Hey everyone...new guy here. I found this site while reading tent reviews. I'm about to pull my hair out trying to decide on a tent.

I thought I was set on an 12x12 Alaknak, but the more I read, the more I'm leaning towards canvas. Here's what I'm looking for...
1 - @ 12x12 size(usually just myself, sometimes one or 2 others)
2 - easy set-up(again, usually just myself out there)
3 - wood stove capable for colder hunts(archery elk in southern NM doesn't require heat, but deer and turkey hunts can be chilly)
4 - ventilation for warmer months

I've kind of narrowed it down to the Alaknak, or a Davis tent. I can get a Sheepherder built with a floor and windows for about the same cost as the Alaknak. I could also get a 12x14 wall tent from Davis with the angle kit and cut my own poles for about the same price(but I'd kind of like a floor). I know there are guys here who have had experience with all 3 of these tents, so anyone with any input, please help clear my mind(or muddle it even more...whichever)

I have a really hard time making a decision when plunking down a lot of money, and the costs of these tents suffice as "a lot". Someone please help me quiet the voices in my head and pick a tent for goodness sake.

Always buy bigger than what you think you will need.
Davis tent by a mile

And Welcome to the Campfire, by the way!

+ 2 for Davis Tent, and they have a monthly special on their website each month, but availability will go down quick as we get closer to season. I bought new from them last year, and VERY glad I did, they were folks that answer their own phones and work orders one on one.

It's worth it to call them direct, they sometimes have returns, scratch and dents, and demos units (tents/stoves) that aren't listed on the website.

Davis repairs what they sell, doubt Cabelas will sew one back up after a surprise snow dump, or an Ooops!

Depending on how you hang your tent to dry, my experience is that the floor for that size of tent is a PITA to dry after season. Maybe we just don't have the right place to hang it, but we've gone to a poly tarp floor plan, and fold, replace as needed. Plus, cuts down on the pack weight on the way in, and out, JMO.

Yes. Much like motorcycles, stereos, or pickups, I've never wished I had a smaller one. Add a body or two and space disappears in a hurry. Especially if one wants to do it all (sleep, cook, eat, and socialize) in a single unit.

A wall tent by all means. If one uses it around an abundance of pole thickets then there's no need for a frame. Out on the Kansas plains, then one needs an interal frame.

Should have added, I'll be truck camping not packing in, so weight/poles aren't much of an issue.

Davis is running a special on a 12x14 with corner kit this month, and I could get that tent cheaper than the sheepherder, but the sheepherder will be easier to setup by myself I think. Since I'm by myself most of the time, that part is kind of important. There's just too many choices out there

Thanks for the input so far.

I have a 12x14 Montana Canvas wall tent with 5' walls. It's great for 2 people -- but not 3. We have a 16x20 wall tent for 3-4 people.

I wouldn't want a hunting tent with a sewn-in floor. We spread truck tarps for flooring.

I have a CampMor frame for the 12x14 --- I can set it up by myself. I have a tin box wood stove that's great for Elk hunting. Nothing like a wall tent.

I set my 11 x 15 up myself without a big frame. Just ridge pole,3 up rights and 5 ft poles at each grommet on the walls. Heck I'm just shy of 70, bad lungs, bad back, and bad shoulders. If I can do it you surely can. With a full internal frame it should be a snap.

Don't go the sewn in floor route. As mentioned poly tarps and throw them away when they get ruined.

Thanks saddlesore. I'm hearing that about the floors more and more. If I left out the floor, and made my own poles, I could get that 12x12 sheepherder for less than $750. They just use 1/2 EMT for wall poles and 1 3/8" chainlink post for the center pole. That wall tent would be nice though...

I use the 1/2" Emt for the side poles and 1&1/4: fro the ridge and 3 uprights ( but the chain link pole is better).Works very well. I cut the up rights in half and put a coupling there. Then I lift the tent up 1/2 way and then another half way

I got the 12x14 Davis tent with their angle kit and they tell you length for conduit cuts plus rain fly. I got the screen/Colorado door front/rear and side windows no floor great ventilation. Reason I don't like a floor is drying tent if floor get wet on the inside you have to turn tent inside out to dry.

I just get the cheap indoor/outdoor carpet from Home/Depot or Lowe's makes great floor.

