I recovered this bullet in the offside hide of the cow I took this Fall. Shot was 145 yards on the nose and I put the bullet tight behind the near leg about 1/2 way up the body. It was "IN" the skin on the far side. Upon looking the bullet had dug itself into the skin and sorta looked like a big pimple. I nicked it with my knife and popped it out.

It was the fastest kill on a pure lung shot elk I have witnessed. Coming off recoil she was DOWN. Very cool to see that and after recovering the bullet I understand why. It left a soupy mess in the chest and with nearly .9" expansion if must have been similar to a boat prop running through the animal.

Retained 143 grains..











Off side hole under the hide..



[img]http://i723.photobucket.com/al...-AEF5-F2E34E6CAE74_zpsttjgxesv.jpg[/img]

[img]http://i723.photobucket.com/al...-ADE2-1598145C0FE4_zpsnmrfkqod.jpg[/img]

[img]http://i723.photobucket.com/al...-9819-606418703308_zpsdh2zwavh.jpg[/img]

This bullet chrono'ed at 3020 out of my rifle. Needless to say, I am glad I have a bunch more of them.

Nice. Good to see you using those great ol' BBC's!

I hear you there Guy.. it's good to finally put one into an elk.

Nice Scotty. That hole in the vitals looks like it was made by something bigger than 7mm.

The BBC's at velocity are like a bomb going off in the chest cavity,and I have seen the "soup" many times,as well as the DRT business shooting Bitterroots.

Ferocious expansion upsets lots of vital tissue and the high retained weight maintains the momentum to keep that big frontal area moving through muscle, vitals and bones.They may not penetrate like a Barnes or partition but IME they consistently penetrate far enough. Sometimes they will penetrate a well....depends on velocity.

It's said you can't have high retained weight and instant kills with soft tissue hits but I think that is possibly a mono situation,and not what I have seen from BBC's.

That bullet of yours actually lost more weight than I have seen from a BBC: usually retained weight is over 90%. That core did not slip but I suspect there may have been less than perfect bonding; looks like the lead smeared off. Still, 80% weight retention isn't bad. The bullet had enough muscle for tougher going.

Scotty both of those bullets look solid. Shame they don't make BBCs any more!

Those 175's look looong with a huge bearing surface! Looks like a golf pencil. Lol.

Did a number on that cow for sure.

No doubt fellas. Comparing the wound channel and soup left behind id likely have guessed a 338 or better with a big front end myself. I was very impressed with the bullets and I'm a little loony, usually looking for an exit before much else upon recovering animals.

Bob, it did lose a little more lead than I thought it would but I'll keep running them. I'm pretty sure no elk is going to walk away easily with one in the good stuff.

Would North Forks be the closest equivalent to the BBC's?

Probably yes.

Would agree,

Not as good as the original...

Awesome job Scotty. Good deal. How did your son do with his 300wby?

He didn't hunt this year BSA.. Had school.

Northforks and A-Frames seem like the closest competitors, the bonding both is pretty awesome but I haven't seen anything push out flat like a BBC has. Not saying it matters but it doesn't hurt either.

I remember John Jobson calling them "wicked little bullets", when referring to the .270 130 gr.

Always wanted to try them but never could find any.

Thanks for the write up and pics.

My 225 grain 338 NF weighed 197.1 grains upon recovery this past October 2nd. It's my third bull taken with this bullet and it works like a charm. See link for a pic of the bullet...picture perfect expansion. By the way, congrats on your kill...great job.

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbth...10448/all/NM_elk_success._Not_by_biggest

Damn, that sucks. I was hoping to hear he got one with that 300WBY...

Me too, but he is 18 and trekking it out his way... I'm almost thinking of borrowing it for a little elk hunting myself...

I'll agree about the Northforks though, awesome bullets and usually pretty danged accurate as well. They are on my bench to try.

Gosh, I remember those bullets... they were something else when it came to performance. Had a friend use them all the time with outstanding luck but they just didn't shoot well from my rifle so I stuck with Nosler Partitions. I think it was a fellow by the name Bill Steiger that made them and he was really nice to deal with even to the point of giving me some to try. Thanks for the memory....

