Guys,

Off a bench my xbolt will easily hold just under an inch. My buddy and I did some shooting from field positions (off pack and sitting off tripod) yesterday, prepping for Idaho elk. Most of our shooting was at 300 with a little bit of wind. We were shooting at a 5 inch gong and probably hitting 1/3 times. Our misses appeared to be close misses.

I was pretty peeved at myself at first but then considered a 1 inch gun would have a 3 inch group at that distance, leaving only 2 inches of wiggle.

At that distance, how close are we? We are accustomed to shooting 150 pound whitetails.

Distance changes things, significantly. In theory you are correct, a 1MOA gun at 100 should be 3" (actually 3.15") at 300 yards. Wind, in theory, isn't a huge factor at 300 yards. At 10 miles per hour, at 10,000', it's only pushing it over 3" with a good B.C. bullet. Make sure you are resting the forearm of your rifle on the pack, not the barrel. Be mentally aware of your cheek weld, breathing, trigger pull and follow through while on the pack/pod. I am guilty of this myself, you get used to a routine on the bench, but then move to the pack or sitting or kneeling or any other position and you don't think about your body's position on the rifle. Take a few shots at 100 yards off the pack and see what your group is, if it's sub MOA, your basics are good and you know the larger group issue at 300 yards is likely due to environmental. If the group at 100 yards isn't tight, then your basics need work when using the pack.

I like to know I can hit 6" consistently in a field situation (first shot, cold bore). My limit is about 450 yards in calm conditions and stationary animal. That's almost half a second flight time with my 300WM. An elk walking 3mph is moving 4.5feet a second, so have to figure another 2.25' lead, not including wind. Add in some thermals in a valley, variable wind, and it gets real tricky fast.

A 5" gong at 300 yards, in windy conditions, from field positions, is a challenging target. I like that you're out, practicing from field positions.

Keep on practicing, and you're going to be fine. Elk have a bigger kill zone than your 150 pound whitetail. A target I often use for pre-season practice with my hunting rifles is a standard 9" paper plate. When I can keep all my shots from my hunting rifles & field positions, I know that I'm good to go. It's worked for years. Whatever distance I can do that at, is about my max range with that rifle, in the field.

Normally I do a lot of practice at 300 yards, and that's worked just dandy. I've taken a few shots at game beyond 300, but not many.

Regards, Guy

Good advice thus far.

Like Mountain10mm said, shoot from field positions at 100, get a baseline, then add range. I’ll add four things:
1. Mimic the effects of altitude. Right now you’re less than 400‘ above sea level. Idaho is far higher and the thin air at altitude affects your heart rate and breathing. Add a 50-yard wind sprint, then flop down behind your rifle and try to get good hits. This won’t acclimate you to altitude but it can show how a pounding heart and screaming lungs affect your performance.
2. Shoot paper. What looks like “close miss” at 300 in the spotting scope can be something entirely different on paper. Misses teach more than hits and measuring them precisely is a huge opportunity to learn how you and your rifle perform in the real world. It’s humbling, though…
3. Practice offhand at 50-100 yards. You may see a good bull a lot closer than you’re expecting.
4. Dry fire is a big help in all of this.

All of this said, the vital zone of an elk is a lot bigger than the vital zone of a deer.


Okie John

Great advice. As much as I practice long shots and am confident with them, I've never shot at an elk past 100. And none of those shots allowed for a rest other thank kneeling or sitting position. Just the way it worked out for me, others in our party have shot at elk out to 400yards.

I do intend to practice my offhand shooting out to 100 yds, great reminder.

Ok, I feel a bit better now. Also, shots at 200 on the gong were nearly 100 percent. I think my biggest issue was keeping on target once I started applying pressure to the trigger, At 300 I had about a 3 inch wiggle on target through the trigger squeeze.

I probably should set up at 100 and get a baseline, good idea.

Do not feel frustrated. Look at this as a learning situation. I applaud you for your effort.. Most just shoot off a rest & then assume long range hit's in the field are a given. Practice, practice. Not all shots at elk are long range. The vast majority I have taken over the years have been under 200yds .. Have also taken several elk at under & well under 100yds. Practice those off hand shots. Being able to make accurate off hand shots can save a hunt. Be prepared to shoot thru little openings in willow & aspen thickets. Sometimes you will only be able to see the top half or less of an elk's back on the opposite side of a rise. It goes on & on.

