yes or no? I have never hunted elk before-would like to one day, but my next gun purchase will be alight weight gun of some sort in probably 270-plenty for elk in my book, but I have found a 25 06 that fits real good, but is it enough for elk...and bear?

Dave

is it legal? in AZ yes, would i use my 25-06? NO!!!! i would take my 270 at the lowest. some will argue that the 25-06 with accubonds, TSX or other good bullets would take down an elk. and yes, they are right. with a "perfect" shot, it will. i, personally do not think there is such thing as "over gunned" (unless you are shooting a 50BMG for varmints or coues deer) i like to have a little room for error. now, saying that, my elk gun is a 30-06 with 180 accubonds. that is the biggest gun i have so thats what i carry.

Yes they will work under good conditions and with proper shot placement. The gunsmith that built my 257 AI swore by that caliber for elk. But think of this. You spend all the money to go on an elk hunt somewhere either guided or unguided and you see a nice bull quartering away at 300 yards or so do you really want to be holding a 257 Bob? While they will work I would stick with a 30-06 with a quality 180gr bullet or larger.

Dave,
Lighweight is fine, especiallyin the mountains. But don't think of lightweight as also being a smaller caliber. I wouldn't go smaller than a .270Win and only then with premium bullets. Better yet a 30-06. Another to consider, a Kimber Montana in .308 - 5#'s 2 oz. or a Montana in 300WSM - 6#'s 3 oz..
Good luck.

I'm of the belief the 25-06 may be one of the most underrated cartridges around. With a good bullet (120 TSX?) it's a perfectly decent elk killer. I know more than one guy that has whacked and stacked a lot of elk with the 25-06. One guy I know uses it as his only rifle and generally shoots 120 gr Factory Corelockt's. His elk kills are impressive.

lubbockdave �

I�ve been hunting elk for over 20 years with a 7mm Rem Mag and 160g bullets. My minimum recommendation is generally a .270 and 150g bullets.

I have a Ruger .257 Roberts that I love. Very accurate, light recoil, easy to carry. Considered taking it elk hunting last year but decided against it � I have too many other rifles that are better suited to the task.

That said, I have a load I am very confident could do the job � a 120g A-Frame at a bit over 2900fps. Best choice for elk? No. As always, proper shot placement and a willingness to forego some shots would make it an acceptable choice. And better than a .243, IMHO.

I would not take a 25-06 or 257 out to hunt elk. However if that is what I was carrying when I found an elk I would not run away with my tail between my legs.

I have taken elk with a 270 and a 308 and as my handle suggests an 8mm and some more in between the 270 or 308 is a good starting point for an elk rifle.

As for bullets shoot the bullet that you have confidence in. I killed many elk with standard bullets. Used 154 grain Hornadys in a 7 mag for years then some one convinced me that I "NEEDED" premium bullets to kill elk. The elk that I shot with premium bullets died just the same as the ones shot with standards.

My point is elk are not armor plated but they are larger and tougher than deer so if you hunt with a gun of less than ideal power make extra sure of your shot placement.

8mmwapiti

But again if you spend all the money for an out of state elk hunt and you are faced with a 300+ yard quartering away shot on a nice bull do you really want to be holding a 257 anything?

Hunterbug,

I believe the 25 06 will do the job quartering away at 300 yards...but I'd much rather be a good enough hunter to get with in 100 yards myself-out to 250+ yards it kind of becomes a shoot instead of a hunt, no?

Like Brad, I'm sure it will work and know somebody who uses nothing else (with 120 Nosler partitions) and tags his elk every year--his wife used the same rifle successfully when she drew a Shiras moose tag. But he's an Idaho cowboy and can pick his shots. I have to fly, pay for out of state licenses and generally spend a bunch of time and money to hunt, so I would never limit myself to shots I could safely take with a .25-06. A .338 and 210 Noslers is about right. When you're from a a thousand miles away, there's no "next weekend" or "next split" if you have to pass an iffy shot. The temptation to go ahead and take a poke is mighty strong, and the consequences potentially mighty bad.

However, I do consider the .25-06 the absolute cat's a$$ for west Texas whitetails and antelope.

And I'm all for getting close. I am not however convinced that a 257 caliber is a good tool for extended quartering shots on larger game. Yes it may work but how well? I figure that if I have to follow an animal more than 50 yards or so then there was a problem somewhere. If you want to get within 100 yards why use a rifle at all? If you are going to Colorado take a muzzle loader and hunt during the rut. It's your hunt and your money but if it were me I would want to maximize my chances of success and I would start by selecting as big of a caliber as I could accurately shoot.

Well,my neighbor has used the 25-06 on alot of Elk and thats all he uses but he also spends 90% of his life out in the woods and knows where they are and can pass on questionable shots.Like most of the others,.270 is as low as I would go with a premium bullet like the Trophy Bonded or Nosler.

Broadside shots are getting scarce in my part of the world and it is important to have a caliber/bullet combo capable of any angle thrown at you and the bigger the better.The two you mentioned can and have killed Elk but in steep country,I want them down yesterday with as little follow up tracking as possible and from what I have seen,the 25-06 and 257 just don't have it to do it reliably everytime like some other much better choices.The 30-06 is probably the best choice(in my opinion) for those that only occasionaly hunt Elk and spend the most time on smaller game.The old 06 falls into that from Horseflies to Elephants category. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Jayco

The TSX's for the .257 cal are 100 gr and 115 gr. That be said the 115gr. TSX retains enough weight it doesn't need to be 120 gr.

