Ar-15 1-7 twist and shooting any weight from 50 grain to 77 bullets, although generally heading towards the 69/77 grainers.

I'm not asking at all about whats available, but what you would grab when it is available.

I've had the best accuracy with Reloder 15 and the heavies so far, but it isn't super fast. Lost track of everything I've tried, but Reloder 15 was the clear winner for accuracy in my particular barrel.

AR Comp or W 748... lately...

that changes at times...

about anything works in a 223...

TAC for lighter bullets up to 60gr. RL-15 for anything heavier.

H335

TAC for 50-77’s.

BenchMark

Hadn't considered '15, Thanks.

Have yet to run into any Comp, just don't see it around here often.

My search for Comp is somewhat responsible for this thread.

yes, especially with the 50/55's,

several lbs of that here.

This is a stand by for me.

Shooters world AR-plus has a lot of potential as a do it all AR powder, but I'm still playing with it.

Without a doubt AR Comp. I use it in .223 and my AR10 308w... But for 69-77gr pills, you are likely not going to find anything better... RL15 works well too, but doesn't meter as well and is not nearly as accurate... I use it when I have to..

Never tried it in an ar, but Benchmark is for sure a great powder with the light bullets in a bolt gun. Other good ones with light bullets are H322 and Reloder 10x.

I use all the powders mentioned in AR loads with the exception of H 335...

I won't touch that powder... won't get into why and don't knock anyone who uses it...

but a couple of bad experiences with it and I have a whole hell of a lot of other options...

but of all the powders mentioned otherwise, that is proof of what I say.. about anything works in a 223...

Like has been said, lots to choose from. I use TAC behind the lighter bullets and recently I've been using Alliant Varmint behind the 55s. It's showing some good results.

Surprisingly, the most accurate powder I've used for 50-55 grainers has been IMR-4198. A little velocity is lost, but damn it puts the bullets close together.

I have some 77 grain SMK loads using Norma 203B (RL15) I want to try soon. H322 has been so-so and CFE223 is a little better, but I feel like something's still on the table.

H322 has done very good with 69 grain SMK loads.

I use Benchmark, 748, WC846, H335, in 50-55 grain bullets. In heavier bullets, 60-77, I use TAC and Varget mostly. I have noticed that each one of my 223's seems to like something different. A powder that works good in one rifle, usually does not work in another. The exception has been Varget, as it works well in several of my rifles.

I haven’t loaded anything other than 60 and 65 grain bullets in .223 for years, and haven’t used anything other than Varget in.223 for years. Not saying nothing is better, just it works for me and I’m kind of beyond the age of experimentation. Also it works well for my purposes in .308 and .45-70.

All I shoot is 50 & 55's & Benchmark has been a good one for me.

I've never tried it, but from looking at various loads for the heavier bullets, I'd sure try CFE223. It's usually the velocity king according to the Hodgdon manual.

No varget?

Thats all I use

On my powder shelves I have H4198, H335, Shooters World Match, AA 2015, AA 2230, IMR 4320, CFE 223.
I don't want to give any of them up and I keep the shelves full. They cover everything from 40gr V-max to any 69gr Match.

You don't need that many to cover that range.

MM

Not to laugh, but its funny how many guys actually believe they do. Those are all good powders and they work, but far too many. I take the KISS approach. Give me one that drops out of the powder measure like water, is sub moa accurate for many bullet weights and other cartridges (thats a bonus). When you find a powder that you can drop your charges in and load 300/hour and still maintain sub moa 10 shot group accuracy, you know you have a good one.

Varget.

Varget is a great powder & almost boringly very accurate.

But sorry, it's time has come & gone in the 223/5.56.....................it's considerably slower, velocity wise, than is attainable with other powders & is horrible through a powder feed, especially in a relatively small case where variations matter more than in a large case.

Maybe for the competitor who hand weighs or trickles his charges & wants/need the very last drip of accuracy, but for everyday Joe for plinking & general shooting, even in SPR type rifles, there are numerous much better choices today.

MM

In the middle of 2 lbs of it , Can't fault it, but something tells me it's not the 'one'........

