Just noticed a box of Hornady Superformance in .300 Savage at my local Cabelas. Claim was i think 1725fps for 150gr sst. Supposedly SST is built tougher than most tipped rounds.

I've got components to load some barnes TTSX 150gr but at least in my mosin nagant they like to be seated about .020 off the lands in order to give good accuracy. Not sure if that's going to be possible out of a lever, we shall see. Anyway, if SST's are tougher than core-lokts it seems like a better choice as a backup option.

Nope...I want a stouter constructed bullet than the SST. I have found the SST to be as fragile in construction as the first Ballistic Tips. I'll stick with Trophy Bonded Bearclaws and Partitions and never look back.

Now that I have stated that, I am sure all their fans will come out of the woodwork and tell me how wrong I am.

Check that velocity claim, that's slower than a 30-30. I'm thinking it may have been 2725.

I'd choose a CL over an SST.

In addition, I think the Interlock is a better elk bullet than the SST.

Ya, that velocity seems way too low for a 300 Savage.

I also have had a single experience with a SST, and wouldn't try it again on a dare. What a mess it made. My example was on a mulie, but out of a much faster round. Maybe at the more sedate speeds of a 300 Savage it would behave better.

My only use for SSTs is as practice bullets in place of AccuBonds in my .338WM. SSTs at the range for 90% of the shooting, AccuBonds for the rest and in the field.

That said I'm sure SSTs would work, especially at .300 Savage velocities.

I recently shot some 150 gr. SST in 30 caliber into hard dry hard clay. Amazingly they held together though expanded a bit far back. It is possible the design has been toughened.

pert near...

so what have you shot that gives you your opinion.

we've shot many and had no issues.

I'll be running 140 SSTs into elk and mule deer this year started at 3150. I will report back!

Might not wanna 'run' them into an elk...just sayin'....

They'll be fine.

Why not? I'm sneaky and I can hold 'em steady enough to stab with...

I'm gonna run Scenar's .. Oh the horror.

jus' in case I'm sure scenarshooter would verify it be ok.

Im just going by what a bunch of my customer( that I trust) have told me...not enough penetration.....

Never used one myself....they dont make them for little guns

scenars don't kill critters....especially not .308" 155s!

139 out of the 6.5-06 Ric?

I've not been impressed with SSTs on deer. Real unpredictable. Some worked, some blew up with minimal penetration.

Put one in the elks ribs and I bet the elk makes it to the barbecue.

There you go Tanner......

And this guy even shoots Water Goats....

Call me crazy but I'm gonna risk it..hehe

Yup at about 2980 fps.

Gonna push em harder though see if I still have the 1/4 moa accuracy. if so game on as well.

several PA whitetails have fallen to the a-max and sst.

DRT.

I suppose if you're shooting legs or ass' they ain't gonna work as well... maybe. ;-0

Hmmm. Maybe not a bad idea to have some 150 Partitions along for the ride if I get into timber.

Maybe not a bad idea to go with Partitions for everything...

Amazing things happen with one well placed shot. Regardless of the bullet.

Accuracy trumps all. No bullet or bullet construction can make up for poor accuracy.

I like to hedge my bets...

Out of a recent bullet test in Eastman's Hunting Journal the 180 SST out of a .300 Win (All test bullets were 180gr in .300 WM) had the least amount of penetration and poor retained weight.Fired into test media, The 180 Noz Part had the most penetration and the 180XP3 and TTSX were tied for most retained weight.
In short I wouldn't use SSTs the Interbond faired better if you like hornady.

I told you, the 130gr TTSX is the ONLY right answer to that question...

Signature worthy line right there.

I'm going to go see how 130 Accubonds shoot and that may be the meat bullet of choice.

If ya do, keep 'em broadside in the lungs Tanner.

Gunner

I sure as heck will!

You found a rifle for your wifey right? Just thinking that the 270WSM Montana would make mean low recoil medicine if stoked with 110TTSX...

When pressing the trigger on game. I like not to have to bet. If If I have to bet on the shot it will be one not taken.

