What is the consesus on this process - leaving the carcass behind, and hauling the meat out boneless. I would think this would save a ton of energy when your animal is far away from established roadways. Is it legal in your state? How do you prove the animals gender? Obviously if you have a bull, you'll be hauling horns, but when you have a cow?

Kaiser Norton

Same as if you only quarter it, you need to leave evidence of sex naturally attached to one piece of meat in CO. Sex organs, or for a cow part of the udder attached to a large chunk of the hind quarter.

Saves a ton of weight if you're packing meat on your back. The only drawback is, you can get some tough meat if you trim it off the bone before rigor mortis sets in. It's best to leave it in quarters at least overnight, and bone it out right before you put it in the pack.

Horns don't count for proof of sex in CO unless attached to the body. They are OK for proof of 4 pt. minimun though

In Wyoming it is different, I've been checked three times with boned meat and it's not been a problem. In Colorado we would leave a testicle (or I have heard the udder as smokepole said, for a cow) on each hind quarter as proof of sex-as saddlesore said, horns weren't enough. Unless time is an issue or you were close with horses or equipment, it sure is easier to bone it out on the spot. Even if quartering I'd never gut one (unless it had to be left).

Helps to have snow

My pal's favorite method....

I've been doing the gutless method for years !

I can't remember the last animal I had to drag. It is the only way I do it. Some claim the meat is better left on the bone. Maybe, but there is no where near enough difference to justify that pain in the azz in my opinion.

I did gutless last year for the first time, but didn't debone. I just dropped pulled the quarters, backstraps and then the tenderloin from behind that back rib. Left a testicle on one quarter. Then I took the brisket/rib meat and some neck meat in a small bag. I'll never do it any other way again, unless it is an easy load. Too quick and easy.

I also think the meet stays cleaner for processing later when quartering in the field. Thank God for horses and mules.

I've done a bunch of them gutless and for sure it saves a lot of work.

However......I'm convinced that boning a freshly killed animal can make them tougher. If the muscles are cut before they go into rigor mortis, the fibers will shrink which makes them tougher. Cooling meat too fast will do it, too, in a process known as cold shortening. This is a problem if you shoot one when it's really cold and immediately skin it.

It's possible to remove the 4 quarters with only minimal cutting of muscles. Removing the meat from the bone, though, and taking out the loins will allow the muscles to contract while still warm.

Over the years, the most memorably tough animals I've shot have all been done gutless. In recent years, I've been using llamas to pack meat. I field dress the deceased and skin depending on how hot or cold the weather is. By the time I get back with the llamas, it's usually ready to bone. If I shoot it in the evening. I'll let it lie and bone it the next morning.

Here's a technical rundown of what's going on:

13 Rigor & Cold shortening

13.1 Introduction
Rigor mortis is a loss of muscle extensibility marking the conversion of muscle to meat. In other words, living muscles can be stretched and they return to their resting length when released. Meat cannot be stretched and has very little elasticity. A strong attempt to stretch a length of meat will merely rip it.

Just before a muscle sets in rigor mortis, it may attempt to shorten. Refrigeration increases the shortening - giving rise to the name cold shortening. But even cold shortening is weak relative to contraction of a living muscle. A muscle will only contract if there are no skeletal restraints. What does this mean? Consider a beef animal walking into the abattoir on all four legs - a leg at each corner of the body. We slaughter it and suspend it by its hindlimbs. The muscles ventral to the vertebral column are stretched and cannot shorten before rigor mortis develops. But the muscles dorsal to the vertebral column have no skeletal restraints and are free to contract - either from the very weak shortening just before rigor develops, or the slightly stronger cold shortening caused by refrigeration.

Why is this important? Because shortening decreases sarcomere length and increases the overlap of thick and thin myofilaments. This increases the toughness of the meat. Nobody likes tough meat. It is important to understand how to minimize cold-shortening.

The key point to grasp is - the sarcomere can only shorten if it still has ATP and has not yet developed rigor mortis. An exhausted muscle has minimal glycogen, therefore minimal post-mortem re-synthesis of ATP, therefore it develops rigor mortis early. Once rigor has developed - the muscle cannot shorten. We are safe. We cannot make meat tough by rapid refrigeration.