A shoot instead of a hunt? Not necessarily, no. But you say you�ve never hunted elk before, so I understand the question.

You may be lucky to SEE an elk, let alone get close to one, especially if you are not familiar with the territory or the habits of the local elk population. When you do find an elk, the shot may be near or far and you may have all day to set up your shot or mere seconds. You might spend all day stalking your elk only to have another hunter stumble into the area and take a shot from another angle, ruining your opportunity. In short, a 250 yard shot might be all you get and you might (and probably will) work darn hard to get it.

Case in point, a few years back we spotted a herd of about 80 elk bedded down on a knoll below us. The country was open sage. We crept up to a ridge and watched them from behind a sage bush from 11:00 until dusk, at a range of about 500 yards. Try as we did, we could not figure out a way to get closer. While we watched we were overrun by antelope, rained on, sleeted on and snowed on. They started moving at dusk, off the knoll and into a valley below it. Again we got as close as we could, about 450 yards. I laid down on my back and pushed myself head first through the snow, sage and cactus for another 100 yards. Slowly sitting up, I was able to find one legal bull but it was laying down behind a cow � no shot � and shooting light was going fast. They finally got up but the bull stayed behind the cow. I followed them with the scope and when the cow stopped I took the shot � 350 yards as measured with a GPS and mapping software. That shot came after days of hard but unsuccessful hunting and was the only opportunity I had to take a bull that season.

My last bull was taken at 213 lasered yards, again in open sage. A herd of maybe 60 was strung out and on the move. I had no time to pull out the shooting sticks and simply took a knee. A break appeared in the line of elk and a bull stopped in the middle of the line. I lined up the crosshairs on its shoulder and just as I was about to drop the hammer on the .45-70 a larger bull ran up and stopped, chasing the smaller one away. I switched targets and sent a 350g North Fork on its way, and got my bull. Had I tried to get within 100 yards the elk would have been in the next county and I would have gone home empty handed.

On the other hand, I�ve had elk hunts where I was nearly run over by one. You�ll need to decide what you want to do if a long shot is presented and prepare accordingly. I practice out to 400 yards and have no intentions of letting a legal animal go just because it�s outside knife range � I love elk meat and work far too hard all year so I can spend a few days trying to get some.

I know one old guy who shot over 40 elk, including some very nice bulls, with a Savage 99...in 250-3000. Another killed six nice bulls with six shots with his 243.

While that may not be your first choice, it's not like the bullets are going to bounce off. As with all elk rifles, hit the lungs and the rest of your problems are minimal.

lubbockdave- I like Brad think the world of the 25/06. I feel it is a lot more capable than most will ever have the chance to realize.

The Roberts is a cool round for sure but for whatever reason I view it as a 243. I personally feel that the 25/06 is a big step up in power even though the numbers would not show it.

Bottom line is that for black bruins and elk I would hunt with either an 25/06 or a 270 and not fret one bit. Which would I choose, well it would for sure be the one that fit me the best.

There isn't much in this world that I would not take on with the 25/06 and a 115 TX.

Good luck to ya

Mark D

Regarding the 25-06, if you do your job well it will certainly do its job well. I happen to think you would be better served with a 7mm-08, 7x57 Mauser, 308 Win or 30-06.

I have taken elk with the 308 Win, 444 Marlin and 338 Win Mag. The 338 Win Mag really anchors the big bulls and thats really the diffference in choosing cartridges. The others work, but may have you tracking most elk several yards down the road after hitting them, especially small bores like the 25-06. So if your comfortable tracking game, by all means use it.

Next thing you know, these whack em and stack em experts will be telling us to use .243's on elk <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />. Plenty of elk have also been killed with 22s and if you are from Montana you know that plenty of cattle have been killed and rustled with 22s. Come on quit the bullshit. The guy needs good advice on a hunt that will cost him plenty of bucks - more than the new rifle by far. They only reason one would tout 25-06s and 257s for elk is if they (or their wife or teenager) is recoil shy. The guy needs to buy a larger caliber rifle - as big as he is comfortable shooting. And then he need to shoot it a lot to become comfortable with it. And if it ends up being a .270 (and I repeat the above suggestions that this should be the minimum caliber), he better be prepared to pass those deeply quartering away shots. And Mark how can you praise .340 Weatherbys on another post and 25-06s for elk here? Vic/

Dave, I beleave beware of a man who only has one gun, for chances are He shoots it well. I know men here that shoot there guns well better than most, and get by with smaller cal. The question is are you one of them. I would never recomend a 257 or 25-06 for a first time elk hunter, I would recomend a min. 30-06 or 300 something. They leave a bigger blood trail. Duckgunner.

Huh.....WTF?

What on earth does the fact that I like the 340 have to do with any of this????? That thread was about the 338 vs the 340 if I remember right.

I have used a ton or rounds on critters and would gladly hunt the world with a 25/06, and or a 340. His question though was around the 25/06 so that is what I answered.

I never said over on that other forum that you had to have a 340 for anything. I just said that it is a good round and I enjoy it and use it a lot. I never said that you had to have one for this or that purpose! I also believe I said that I like and want to use the 340 and that it wasn't a need!

I don't know how much experience you've with elk Fishdoc but I've a pretty darn good idea it is fairly limited and not all it could be.

It is not rocket science to take out an elk. To do so one needs to get the bullet where it need be. I've seen plenty enough of them taken with Swifts and 22/250's to know that. And no I am not telling folks that they should use a round like these for elk anymore than I ever said that you had to have a 340 to do so.

