much the same ballistics as the 7x57, or, the 7/08 and have had five .280 Rems., have three now and three 7mmRMs. I have loaded for and shot a 7mmSTW some, so, all in all, I have some experience-based knowledge of 7mm hunting cartridges and I have also had about a dozen .270Wins, used a .270 Roy by Biesen and consider all of these a "wash" in most respects.

BUT, with the exception of Bob's comment, nobody has addressed my query of yesterday, WHERE is/are cutoffs for actual power increases in hunting cartridges?

Grizzlies, well, this is a genuine concern here in BC, a region that, with Alaska and the Kamchatka area of Russia, has the largest number and densest population of these bears anywhere. Grizzly issues are a REAL problem here for hunters and one which, IMO, should be a consideration when choosing an Elk cartridge.

So, again, what do you and others think is the point(s) where a genuine increase in gsme dropping/killing power exists?

I think Rick is loving fu cking with us . Now no one knows who's responding to who unless you throw up their quotes. Then the fight can really be on . You guys have a great weekend and remember, it's just bullits, not the end of the world. OH, and good luck with your elk hunting this year!!!!!!...

Likely the reason nobody has addressed it seriously is because it's essentially impossible to quantify. Which game are you talking about? Elephants, Orangutangs?

If we're talking elk, I've had "drop in their tracks" kills that are not spine shots with only two cartridges, the 300 WSM with a 180 NP at 2,950 and a 338 WM with a 210 NP at 2,950. Both shots were between 50 and 70 yards, broadside, and through the scapula/lungs. But neither were bigger than 5pt's.

Apart from those two I'd say all the kills were indstinguishable form one another, from the 270/7-08 to the 300/338's.

It would take a lot more observation of elk kills than I have under my belt to detect a pattern. I've killed 17 elk and have watched at least another 20 die, but that's hardly a record to be too dogmatic. And there's a fair difference between an average cow and a 10 year old bull.

I believe there's an observable difference in how elk react to the hit with NP type bullets above 160 grains and over 2,900 fps. Even then, animals are all individuals and will react differently.

A good bullet in the lungs disrupts life and results in a dead animal. All shot in the same spot will die within 5 or 10 seconds of each other no matter the cartridge.

I think what is really needed is a controlled-expansion bullet that will penetrate deeply. And I think a frangible front core like the Partition makes a difference. All those little shards creating a shrapnel effect in the lungs means something to a quicker death. I'm happy to hunt with the 257 Rob/115 NP and up. Yes, even in grizzly country.





All my elk hunting is in grizzly country. I cut their tracks, and run into them occasionally. I don't let that dictate what rifle I pack.

Carry bear spray, it's more effective than a rifle anyway. If you really want a "stopping rifle" you should be packing a 375H&H or bigger IMO. And who the heck wants to pack that?

A friend of mine hunts blacktails on Kodiak yearly and has always packed a 280 Rem.

I see and am done here.

Dewey, you asked the questions and I gave straight forward answers based on my own experience.

TexasPhotog,

All I've shot in the rifle so far have been 139 Interlocks and 150 Ballistic Tips. Both shot more than accurately enough for elk, but the 139 is super-accurate.

My wife and I have shot plenty of animals with the 139 over the years, in various 7mm cartridges, and like you have always liked the way it works.

Dewey,

A couple of years ago I semi-decided the cut-off for an appreciable and consistent difference in "killing power" (however that is defined) is around .35 caliber.

But that's on average, and certainly doesn't apply to every single animal killed. And I might change my mind soon, as every year brings new experiences....

Bill Steigers at Bitterroot used to say this all the time, too....drilled it into my head for years.

There's about a million bullets that I would load into my 7/08 and have no problem pointing it any elk.... I only saw one bull die via 7/08 this year and it was with a single 150 NBT at 300 yards... Worked very well...

Tanner

A good friend who guided for 10 or 11 years on elk, and saw 4-6 BIG bulls put down every year in those years, feels that 338" and above, especially when coupled with magnum velocities, is where he saw a greater "visual impact" on those big bulls. He liked that because when watching an animal being hit by a client through the spotter or binoculars it was easier to tell how/where/if the elk was hit. He thought the 340 Wby was the cream of the crop in this regard, and also said the most dramatic "bang flop" on a big bull he ever witnessed was with a 378 Wby.

But he also didn't believe those rounds necessarily "killed quicker" (except perhaps the 378), but definitely gave a better visual. Course the bulk of the hunters he was guiding were out-of-staters packing various magnums, so "killiing quicker" is a relative thing.

For his own elk hunting he used a 270, and currently a 260.

All of the above in grizzly country...

I've killed a few elk with the 120Ballistic in the 7-08 Ackley and they worked perfectly. Two were 6X6s and the 120 did all that could be asked of a bullet ... only one per customer

The 139-grain Hornady Interlocked also kills the snot out of elk in the 7-08 Normal or Ackley. Personally, I see no reason for a heavier bullet than this, but YMMV.

Blessings,

Steve

Can't disagree Steve... with my own 7-08 it had a decided preference for 150 Ballistic Tips over 140's of any kind so that what I ultimately went with.

Seemed to work.

I don't know about elk but I knocked the absolute dogchit our of a black bear (500+ lbs weighed/dressed) about a decade ago with a 160 gr speer mag tip. I don't even know if they make the bullet anymore. It was a tack driver with W760 and for under 300 yards it would work as good as anything. One of those rifles I should have never sold but a good kid needed a good deer rifle so there it went.

The more I see, with regard to killing power, the less I know. It seems like at least once a season I see something that makes me want to rethink things.

The only bull Elk I have ever seen go down in an absolute heap that was not CNS hit was shot with a 270 and the 130 TSX at just over 560 yds. He wash't a rag horn either. He was an old heavy bull. Hmmm.

This same debate has gone on for decades as my 1960's Outdoor Life series indicates. From the rather continuous writings of JOC to other celebrities of the day, its just endless. Of course back 50 years ago, the options for bullets and cartridges wasn't nearly as wide ranging as there are today.
Seems to me 50 years from now there will still be a vigorous debate on the same topic - if hunting is allowed.
One thing we can't dispute is that the acceptable array of ethical bullet and cartridge options has grown.