Cold-shortening is a very complex phenomenon. The most likely cause is the effect of low temperature on the sarcoplasmic reticulum. The sarcoplasmic reticulum works hard using ATP to sequester calcium ions. When it is cooled - it begins to fail. Calcium ions remain in the cytosol. The muscle slowly contracts. Cold shortening is more severe in red muscles than in white muscles because red muscles have a weak sarcoplasmic reticulum.

13.2 Rigor mortis
The conversion of muscles to meat is completed when muscles have depleted their energy reserves or have lost the ability to utilize remaining reserves. In living muscles at rest, an ATP molecule binds to each myosin molecule head and in this condition the myosin head is said to be "charged". In resting muscle, further developments between the actin and myosin of thin and thick myofilaments are prevented by the intrusion of tropomyosin molecules. Contraction in living muscle is initiated by the release of calcium ions from the sarcoplasmic reticulum, and followed by the removal of the tropomyosin intrusion. As a muscle contracts, charged myosin molecules heads attach to actin molecules, ATP is split to ADP with a release of energy, and the myosin molecule head swivels to cause filament sliding. The myosin molecule head, which is still attached to its site on the actin, can only detach itself if a new ATP molecule is available to be be bound. When muscle is converted to meat, myosin molecule heads remain locked to actin and even passive filament sliding is impossible.

The four legs have the bone in them when I use the no gut method, but the back strap is definitely tougher when it is filleted out off the spine vs leaving it attached

We always do the gutless deal but never bone. Boning will make meat tougher and if it's warm out it doesn't cool as well as if it's left on the bone. I also feel that it's easier to pack when it's left on the bone. A pile of boned out meat just kinda settles into the bottom of a pack and tends to ride too low. With a quarter it has some rigidity that helps keep the load distributed more evenly. Whole quarters are better at forming a protective crust when they're hung and have less places for flies to blow eggs.

Debone or not, one thing I know for sure is that I don't plan on ever wallowing in another gigantic gutpile from an elk or moose again. I also like to split the hide from the root of the tail up to the back of the neck and skin it down in halves as opposed to starting at the bottom. That way I don't have to cut the tougher lower leg skin and I feel like it helps me keep the hair off thw meat better.

I prefer to skin from the bottom up for 1 reason - hair. The cut edge will get the most hair on the meat and the belly has the least amount of meat exposed to hair. I've done it both ways, though. Dressing elk or moose is in one aspect like golf - you play it where it lies.

We've been doing gutless and leaving the meat on the quarters (except backstrap and loins, obviously). Have done antelope, mule deer and moose this way and see no reason to go back to gutting and hauling out, unless the pickup was right there. Even then I believe that I'd process it that way anyway. Makes it easier to handle, hang, etc....

So gutless saves you about 10 minutes? mtmuley

Nothing quite like all blooded up in a dry camp in Brown Bear country! I like staying clean! rather than blood up to my elbows with the bugs and bears! Just prefer after doing both ways!

On a 3 yr old mule deer processed gutless, meat weighed 70#, leg bones weighed 7.5. The bones are worth that much extra effort for their help in stabilizing the load, crusting to keep flies off, and later hanging or aging the meat. YMMV

And like KK says, I stay way cleaner. Besides I'm quite certain that I cannot gut an elk or moose in 10 minutes without either cutting myself or the stomach open and making an even bigger mess.

I'll even take a saw and cut a window in the ribs so I can reach in and take the heart as its one of our favorite eating parts. With that in mind I just don't see a downside to the gutless method unless you just enjoy getting all bloody and nasty.

Anybody weighed out elk quarter bones? I'm curious now.

An elk femur weighs a sh*tload. And more with each mile from the truck.

I'm pretty much aligned with the crowd bone in the quarters and cut from the bottom to expose the meat - I try to keep the neck meat attached to the front quarter for simplicity. Where we usually hunt it is almost always packing out 1-4 miles so dragging isn't an option. I can't gut an elk in 10 minutes but I'm sure somebody can- mine is closer to 1/2 a bloody hour if he falls in an awkward spot.

Game bags in your pack allow you to hang what you cant get out the first trip and keep the meat clean and away from scavengers overnight. I want to hang the meat in a cold room for a couple of days before butchering but a big cooler full of ice drained regularly works almost as well.

I may shoot one close to the truck and haul it to the butcher after gutting - but that would be a huge change.....Oh if you take out a front quarter with the shot we usually trim out the quarter to remove any bone fragments.