May I ask what alternatives there are?

This discussion is in line with a concern of mine, i had a recovery problem with an Accubond (.284 140grain / 3000fps(m) ) lack of soft tissue expansion at distance.

My thoughts include Berger VLD Hunting bullets.
Along with BTs and Accubond LDs.
Thinking urgency, I only have about 350 days or so to get this next experiment right.

Solonek: Not Beretz, but that's interesting....what happened ? What were details of shot and recovery?

The BBC's are not made anymore but a pal used the 150 Swift Scirocco this yearn two elk with very nice results. This bullet came from a bull elk at 460 yards.

Actually, I've found Norma Oryx's and Woodleigh Weldcores closest to the BBC's of any currently made bullet. Have seen the "soup" often with them, and when recovered they look a lot like BBC's.

North Forks are fine bullets, but the frontal expansion is limited by the solid shank, so they tend to penetrate deeper than wider-expanding bonded bullets. They're sort of a BBC/TSX combination.

Salonek - The best alternative is the 175 Partition. I'd love to show you a recovered one but again, this years elk didn't catch one.

Shot was less than 20 yards; the bullet shattered the massive bone below the shoulder blade (as in a 3" section of bone was missing), penetrated the chest cavity, punched the heart, exited the far side chest cavity, punched through the muscled off shoulder and then exited. The lungs and chest were peppered with holes from bone fragments...pretty messy.

And unlike what others have posted about heart shots and/or breaking them down will DRT, this one traveled about 90 yards from the shot with a destroyed heart/lungs and a front leg that looked to have a universal joint installed.

7 Wby Mag, with a 175 Partition @ 3100 fps......

Hard to pass on the 175 Partition..

Yes it is! After a few years of trying some of the new super bullets, I've circled my way back to partitions and fixed power Leopold's....

Dang! Now I sound like an eastern hunter who posts on here a lot

CreekWarrior:

That would be a 175 peeking out of that Mashburn case....

Tease.

Oh yeah, that is sweet!

Trust me, it's been hard to resist doing a Mashburn. It has all the elements of "old school western hunting" in it - Hagel, 300 Winny cases, Page, Mashburn, ultra velocity and laser trajectories!

I have 3 dummy Mashburn cases made up holding various bullets and they tempt me everyday. I shall remain strong and resist!

Thanks to you, one day I'm sure I will fall on that sword and do one....

I hear you. I've been using RWS 300 win to form 7wby brass. I cant help but think why the hell didnt I just do a Mashburn if i'm going to form 300 win brass.

I do like the 7wby tho, its a performer.

Creek Warrior: Honest I just wanted to do one for myself....just to satisfy my curiosity. It was Dober on here who pushed me over the edge. A few folks have done them and some have been happy with them and some have not.

It does not do a whole lot that other 7mm magnums do, like the Weatherby and the Dakota but it does things pretty well;and like Rosco notes you can source anyone's 300 Win Mag brass to make it.

But it was among the first..and good guys used it!

hummm, so it's a 300 WM wannnnabe


Will it be a 300 WM WHEN it grows up ?


Jerry






















seriously, it does look interesting to me.

I'm looking for the "right" rifle to turn into a Mashburn.


I blame BobinNH,he's an instigator!

I like the look of that 175 Woodleigh weldcore. Decent BC too for what it is. Might have to try a couple of those this spring to see how they shoot. Thanks for bringing them up.

Jerry: The Mashburn was originally formed from 300 H&H brass shortened, necked down and blown out...back before there was a 300 Win Mag.

Bob Hagel probably first used the 300 Win Mag case to form Mashburn when it came out in 1963.

Little more on my interest in the subject, if I may?


As mentioned I am all done with Accubonds.
This is the hide evidence of what I believe the lack of soft tissue expansion. 250 - 275 yard'ish shot, perfect broken rib entrance & diagonal lung-shot through a good sized Muley buck.
The skin is bunched up to get both holes in one photo.
The larger 5/16" stick was really to big for the exit hole (some but little expansion).
DRT buck, no questioning I would like to see more exit damage.