Fishdoc it you have some real world experience in taking elk with a 25/06, then by all means please feel free to chime in as I would love to hear it.

I always get a kick out of the fact that the 270/130 combo @ 3K fps has taken a ton load of elk. And yet if one mentions the use of a 25/06 and 115 or 120 combo then some chechako gets all up in arms with it. There is not a bit of diff betwixt those 2, and the critters are for darn sure never gonna know the diff.

You stick a good 25 bullet in the lungs and the critter is toast. You don't stick it where it belongs and you'd better get your Adida's on as it is gonna be a track race. Guess what you do the same thing with a 340 and you'd better put your track shoes on as well. Taking an elk out is about taking out the right equipment and not about this or that cal.

It just isn't rocket science but some sure seem to have a desire to make it that way.

I'd be willing to bet though that you've not been in on the seen a handful of elk with the round (25/06) though.

Trust me, you give me a 25/06 and tell me to hunt elk with it the rest of my life and if I don't take an elk each year it sure as heck won't be because the round isn't adequate!

Mark D

Last November I shot a 6x5 bull with my 30.06 and dropped him, it was a perfect double lung shot and he moved about 50 feet. The range was lasered at 307 yards. If he had moved another 50 feet after the shot he would have been into a steep canyon. If you have ever carried one out of the steep and deep you know what I am talking about. Would a 25.06 have killed him? Probably, would he have made it into the canyon? It's not something I would risk, especially if you are new to Elk hunting.

Buy a bigger Rifle,


BeanMan

I'm not saying that the 25-06 won't work because it will. But on my top ten list of elk rounds it's down around number 25 or so.

lubbockdave �

Get the .25-06 � it�s a great cartridge. Then get something that will be better suited for elk and will work back in TX, too. I�d recommend something between a .270 and a .300 Win Mag. After knocking elk down with a 7mm Mag and 160g bullets since 1981, I finally opted for a .300 Win Mag myself.

For bullets I like the North Forks, Trophy Bonded, A-Frames. In the second place category are the Partition, Accubond, InterBond and Scirocco bullets. Runners up include the Grand Slam, which have worked perfectly well on my elk. I think the main thing to consider with bullets is the velocity and weight. The lighter and/or faster they are the more heavily constructed they should be, IMHO.

YMMV.

You are definately on the light side for Elk with the 25 cal. guns. With very good bullets and the perfct broadside shots, the 25-06 and 257 rob will kill elk fine. But Elk hunting isn't always perfect. If you are traveling along way to hunt for Elk, then I would suggest a bigger caliber - like 270, 30-06 or 308. I had a client last fall damn near lose an Elk with a 257 Weatherby with a broadside shot right behind the shoulder. The light bullet didn't make it into the vitals. They were Hornady 100 gr. Why even take a chance.

i do not think a .257 whole in a elk is big enough. now yes, if it is in the right spot, it is as dead as if shot with a .375 H&H. the limitations of a .25-06 are far to great to carry that gun when there are many other "better" calibers. when i shoot an elk, i wanna leave as big a whole as i can. my elk gun is a .30-06 or maybe my 7mag. either way, with either of those guns i shoot heavy ass bullets to leave a big whole! (180's in 30-06 and 160's in 7mag) elk are big, strong critters and my grandpa put 6 wholes in one before it died on year. not all 6 of the wholes from his 30-06 were perfect, but 3 of them hit the vitals and the rest hit near there. ifhe was shooting a 25-06, would he have killed that elk? if he hits it in the lungs/heart yes. but, and this is the nice thing about carrying a bigger gun, if you do make a bad shot and hit it in the guts, the bigger gun is going to leave a bigger whole and deliever more shock to the body, hopefully causing a quicker death. a 25-06 bullet in the gut might/probably wouldnt kill an elk. dont go with the bar minimum, step it up a notch and go with the biggest gun you can shot well

OK then, so the 25 06 will do the job within it's limitations and may not be the best 1st choice. Premium bullets and reloads increase the effectiveness of the round. Good deal. I appreciate the conversation!

Dave

25-06 and 257 can be used, but personally I prefer something that wil shot at least a 160 grn bullet.

I have hunted Idaho with outfitter Billy Cox, who takes elk each year for the freezer. He uses a 25-06. He is also an expert still hunter and takes no shots at more that 100 yards or so.

If you are accurate marksman, and are willing to pass up "iffy" shots, then hunt away!

Roy Weatherby took nearly everything with his .257 magnum. It was his favorite round. I'd recommend 120 grn Barnes or Nosler partitions.

I don't. But then I've killed a few quartering elk at extended ranges with much larger calibers and have seen how they react so I do have the advantage of experience.

that you do my friend, that you do....

thanks for the discussion!!


Dave

Mark, I've been in elk camps since about 1950 (beater boy) and I shot my first elk in 1954 at 15. I've harvested one almost every year since then except when I was in the service from 1956 to 1960. I'd guess we've killed a couple hundred elk in our camps over the years. Ho hum. Learn to step before you leap. I have owned and shot a .257 on mule deer but never on elk and would not use it for elk. It was good for most mule deer situations. I have too much respect for these animals to use a .25 caliber on elk. Never have owned a 25-06 - never saw the need to. I stick with what I said: use as much gun as your capable and confident in using. My minimum recomendation would be a .270. Nothing wrong with that .340. Vic/

I am hear to tell you that the 340 will most definately work.

But then again so will the 25/06, its just a bit less forgiving in limitations.