I have the same feeling about CFE223...........it has never been the most accurate powder in any rifle I have tried it in
don't care if it flows good through a measure if it is not accurate

When Varget came out in 1995 I bought in big time..........enough to last me until just a couple years ago.
The original Varget was absolutely the do all anything in 223/5.56
When I ran out a couple years ago I bought a new 8#'er and found out quickly it is not the same powder. The original was not the "EXTREME" that is on the packaging of today.
to find other powders that work I use VVN133 or Benchmark for 55grainers , for heavies IMR8208XBR or RL15

My favorite powder for 69 - 77 gr. bullets is H4895, Varget is a close second. Double base powders that "pour like water" have never measured up accuracy wise to single base powders, for me, when shooting past 300 yards.

Here is a series of real world tests on a variety of powders in the 5.56 (Wylde) attempting to duplicate the factory loading of MK 262 as produced by Black Hill, 77 gr SMK.

When you open the link, the entire series, by test episode, will come up on the right.

In almost every case, his results have pretty closely mirrored my results with the same combinations, so that's why I say it real world.

MM

Duplicating MK 262 from Black Hills

Your link isn't working for me.

Same here.

OK, thanks.......................I edited it & it works now when I test it so try again.

MM

It works ok in a 223 with 62 and heavier bullets, but for me it's one of the best for my 17 rem besides 4320.
2 powders that I really like for 223 & 308 is AA2230 & Shooters world match. Other than that
now a days you get what you can get and try to make it work.

Has anyone tried Accurate 2460 with heavies in an ar?

No but looks like it'll work.

TAC or AA2230. CFE223 sucks - the most temperature sensitive powder I've ever used.

I don't push it or get anal about it, but if I can load a good load that offers velocity & accuracy, & it does it with fewer grains I consider it. I don't go with he fastest burning & least used. But, if a powder gives me what I want in a high usage shell like this & it needs 24 grains, & another powder needs 28, the 24 grain load might get the nod in these trying times. It adds up with high round counts & trying to keep shooting with what ya got .

I think ammo companies look at the things like this just for profit. Nowadays I think about it sometimes just for my sustainable inventory.

I’m not nearly as up to speed on powders for .223 as you guys, I just like varget mainly because I can use it in a half dozen other cartridges and, 26 gr under a hornady 55 shoots well enough for my needs from 3 ar’s.

8208xbr I used to use benchmark because I loaded a lot of 50-55g but I've moved to more 75g bullets and found 8208xbr to be like a bit slower benchmark. Everything I like about benchmark but 8208xbr works a bit better with heavier bullets. The tiny extruded kernels meter almost as good as ball. It's clean burning, consistent, and temp stable.

Bb

I agree CFE223 sucks...........but never really found it temp sensitive, just not very accurate.

RL-15 and Varget, only load 50 and 55 gr bullets.

This ... exactly

MM, thanks for the link, but there's more video there than I could watch in 2 weekends,

What are you trying to say, whats your go to load?

This. I've got a lot of RE15 because it works well in several calibers I reload for.

AA2230 and AA2460 are my 2 favorites but both are hard to come by.

kwg

What weight of bullet are you using with 2460? Load data?

Okay. I shoot bullets from 55-77 gr. exclusively in my guns.

After testing & working with a lot of different powders, I have settled on 2 primary powders that do very well across that bullet range, giving very good accuracy with all & as much velocity as can safely be wrung out of a 5.56 (223 Wylde) with an 18 or 16" barrel.

Those 2 are IMR-8208XBR & Alliant AR-Comp. They are both very small grained extruded powders that feed & meter very, very consistently.

With AR-Comp & the 77 gr. SMK, Nosler CC or Nosler RDF I am loading 23.0 gr.

With 8208 & those same bullets, I am loading 23.5 gr.

In all cases, I am loading to 5.56 pressure level, as best as I can determine & comparable to factory MK 262 & IMI Razorcore, both are loaded with 77 gr SMK.

Both powders provide a smooth recoil impulse as compared to say, H4895, which to me is significantly sharper & quicker, which I do not like.............but I will use H4895 in a bolt gun, not in an AR if I have a choice.

If I were only going to load 77g. bullets, Alliant 2000-MR would probably be my single choice; it feeds even better than AR-Comp or 8208, it's very accurate & will give just a little more velocity, especially in an 18 or 20" barrel than the others. But it also takes more if it to get there.

If I were only loading bullets of 60 gr or lighter, then I would choose VV-133............it's the darling of BR shooters with light bullets, & for a very good reason. Meters well, provides very low SD's & is more accurate than virtually anything else with light bullets. I also use it in bolt guns.