I can set the 12x14 by myself with no problems it's little tricky with rain fly if it's windy. 12x14 is great for two people with gear be little cramped with wood stove for 3 people. what you could do is lay out some cots see how you set tent up @ 12x14 next size Davis has is 12x18 you might find that better but may be little tougher for one man to set up. Well good luck.

I'd strongly recommend to get a zipper door on both ends and have the stove jack coming out one of the end walls.
If used only in hunting season, where it gets cold, I don't see a reason for the screening. Two doors allow good ventilation, lots cheaper and when one zipper craps out, you still have the other.( Zippers are the 1st to go.)
I like the end wall stove jack as the stove pipe is more readily accessible for cleaning and you get less burn holes in your canvas.I poly tarp my tents instead of canvas rain flies. Snow slides off easier and as long as you have no holes they are 100% water proof

This has worked best for me for 40+ years. YMMV

Thanks guys.

Roper, I think that the 12x14 would be plenty big enough for my needs, and the tent you have is the wall tent I'm comparing to the herder, just with the regular door and screen instead of the Colorado door and no fly.

No sewn in floors for me. Tarps are cheap, disposable, and can be easily swept and/or sprayed off. A sewn in floor, not so much. Two weeks ago in northern Idaho (My 14x16 AAA/Kirkham's on the left and a buddies 12x14 on the right):

I think a 12'x14'x5' Davis tent without a floor would serve you well. As others said, just get a piece of indoor/outdoor carpet for a floor. No problem rolling it up and dusting it off at home.

With the frame angles and conduit, it is very easy for one man to put up a tent of that size. Make sure you buy a tent with five feet sidewalls. You'll not be sorry.

Here is a link to a site that sells the best tent frame angles I've seen. I used them on my 14'x16'x5' tent and they make putting up the frame very easy.

http://www.creativeshelters.com/Fittings/Canopy-Fitting.aspx

As for a stove, you can't find a better, more efficient one than a Three Dogs model from Four Dogs stoves. That model will keep you warm and dry in your tent in all kinds of cold weather. Two of my friends use them here in Idaho's cold mountains and really praise them.

http://fourdog.com/

L.W.

This is what you want for a ground cloth or tent floor.

http://www.outfitterssupply.com/MultiScreen-Breathable-Ground-Cloth/productinfo/WCA500/

I use a Montana Canvas 12x14 with a cylinder stove and love it. Drop canvas for the floor.

Rain fly keeps things nice and dry. Haven't had a chance to use it while elk hunting but have been whitetail hunting on some cold nights.

Pack 'er full of wood, close the dampers and don't touch it for 6 hours and prepare to become warm.

Great tent and stove!

I've had 3 people in a 12x14 with a stove and a table in the middle and it was way too tight. I now have a 14x16 and have never had 1 single complaint, period. However I didn't know about the Colorado door when I bought the 14x16 and 2 weeks after my first hunt with it I took it back and had it added because there are several here that will tell you nothing sucks more than having a zipper blow out and no way to keep the door closed so at least get that.

Look at this thread and you'll see some other ideas. Oh and Davis all the way!!!!!

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbth...e_Base_Camp_Tent_Suggestions#Post7401205

I think a wall tent would be a pain to set up by yourself.

I would consider two tents, one for solo trips and one for when you have hunting partners. Another option, if you want canvas, would be a Kodiak or Springbar (really easy for one person to set-up). Or maybe a tipi from Seek Outside, Kifaru, etc.

I've used the 12x12 Outback Lodge and 10x14 Kodiak. I also have a Go Lite SL5, but have never owned a bigger tipi. Right now, I have the 8x8 XWT... I can set it up myself, its easy to transport, has a big vestibule, and is rock solid. I've come back to camp with heavy wet snow on my tents and hope the XWT does better than the others.

Thanks for all the input so far guys. I really appreciate it.

I've made my mind up on that three dogs stove for sure. They looks like the bees knees for stoves, and are priced better than most.

Huntinut, I would very rarely have 3 people with me, and plan on rigging up an awning for that rare occasion. I think the 12x14 will be more than enough tent for me, and I think the 12x12 Herder will be plenty big enough too. Thanks for the tip on the Colorado door too...didn't think about that.