Mark D

lubbockdave, I live appr 3 hrs from where I hunt elk and depending on which season I hunt most are only 5/9 days long. No question the 25-06 will take elk even the 243 where I hunt is some open country so my shots (range) vary. I use a 30 cal mag last thing I want to worry about is do I have enough rifle if presented that shot and I want my elk down. If a guy doesn't want a mag the 270,280 and 30-06 are good choice, if I hunted the timber might look at a 35 Whelan,308,7x57 maybe 7-08. I don't own a 25-06 would consider it for a timber rifle. My elk rifles are only use once a year for elk so they don't have to double as something else. Where I hunt be alittle undergunned using a 25-06.

Curious of the load you used?

Federal HE Trophy Bonded 165 grain.

Beanman

Buy the biggest gun/caliber you can shoot accurately and comfortably. If thats a 25.06, so be it. I've hunted elk for 27 years (much less than others here) and have seen elk killed with smaller calibers than the 25.06. A friend of mines wife gets the job done with a 7.08 and has for years. I like the 30's but I can shoot them just fine. Good luck !

This is Steve_No on muddy waters computer. One factor nobody has mentioned is the issue that comes up more and more on crowded public land of "whose elk is it?" Most of my elk hunts have either been on ranches or way way back where we didn't have alot of conflict with other hunters. But I understand this is a major issue in some areas, and another reason for selecting a caliber likely to put the animal down before he can get over the ridge and catch a bullet from some other nimrod.

A 25-06 will kill elk decisively if a good bullet is used and I'd not hesitate to use a 115 TSX on any quartering shot on any bull... there is more downright bullshit spewed about elk rifles than any other single topic except, perhaps, bear defense handguns...

Right on Brother!

Mark D

My question would be to when people are saying use a "big enough" gun, what are they referring too? What is the practical difference between the .257 vs. .277 vs. .308 dia. bullets? Is it the Sectional Density .257, 120 gr =.26, .277, 140gr=.26 or the .308, 180gr=.27? Or is it the retained energy downrange. I have read in articles that a round should have a S.D. of .25 or more and energy of 1500 ft-lbs for elk size animals, if this is the case then the 25-06 should be good out to 250 yds. As long as you stay within range it should do the trick as long as you do your job.

My opinion on staying within range has, and always will be if the slug I send into the vitals has enough speed behind it to open up suffienctly to open and wreck the lungs then I say the target is within range for me.

In other words I feel that the whole this or that round will work to 250 yds or whatever just doesn't cut the biscuit for me.

Give me a good shot angle, and proper conditions to shoot and I will toast any bull that walks at 500 yds (and in all honesty a lot further) with your basic 25/06.

Mark D

Very well stated!

I use the 100 grain Barnes XLC chronographed at 3,750 in my .257 Weatherby and I have yet to recover one from elk up to 250 yards, even on slightly quartering shots. This load kills all out of proportion to the paper ballistics. and while I still toy with the idea of moving up to the 115 TSX, I am hesitant to screw with success!

I have shot some elk with a .308, a lot more with the .35 Whelen. I like the .35 better. I shot some deer with the .25-06, a lot of deer with the 257 Roberts, but never considered it an elk caliber. A couple of years ago a good friend of my dad's showed up in our elk camp with a .257 and 100 gain ballistic tips. I strongly suggested he use my .35 instead ( I had killed a bull opening morning) he informed me he had killed three moose with that rifle and bullet and it was good enough for him. He left in a huff that night and never returned. My strong opinions cost my dad a friendship. Last year I hunted with a guide in the Yukon whose grandfather hunts moose every year just a couple miles from our elk camp. He's been doing that for more than fifty years. He's shot more than fifty moose. One year, party hunting and "pushing bush" with neighbors, all the moose came past him, and he killed nine for the group. ( these are farmers meat hunting for their family, and some of the finer points of the rules do get bent!) he has never lost a moose. His rifle is a .250 savage. Do I think most people are OK with a .250, .243 or .257 for elk? NO but... being a bit more diplomatic in our campfire opinions might be in order. Depends on the hunter behind the gun!

castnblast-you're right it comes down to the nutt behind the butt.

Mark D

Lubbockdave and others.....

I might be mistake here, but aren't there certain states that require at least a 27 caliber for Elk hunting????

If this is the case, then I wouldn't purchase a 25'06, as this could cause you to have to purchase another gun if a hunting opportunity opened up in a state with that requirement.

I love the 25'06 and a close friend of mine has taken several deer and elk with his. He swears by it...

Although, when I had to make the decision for my wife and kiddos this year, we purchased 3, .270's. For my sons, they really enjoy shooting their 270 on the range with Remington's Reduced Recoil rounds. A lady or kiddo could shoot those all day.

Never heard of anything like that John, which states are you referring to?

Thx

Mark D

Mark,

I have no hard evidence, so if I am off base here, I am open to correction.

My dad owned a 264 Win Mag and was his favorite hunting gun, but one year he put in for a draw in the Mountain West for Elk (back in the early 1970's). To prepare for the hunt, dad purchased a 7mm Mag, because.....as the story goes....the state where he applied required at least a .27 caliber, for which his 264 would not fit the bill.

Maybe this was a great story for Mom, allowing dad to purchase, yet another gun.....hahahahaha

I do not remember which state.

I think Colorado requires at least a .24 caliber with at least 1,000 pounds of energy at 100 or 200 yards.

Oregon requires .24 caliber.

John, I dont have anything on what states may or may not allow, BUT even if they do allow the 25-06, anything to give you an excuse where you just HAVE to have another gun is alright by me.