I did... 6.5X47L. 6lbs sans optics. should be right at 7-8lbs all up.

130 Bergers will get the nod.

I'd like to try AB's but no one has em. I'll need 50 for work up and another 50 just to have and hunt with. Can't find em anywhere.

PA whitetails = elk

I forgot about that. Glad you reminded me...

Have you killed an Elk with an SST?

They are interchangeable with an A-max when re-loading.

I'm a fan of the 162 amax in the 7 wizzum. Hint

Nope..Your spot on..If everyone used Noslers or Trophy Bonded or some others,there would never be these "Will this bullet work on Elk" threads.These never make sense to me since people are not taking shortcuts on glass/clothes or things that don't really matter,they do on the one thing that can make your hunt successful...A bullet that works in "all" circumstances on large game like Elk.

Buy a box of 50 Noslers(or other known bullets that do not fail) and hunt your heart out and practice with the cheapish.50 hunting bullets should last a guy many years.

Jayco

I don't bet on the shots either, and with proper bullet selection, I dont bet on the way the bullets gonna perform either...dats what I call 'hedging'...

Interesting comments. The reason i'm interested is 2750 is outstanding velocity for 150gr round from factory ammo for 300 savage.

Most factory 150's are 1600 or less.

I need to get some time in my shop to see if my 150ttsx will work. The concern being the longer bullet and 300 savage case capacity. I was tempted to go with 130's but i'd like to have one all-purpose cartridge this year for both deer and elk.

Hornady's website sure hypes the toughness of the SST, i wonder if they've changed them.

Well...a bunch of pretty nice bulls and one cow shot with the partitions and TBBC's and culled untold numbers of does on local plantations withj SST's and basically all other brands of bullets. The SST's performed pretty much exactly like the older BT's. My experience on them is 'real world' experience, not what I have gleaned from the internet.

SST = BT good to know.

So how many Elk? While I'm still gleaning.

I used to have a .300 Savage levergun that I mistakingly traded a 30-40 Krag for.....I have seen the .300 Savage used on alot of game....Quit worrying about bullets and buy a box of Core'loks and never look back...The Core-Lokt factory load is like peanut butter and jelly at factory velocities on Elk,if you do your part!I love the Core-Lokt on Elk even with my '06 and especially with my 30-30.

Jayco

I agree. I have seen more elk killed with 180gr corelokts out of an '06, than any other bullet.

They work, for sure.

I use 140 gr. SST's at 2,950 fps out of my 6.5-284 on Whitetails, Pronghorns and hogs with good results. They're very accurate in that gun and have good B.C.

For Elk, I'd select a tougher bullet, like NPT or NAB and probably .30 cal. or larger. The SST would surely kill an elk, but I'd feel better with a tougher, heavier bullet. Just can't make sure all shots are going to be perfect.

Gotta plan for the worse, hope for the best and as you say, hedge your bets.

Right now, if I was planning an elk hunt, I'd be thinking about my 9.3x62 with 286 gr. NPT's. I'd leave my 6.5-284/SST's at the house.

IMHO.

DF

That's the way it is...The perfect broadside shot for these sub standard Elk bullets is not always there when for whatever reason, you hit the shoulder or heavy bone.

Elk deserve a lethal shot and a bullet capable of human error or bad judgment that gives a small amount of forgiveness when hitting heavy bones..

Jayco

Tanner -

If you have any doubt, why take the risk of risk poor penetration? Why take two different loads rather than one you have confidence in?

Just start out with the Partitions or AccuBonds (or TTSX or A-Frames or Scirocco or Trophy Bonded or North fork or �) and don�t give penetration another thought. Save the SSTs for practice loads and the premiums will last quite a while. Just need to work up a premium load that shoots about the same.

Here�s how to save money on the premiums:

1. Load several cartridges with your premiums and powder charges in 0.5g increments. I generally load about 8 to 10 total, starting with a Start charge and working up, sometimes going a grain or so over MAX.

2. Start shooting the loads one at a time, recording both the Velocity and POI (Point Of Impact). When indicated, stop shooting and take the remainder of loads home and tear them down.