4th point,I thought the same thing but the more I read on them and talk to folks about them, they really don't seem too bad to put up by yourself. I'm sure a big one would be, but doesn't seem like the size I'm looking at is. I was looking at an Outback Lodge and a Kodiak, but I really want the stove capability, and that Herder tent is like an Outback with higher walls and the stove option.

quackaddict,

I had a 4-Dog stove for a few years. Used it in my Outback Lodge. They work great, and the baffle really does help create a hotspot and stop embers from going up the flue pipe. Easy to make your own stove if you can weld, but the owner at 4-Dog is a good dude. I got a lot of good info from him when I called my order in.

Before I bought the Kodiak, I spoke to a guy at Kirkham's about putting a stovejack in a Springbar. No problem, but they wanted to put it in the roof. I would put it in one of the endwalls. You could also get a stovejack from Ti Goat and install it yourself in whatever tent you want.

Jason

Forgot to mention that Davis had videos of wall tent set-up on youtube. You might be able to find them still.

I've actually thought about the stove in a Springbar a good bit. There's just too many options, and not a damn place around here to go see any of them.

We have a 12x14 Davis. It's awesome for the wife and I, and could easily accomodate another.

Our past tents are a Mountain Hardware Trango 2-man, and a Cabelas Alaskan Guide 8-man. In comparison this wall tent is like a house.

The 12x14 with internal frame is really no big deal to set up.

Thanks for the pictures MM.

One other question, how do wall tents or Herders handle wind? It can get a little breezy down here in NM.

I haven't had ours in serious wind yet.

At the Icebreaker shoots, Pat has had a wall tent right up on a ridgetop in 30+ mph winds. The tent seemed to handle that with no trouble.

What about rain? Do canvas tents need to be tarped?

They'll shed a lot of water, some more than others depending on treatment of course, but all will eventually soak through in a steady downpour. A tarp not only helps repel snow and water, but also helps prevent sun-fade and stove embers from directly hitting your tent. Consider it cheap insurance.

Thanks GW...I appreciate the input.

The tarp will also allow snow to slide off easily to help reduce snow load.

Below are pics of my 10x14 Kodiak during an early October mule deer hunt. Its hard to see the tent under the snow and tarps! With the tarps set-up, it did pretty good in the snow. I wouldn't leave it unattended and hunt all day though. That snow was very wet and heavy. It stuck to the canvas like glue. It slid off of the tarps pretty good but could still collect in pockets. I don't know if you'd want to leave a wall tent unattended in that type of snow either. But, I do think that walltent roofs with tarps are pretty good at shedding snow as long as there aren't long clear spans of canvas without frame support. Maybe someone can comment on this and whether the roof needs to be cleared regulary or it can handle being unattended for the day.

I do like canvas tents, especially during archery season. I think the white color stays cool, and the canvas breathes better than nylon/poly. Canvas just seems less stuffy. Downsides to me are that canvas does not hold heat as well as a doublewall tent, but if you're running a woodstove this won't be an issue. When canvas gets wet, its heavy and takes a long time to dry. If you have a helper to break camp its not so bad. Not hard by yourself either, but more of a hassle than a nylon/poly tent. A nylon/ply tent still needs to dry so you need a warm/dry place when you get home either way.

One other thing to consider... I don't think I'd set-up a wall tent in an exposed area during the fall/winter. Last elk season I arrived in camp along the Snake River where the wind was gusting 30-50 mph. I had my 4-season dome (XWT) and it was 100% rock solid out in the open. I wouldn't have wanted to set-up a wall tent in those conditions. This area is exposed with few protected sites. In some places like this, a wall tent seems like it can be a limitation.

That first night along the Snake there was a torrential downpour that came with the wind. I literally had a stream running under my tent. The floor stayed dry and the tent didn't move in the wind. The Kodiak would have been fine with the super thick floor, but the body of the tent would have been moving a lot... the tension bars flex and abosorb a lot of the wind energy. As the canvas moves, the body will shed some of the wind. Some wall tents will act like a sail and then you are relying on the strength of the frame and seams in the canvas.

If you buy a walltent, I'd check with the manufacturer about wind and snow loads. I believe most recommend protected sites and minimal snow.

I still think there is a time and place for walltents, especially if you are hunting with friends, plan to spend more than a few days, can choose a protected site, etc. Otherwise I think there are better options, especially if you plan to be solo or run quick trips. A rock-solid 4-season dome like the XWT or Artic Oven, or even a tipi. I don't think any of the tipi manufacturers actually say that their tent can handle a snow load though. Which leads me to another comment... lots of companies show pics of their tents in the snow, but its always been cleared before the pic. I like to see how the tent looks when its been unattended for the day while I'm hunting. If you have someone in camp for the day tending chores, they can keep the snow off. But tipis will start to sag at the base, and wall tents can start to sag where the walls meet the roof.