Taking the 25-06 on elk would be like a goose hunter using a
28 gauge. Some can do it, most can't, I won't, and doubt those that purport the twenty five ever will.

Sorry, don't buy that analogy one bit... apples and oranges.

Okay, how bout this,

"I doubt those that purport the twenty five ever will (use it on elk).

Will any here really put it on the line when it counts and really do it?

All talk?


I have no doubts the 25 can do it but so far this thread has only produced post that say,
I have a friend, I know this guy, my neighbor,

Has anybody here (this thread has over 600 hits) killed a bull elk with the 25-06?
How about a cow elk?

Does the .270 count? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/help.gif" alt="" />

Jayco

NO! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

I belive that in PA it's 270 or bigger but I may be wrong. In Colorado a 243 is legal and in some states there are no caliber restrictions at all. You can hunt elk with a 25-20 or 22 Hornet. Just because it's legal doesn't make it a good idea.

I might as well go off the deep end here as to calibers/bullets used.I would rather shoot a 30-06 with 180 grain Nosler/Barnes ot TB's than a .300 Win Mag with Federal Classics.I also would rather shoot a .270 stoked with Noslers/Barnes or Trophy Bonded than an a 30-06 with 150 grain K-Mart specials.

I would take a 25-06 loaded with 120 grain Nolsers over a 270 with bargain basket bullets even if they are 150 grains which suck in my opinion from using them..

Load em all up with Premiums and the bigger the better for large game at odd angles.

Jayco

su-ah yep I have cows/bulls with both the 25/06 and with the 257 Wby.

I've also shot geese with a 28 as well.........grins

I kind of find this stuff interesting as many will grab a 270/130 combo and hit the hill and never once blink. But, if you talk about a 25/06/120 combo they do blink and then some.

There is no practical dif between the two rounds and what one will do the other will as well.

Brad and I know a lot of folk out here in Montana and Wyo. A lot of these people carry 25/06's for their personal anything that moves rifle. If they read this thread about the 25/06 and elk and read all the smack being talked about it they would roll over in laughter and then go to finishing their elk steaks.

Mark D

(by the way SU this is or was not aimed at you or anyone else for either)

Mark, I'm sorry but if your statement is true (many in Montana use the 25-06 for everything including elk - my abbreviation of what I believe you said) something is wrong with the crowd you hang out with In MONTANA. Everyone I know from Montana is more sane. Are you simply a rabble rouser? Or are you and your friends having a nice trip? Vic/

AquariumMD, lets hear all about why a 25-06 or 257 can't kill elk efficiently. So far all we've heard is a lot of chest thumping and pompus lecturing but no actual experience with one on elk.

In defense of the 25'06......

�In the end, the choice of an all-around rifle depends on many factors. If you like a gun, you are much more likely to shoot it and shoot it well, so choose a rifle you like. Also, any experienced rifleman knows that where you hit 'em is much more important than what you hit 'em with, so place your emphasis on skills rather than on the size of the rock.�

Jack Steele, https://www.24hourcampfire.com/the_300_winchester.htm

I wouldn't dare say that Jack is endorsing the 25'06, but he has a great point. I would bet that few would hunt Elk and Moose in Colorado with a .243, but it is totally legal. Can most of us kill Elk and Moose with a .243????....oh yeah....but it would be with an outstanding stalk and a nicely placed shot.

It is also worth saying.....if a fella can squeeze off a heart shot with a 25'06, it is much better than a flench and jerk on a .338 Mag....

Mark, somehow I just knew you had done it! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

You boys in Montana make it look to easy.

Know a guy in Anaconda who for the past 20 years has used a 220 swift on elk. Can't talk him out of it, he walks the talk.

SU35-you're right a lot of elk hit the turf here each year with the Swifto and the 22/250. I hear it'll work, or should I say I know it to work.

Mark D

Abolutely nothing wrong with the crowd I hang out with, they tend to be folks who have been there and done that and bought the T shirt. Lots of folk out here have a 22/250 or a 223 and a 25/06 and that is about it. Many of these old boys have shot many more elk than most of the world of these forums have ever dreamed of.

If you've done things with the 25/06 I'm all ears and would love to hear about it. And I am talking about the topic at hand which of course happens to be elk.

So when you get a chance tell us a story or two about your use of a 25/06 on elk.

Mark D

Oh and by the way I am not what one would call a rabble rouser but I do happen to know a fair bit about this stuff. And usually can tell pretty quick if people have actual experience or book experience. Also if I see bullsnot being written I am not opposed to taking it to conversation.

Mark, maby I'm wrong but to me the difference between you and your friends and someone coming from out of state is that you live in the area. You know it well and have so many advantages over the guy that spends a months pay and two weeks vacation to go on an elk hunt. In my mind that's alot to risk and personally I would rather have a 30-06 or bigger.

A MONTH'S pay?? You guys make alot more than I do. Aren't USA guided hunts $5000+?

Sounds like you need a better job <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Jeff

Last year, I was out deer hunting with a fellow who also had a cow elk permit. We ran across a herd of elk and he decided to take a shot. Range was in the neighborhood of 300 yards. He sat down, aimed, and shot. The elk ran off through the trees. We found his cow maybe seventy-five or eighty yards from where it was hit. Perfect, clean kill.

His rifle?

A Ruger bolt action chambered for .243 Winnie. Premium ammo with Nosler Partition bullets. Quartering away shot. Personally, I wouldn't be scared to use a .25-06 on elk.