As to the old standbys of RL-15 & Varget, I can't think of a good reason to use them as the others are about as accurate, meter much better & give higher velocities..............Varget probably get's the nod as being THE absolute most accurate of the bunch with heavy bullets, if you want to accept 75-100 FPS lower velocities, & poor powder feeding with corresponding more variability round to round, & except under bench shooting conditions, the accuracy difference isn't enough to talk about, IMO.

As for CFE-223, which has come up here several times, it feeds well but I have not found it to consistently equal the accuracy of any of the powders mentioned above, nor is it really any better velocity wise, plus it takes over 25 gr to get to top velocity. I have not tested it for tempt stability.

Everyone has their own reasons for what they pick & these are just mine.

Given today's supply situation any of a dozen good powders will all work acceptably, some just do some things a little better than others.

YMMV

MM

Lots of info there, Thanks.

Dang mm. I wish I would have known that about mr2000 last weekend. I was at a gunshop that had it for$29.99/pound and my buddy asked what its good for. I never tried it, so I told him I didnt know.

Yeah, I feel your pain........................LOL

MM

PP MR2000 is also very good in a 308. I get great speed and accuracy with it running 175g or 178g bthp bullets in my 16" ar10. It also meters well enough that I've loaded 308 on my progressive.

Bb

It actually sounds very similar to AR Comp (which is my favorite). I also run AR Comp in my 308 win loads with 168-178gr matchgrade bullets. It makes sense that PP MR2000 would also work in the 308. Now that I know its good powder, I'll likely not see it again for a while. Good informative thread..

2000-MR is quite a bit slower than AR-Comp; slower than Varget & RL-15 too.

AR-Comp & 8208 are very close in burn rate & performance.

MM

Burn Rate Chart

I use LVR in my 5.56 ARs with 77 TMKs. I have messed with others a little but 25/25.5 grains has been pretty accurate and fairly quick in all of my rifles.

Scotty, how does LVR meter through a powder measure?

Like water. It’s a ball powder. I run it on my Dillon mainly. It’s so consistent it’s hardly ever checked.

LVR, Leverevolution I'm assuming?

to be honest, the name freaks me out, makes no sense.

There’s no Lever data that I’m aware of for 223. But it’s about all I use in mine and my 222mag. Good accuracy and speed, meters like water, and until recently it was usually available when everything else was gone. I primarily shoot 77s in the 223 and 55s in the 222 Mag.

I shoot 55gr TSX and Lehighs, 62gr TSX and 64gr Nosler Bondeds with CFE-223, don't shoot matches or for groups, max speed that's plenty good enough for minute of felon.

CFE-223 is also the powder used in 16 inch 7.62 REPR's, 150gr E-Tips at 2715 and moa to 200 yards is cake.

A few fellas have been using it and man, I like the stuff and like you said, it’s available mostly.

I wouldn't waste time with it. not the fastest. not the most accurate in the end and temp sensitive. Especially with TAC around.

TAC was nowhere close to as accurate for me as RE-15, so I guess my mileage varied.

Flip flop then. Tac got more speed and better accuracy when testing about 10-12 guns for a certain team match. IE all guns, various makes, barrels etc.. had to shoot the same ammo out of the same bucket so to speak from 600 back to 300.

That said a certain top level AR smith only shot RL15 and probably still on that kick I suspect. I just never got out of it what he got out of it at the time.

H335. My current gun loves it. I've had 2 others, nominally identical, and they both varied a lot more in their preferences, but this gun wants a max load of H335 with whatever bullet I've chosen from the 55 grain Hornady flat base to the 70 grain Accubond .. with a few 77s thrown in though they are really not my focus. Mine is a varmint, hunting, and defense gun, so my focus is on accuracy with hunting bullets of one sort or another.

Tom

I shoot 62 grain bullets, Varget and CFE 223

Johnnies reloading got his best results with AA2520 and got real close to the Mk262 ammo. Blackhills claims to use a proprietary mix of powders to get their velocity and accuracy. Needless to say they are not releasing that recipe.

kwg

In today’s world, whatever is most available. I have recently been using CFE 223 with 55 FMJ. It meters very well. Will probably go back to H4895 after it runs out

Used a lot of 2520 but the variations lot to lot finally did me in with that. And for the most part with AA after that.