3. Review velocities and POIs and look for a consecutive series that provides a tight group with relatively consistent increases in velocity.

4. Pick a load in the middle of that group, build a few more and test. I usually find I�ve got a good load at that point, one that is consistent, accurate and tolerant of slight differences in powder charges.

5. Work up a load with cheaper bullets that have the same trajectory, more or less, at ranges you are comfortable shooting. Use these loads for 90% of your practice.

Hmmm not sure I agree with that.

Why practice with what you aren't going to use. Counter productive if you ask me. Once can "hedge his bets" by practicing with what he plans to use. Becoming proficient and good is often not cheap. But that the price you pay for becoming successful.

Berger has proven that their bullets will perform on various game animals world wide. They have also proven the are competition accurate. Those 2 in conjunction cover all the bases.

The round robin test will yield a bit better and accurate results in load work up.

Often times the load with the right node will have on either side of it acceptable accuracy with a slightly "off" powder charge.

Counter productive? Not if you�re shooting loads that shoot to the same POI or nearly so. And it can be a LOT cheaper, allowing more practice. The bullets and velocities don�t even have to be similar. For example, I run fast/light TTSX and heavy/slow AMAX loads out of my .280 Rem. Because of differences in BC of the bullets, the trajectories and POI out to 500 yards are very close � far closer than needed for practice. In some of my other guns I simply substitute Ballistic Tips and AccuBonds or SSTs and AccuBonds, AMAX and Scirocco II, etc. Come hunting time I start shooting the hunting loads to verify POI. I gain proficiency through practice and save considerable money t the same time. Works for me.



Bergers may be one of the better bullets for very long range. That said, I really don�t care and won�t be loading them for hunting. Yes, the can work spectacularly well when things go right but I don�t trust them to penetrate adequately on bad angles. Given the percentage of my shots over the last decade that have provided straight-down results with North Fork, TTSX, MRX, Grand Slam and Scirocco II, the only way a Berger could provide significantly better results is if the animals dropped before the bullet impacts. I consider that rather unlikely and I trust these bullets to perform as desired under a much wider range of circumstances.

Fortunately we all get to make our own choices. Bergers for you, not for me.


Granted, another test method may come up with loads that are �a bit better and accurate�. Nevertheless, the method I described often provides sub-MOA loads. For hunting loads I see no need to spend a small fortune looking for minor improvements. Been there, done that, but the game doesn�t know the difference.

If one is shooting competition with expensive hunting bullets (why?) that would be another story.

You can never be called a moron by doing so, that's for sure.

Logcutter I think you and the other poster nailed it. I have said time and again, I am not worried about what my bullet will do when things are perfect...I worry about the bullet's performance when things (the shot) are not perfect! Therein is the defining factor in my book for bullet performance. Great posts on this subject by everyone...

Not a single stinkin' one.

Why? Because when I CONSISTENTLY hear about a bullet breaking up--and RARELY hear about anyone saying good things about them--I listen up and don't shoot elk with the bullet.

Make sense?

The notorious exploder (aka Nosler Ballistic tips) even has more fans on the campfire than the SSTs do. That tells me all I need to know.

But hey, do what you want...

Bergers work well at all ranges. Albeit they ain't for everyone.

Practice with what you plan to use. No exceptions.

I've often wondered why some hunters accept minute of pie plate accuracy and sub par practice for killing? Some even think magnums will make up for poorly placed shots. Game animals deserve more respect than that.

jus' my .02

"a bit better accurate" and the tiniest of MOA standards are only what I am after. No exceptions. The game I hunt gets respect at many levels. Just how I feel 'bout it.

I will. Going with Scenar's or Bergers. All depends on the next few weeks and what practice sessions reveal.

