Finally. We got some snow up high. There's a place we know with a popular hiking trail. When there's about 10" of snow up there, the hikers/bikers don't use it and the elk move in. We're down to a couple days left in the season but we got snow and the elk were home. I picked this cow out of a herd of 80 to 100. Actually, I was peeking over a rock pile looking at several dozen at 250 to 300 yds trying to decide which one should die. Then this cow walked out from behind a tree at maybe 150 yds. Well, hello. bang. Well, bye.
It's 2 miles in and 1400' up from the trailhead. For 2 guys in their 70's, that can complicate things a bit when getting an elk out. However, I solved that problem 9 years ago. My boys did it again.
I don't know how many more years the old legs will get up there but so far, so good. I figure the llamas added at least 5 years to my hunting life.

Fantastic! Hauling that sheit out on your back will put an end to elk hunting real quick for us guys with bad knees.

Way to go! Hopefully my goats are still carrying my elk into my 70s

Very cool... I'm definitely going to look into this...

now that's the way to move an elk, congrats!

Well planned and executed, Rock Chuck! My back certainly didn't like packing elk out this year. Pack animals may be in my future as well!

well done, sir.

We tried goats and they can work very well but for us, the llamas worked out better. Good goats are easier to get and transport, though. Around here, the llama market has dried up and you can hardly find a decent one. Fencing in goats is much more difficult than llamas, too.
A llama in good shape can carry about 80 lb. That gray in the photo had 90 on him. He's big and strong so we always give him the heavy work. The way we cut them for packing, the hind quarters from a cow usually weigh 35 to 40lb. This time they weighed 45 each. This was a big cow. I have no idea what the total weight would be but the hind quarters give us some comparison.
3 llamas can handle a cow, 4 for a bull. I took 4 because 1 hauled our packs and a rifle.

Great job - love it.

I just watched the Randy Newberg video on the other thread 'how much does an elk weigh.' He said that a big llama can carry 100 to 120lb. That's substantially more than I've heard of before and I've read quite a bit about it. He had a decent bull on 3 llamas. I would have used 4.

And if you watch that video again the owner of the lamas says his are very large, he breeds them for size and ability to pack. Not all animals are created equal. They sure would be nice to have even 2 for packing

A blue heeler can haul tenderloins or about half of a back loin.

Keep on truckin RC. I have smaller mules instead of llamas,but anything you can do to add to the hunting years works.

I have a question here? Do Llamas have the loyalty of a dog? Just curious. I know nothing of them except I was sailing by a farm on a narrow secondary road transporting an inmate to the capital Jefferson City MO. We saw trash out but at this one farm two all white Llamas were at the gate, outside it looking at the trash, not nosing in it. It took a while before the light came on and we decided it was Llamas. Hadn't seen many up close. Rusty

They are distinctly non-doglike. They prefer not to be petted. Mine come when called, only because they associate calling with feeding. I have the same problem as RC: no good llamas available for sale anywhere. My two best packers are 19 and 20...they seem to tire out a little easier but otherwise ok, but not sure how many more seasons they have left. I would like to get some young ones started but can’t find any. I even called they guy in the Newberg videos. He is breeding and producing a lot of good llamas but keeping them all for his own operation.

SaddleSore, my wife keeps bringing up the idea of us getting a couple small mules to use the same way we use llamas: packing only while being led, no riding as I have almost no experiences and she probably not enough. I still love to walk, in fact love covering ground on foot, just don’t like taking multiple round trips with a heavy pack to get camp in and elk out. What do you think?

Llamas make terrible pets. They're no-nonsense work animals. They hate to have their heads and legs touched. If you want to scratch one's ears, you have to get a grip on the halter because he will pull away. They will often come up to 5 or 6' away and that's as close as you can get with out catching them.

I haven't used mules but llamas are MUCH easier to train. Anyone can train and work a llama while mules take some knowledge and experience. A mule can carry a lot more weight, though.

I picked up a really good 2 year old this spring. His pappy is as big as a horse and he has great feet and legs. This guy should top 500lb when he's grown. I have high hopes for him. I paid $200 which is cheap in today's market. He could have got twice that for him but I didn't tell him that.
My other 4 were all freebies that I picked up here and there. I went through a few others that didn't pan out and sold them as pasture potatoes. It took a while to find 4 good ones. You won't find free ones now, though. People have found out what they'll sell for.
My oldest is 12 so I'll likely be too old to hunt before he is.

Most excellent, RC!

RC. Have those llamas ever spit on your face?

Normally llamas only spit at other llamas. However, they have lousy aim and it's easy to get caught in the crossfire. Usually its just saliva but when one gets really PO'd, they'll hack up green stomach contents. It's harmless but smells terrible. Once in a while, they'll spit at a person but they have to be pretty mad. I have 1 gelding that really hates having his feet trimmed. To do it, I strap him to a heavy gate so he can't lie down, then snub his nose up tight so he can't get a bead on me. He'll scream and spit but it all hits the wall and I come out fairly clean. When I'm done, I remove the straps and give him just a little slack on the halter and let him stand there 5 or 10 min to calm down before I let him go.