At Walmart for about a buck or so, you can buy a light weight plastic painter's tarp. I think they are about 10'x 12' or so Spread it out on the ground to lay the meat on as you are processing in the field. Really helps keeping the meat clean and it weighs only a few ounces, folds up to about 2" x 6" and 3/4" thick

If there is snow on the ground, we do the gutless method leaving skin on the quarters bone in.
If you skin a bit of the flank with each quarter, you can use the flap to cover the exposed cut meat.

Then we drag out the quarters and carry out the backstrap/skirt/flank/brisquet/tenderloin/neckmeat.
2 guys, one trip, everything out.

No snow- we carry skin off, bone in quarters. Along with everything else as well.

Does anyone know how long you can leave a skinned but unopened elk lie before you HAVE to get the meat off to avoid a bad flavor?

I carry a section of Tyvek house wrap in my pack. It weighs almost nothing and can be used for all kinds of things. Water and wind proof, tough as all get out. Nice to spread meat out on as you quarter or debone.

how did you keep it clean to skin it? once skinned, it's only a few minutes to separate the quarters. Why leave it lay at all, with the guts in?

My hunting buddy shot a cow in the neck and it ran off with the herd, which split about 3 directions. 4 or 5 of us searched but couldn't find any blood in the snow, just lots of tracks going every which-way.

Temps were below freezing with overnights below zero. We found the elk first thing the next morning and by then the meat had already gone south. We quartered it up but had to salvage what we could ourselves as it was so bad the butcher wouldn't take it. Elk hide is a heck of an insulator.

Since then I my son-on-law and myself have both killed an elk and had to leave it overnight. In both cases we used the gutless method and quartered the elk, taking only the fillets and backstrap the evening of the kill. We left the quarters laying hide-side up on brush overnight, allowing some circulation but keeping the birds off. Both animals were very good.

My goal is to get the most tender meat possible. To do that, you need to wait until rigor mortis before cutting. Also, I like to avoid gutting as much as anyone. I was just wondering what would happen if you skinned one to get it cooling but left it whole for a while to stiffen up and avoid gutting at the same time.
For maximum tenderness, you can pull the back legs forward to stretch the loins before they stiffen. Keeping is clean isn't too much of a problem. Just leave the whole carcass on the hide.

On elk I always go gutless. Only one I gutted, I looked like a mass murderer, covered in blood from armpit to finger tip...

I'll bone it out right away if I'm packing it very far or if it's just convenient. We did two cow last year gutless and quartered with the hide one. Skinned them a day later in a more convenient place. That worked slick as well.

Probably one of the worst things to do is let it lay with the guts in. There is a tremendous amount of heat there. With guts out, you are at least cooling inside and outside.

Get the hide off, at least cut into halves with the pelvis split and hang it or lay on top of some logs or ? so air can circulate around it.

I would want to get all that blood and offal out away from the good meat as soon as possible.

Gutless for me. On a male you can leave a section of penis attached to one leg. That way you do not get hair all over like leaving testicles attached.

I hunt Wilderness areas and I don't have draft animals. I'm not smart enough to shoot them early, either. I carry a small tarp that I run through my Foodsaver so it makes a really compact package.

Start with this:



Gut
Skin
Cut the head off
Leave overnight



Come back the next day with pack boards and helpers
Remove quarters
Remove backstrap and swinging loins
Bone the neck and ribs
Shag it to the truck



You'd be surprised how heavy the bones are.



P

Pharm, nice job of taking care of your harvest, I have seen some pretty pathetic examples of field dressing/butchering....

+1. Great job Pharm!

I don't understand how guys that gut an elk end up such a mess. I can gut one and clean up with a paper towel or two. I gut em, then peel the hide off as they lay upside down. The hide lays out perfect to keep crap off the quarters as I cut them loose. I also carry a tarp to lay quarters on before they go into game bags. Guys that make a mess need more practice. mtmuley

I would never leave the liver, heart or catfish tenderloins behind, so I'm guts up to my ears.

Actually if the animal is lying is a good position it's easy to open them up and not look like one of the internal organs when I get finished.

we've been doing it for 5 years now, with a 4.5 mile pack out it's a good move.

Thanks. This bull was particularly satisfying.

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/8182148/Re:_Third_hand_bull,_three_gen#Post8182148



P

I don't know what a Catfish tenderloin is, but the filets are easily removed after the backstraps come off by reaching down from the top and slicing the connective tissue on the ends. I like liver, but usually don't take it on elk because of it's size. I don't eat it after it's been frozen, and it is way too big for one meal for my family.

says the guy with no dogs.....