When I was living. In Northern Wisconsin I was using a 280 Remington Weatherby MkV. I ran the older version of the Hornady Superperformance, if I remember correctly they were called light magnums. That load simply shot better than any hand load I could roll so I just kept using them. They had 139 grain SST at 3100 ......they clocked at 3050 out of the Weatherby. I shot 6-7 deer up there with that set up....many very close range , some out to 250 yards. All deer dropped straight down like they had been hit by Thor's hammer. Bad news was I never found a single intact bullet, just lots of little pcs. plus a fair amount of meat damage. I would think one would want a tougher bullet. It might depend on what caliber .....Mayberry thee bigger bore ones are tougher . My one and only elk was shot with the Nosler Partision. Killing certainly does not make me an expert.....far from it, but those partisions have worked for years it seems. Goodshot

Being as how Ingwe has killed critters big and small from here to Africa on multiple occassions, I would swing this way.

I wouldn't have chosen the word "swing", referencing Ingwe...

Otherwise, I fully agree.

Bob, you not into leopard stuff...??

DF

Fully aware of what Ingwe has done. Stellar actually.

I'm not saying that these "board standard" bullets don't work nor will. What I am saying is go with the most accurate bullet for your load/rifle. I feel too many rely on marginal accuracy with a "hunting bullet" to make up for poor preparation and poor shot placement.

If a guy has a 1.5 moa rifle at 100 yards at 400 that equates to 6" add wind, weather and angles, now you could have a mess.

SST's will work, Bergers will work, Scenars will work and yes even the lowly matchking. Hell, I'm a fan of AB's if you can get a good load. Accuracy and bullet placement trumps all.

If you can squeeze out MOA at 100 you're marginally ok. .5 MOA is where I think you should be. Or better.

Thanks for uhhhhh.....Having my back....


As far as the whole bullet/gack thing goes, theres lots of good answers and choices out there nowadays, otherwise we'd all be shooting .30-06s with 180 grain something or other in them, and all be married to blondes...( blondes ARE the best, you know... )

Ingwe,

A friend has a saying about women. He claims we're all married to the same woman, they just have different names...

May be some truth to that.

Your statement on NPT's is solid, IMHO. Hard to go wrong with those, regardless of caliber. I think Partitions have become THE big game bullet to compare others to, because of the time they've been in service and their performance record over many years.

DF

The real issue is when people begin to use marginal bullets because they shoot .4 MOA vs. the .6 MOA of a hunting bullet. While I'm all for having an accurate rifle, elk really don't require benchrest grade accuracy to get a shot into the vitals at any decent hunting distance.

Lately I have been fooling around with several bullets shooting them and digging them out of my backstop. It rained just enough yesterday to give the clay backstop a somewhat moist consistency. I shot some factory Winchester 180 gr. Power points to empty some brass, some 180 br. Hornady Spire points and a few 150 gr. SST's from my 30-06. Range is 100 yards. The SST's actually held together meaning their cores were still in the jacket though it had expanded past the interlok, retained weight 70 grains. The Power points lost their cores and the core seemed to have disentegrated. The Spire points held together, expanding back to the interloc ring and weighed around 130 grains. Earlier this week I shot a couple of 180 gr. Partitions into drier/harder clay and guess what, they looked just like they were supposed to.

Good point.

The optimal bullet for sub-MOA shooting at extended range may or may not be the optimal bullet for killing a big game animal, most shot at shorter distances. At 150 yds., sub inch may not be the most critical issue, harvesting a 1,000 # Elk.

DF

Rock solid idea...

Never seen one not work near or far and from all angles...

Well, the first load with 130 Accubonds and H4831sc went about .5" at 100, so it looks like I've found my meat getter.

NAB's are excellent bullets. With that group and those bullets, you're good to go.

DF

We all have our definitions of decent ala doable distances.

Bench grade accuracy is my standard.

If your first load went into .5 betcha you can tweek it and shrink it. AB's have been know to be remarkably accurate.

Wanna sell me a hundert of em? Would like to try em in the 6.5-06

You wanna' try some .277" Accus in your 6.5? C'mon man...

I thought you meant 130 gr .264's.. albeit the consensus here on the .270 they should make my 6.5-06 perform more better.

They definitely will get you some awesome numbers on that chrono

They've got a measly .435 BC... can't even be in the same room as a 6.5 Accu!