All my packing experience is with mules and horses. This summer I met an older maybe 60s couple that has two donkeys to do just what you are describing. They were on the small side. Hauled them with a mid size SUV and a 3 horse trailer.



Nice work RC. Especially like the extra llama to carry the pack and rifle.

Before I got my llamas, I was looking for 2 standard donkeys. All I could find was miniatures so I dropped that idea.

That is so awesome. So spectacularly awesome. Good for you. Wow.

Standard donkeys are getting more and more popular around here and the prices are climbing.They do require more knowledge and experience to train/handle them vs mules. My pack mule is 13 hds tall. (52 " at withers). I had two minis ,44", but felt sorry for them packing because they had to swim most small streams. Hard to do with100 #' packs on them

Excellent Rockchuck!

Limited experience with llamas, but they seem to be easier to care for than than other four-legged pack critters.

Grew up with lots of horses and a couple medium pack mules, but when we sold the cattle, and eventually the ranch, horses became an expense I decided I didn't want to deal with anymore.

When packing in, I used a ground line for the llamas. They won't tangle themselves like horses. They'll stand and work their feet until they're untangled.
When we're hunting from the road, I rig up a portable electric fence. The fence has to have 3 hot wires (I use 1/2" ribbon). I have one that will lie on his belly, put his chin on the ground, and limbo himself under it. The fleece is insulated so I have to have a wire low enough to hit his ears as he tries to go under. It's funny to watch but a royal PIA to keep him in.

Very awesome. Thanks for sharing and good eating!

Nice Job RC, you should eat well this year, CONGRATS

Very nice and an interesting discussion as well.

They've proved to be very carefree. In 9 years and as many as 9 llamas at a time, I've only had 2 vet bills other than castrations. Both of those were minor. I give them an annual worming for liver flukes as it's prevalent here and deadly to them and that's about it. Most fences will hold them and shelter needs are minimal. Grass hay only. Alfalfa and grain only makes them fat. They do need a mineral salt block. They drink little water but they do need some of course.
If you want to breed them, they will breed year round so you can plan births for warm weather. 95% of them give birth between 10am and 2pm so there are seldom any late night births to worry about. That in itself is something else. A llama can't stick it's tongue out to lick the baby dry. By giving birth at midday, it will dry off before it gets cold at night. A cow or horse will pull the placenta off the baby. A llama will give birth standing up so the cria (baby) will fall free of the placenta as it drops. Birth happens fast and many small breeders have never seen one. I've only seen 1 and I almost missed that one.
Breeding them is a discussion all it's own. They're quite different from most other farm animals.

Congrats on your hunting adventure. I am 72 and can appreciate your tactics. Interesting post.

Many get sucked in by the "bigger is better" theory...Better is better, I have had 6 or so huge llamas and they were my weakest packers, several were flat out useless. On the other hand I have had some 250 lb firebrands that were just amazing. Their heart is what packs, not their back... Lotta people like that too BTW!

I just got 7 new ones and sold the 4 girls yesterday. The 3 little guys are next summer's project, it should be more manageable than last year when I took on 7, too much of a good thing. They are fascinating critters, and there aint nothing like going into the back country and coming out with a couple elk in one trip with a well mannered string of your own self trained llamas. Much like that first point of a dog you worked yourself from a pup... not a better feeling in the world for an animal guy!

IMG_3912 by .com/photos/66556275@N05/]squirrel2012, on [bleep]

IMG_3904 by .com/photos/66556275@N05/]squirrel2012, on [bleep]

IMG_0212 by .com/photos/66556275@N05/]squirrel2012, on [bleep]

I've never packed elk antlers on my llamas. In so. Idaho the elk hunting is mostly by draw and cow tags are FAR easier to get than bulls. Often the hardest part of a hunt is getting the tag. I've packed a lot of deer antlers, though. They're much easier to tie on a saddle than elk.
I fully agree on the fun of hitting the back country with a string of llamas you've raised and trained yourself. They're so easy to deal with and just plain fun, even if they don't want you scratching their ears like you do with a horse. We always have to allot picture taking time on the trail. Hikers always want to take pictures of them, usually with them by a llama. Sometime question sessions get kind of lengthy. One time we encountered a group of 18 women. By the time they all got their picture taking done, we'd killed a full 1/2 hour.

Llama lover 2, do,you happen to keepyour llamas in Grand County? That location looks familiar (I live near there)...not sure if you want the name of the ranch publicized on the internet though. I’m curious as to where you got your new ones as I am looking for one or two myself.

Those ARE deer antlers rock chuck! I'll take that as a compliment

Antlers are a constant source of problems in the rental market as most people do not want to carry them on their own back, and most have no clue how deadly they can be to the pack animal if packed stupidly. I will post a pic how it is best done, but the best is to carry them on your own back with just the skull plate, points down and back.

