Don't think I'm beating a dead horse yet...

Real world threats with a videoed outcome. Real time modern lessons.

If I've seen the vids correctly, the Kenosha Kid, KK, had his 16" barrel grabbed &/or pushed away at least twice.

Would an SBR or AR pistol been more effective, or while the KK was effective enough, would a shorter front end have helped ??

Just a conversation on the matter.

First, excluding a total societal collapse, I'd never take anything requiring a stamp any where near a potentially sporty event. To the greatest extent reasonably possible, I choose to avoid places that could become "interesting".

But if I expected conditions such as those and could choose an AR type friend to accompany me:

11.5" braced pistol.
Very bright light, probably 1000 lumens.
LPVO on top.
Offset Micro red dot.
Very good modern 2 point sling.

Ammo, probably coupled mags, one with 60gr NBT and the second with 64gr BSB.

Yeah, the SBR route throws a monkey wrench into the equation.

Your later criteria is very close to my criteria & I don't even know a couple of the acronyms.

Armchair quarterbacking is better than ignoring the happening IMO.

More effective? Two dead, one severely wounded, minimal amount of shots fired, no bystanders hit. Seems pretty damn effective to me.

At the distance he was at to the attacker, I don't think 4-5" barrel difference would matter, so far as someone grabbing the barrel................but the shorter, lighter barrel would make the gun easier to move around, so it might help in that sense so as to move the barrel away easier/faster.

But not a night & day deal maker / deal breaker, IMO.

MM

LPVO = Low Power Variable Optic.

NBT = Nosler Ballistic Tip

BSB = Nosler Bonded Solid Base.

Pretty damn effective for sure, but WTF is wrong with the word "more". Duplicating might be OK I guess, but ain't bettering preferred.

Goddammit! does this have get controversial within 5 post? Isn't better like, better? Or something?

I vote for more better.

I wish he'd a popped a couple more and center punched elbow boy, so there is that to improve on.

My new Shorty to the stable is a Geissele Super duty, 11.5 inch pistol.Kahles 1x6 sitting in a Scalar works mount. Have a sure fire scout which is temporary. I only have a couple hundred rounds out of this set up but I did get it out to 600 yards hitting an 18 inch steel plate off of the bench With IMI M193 consecutively. It’s a dynamite set up, Very happy with it I would have no issues taking it out with The limited amount of time I have on it.

Bingo! KK had a line on the tall guy that drip kicked him as well. Don't know if he shot, or if he did & the shot went wild. Weapon length not a big issue on that encounter, IMO.

KK did a good job, no doubt about it, but I feel, or my eyes & the vids tell me he was on the ragged edge of loosing his weapon or having it disabled just due to what was sticking out there for someone to grab.

I bought an AR pistol last fall more or less as a novelty, a fun gun. Now, after watching many vids several times over of that young man sitting on his ass and still saving his life, the novelty pistol I have seems to have a better purchase than I thought. Thinking it's more useful than I thought.

Shorter? I've been thinking a bayonet added could be useful.

I think KK let em get too close.

Firearm retention means appreciating closing distance. Bayonet, yes. Running in the street, 16" to 20" fine.

11.5s are nice if you add a suppressor.

Lots of good info on retention of long guns in cqb available on You Tube. I like compact rifles but a 14.5 w/ fixed brake/flash hider works for me.


mike r

Yep 14.5 is my favorite right now too.

Spent the afternoon weaving cordura straps in & out of buckles, d-rings, swivels, etc. Had a beer & thought if The KK had a bayonet, the punks sure as hell wouldn't have been grabbing his barrel then. A thing to ponder.

A 14.5 is a good length I think for a shorty rifle. But when you have too add pinned & welded? I'd just as soon run a 16 w/a thread protector. maybe I haven't learned the benefits of the flash suppressor.

Whatever you do will be on camera and no flash hider will ensure you get the attention of every camera out there.

Yep, a suppressor works best but a good flash hider makes a huge difference in light signature. The darker it is the more effective the result. Many years ago the AKs had a huge flash and made target acquisition in the deep and dark much easier.


mike r

Obvious that I don't know all the ins & outs of AR attributes. Had 'em non stop for 30 years, & played with'em 45 years ago when they were kinda scarce for a country boy. But taking serious interest now, that they seem to be ever more important.