Depends on what you are looking for. Berger claims their bullets �will shed 40% to 85%� of their weight and produce a wound cavity that is �13� to 15� long�. I want more penetration than that and to get it you need a bullet that holds together. Just this morning I was reading of a Berger that failed to reach the far lung on a broadside shot at elk. Could be complete bullcrap, as I wasn�t thereto verify it, but what I do know is that the bullets I use drop elk fast on a broadside, usually straight down, and they have made the trip lengthwise on mulies, from both directions, dropping them straight down in the process.

Here�s the elk record for my hunting buddy (Dave), son-in-law(Kelan) and myself since 1999 when I started keeping good records:

1999 � Daves bull, 7mm RM/160g Grand Slam, 5x5 bull, 100 yards broadside, straight down
2000 � Daves cow, 7mm RM/160g Grand slam, cow elk, ~80 yard neck shot, 125 yards (A more frangible bullet would have been better here, as would a broadside to the body.)
2000 � 6x5 bull, 7mm RM/160g Grand Slam, 350 yards broadside, straight down
2002 � Dave�s cow, 7mm RM/160g ~100 yards broadside, 40 yards
2002 � Cow, 7mm RM/160g, ~100 yards broadside, 40 yards
2002 � 5x5 bull, 7mm RM/160g, ~100 yards broadside, straight down
2003 � 6x6 bull, .45-70 350g North Fork, 213 yards broadside, straight down
2006 � Dave�s cow, 7mm RM/160g, ~100 yards broadside, 20 feet
2006 � Cow, .300WM/180g North Fork, 282 yards broadside, 25 yards
2007 � Cow, .30-06/165g North Fork, 125 yards broadside, straight down
2007 � Cow, .30-06/165g North Fork, 25 yards broadside, straight down
2010 � Cow, .30-06/150g AccuBond, 262 yards broadside, straight down
2010 � Kelan�s cow, .300WM/180g PowerPoint, 363 yards broadside, straight down
2011 � Cow, .338WM/225g AccuBond, 265 yards, 1 poorly placed shot above the spine (my fault) allowed it to make 20 yards; 2 more broadside an inch apart, still standing after the first, straight down after the second (which was unnecessary but accelerated the inevitable)

If you were counting, that�s 14 elk with 8 going straight down where they were hit with the first shot. Of those, 9 were mine and 6 went straight down. Very acceptable.

I don�t shoot a lot of deer, just one every 2-3 years, but with one exception every one I can think of in the last decade has been shot with a North Fork, TTSX/MRX, Grand Slam or Trophy Bonded and has gone straight down, most on broadsides but two lengthwise with full length penetration. The one that didn�t go straight down took a quartering hit with a .45-70/350g and was leaking more than any animal I�ve ever seen. It made a tight circle and dropped just a few yards from where it was hit. I had an antelope make it 25 yards after getting hit with a 100g TTSX, but the others we�ve shot with various caliber/weight Grand Slam, TTSX and AccuBonds have gone straight down or made no more than a couple steps . XLCs were an epic failure on antelope but that�s why I don�t use them anymore (they did stop the buck in its tracks, though). My son-in-law dropped an antelope with a 168g A-MAX but lost a lot of meat as a result of shrapnel. That antelope made a few steps but didn�t drop any faster than the others.

Bullets that are advertised not to penetrate more than 15� don�t interest me. Although I try hard for broadside shots, I won�t turn down frontal or quartering shots. The one ham shot I�ve taken was the result of Murphy stepping in as the trigger broke � but the 7mm/140g North Fork made it to the sternum of a buck mulie and dropped it before I recovered from the recoil.

Use Bergers if you want, I don�t think they have anything to offer that I�m not already getting and I simply don�t trust them if things go wrong.



�Sub-par practice�? Your opinion doesn�t make it a fact. I�ve got practice loads that are cheap and extremely accurate and most shoot so close to the same POI as my hunting loads that there is no practical difference for hunting purposes. Saves me a bundle on practice and the switchover only requires a few shots to reconfirm zero and trajectory. Anyone can do the same.