Have two of the hairy critters. But seeing as how they both live in the house, and the wiener dog I swear is rotting from the inside anyway, can't see surviving the first night without a gasmask if I was to feed them 5 pounds of elk liver!

Gutless method only way to do a moose.. One of the few times had to gut a moose it sucked. Buddy got a bull in the evening loosing light fast so we had to gut it and leave it overnight. Talk about a pain in the ass, we had two rangers had use the winches to hold one of the rear legs the other winch to keep it on its back and I went in with the knife after I was done looked like I came out of a slaughter house.. The next day coming in we came in from the top 3 wide praying boo boo the brn bear wasn't having a morning snack..

I prefer good Elk meat so leave it on the bone. Dump the guts, skin one side, Saw the hind quarters off, then skin the offside, saw them in the center and saw the lower leg off leaving proof of sex attached, Pack them out one at a time. Then peal off the front shoulder and saw the rib cage center brisket and below back strap that's another pack. Then flip it over and skin the other side. peal front shoulder and saw the ribs off load the pack frame. Final load of meat is the back up to the skull. Generally have to saw it in half. If it is a little bull or cow, Skull cap with Eyes may come out with the Heart/Liver split between front shoulder pack loads. Big bull racks get a trip out with a bag of trimmings Heart/Liver. 5 to 7 pack loads come out and I do not save Capes or skin. Packing meat is part of elk hunting. Leaving it on the bone until you can process it correctly gives you the best quality meat possible. If your Bow hunting in August/September heat, Speed is the only excuse to cut corners. The gutless method is the wasteful method. Waste of game is a crime here.

never mind

don't want to start a fight

If I take all 4 quarters, backstraps, filets, neck roasts, rib meat, and brisket. But I don't waste time wallowing around in a mountain of innards. Just what exactly am I wasting? I've also described earlier how to take the heart doing the gutless method not that I've ever hunted anything anywhere that leaving organ meat was against the law.

Gut everything you want but to say gutless is the wasteful way of doing it is pure nonsense.

I agree Kid as we know in AK you don't get caught wasting anything if you do get caught the Brown shirts (state troopers) are going to have a field day with you. All we use is the gutless method, We don't debone though out in the field reason why in unit 13 in Alaska its against the regulation for that unit you have to bring all meat out on the bone to include the rib meat attached to the ribs. I know I know lower 48 isn't AK. Also I will add don't get caught bringing the antlers out first before the meat in AK. I'm probably going elk hunting by myself and if I get an elk I will use the gutless method on the elk cause its a lot easier to do when their is only one person.

No it's not. It's pure bullsh**.

I haven't gutted an elk in years. We take the quarters off and frame meat (brisket, neck, loins, etc), skinning the quarters if there is no snow to drag with (leaving hide to stich over the open area with para-cord like mentioned earlier). I like to leave the meat on the bone on the quarters as it allows you to age it properly without losing a lot and it also helps in identifying the cuts. If you can't id the meat when packaging it leads to Russian Roulette in the kitchen. For maximum yield, it is best to keep the hide on the quarters when possible.

To avoid bone fragments and bone marrow all over from sawing bone I use a knife for everything. With a bit of anatomical knowledge you can have the rear quarters and hocks off in a few minutes. Of course, I am probably ignorant and obviously waste meat, so go ahead and pass this over.

I weighed all the parts before, but I don't have the records in front of me. I know a mature bull hind quarter will be about 80 lbs, with about 10 of that being hide. The front is about 50. A decent skinned/de-boned (lower jaw) head is around 50 as I recall. The hind bones must be about 20lbs. The frame will yield about 80lbs in the field depending on how much you trim it. A cow will be about 1/2 or 3/5 of that as I think. It has been a few years since I broke it down. I can't remember the weight of the hock, as it has been a long time since my truck has seen an elk hoof.

Anyone who says the gutless method is wasteful is a moron.

Since starting gutless I don't think I'll do it any other way unless I can put the whole thing in the truck and drive to a place I can hang it.
Was elk hunting with two partners this weekend and one guy tagged a nice size bull at dark. The other fellow was grumbling about how long we were going to be out there dealing with it. I've helped him deal with a moose before and even with a bunch of us there it was over 3 hours before we were done, so I was in no mood to repeat that. I did it my way and and hour and a half later we were finished. Not much left on the carcass when its over either.