Could not handle a 200 fps variation from one lot to the next that a charge change could not cover without pressure issues.

Twas a bit temp sensitive too.

YMMV.

I've had sporadic results with that powder as well. Probably one of the worst I've tried. Accuracy was very sub par and unusual while using that powder.. I won't use it in another 223/556. Was experimenting with it in my new 308w yesterday and results were not bad. Not great, but not bad..

He’s to beat TAC in my opinion. Lever is a close second.

H4895.

Is that the reason for the recall on it right now?
Shooters World is close to or is AA 2520 and a lot cheaper, and very accurate.

LVR is a awesome powder in 223. Just no real data. It has a cult like following in some shooting circles.
Mostly with bigger 6mm, 6.5mm, 6.8 rounds shot out of AR's. But it is great in 5.56 also, takes more though.

I've found LVR and PP2000mr to be pretty similar performance wise in some cartridges. I got another 8 pounder of lvr at 30% of last fall before the powder all disappeared. My friend with me at the time laughed and said are you really going to shoot that much 30-30. He didn't believe me when I said I ran it in my 223 and 223 AI because he said there is no data.

I still mainly run 8208xbr but I like lvr too and couldn't pass up 8 pounds for $120. Now I'm really glad I bought it. He runs tac in his 223s. I've never learned to like tac. I've shot some good groups with it but never found one a load with it I consistently like.

For years I ran the 50g Vmax over 25.7-26.2g of benchmark depending on the gun. Every 223 I had would shoot great with a load in that 1/2 grain window. I still recommend that for people wanting a lighter weight bullet. A 50g vmax at 3400fps is a great varmint load to moderate ranges. When the 53g vmax came out I started shooting more of those but the 50g Vmax has always been easy for me to get to shoot great.

Now that most of my guns are fast twist I stick around 23g 8208xbr and a 75g Hornady bthp. Although this spring I'm going to try to find a good load that works well in most of my ARs with the 73g eldm because I have thousands of those I bought on a deal a few years ago. That's always fun trying to find a load several guns like. Last time I did it was tge benchmark and 50g vmax load mentioned above and even then I had to vary the charge a bit for some rifles.

Bb

Tag

I'd love me some LVR for $120 for 8Lbs! I use it in Lever actions's too.

I tried Varget in my .223 and wasn't happy with the results, but I usually shoot lighter bullets in it. However, it is unbelievable in my 22-250 with 40 grain ballistic tips. It makes me look like a great shooter when I use it and the speeds I get are pretty amazing- in fact they were exactly what the label on the can said over my chrono....

My go to so far with my 223s is H335. Excellent accuracy and velocities in my and my buddies' .223's and meters exceptionally well . I tried a few of the others mentioned but never really had much luck compared to the H335...

Bob

I have gone to this for my 77gr loads. It's very good.

I use CFE223 for 64gr and 69gr. H335 for 50gr TTSX.

I almost parted out and sold all my AR's except one carbine after years of horrible accuracy.

2000-MR, CFE, Varget, BLC2, 75 BTHP, 52-55 Vmax's and the list goes on.


I bought a case of Federal Gold Medal Match 69 SMK's and every 223 AR including a PSA pistol shot less than 1.5" five shot groups at 100.

Any clue what powder Federal uses for this load?

I suspect but don't know for certain, I may just be pushing them too hard.


Currently using 'lever and like it but I have a bigly amount of 2000-MR.


The latest build is a 6 Grendel and the first trip out and it was shooting less than 1.25" five shot at a 100 with 105 BTHP's, surely I can get the 223 handloads sorted out.

I'm always perplexed when people say something sucks when performance is dependent upon multiple variables that are use case specific. A powder may not work for one person's use case and firearm, but for others it may work beautifully. For most of my AR use cases and unique variables, I've settled on CFE223, Reloader 15, and XBR8208. These three powder's cover me for various .223, .308, and 6.5 Grendel loads.

My Sig likes CFE-223 and I haven’t seen any issues even with temps over 90 degrees. I tend to work with the lower end of the bullet weights in the OP’s post.

H335 for 223/556 and reloader 7 for 25x45. The 25x45 makes the 223 almost anemic.

For 77 grain: IMR 8202

For 62-65 grain: CFE223 < out of this at the moment so using PP Varmint. Almost as good as CFE223.