My game gets respect, too � that�s why I develop accurate loads and practice as much as I can. My 7mmRM/140g North Fork loads shot the second smallest group I�ve ever shot, 3 shots at 0.262� for a scope check. Here�s a scope check target from my .338 WM, taken just before the 2011 elk season:


That may not be accurate enough for you. It is way more accurate than I need, but I�ll take it. Once I hit about 1.25-MOA, smaller groups don�t buy me anything in the field.

Respect for the game is also why I refuse to use what I consider sub-par bullets like the Bergers.

That�s my .02.

DF: Bad choice of words.You get my drift..

I've seen that list before. Impressive.



I never said it did. Again I game my .02

In my mind if I am going to make the commitment to kill and practice to kill. I will practice with the ingredients I intend to cook with. That pretty much removes all the controllable variables with the ingredients. Different bullet brands rarely perform exactly alike.


Too accurate is not accurate enough in my book.
Again my .02

BS. On many levels. All bullets are most assuredly NOT the same in "on game" performance, any more than they are the same flying through the air......and all bullet performance issues are not resolved by merely hitting the right "spot".Anyone with a modicum of experience killing animals knows this.

Cocadori,

You're a sniper/shooter who hunts...

And that's OK. Just some are more hunters and their equipment is just that, a tool.

I lean more toward you are in that regard.

DF

Fair enough.

BS ..how so? Level it for me.



Correct. I never said they were.



"Hunting" bullets cannot resolve issues of a miss placed shot either. Issues can be exponentially increased in realms of "oh schitt" by hitting the wrong spot. Proficiency in knowing your rifles/load and how it "acts" can reduce this significantly.

A well placed bullet regardless of make can kill and kill well.

How many here are willing to take on a running shot? A few I suppose. I guess a "hunting bullet" would increase confidence "just in case" huh? I guess that in itself could turn into an ethics discussion.

Success cannot be increased by a poor shot with a magnum or "hunting bullet". A paunch shot, leg shot, etc. Anyone with a modicum of of experience of killing animals knows this as well.

IN the end it's the same old same old hunting vs match bullet.

The OP wanted to know if the SST's would work on Elk. Yes they do. The ones I've seen hit/killed they didn't complain either and there were no issues. I never said it would be my first choice.
I simply stated my opinion that accuracy trumps all. In any case I'd choose the most accurate recipes with the bullets I wanted to use. Whether it be a SST' core lokt, Partition etc. save varmints types.

For years I carried the ought six with Partitions. Not because it was a Partition but because it was hands down the bullet the rifle liked the best. However I was limited in my range of effectiveness due to bullets issues in the areas of BC and speed bleed off due to bullet design.

You've your opinion I have mine.

I'm a guy who likes to be prepared to maximize the limits if the situation presents itself. Do I look for the maximum limit. hell no. I'd love every one to be under 100 yards, broad side, no wind , no weather and the sun at my back.

That rarely happens. To make up for tough situations I like to be prepared with the utmost in accuracy and patience to wait for the right window of opportunity.

If I was younger and not seen the mistakes I've seen. I may fall into the "hunting" bullet cause it'll kill better thing. It still comes down to shot placement. Can one extend their opportunity envelopes buy using a "solid" to drive from one end to the other. Sure. Those are risky shots and those who worry about meat damage with "match" bullets because of explosiveness should be worried about just as much meat damage in takeign an end to end.

Do Bergers, SMK's and the likes fragment? Sure they do. All the time no, not all the time. Fragments aren't always a negative. several wounds can be beneficial over one as well.
Do they fail yes they do. Do hunting bullets fail? yes they do.
I've see a corelokt zip right through a speed goat. As far as I know that goat is still alive.
I saw a partition bounce off a rib and open the guts like a zipper too.
If my rifle liked them the best because I had the best accuracy I could achieve for the velocities I feel I needed to get the job done at my maximized ranges. I'd use em.

It now comes back full circle to accuracy.

Am I right in my thinking. Hell who knows. I know it's my opinion. Because in my mind If I can place the shot where I think it needs to be placed then I have the confidence I need.
If the shot is such that I don't feel right or confident I simply don't take it. Years ago I might have.