I really can't tell the height of that dome tent, but I need one that I can standup in. I have had dome tents with fiber glass poles collapse in the snow. I use a similar setup in warm weather tough.
Here are two photos of serious snow. The top one ended up with 4 ft.

Snow load really isn't an issue for me in New Mexico. A buddy of mine who has been hunting out here for a lot longer than me says that they worst he has seen it where we hunt was about 16" over 4 or 5 days. I think that I've made up my mind on the Herder tent for the ease of setup and the fact that they will make me one with 5' walls instead of 4'. Those tents go up like a Cabela's Outback Lodge, which is what I was thinking about, but really want a stove option. I also kicked around a Springbar/Kodiak and a Cabela's dome(XWT or Alaskan Guide), but again, I want a stove option. I do still want a dome/tipi/springbar for quick overnight trips, but I can make do for right now with the Herder.

I really appreciate all of the input from everyone. Thanks guys.

5 foot walls makes it harder for the snow to slide off......

[quote=quackaddict

One other question, how do wall tents or Herders handle wind? It can get a little breezy down here in NM. [/quote]

Nothing worse than chasing your Wall Tent over the countryside in a high wind.

For my 12 x 14 with CampMor internal frame, I cut 4 six foot steel fence posts in half --- to make 8 tent stakes. Two of the tent ropes slip over each stake. I wouldn't think of using anything less. One mishap will convince you.

Son-in-Law has a Davis 14X16 with internal frame that we've used for several years. We cut our own poles, cut the rafter poles in two and added couplers. Makes them fit the pickup truck better and we haven't seen any problem with strength yet.
More than enough room for 4 big guys, full cots, kitchen and storage. His isn't canvas, it's one of the treated synthetics and it's wearing well so far.
We put down 3 small poly tarps then cover that with indoor/outdoor carpet he picked up as remnants. Works very well for our needs.

I couldn't recommend a herder type tent if you plan to spend any time at all in it. Even with 5' walls, the only place you'll be able to stand is in the center. I spend 30+ nights a year in a wall tent and don't want to be crowded, crouched, or confined.

A few years ago I spent one night in a Cabela's Outback Lodge on an antelope hunt in a wind storm and what a POS that thing was! Center pole broke the first night and that tent whipped so hard it sounded like you were sleeping in a potato chip bag. Found a section of sign pole and used 550 cord to lash it to the broken pole to finish out the trip. My cousin returned it to Cabela's for a refund as soon as we got home. He now owns a 12x14 Davis (hint).

saddlesore - its not really a dome, its a Kodiak like the Springbar. Ceiling is 6ft 6in.

Quack,

You can put a stovejack in just about any tent. Just be careful and use good judgement. More than likely, someone has already done it.

Here's a 12x12 Outback Lodge that I used with a 3-Dog from Four-Dog. Pics are from an archery elk trip with wife and son.

This tent had the old zipper design that failed during a terrible snowstorm on a rifle elk hunt. My buddy was sound asleep even with the wind and snow blowing. I wanted to check the tension of the ropes and the door zipper got stuck with the door wide open and snow blowing inside! I did a quick sewing job to close the door and cut the mesh out of the window in the door to get in and out. What a freaking pain. That tent went back to Cabelas.

If the price was right, I would get another Outback for quick trips just because it sets up quickly. Apparently the zipper has been improved. I wouldn't use it in snow or expose it to high winds though.

I think one downside to a nylon/poly singlewall tent is that the body can act as a bellow and pump smoke into your tent if the wind is just right. Cabela's used to have a video of the Alaknak in the wind. If you watch that video its easy to see how it would be a smoke pumper too.

Tents are trade-offs. No way around it. If money were not object, I'd get an Arctic Oven.

the stove do a crime? why's it in jail?

Great info, thanks for sharing that.


In the USMC (in my days) we used essentially a heavy-azzed wall tent for a lot of field purposes. I don't recall the exact dimensions, but a "Tent, General Purpose, Medium" probably 16x24 or so. Anyway, big and heavy as hell. For stakes we used what was known as "engineer stakes", something sorta like a steel fence post but a wider profile. They got a good bite in most any ground. I've seen wind rip a GP tent apart before the stakes pulled out.