However, with that said, my elk rifle is a .35 Whelen. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

There's no DOUBT I need abetter job.

I just bought my first 25-06 a month ago so have no hunting experience with it yet.
The last moose I shot with a .270 was hit 4 times in the chest with 150 Nosler Ptns. If I hadn't heard the last shot strike the animal I would have thought they were all misses. The bull walked off as though unhurt. When found he had only gone about 10 or 15 yards.
I've killed a number of moose with the .270 and up close this caliber works fine. At extended range it starts to poop out. Now I shoot a .338 WM for the "just in case" shots.
I'm not an elk hunter but I would not recommend a 25-06 for someone not living/working close to the hunting area. Just my opinion for whatever its worth.

I forgot to add that the avove mentioned moose was shot at 300 yards.

Ditto

FWIW, Colorado regs say a minimum of .24 caliber (6mm) for elk, 85gr bullet or larger. Anyone know how/why they came up with that?

(Even so, I've used 7mm, .300 Weatherby, and this year will probably be a 30/06.)

Nerf

Personally, I wouldn't hunt elk with a 25-06 for any reason.

To be sure, lots of elk have been taken with 25-06s and the like, but then years ago Vern O'Brian used to build rifles in 17 Mach IV, hunt and kill Alaskan brown bear with them, then write articles about his experiences. Eskimos have hunted polar bears with 222s, W.D.M. Bell used to hunt elephants with a 7mm Mauser, older timers used to hunt grizzlies with 44-40s, etc.

You can find plenty of stories of small calibers being used to kill truckloads of big game -- enough such stories to prove just about any point you'd care to make -- much like BULL-istic arguments that guys come up with to build a case for any cartridge you can think of. Tweek the numbers enough, and you can surely prove your point, whatever it might be!

I don't like hunting big, tough animals such as elk with what I call "cocktail time" cartridges. I like to use cartridges that work well under the worst of conditions, not just under the best of conditions. What works for Texas whitetails and varmints is generally NOT well-suited for elk under all conditions, and after many, many elk seasons, I have yet to find a cooperative elk or a predictable set of elk hunting circumstances. So I like to hit 'em with plenty of gun and plenty of well-constructed bullet.

My personal threshold elk cartridge is the 270 Win. with tough 150 gr. bullets, and I think the 30-06 with strong 180s is a more sensible minimum still. And as you go upt from there, performance gets better yet, assuming good shot placement.

Read J.Y. Jones' great book, "Ask the Elk Guides" for further discussion...........

AD

Yes they will work, No I won't use one unless it is all I had.

I have witnessed/killed elk with 243, 270, 7mmRM, 30-06, 300WM, 338-06, 338WM, 375 H&H. I personally shoot a 338-06. There is no substitute for bullet diameter.

The elk I have witnessed with 338 and up calibers left no doubt that they were hit.
The smaller calibers worked, but I prefer the bigger calibers.

Sorry, no personal experience with the 25's.

FOR ELK,I VASTLY prefer the over thirty caliber cartridges throwing at least a 225 grs and I prefer the 250-270 grain weights in the 338-358 and 375 calibers launched at a minimum of 2300fps. thats a preferance gained after watching close to a hundred dead ELK dressed out over 35 plus years in several states and having hunted in several larger ELK camps (lets say IM an OBSESSED ELK HUNTER)and having looked at the internal damaged carefully. now that being said and having hunted with guys over the years carrying 25/06 and 257 wby rifles on several occasions and having one guys dad carry a 257 roberts for many years I can honestly tell you that the guy BEHIND the rifle has a great deal to do with what works well!
will a 257 roberts, or 25/06 , KILL ELK? HELL YES!, in the hands of an excellent shot its fully up to the task under most conditions if premium bullets are used. and the range is not excessive. but it does not have the same effect on impact, it doesn,t penetrate as deeply from less than ideal angles, and it won,t leave the same wound path thru an ELK.
now why would you put yourself under a handicap, that will limit your range, limit your potential choice of shot angles , when a differant sellection that won,t have those potential problems, is available. like the others Id suggest a 270 win as a more reasonable minimum
I started out with a 30/06, it killed ELK just fine but it had no where near the instant effect on impact the 338-358-375 calibers had, nor did it tend to leave exit wounds on raking angles

I love reading these types of threads but I have a hard time chiming in because I feel that it's pretty hard to draw the line for someone else. There is no doubt that a .257 will kill an elk; just put a well-constructed bullet in the right place and the animal will die. The problem lies in the nature of the hunter himself. How good a shot are you? What are your personal limits on shots that you'd take/pass up? One of my sons is very fussy, and refuses to shoot at animals unless they are within 200 yards and standing broadside. Second, the kid (well, he's 21 now) is a helluva shot, even offhand. With him, I know I'd feel comfortable seeing him shoot at an elk with just about anything greater than a .22 LR. He prefers to use his .270 and sometimes he uses one of our .308's, and they are more than enough for the task, given his abilities and preferences.

Everyone has to draw the line somewhere, and they should base that decision on a knowledge of the terrain they'll hunt and their abilities/habits - and also what makes them feel confident. You've had some input here from some very experienced hunters who have shot a lot more elk than I have (allen, Brad, Mark, etc.) and they have given you some different answers. The thing is, they're all correct!