I passed on an easy booner WT this past year. Simply because the shot wasn't right for the conditions I was presented with. Schitt that's just hunting. I still managed to harvest a respectable one however.

But the good news is I've seen him this year ;-) I just have to show him where to travel ;-)

Nuts. A bullet that holds together and penetrates deeply can indeed help make up for a misplaced shot. The buck I shot in 2007 stepped forward and turned away as the trigger broke, making an �easy� 150 yard quartering away shot a shot to the right ham. Fortunately the North Fork bullet held together and penetrated to the sternum, dropping that buck like the proverbial rock. A bullet like a Berger, if penetrating 15� as advertised, would have ended up in the intestines or stomach and may well have resulted in a lost animal as a result.

A sample of one, to be sure, and not all misplaced shots are on a straight line to the vitals. Nevertheless, North Fork bullets have proven to me they are capable of breaking a lot of bone and continuing. So have Barnes TTSX/MRX, Grand Slam and Trophy Bonded. Unfortunately, things don�t always go as planned. When that is the case I�ll take a bullet that expands reliably but in a controlled manner, holds together and penetrates deeply.



Keyword there is �can�. Very different than �will�.

I�ve put FMJ�s through coyotes and quit using them when well placed shots failed to result in satisfactory kills. When I tried 7mm 160g Barnes XLC bullets on antelope they were complete failures � two through the lungs on a slight quartering shot failed to kill and it took a third through the heart, over 20 minutes later, to finish the job.

Bullet design affects performance. If I could guarantee every shot would be a perfectly placed broadside and that Murphy would never interfere again, Bergers would be fine. Unfortunately, experience dictates a different approach to life. Stuff happens.



My guess is quite a few would take running shots. Trying them on coyotes has resulted in mixed success and made me very cautious about taking such shots. Haven�t taken one on big game in years but I won�t rule them out completely � and yes, a good �hunting� bullet, not a Berger, would definitely increase confidence levels.


Poor shots are not all equal. As long as the shot is placed in a straight line with the vitals, a bullet that holds together has a better chance of reaching them than do bullets that fly to flinders shortly after impact.



There is no doubt that SST bullets would work most of the time. So would a .223 with a 52g match bullet. I trust AccuBonds to perform better, which is why I use SSTs for practice and AccuBonds for hunting in my .338 WM. I�m not worried about what happens when things go right because, well, things go right. What I want is the extra edge good bullets can provide when things go south.

OK so what about those that are not in line with the vitals?

Does a Solid or NF or the like do better?


So jus' in case you were wondering. I just ordered 400 140gr AB's for the 6.5-06.

Will they suffice?

Agree completely. We all acknowledge that placement trumps everything else...not much good is going to happen if you can't hit the vitals. However, hitting the right spot is only the beginning point for a successful shot. My elk blood brother proved this on a number of elk prior to switching bullets. His choice was Sierra Game Kings...a very good bullet on elk "usually". His elk would all require multiple shots to drop (witnessed by me and others). When dressing out the elk we'd always find core separations, and what we would deem insufficient penetration - never a pass through, not once. I cautioned him that one day it was going to bite him in the butt, and to get something a little more stout for a bull elk. His last GK experience was with a gorgeous 6x6 bull that took seven shots to put down. Six of those shots were in the vitals, mostly exploding on the hide/shoulder. I got it all on video for his viewing pleasure. Afterwards he asked me to dig him up a good load for Partitions and life has been a great series of bang flops for him ever since.

SST's will work, Bergers will work, Scenars will work, and the Matchking will work...all will, but NONE of these will work every time on the shoulderblade of a 900#+ bull. Noslers, TBBC's, NF's, BBC's sure will, and have been doing it for ages. I just want the law of averages on my side all I can get, and to keep Murphy's Law as far away as I can. The latter named bullets will go a long way towards helping me in that endeavor.

I hear ya...

In those cases you can only hope to do enough damage to slow the game down. Can�t imagine a solid would be better.