Exciting year!
I have a friend that knows someone that has a friend that did not recover a nice bull shot with this same lot of bullets. Shot at more distance then the buck, but still within a respectable distance. Hard ground tracked for a fair distance without a significant blood trail, sadly, lost bull.

Side note: Off-season plinking/training, Accubonds seemed hard to me, this is my first successful season since a switch from BTs.
Nolser is now offering an extended range Accubond, nearly admitting there may be an expansion issue with the regular issue.



http://s94.photobucket.com/user/crowvalleyforge/media/20161103_145748.jpg.html?evt=email_share_media

No, he's an enabler.


Bob, you know I was joking, If I didn't like my 300 WM, I'd be serious about a Mashburn.

Jerry

Whichever he is,Bob needs to cool it.

But,then again,I do have two boxes of 175 gr NP's (one box semi-spitzer and one box spitzer) just waiting to be used on a New Mexico deer or elk.

I have no interest in the "big" 7's and have two 7mm Mauser's,so a Mashburn is right in the middle.

Took this spike at about 75-100 yards in Oregon with another 175 BBC from my Mashburn. Angled from the 5-6th rib back and center punched the offside leg. Little bull ran about 40-50 yards and died.

Insides were blended up pretty serious with about a 1" hole in the hide and 2.5-3" hole in the meat. I was pretty happy with it.

Haven't been able to stretch it out as but elk were taken under 150 yards but it wrecks a lot of stuff, in a good way..

Bob Hagel and all you others really did me well. Love the cartridge, easy to load for and doesn't pound me too much at all. With good bullets it is becoming a favorite.

I passed my current Mashburn to my elk hunting partner after I took the spike.. time to put together another one I guess

Imagine if Roy Weatherby would have had Bitterroots to work with?

True! The faster you push them the better they work.

Lots of Steiger's clients used Bitterroots in 300 and 375 Weatherby cases;other Weatherby cases as well.

I've followed this thread with interest, since I have an old stash of 60 BBC 7mm 175gr. bullets that I want to load in my 7x64 for elk hunting.

I have no specific data for these bullets, and not many or them to experiment with, so, any tips on how they should be loaded? Are they typically loaded with the same powder charge as say a Hornady 175, or a 175 Nosler partition, or are they apt to raise pressures a bit? I will work up from a safe start load in any case, but Your experience and advice appreciated.

Castnblast: What has always worked for me is to work up the load with an equivalent Nosler Partition,watch the chronograph, and back off a grain or so' load a couple of Bitterroots working back up to your Nosler max, and take it from there.

In most of my rifles I have found POI and sight setting so much the same you don't have to rezero. My Mashburn, for example, will group the 160 NPT,162 Amax,and 160 BBC to the same place out to 400-500 yards. They all use the same powder charge.

This might not be true for every rifle but it has worked that way for me over the years.

Don't fall for the group shooting nonsense.....once I get the load established, I will take a single BBC and fire it at 300 yards. In a good rifle, they will print with the other bullet.I don't bother with "groups" when using BBC's. Did enough of that way in the past to know they will shoot along with a Partition.All it does is waste them....I just go hunting.

Ive killed game out to 500 yards with them in 300 and 7mm magnums doing nothing more than that.

Keep in mind that the BBC is a very tough, heavily jacketed bullet designed to withstand high impact velocity and the faster you make them go the better. They will certainly "work" at 7x64 velocity but the expansion will not be as dramatic as if you started them 200-300 fps faster from a 7mm magnum of some type.

But like I said they will still work....probably give deeper penetration but who knows?

Hope this helps.

thanks Bob, exactly the kind of info I was hoping for.

I figure with some luck and quick load work that stash of 60 BBC's should be good for 50 or so animals.....

Good luck.

For sure.

If you wanted to trade for 140 BBCs I know someone that would

Those would be right at home in your Brenneke