For my personal use, I draw the line at .27 caliber. I'm an OK shot but nothing special. My limit is 300 yards, and then the rest has to be solid. I'll take a quartering (45 degree) shot but that's the sharpest angle I'll attempt. I'd shoot an elk with a 6mm, .25, or a 6.5 if the opportunity arose, but I wouldn't intentionally choose those calibers if I was heading out after an elk. I prefer to use the .30-06, as that seems to suit me just fine, and I have never had an elk go very far after being hit with one.

I've noticed for the past couple years that you capitalize ELK all the time.

You know guy's the old record book polor bear was killed with a 270 Win and a factory 130 gr broze point.I wouldn't pick a 25 cal myself but with proper shot placement and bullet construction it will work.Just won't have the knock-down power as a larger diameter bullet.The bigger the bullet the more energy is deposited.

Yes, and to lend further insult the 130 bronze- point was fired from a Rem. M760 pump. Now that's my idea of a real polar bear rilfe.

I think the chap's name was Tom Bolack, then govenor of N.Mexico. Proably a Democrat. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

Love those old Outdoor Lifes! Pedro

That's it, I'm putting my 25-06AI up for sale, along with the Roy....................

A gun that was "too small" with a bullet that was "not only standard, but fast expanding-not deep penetrating"


Maybe shot placement DOES work after all.

The smallest cartrdge I have ever killed elk with was the 270WSM but it was only 50 yards away and a bang flop neck shot with 140 grain Failsafe which penciled through the neck. It was a smallish cow too. I had about 3 seconds to get off the shot. My brother shot a larger cow with same cartridge and we had to track it for several miles even though it was terminally wounded in the vitals. The next year (this year) we traded those rifles in for 30-06's. And we will be shooting 180 grain Nosler Partitions, or possibly 168 TXS. I agree that bullet diameter is meaningfull. Personally, I now put my minium at 30-06. But I have absolutely nothing against those that select smaller, less capable cartridges as thats a personal choice we are all entitled to. I feel that it best to be equipped with something that will perform with less than ideal shot positioning with bone breaking capacity. Ideally, my personal favorite is the 338 WM for elk. Every one I have shot with it went nowhere fast. The shock that cartridge provides is devastating even compared to the 30-06. Right now my philosophy is that I only have time to get real competent with one rifle, so I've elected the 30-06 for both deer and elk and anything else I will hunt. I believe in developing intimacy with your rifle no matter what cartridge you select. I will say that in my elk hunting life I have had very few shots like on TV where they wait and wait for just the right moment for that easy broadside shot right behind the shoulder. My experience is that the window of opportunity has always closed very fast and one needs to be prepared for fast decision making and knowing where to place shots at different angles......and having a gun and shooter that can pull it off without a hitch. The only shots I have ever passed on were either too far away (rare) or not enough time in the clear, or lastly elk going straight away with only butt showing

Suppose you have the perfect shot, and make the perfect shot, but in the 1/4 second it takes your bullet to arrive, the elk takes a slight step? You hit 4 inches further back, and nick a leg bone on the way in, richocheting your bullet, with 30% of its weight gone, backwards and missing the lungs. Your elk runs off with no blood trail to become bear fat.

A .338, .45-70, or .300 magnum would have just broken the leg on the way in and dropped the elk in its tracks.

If that was the only caliber I owned, it would be perfect. If it was the largest caliber I owned, it would do an outstanding job (given proper bullet and placement..... always). If I had a larger caliber (with a heavier bullet exhibiting more energy up to 300 yards even though it also has a bit less velocity) that I felt comfortable shooting, I would take that instead.

Sometimes bigger is better (all other factors being maximized).

Good luck on your choice. I have a Sako 25-06 and love it. Everything up to large deer expire, big time. My larger calibers are dedicated to elk/moose and potentially, uninvited "nasty" critters.

Yes, but if you get a shot at a bull elk on a self-guided hunt on public land you'd better take it. Most of the time a shot opportunity lasts only a couple of seconds and getting closer isn't possible. Also if you take a quartering away shot at an elk the bullet will have to penetrate at least two feet through a wet bale of hay to reach the heart/lungs.

I usually hunt with a muzzleloader but when I hunt with a rifle I take a .338WM and shoot 225gr SAFs. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

In Pennsylvania the minimum require caliber for Elk huning is a "caliber of at least .277" with minimum bullet weight of 130gr"

25-06 will work fine.

It's always funny how a simple question can be argued for weeks on end, pages and pages of BS, about something that is of such minor importance when it comes to hunting and killing an elk.

I think I started a thread like this just for [bleep] and giggles a few years ago.

AMEN Greenie!! 721

Greenhorn �

The original poster has never hunted elk and goes by �lubbockdave�. My guess is that for him hunting elk means a lengthy trip and considerable expenses, including out-of-state licenses and possibly even a guide. A .25-06 is definitely NOT what I would recommend in such circumstances � not when so may more appropriate cartridges are available.

Is the choice of cartridge really �of such minor importance when it comes to hunting and killing an elk�? Granted, there are many more important issues in the world at large or even in the limited context of hunting and killing elk � like finding one. But once one is found, it�s nice to have a rifle in hand that will put it on the ground with authority under a wide variety of circumstances.

Many people hunt elk with a .243 Win, but is it really the best cartridge for the task? I think you would agree that it is not and that, for the same reasons, neither is a .25.

Might as well chime in here. A .25-06 is plenty enough as long as you know how to shoot it. I'd stick with a premium bullet i.e. Barnes TSX, Partition, TBBC.

I'm way more concerned with bullet placement.