The first elk my buddy neck shot went straight down. The second, with the same load, went 125 yards after being neck shot and, although 4-5 of us were looking, we didn�t find it until the next morning. The bullet was a 7mm 160g Grand Slam. A 40g .224� V-MAX might have worked better in that situation.



If they don�t I don�t know what will.

I bought 100 factory second 140g Ballistic Tips for use in my 6.5-06AI. Haven�t work up the loads yet but they will end up being fire-form and practice loads for 130g Scirocco IIs, as are 140g A-MAX currently. Wasn�t aware 140g AccuBonds were available in 6.5mm but it�s good to know and I�ll give them a try.

I have had good luck with the SST's in the 308 (all I have used them in). The blew through a black bear (200-225lbs) pretty well. They were pretty mild though, with a 150 SST at 2850 or so. I have since switched up to the 165 AB's as I have a little more confidence in them wrecking bones and continuing on.

Coyote Hunter, looking forward to how you make out with the 140 BT's or the AB's in you 6.5. They shoot really well out of my 264 Win Mag, and I trust them for deer or the AB's for elk if I used the 264 for elk.

AB



BT



I haven't ran the 140 BT or AB into jugs yet, but I did with the 130 AB out of the 264, around 3350. It hit the jugs about 20 yards from the muzzle, seemed to do pretty well.

Can't imagine the 140's will do any worse.

beretzs -

That's what I like to see - a bullet that will expand reliably at fairly low velocity but can hold together at high velocity (read "close range") impacts.

I have had good luck with SSTs on deer. However, last year I gained new respect for Hornady Superperformance loads with SST bullets out of a 308. I shot a bull at 370 yards (lasered) and the first shot went through both lungs. The bull quartered away and stood there wavering. The second shot, which was probably not necessary, dropped him. Upon inspection, the first shot entered between ribs and had a quarter size exit hole. I like more expansion and was not very impressed, but it was a 370 yard shot. However, the second shot quartering away entered in front of the hind quarter, through the vitals, shattered the large shoulder bone, and then lodged just below the hide on the front shoulder. The core did separate and exit but after a lot of damage. It was very impressive from the lowly 308.

In the latest Field and Stream a trio of elk hunting gurus are interviewed. One of them says for quite some time he's been using the 180gr sst out of an. 300 wsm from 30 to 360 yards on elk with no problems just dead elk. I feel comfortable enough to use them on a late season deer and elk hunt out of my 338 win mag 225 grs rolling at 2800 fps.

I have used hand loaded 150g SST in my 300 WSM on Mule Deer and Antelope with great success. Jumped a mule deer at 40 yards and spine shot it. When I skined it, the hole was unreal. The entry hole was the size of my head. It didn't make the lower back straps look very good but the deer went down. I loaded 180g SST for my elk hunting trip in CO next month. Can't wait to see how they perform.

I watched Jason Hornady use a 180gr SST from a .300 Win Mag kill this bull. Not a bunch of penetration but the elk never was able to do much after the hit. Need a second shot when we got to him.

Just keep in mind it is not designed for deep penetration and use it with that in mind. The reduced speed of the .300 Savage will help.

Yeah, that's about it.

A companion on a Wyoming elk hunt a couple of years ago used a .300 WSM with 180 SST's. He shot a bull similar to Jason's at about 400 yards. The bullet was found perfectly expanded under the hide on the far side--and the elk, naturally, died quickly. A little distance helps!

Funny how shot placement trumps the "gack".

The SST is not my first choice but Jason hit the bull right and that was all she wrote. Of course there was no way he was going to use a rifle running VLDs but hard to argue with success.

Want to know if anyone has shot the 338 225 Hornady into a Elk or Moose and how it worked out? The factory load for the 338 RCM is loaded with that bullet, not a lot of options in the 338 RCM. Have hand loads with known bullets but the factory are fast and accurate.

I used the 225's on year from my .338 RUM. Accuracy was pretty good and penetration more then adequate but at RUM velocities I found myself wanting a bit more strength and swapped to TSX's. at 338 RCM velocities it should be about perfect.