IMG_4280 by .com/photos/66556275@N05/]squirrel2012, on [bleep]

145 by .com/photos/66556275@N05/]squirrel2012, on [bleep]

Here is exactly not how to do it, awkward, out of balance no safety stick keeping them up top. And not surprisingly look how pissed Lannica is, not a happy llama.


DSC04834 by .com/photos/66556275@N05/]squirrel2012, on [bleep]

Yes, as I'm in the business of llamas publicity is no issue. Now getting google maps to recognize this address is the hard part, especially for those young bucks that only follow their phone It usually dumps them up around Wolford somewhere in the empty sage flats.

Getting up there as well. Love going up, as it's an easy pull coming down with a little snow. Back packs and full quarters are starting to get a bit wearing though.

Good going there.

Getting swarmed by chicks comes with the territory, I have noticed a large drop in my trailside sex appeal if no llamas are with me. They are better than a puppy. I did a llama wedding last June , my first. I was to hide behind the "how to ride a chairlift and not die" sign and upon the brides arrival step out and surprise her... I did, Landa went for the offering treat, the bridal bouquet, she clutched it to her barely covered chest and he went down in between to claim his prize, motorboated her right there in front of everybody... all i could do was laugh, a jealous laugh as she was a 9.9...

My lil motor boat wearing a tracking collar

IMG_4077 by .com/photos/66556275@N05/]squirrel2012, on [bleep]

I have one that's berserk llama. I put up with his nonsense because he's a good packer. He's NOT shy and aloof. He goes right in and nuzzles necks and faces. He's popular with the girls who love that sort of thing from a large animal and who don't know that he's not normal. I keep him in the lead, both to control him and for PR purposes. When someone wants to pet a llama, he's always good for it. At home in the pasture, though, I never take my eyes off of him. He gets too 'friendly' and could knock me flat if I don't get after him.
He has short ears. The only other time I've seen that is his sister.

Do you turn yours loose? I've never trusted mine enough to try it.

So would you be at the Skylark ranch or thereabouts? I’m over on 125, by the C Lazy U

No I took it off of a dead deer and posed it on him as a joke, its property of CPW.

Yes Riverdog, of course if I OWNED the Skylark I wouldn't have to charge for my pack llamas... stop by and meet the boys sometime winters are pretty slow around here.

Good planning on your part to be able to continue to elk hunt, Congratulations.

Not sure if it would be worth the trip but NE Texas has a world of mules and donkeys. Don't know if any could be bought or the price but nearly every small farm or ranch has 2-3 on the property. I have no idea why because a lot of the properties I see them on have no visible need for them and I don't think they make good pets.

Mama elk is hanging in the cooler for another week or more but I whacked off a piece of loin for bbq chops. Tasty and tender. This is going to be one of the good ones.
Conditions vary greatly but if I can, I like to gut and skin them then leave them lie overnight if possible. I'll come up the next morning with the llamas and dice them up before the pack out. That gives them plenty of time to go in and out of rigor mortis which makes for more tender meat. Boning before they cool and go into rigor can make them much tougher. I've learned that the hard way. I've had some really tough meat when I bone them hot.
Bear and wolf problems abound but so far I've been lucky.

Agree 100% ,

Yes.

I will use tie down straps to elevate the quarters in trees.

I also leave whatever clothes I can spare, especially hats, surrounding the quarters for scent.

I leave the carcass and guts away from the good meat, so they can get something. In bear country I keep everything inside the scent zone.

Some guys will pee around the carcass. However, stand hunters often say they can pee off the stand it won't affect the deer at all so I don't know if helps. I guess it can't hurt anyway. You have to pee somewhere so around the elk is as good a place as any.

I've always had bears more interested in the gut pile, but one time a bear stole a hanging quarter from a tree. There was snow at the time so it was easy to follow the tracks of the thief. I found the quarter after a couple hundred yards. The meat had a perfect dental impression of the bears mouth and teeth pressed/melted into the frozen quarter. Could have made a bear denture from it.

What is the cost to rent Llama's for a pack trip?

I killed a nice bull on my 2017 hunt, out in a high Colorado alpine basin, far from any trees. I took the quarters off, intending to come back in the morning with my llamas. Wife sez "I've seen some bear sign, you better move those quarters down so you can hang them. I say naw, no need, they wont come and if they do they'll go for the gut pile. Wrong. At least two bears came in, didn't touch the gut pile, and dragged one front and one hind two hundred yards, ate an estimated 30 pounds of meat, and tore hell out of two of my new TAG bags. Yep, lesson learned.

I get $50/day or $300/ten days Most are higher, some much so.

I have heard the same thing about urine.

But human head hair holds a lot of scent...that's why I leave hats.

Excellent!!

Way to go fella, good on the elk and making it happen.

Just saw this. Congratulations Rock Chuck. I never knew. Very informative thank you.