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Posted By: johnw Short (<16") AR barrels? - 06/25/20
Are AR barrels shorter than 16" all put on pistol receivers?

Or is, say, a 14.5" barrel on a rifle lower considered a class 3 firearm?

Or would a 14.5" barrel with a flash hider permanently mounted to extend the length to 16" or so make it legal for general ownership?
Posted By: jeeper Re: Short (<16") AR barrels? - 06/25/20


14.5 pinned and welded to 16 is legal rifle.
I have one that is permanently done that way.

It is a XM177 clone from the 70's,has the long flash hider on it.
Posted By: Lennie Re: Short (<16") AR barrels? - 06/25/20
Pay the 200.00 fee, license a stripped lower as an SBR and any barrel length/caliber is good to go.
Posted By: UPhiker Re: Short (<16") AR barrels? - 06/25/20
As long as it has never been assembled as a rifle, there is no such thing as a rifle or pistol lower. All lowers are sold as "other" on a 4473. It is not until they are assembled that they become either a long gun or handgun. One first assembled as a handgun can always be converted to a rifle, but the opposite is not allowed.
Posted By: johnw Re: Short (<16") AR barrels? - 06/25/20
All good information. Thanks guys...
Posted By: johnw Re: Short (<16") AR barrels? - 06/25/20
UPHiker,

Would that also be true if the lower shipped from the factory with a rifle buttstock?
Originally Posted by johnw
UPHiker,

Would that also be true if the lower shipped from the factory with a rifle buttstock?


Probably not. There could potentially be legal arguments made if the first time it was fully assembled it was as a pistol, but I wouldn't want to pay what it would cost to make that argument in court.

If it shipped with a rifle buttstock attached, it's best to treat it as a rifle. IMO pinned and welded muzzle devices are a pain in the neck, so I'd stick to a 16" or longer barrel.
Posted By: Yondering Re: Short (<16") AR barrels? - 06/25/20
Originally Posted by antelope_sniper
Originally Posted by johnw
UPHiker,

Would that also be true if the lower shipped from the factory with a rifle buttstock?


Probably not. There could potentially be legal arguments made if the first time it was fully assembled it was as a pistol, but I wouldn't want to pay what it would cost to make that argument in court.

If it shipped with a rifle buttstock attached, it's best to treat it as a rifle. IMO pinned and welded muzzle devices are a pain in the neck, so I'd stick to a 16" or longer barrel.


Nope. If it transferred as "other", as the dealer should have, then it is neither rifle or pistol. If it was just a lower, regardless of stock or brace, it didn't have a barrel length and is not a rifle. IF the dealer transferred it as a "rifle", then you have to treat it as a rifle only, but otherwise not.
Originally Posted by Yondering
Originally Posted by antelope_sniper
Originally Posted by johnw
UPHiker,

Would that also be true if the lower shipped from the factory with a rifle buttstock?


Probably not. There could potentially be legal arguments made if the first time it was fully assembled it was as a pistol, but I wouldn't want to pay what it would cost to make that argument in court.

If it shipped with a rifle buttstock attached, it's best to treat it as a rifle. IMO pinned and welded muzzle devices are a pain in the neck, so I'd stick to a 16" or longer barrel.


Nope. If it transferred as "other", as the dealer should have, then it is neither rifle or pistol. If it was just a lower, regardless of stock or brace, it didn't have a barrel length and is not a rifle. IF the dealer transferred it as a "rifle", then you have to treat it as a rifle only, but otherwise not.


And what percentage of dealers would get that right?

But yes, technically, you are correct.
Posted By: UPhiker Re: Short (<16") AR barrels? - 06/26/20
Originally Posted by antelope_sniper
Originally Posted by Yondering
Originally Posted by antelope_sniper
Originally Posted by johnw
UPHiker,

Would that also be true if the lower shipped from the factory with a rifle buttstock?


Probably not. There could potentially be legal arguments made if the first time it was fully assembled it was as a pistol, but I wouldn't want to pay what it would cost to make that argument in court.

If it shipped with a rifle buttstock attached, it's best to treat it as a rifle. IMO pinned and welded muzzle devices are a pain in the neck, so I'd stick to a 16" or longer barrel.


Nope. If it transferred as "other", as the dealer should have, then it is neither rifle or pistol. If it was just a lower, regardless of stock or brace, it didn't have a barrel length and is not a rifle. IF the dealer transferred it as a "rifle", then you have to treat it as a rifle only, but otherwise not.


And what percentage of dealers would get that right?

But yes, technically, you are correct.
Any that knows what he's doing. The ATF would "correct" him after their first audit of him. Even if the dealer transferred it as a "long gun", it isn't and doesn't have to be treated that way by the purchaser.
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