Ha! The boy didn't understand "hot" yet and his legs were still shaky.

4th point, that's why I like the Herder tent so much...it's basically a canvas Outback Lodge with higher walls(eg, it should breathe better and will handle an errant ember better). I emailed Springbar about putting a jack into one of their tents, but haven't head back from them yet.

How would you like that Outback for a one person(the 8x8 model) quick setup type of tent? I really wish that Cabela's would make a version of that Outback with higher walls and in the same material as the Alaknak/XWT...of course that would just make things even more difficult for me.

Quack,

I wouldn't worry too much about embers if you're still planning to run a Four-Dog. When I got mine I thought the baffle was B.S. so I sat in front of the stove and watched to see if embers would go up the flue. After awhile I gave up. There's no straight-line shot. Not saying it can never happen, but the only thing that could sneak up there was very light ash from burnt paper. I never got pinholes in that Outback, but I did use an arrestor to keep the rangers from hassling me.

The 8x8 would be a good tent for solo use. The regular price of the Outback is too high now though, for what it is. Have you though about a tipi from Ti Goat, Seek Outside, or Kifaru? These might be the one tent that can do everything for you, but the cost is high.

Another interesting design I considered is the Snowtrekker, but they are not very big.

In a perfect world, I'd have a canvas tent AND something along these lines...

http://www.ems.com/product/index.jsp?productId=3800762&lmdn=Brand&cp=3677338.12946247

Or a small Kodiak/Springbar.

I have used a canvas wall tent for 35 years made in Denver with great success and even affection. I finally bought an internal frame which is an improvement.

Last fall I camped in my hunting buddies' Alaknak. It feels confining to me with the low sidewalls. It takes just as long to set up. It doesn't smell right or reflect light very well. In wet conditions it is hard to ventilate. I would go with the canvas tent without question. Elk like water.

Size is a personal choice. I have learned that except for my family and a few friends I don't want a crowd in my tent. I have a 10 x 14 footer which is fine for 2. It is the cooktent for larger groups. I used to sleep 4 in it, but I was related to them. A big tent is harder to set up, heavy and exposes a lot of tent to the wind. Better to have two smaller tents for a group. It is easier to find a flat spot for a smaller tent in the mountains.

So tell me more about a tipi...specifically a 6 man size. Enough for 2 and cots if truck camping? Or something like a Cabela's bed roll instead of cots? The 8 man would be ideal size I think, but I can get a 6 man plus stove for the cost of an 8 man.

I have had good success camping out of an 18 foot tipi in places with good road access and flat ground. It is a beautiful and functional way to live in the mountains. Transporting the poles which are as long as 24-27 feet is a challenge. The best solution if you are not a welder is a contraption like a canoe trailer.

A tipi with a fire and a liner is warm, cheery and roomy. I like to watch the moon rise thru the smoke hole. Six people could fit in it. Eight is a lot in any tent. For big groups, one large tent can function as the gathering and cooking spot. People can sleep in smaller nylon tents.

There is a big jump in usable space between the 6 and 8 man..
Walk in comfort and space to store duffel and still have all the stand up area to yourself. The stove won't be "always in the way" with the 8 man.
Compromise on the stove and buy it later...
Just a few of my observations.

Probably won't buy a stove for a few months, but still don't want to spend the extra $200 for the 8 man. If mama ain't happy with tipi camping, I'll just buy a big ass, cheap wally-world dome for the 3 nights a year that she camps.

Will a liner help with the condensation on the inside of a tipi?

Yup. That's what they're made for.

Good place to buy one?????

If it's for a SO, then straight from SO.

farmer,
A liner, properly installed helps everything- it makes it warmer, cooler, drier and will draft better with a fire.

Thanks for the info. Just have to find one that will fit my tipi.

Very cool!

A huntiing tent should not have zippers, because they fail. Better to have canvas ties. A sod cloth along the bottom helps hold the heat.

A tipi liner need not be elaborate or made for a specific tent. You just need some light tarps, with ties on the top about 6 feet high. Old flannel sheets would work pretty well. Set up the cover so it is several inches above the ground with the liner touching the ground. With a fire the tipi will draw outside air between the cover and liner and out the smoke hole by convection. In warm weather, the tipi will draw air on its own. In hot weather you can roll up the north side of the cover and pull cool air from the shade up and out the smoke hole.