Please keep in mind that an Elk's heart is about 5" long. Missing it by 2-3 inches left, high or right will still get you your elk.

I am not down playing marksmanship. I am openly and contently harping on it and on hunting skills. But many if not most people obsess too much about factors that are slightly important and omit those that are vital.

Can you shoot prone from your belly? If sitting which is fine, are you balancing your elbow on your knee/thigh for elbow stability?

Good on you practicing field shots. THE biggest thing overlooked when hunting, especially when out west.

Elk have big kill zones easily double your 5" plate....practice and you'll dictate your own range, which is usually closer than when the bullet runs out of effectiveness...

buy a 27 inch swivel Harris bi-pod,learn to use it sitting and laying on the ground. you will do just fine good luck,Pete53

My approach has always been to work on my rifle and handloads until I get 3/4 to 1/2 groups off of the 100 yard benchrest. I want as much margin for human error as I can get. Then I practice off-hand shooting until I know the distance I can keep all of my shots inside the kill zone. That is my maximum distance for that rifle in ideal conditions.
I shoot a lot of competitive off-hand matches with a flintlock rifle. Believe me when I tell you, if you can shoot a flintlock well, you can shoot anything well.

Your gtg go kill some elk...

Yes, laying on my belly, rifle over the pack barrel not touching anything. When sitting I try to drive my elbow into thigh, not the knee. Just bought another box of 180 interbonds to load up some more fun! Initially I had hopped to be confident out to 400 off my pack, now I'm thinking 350. I 'm also aware (hope) that more than likely my shot will be under 200 yards

Thanks for keeping it real, and admitting your shooting skills.
Field position is different than bench and 6” is half the size of kill zone. So I’d say your fine if you’re barely missing.
Obviously now you know not to try 500 yard shots.

Elk have a vital the size of a garbage can lid. If you are not sure, then get closer.

Focus on the basics: breathing, sight-alignment, trigger squeeze. In my experience, and in that of many, many others, elk fever is far worse than buck fever. Practice helps, but remember the basics when you practice, and when you see the elk. Schitt gets crazy, even for experienced guys. Your gun and shooting are fine. Elk are huge.

I use an old scoped Maqrlin bolt rifle in .22 Magnum for 100yd, offhand practice. 50-100 rounds a week for a month or so before you go. Trigger time is always good. then shoot 20rds off hand with your big rifle at a 6" target at 100.

"Acceptable accuracy" depends on multiple conditions. I prefer MOA or better for my bolts, 1.5 or better for my levers. Wind adds a whole new layer of complexity where higher velocity and B.C. are your friends.

Well, on a bench I am consistently under MOA. I was referencing accuracy in actual field positions.

Regardless of field or bench, you can never exceed the inherent accuracy of a particular rifle/load combination. I can often come pretty close to (my) bench accuracy in the field when I have time to prepare for the shot and have a solid rest (my pack, a rock, stump, tripod, etc.).

Other than that, I'd say "acceptable" accuracy in the field depends on the results of the shot in question.

1.5 inch at 100 keeps you in 6 inches at 300. More than sufficient for deer. elk, hogs and coyotes. Even works on dall sheep and caribou. If one wants. .50, .75, or 1in at 100, good for them. Just not that important to me because I don't take long shots.

You need to be able to hit a paper plate.

Sounds easy, right? Add some wind, field rest, heavy heart beat, excitement and it gets very hard.

This is why 6” groups in practice simulating field conditions are a nice judge of max distance.

You can get good enough at shooting that a <1 moa, reasonable weight gun, with good bc bullets becomes probable to hit that plate with at 300-500 yd shots.

Shooting is a mental and physical game - however if your head isn’t straight you can’t shoot well.

So 1) your accuracy at distance to be proficient must = or be smaller than your target size (target being what is your kill zone on your target).

Some people never get past that question which astounds me, on a deer one who shoots for vital zone “center of mass” has a big target so the pie plate thing works, being able to hit something smaller just makes you more confident.

Picking a smaller target say a squirrel - that is a heck of a small plate now isn’t it ?