I also know some Montana boys who hunt elk with .243, .25-06 etc. The argument that someone from out of state that has spent lot's of money, etc should shoot a bigger gun is pretty specious. Most of the locals I hunt with won't take any chances that they'll get another opportunity(excepting trophy hunter types). The vast majority are like me and are looking to fill the freezer with a nice cow or raghorn. I wouldn't turn my nose up at a big bull but usually only see them in districts where it can be very tough to draw.

Anyhow, if a .25-06 is enough gun for these guys I can't see why some one from out of state can't do the same. Just be sure you can hit a dinner plate sized target 9 out of ten times at a given range whether you are on a rest or shooting off hand. If you can't do that then you don't have any business shooting at elk either at that range. Practice, practice, practice.

I wonder if a guide would rather you have a 25-06 with a TSX in it that you shoot very well, with no flenching, or yiou be in camp with a 300 win mag that scares the bejesus out of you?

one of the guys I hunt ELK with occasionally (GEORGE) has and uses a 257 roberts on ELK loaded with SPEER BULLETS 25CAL 115 GR TROPHY BONDED BEAR CLAW BULLETs most of the time, in his BLR.(I know I load his ammo) it KILLS ELK just fine, but it seldom puts them down at the bullet impact point/location.
theres a big differance between having the ability to deliver a MORTAL WOUND that will soon drop the animal and having the ability to both deliver that MORTAL WOUND and almost instantly shut down the games ability to travel.
that differance is due in most cases to the EXTENT and DEPTH of the DAMAGE that results.
yes shot placement is critical, but having the ability to reach the vitals from almost any angle and at reasonable ranges, under almost all conditions and inflicting damage to a larger area tends to give you a significant advantage, that advantage is the result, of physics,physical factors that favor larger/heavier bullets and more energy on the target than a 257 calibers 115-120 grain bullets deliver.
can you kill ELK with a 257 roberts SURE,IVE SEEN it done several times, once ive even seen an ELK drop within a few feet of the bullets impact, but the differance in the internal damage when dressing out those ELK would make me suggest a larger calibers a better chooice in most hunters hands.
like some others have mentioned, a .277 cal/150 grain bullet is a more senceable MINIMUM, and a 30 cal/165 or larger is even better if you can learn to handle the recoil levels.
what this discussion is really about is the DIRECTION ELK run and REACTION of ELK after being hit, I seriously doubt we would be having this discussion if WOUNDED ELK that could still remain mobile tended to STOMP& GORE hunters untill they resembled bloody hamburger, but because they tend to run AWAY and die with no potential danger to the shooter it appears, its just not as important to some hunters that they get a CLEAN/FAST KILL

Still this is funny. Guys like to argue about what just ain't enough gun and how to have a rifle that just drops them in their tracks. Time is better spent breaking in your boots.

And yes, I once killed a bull elk with a 25-06. They go down hard and die fast if you hit them right. They can run off with a poorly placed shot from a magnum also. Try bowhunting, then you'll appreciate the effectiveness of a centerfire like the 25-06.

Elk can run off with a poorly placed shot from a magnum.

After bowhunting a bit, most hunters would appreciate the effectiveness of a centerfire rifle like the 25-06.

Time is better spent breaking in your boots instead of worrying if you have a big enough rifle.

"Elk can run off with a poorly placed shot from a magnum"

VERY TRUE! but they will run just as far or further "with a poorly placed shot" from any LOWER POWER CARTRIDGEs so whats the point!
accuracy in shot placement and a good understanding of the games anatomy are mandatory, to get good results.. I see a much higher percentage of well hit ELK run a short distance when hit with the smaller calibers than I see of those hit with the heavier calibers, and let me point out its NOT just MAGNUMS that hold the advantage here, a quality 225-250 grain bullet from a 338/06 or 35 whelen OR EVEN A 358 WIN thats basically a necked up 308 win, does a remarkably effective job on ELK, as will a 350-420grain 45/70 bullets when placed correctly

Why is it that people who advocate smaller cartridges always make the assumption that people are so scared of bigger calibers that they can�t shoot them well? Or even well enough?

I suspect most guides would prefer a customer show up at elk camp with a rifle they shoot well, and would be happier if that rifle is a .270 or 7mm or .308 or .30-06 or .338-06 or .358 or 35 Whelen or a number of other cartridges than a .25.

My point has never been that a .25 won�t work, just that there are better choices.

Ah crips Hunter, I'm just stirring the pot to see what surfaces.........LOL

The 25's are very decent Elk rounds....300 yards and in.

But, here in the West I prefer a gun that has the ability to reach out a bit farther. I don't want those shots, but I will not turn down a 450 yard shot (a clean, safe shot), on a 7x7 if there is absolutely no way to get closer. I practice shots out to 500 yards, so I feel comfortable hitting vitals on an Elk.

340 Mag, what's up with the ALL CAPS and the bold? You asked (I think you asked .. even though you didn't have a question mark) what's my point..

Like I said. It's not that big of a deal what cartridge somebody hunts with. There's lots more important things to consider than if you gun "is enough gun". But subjects like this are typical on these internet forums and can run pages and pages long with hundreds of opinionated rantings and arguments.

An arrow is less effective than even a 55grain hollow point out of a 223, yet few seem to spend much time arguing that arrows are a poor choice to use when hunting elk. Bow hunters would much rather argue what weight of arrow or type of broadhead is the best..

In any event THIS is my POINT. This discussion is FUNNY, because it's so typical.

I've noticed that most hunting experts who have the strongest opinions on stuff like this, have the FEWEST sets of BIG ELK RACKS on the wall. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />