Debating on acquiring one - partly for a HD weapon, partly as a truck gun, partly to annoy liberals, partly for the hell of it
The house gun is a 16" .300BO, loaded with supersonic ammo.
Can't quite decide on whether I'd want a pistol caliber, a .300 BO, or a 5.56. Shot next to one guy at the indoor range, who had a 5.56 pistol, roughly a 10" barrel, and it was utterly obnoxious as far as muzzle blast. Think he had a standard flash hider on it, and I know some of the devices like the KAK cans help direct blast forward.
I've seen a PSA 9mm pistols recently that were reasonable priced and seemed decently made. The last I read, people who had intensively studied PCC's were not impressed with them for defensive use.
Thoughts?
Been involved with a few short barrelled AR's - 556 exclusively, Velocity loss is incredible - no, I did not chrono the loads, dead on at 25, 12 inches low at 100, 6 inches low at 50.
Not something I was interested in, personally.
Looking at a 9mm AR to complement handguns (less variety of ammo)
Also, REALLY looking at 350 Legend.
Worked a lot putting together PSA, nothing wrong with those weapons or the company. MILSPEC is MILSPEC, period.
I did put together a couple of PSA 308s and there is no MILSPEC on AR-10, thus I've been told uppers and lowers between companies are not compatible - but I really can't verify that.
Curious what kind of load you were using to get that kind of a rainbow trajectory? A standard velocity 22 lr shoots flatter than what you’re describing from a 5.56mm
I do have a BCA .350 Legend upper, and it shoots well, and kills critters well. In a pistol? Hmmm...
One of my gripes about the .350 is it needs special magazines, which defeats the purpose of commonality with the numerous 5.56 mags. The .300 BO works well with 5.56 mags, although I know some do make special mags for it, too.
mine in 300bo 8.5 inch barrel hangs next to the door on a hook. dog wants to go for a walk every time i touch it.
we have a wolf problem here so it goes on every walk with me. i seldom grab my 9mm S&W anymore.
also have a 10.5 inch 7.62x39, and a 10.5 .556. don't shoot them as much what with the component shortage right now, but the 7.62 sits next to my nightstand. it is fitted out with light and laser etc.
i should thin the herd but..........
i like the 300bo for the weight range of bullets it will handle.
ymmv
Been involved with a few short barrelled AR's - 556 exclusively, Velocity loss is incredible - no, I did not chrono the loads, dead on at 25, 12 inches low at 100, 6 inches low at 50.
Not something I was interested in, personally.
Looking at a 9mm AR to complement handguns (less variety of ammo)
Also, REALLY looking at 350 Legend.
Worked a lot putting together PSA, nothing wrong with those weapons or the company. MILSPEC is MILSPEC, period.
I did put together a couple of PSA 308s and there is no MILSPEC on AR-10, thus I've been told uppers and lowers between companies are not compatible - but I really can't verify that.
Complete bullshit.
Been involved with a few short barrelled AR's - 556 exclusively, Velocity loss is incredible - no, I did not chrono the loads, dead on at 25, 12 inches low at 100, 6 inches low at 50.
Complete bullshit.
Yep,
Total bullshit.
With a 10.5" barrel you can get 2800 out of a 52gr NCC.
Here's what a 250 yard zero looks like:
Calculated Table
Range Drop Drop Windage Windage Velocity Mach Energy Time Lead Lead
(yd) (in) (MOA) (in) (MOA) (ft/s) (none) (ft•lbs) (s) (in) (MOA)
0 -2.8 *** 0.0 *** 2813.9 2.520 914.1 0.000 0.0 ***
25 -0.8 -3.1 0.1 0.3 2710.3 2.428 848.0 0.027 4.8 18.3
50 0.8 1.6 0.4 0.7 2608.6 2.337 785.6 0.055 9.7 18.6
75 2.2 2.8 0.8 1.1 2509.1 2.247 726.8 0.085 14.9 19.0
100 3.2 3.0 1.5 1.4 2411.6 2.160 671.4 0.115 20.3 19.4
125 3.8 2.9 2.4 1.8 2316.4 2.075 619.4 0.147 25.9 19.8
150 4.0 2.5 3.5 2.2 2223.3 1.991 570.7 0.180 31.7 20.2
175 3.7 2.0 4.9 2.7 2132.6 1.910 525.0 0.214 37.7 20.6
200 3.0 1.4 6.5 3.1 2044.1 1.831 482.4 0.250 44.1 21.0
225 1.8 0.8 8.4 3.6 1957.6 1.753 442.4 0.288 50.7 21.5
250 -0.0 -0.0 10.6 4.1 1872.9 1.678 405.0 0.327 57.5 22.0
275 -2.4 -0.8 13.2 4.6 1790.0 1.603 369.9 0.368 64.8 22.5
300 -5.5 -1.8 16.0 5.1 1708.8 1.531 337.1 0.411 72.3 23.0
325 -9.4 -2.7 19.2 5.7 1629.1 1.459 306.4 0.456 80.2 23.6
350 -14.0 -3.8 22.8 6.2 1551.1 1.389 277.8 0.503 88.5 24.2
375 -19.6 -5.0 26.9 6.8 1474.7 1.321 251.1 0.553 97.2 24.8
400 -26.1 -6.2 31.4 7.5 1400.1 1.254 226.3 0.605 106.4 25.4
425 -33.8 -7.6 36.4 8.2 1327.4 1.189 203.4 0.660 116.1 26.1
450 -42.7 -9.1 41.9 8.9 1256.9 1.126 182.4 0.718 126.3 26.8
475 -53.0 -10.7 48.0 9.7 1189.0 1.065 163.2 0.779 137.1 27.6
500 -64.8 -12.4 54.7 10.5 1124.9 1.008 146.1 0.844 148.6 28.4
525 -78.4 -14.3 62.1 11.3 1075.5 0.963 133.5 0.912 160.6 29.2
550 -93.8 -16.3 69.8 12.1 1044.8 0.936 126.0 0.983 173.0 30.0
575 -111.2 -18.5 77.9 12.9 1020.8 0.914 120.3 1.056 185.8 30.9
600 -130.7 -20.8 86.3 13.7 999.8 0.896 115.4 1.130 198.9 31.7
625 -152.3 -23.3 95.0 14.5 980.5 0.878 111.0 1.206 212.2 32.4
650 -176.2 -25.9 103.9 15.3 962.4 0.862 106.9 1.283 225.8 33.2
675 -202.5 -28.6 113.0 16.0 945.1 0.846 103.1 1.362 239.7 33.9
700 -231.2 -31.5 122.4 16.7 928.4 0.832 99.5 1.442 253.8 34.6
725 -262.4 -34.6 132.1 17.4 912.4 0.817 96.1 1.524 268.1 35.3
750 -296.3 -37.7 142.0 18.1 896.8 0.803 92.8 1.606 282.7 36.0
775 -332.8 -41.0 152.2 18.8 881.6 0.790 89.7 1.691 297.6 36.7
800 -372.1 -44.4 162.6 19.4 866.9 0.776 86.7 1.777 312.7 37.3
825 -414.4 -48.0 173.3 20.1 852.4 0.763 83.9 1.864 328.1 38.0
850 -459.6 -51.6 184.2 20.7 838.3 0.751 81.1 1.953 343.7 38.6
875 -508.0 -55.4 195.4 21.3 824.5 0.738 78.5 2.043 359.6 39.2
900 -559.5 -59.4 206.9 22.0 810.9 0.726 75.9 2.135 375.8 39.9
925 -614.3 -63.4 218.7 22.6 797.7 0.714 73.5 2.229 392.2 40.5
950 -672.6 -67.6 230.7 23.2 784.7 0.703 71.1 2.324 409.0 41.1
975 -734.5 -71.9 243.0 23.8 771.9 0.691 68.8 2.420 426.0 41.7
1000 -799.9 -76.4 255.6 24.4 759.4 0.680 66.6 2.519 443.3 42.3
NOT complete BS, That is what I experienced withstandard factory 5.56.
Typical 55gr ammo will get you 2700-2800 fps from a 10.5".
With a 25 yard zero, you should be hitting 5-6" high at 100.
I zero my 10.5" 5.56 at 40 yards.
It hits 2" high at 100, and is back on zero at 200.
NOT complete BS, That is what I experienced withstandard factory 5.56.
If true, you had other undiagnosed issues.
Been involved with a few short barrelled AR's - 556 exclusively, Velocity loss is incredible - no, I did not chrono the loads, dead on at 25, 12 inches low at 100, 6 inches low at 50.
Not something I was interested in, personally.
You claim that the bullet dropped 6” in 25 yards (between the 25 yard zero mark and 50 yard target). Never mind that a person could literally throw a baseball that distance with a flatter trajectory. You then claim that the bullet dropped another 6” while traveling twice as far (50 yards) even though the bullet is continuing to slow down and should be dropping at a faster rate.
Not saying that you’re lying at all but it defies any experience that I’ve had and defies physics. I think something was wrong with your setup.
He wasn’t actually zeroed at 25.
For lost people the group dispersion at 25 is large enough to be incapable of verifying that the group is actually zeroed at 25 or if it’s a bit high or low. And a bit high or low at 25 can be a big deal.
This is why we get on paper up close and zero at long range.
Those that zero at 25 or even 50 yards will never know where they are sighted at 200 yards until they shoot it.
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthrea...gths-and-zero-ranges-M193-M855-and-Mk262
3” difference in drop at 100 with .8” difference at 25.
My 11.5” with a 25 yard zero.
![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/2lVZ115.png)
Same load with a zero that’s .8” high at 25 (which is very likely with most people’s 3 shot zero process)
![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/xLkEVdv.png)
I ran the numbers in Strelok.
12” low at 100 is 6” low at 50, and 4” low at 25.
I’ve been using an sbr at work for many years. Yes they are loud as hell but handy in confined spaces. I wouldn’t go less than 10.5 if i were to build or buy one. Just my personal preference and I’d stick with 5.56.
Debating on acquiring one - partly for a HD weapon, partly as a truck gun,
I've seen a PSA 9mm pistols recently that were reasonable priced and seemed decently made. The last I read, people who had intensively studied PCC's were not impressed with them for defensive use.
Thoughts?
PCCs are a hoot. I've had a couple and shot quite a few more. They're notoriously unreliable. The only model that has an across-the-board reputation for reliability is the JP, which I have now and should have just paid the money for to begin with. A few friends have MPXs that they trust, now that they've worked out the kinks and proved them reliable.
Debating on acquiring one - partly for a HD weapon, partly as a truck gun,
I've seen a PSA 9mm pistols recently that were reasonable priced and seemed decently made. The last I read, people who had intensively studied PCC's were not impressed with them for defensive use.
Thoughts?
PCCs are a hoot. I've had a couple and shot quite a few more. They're notoriously unreliable. The only model that has an across-the-board reputation for reliability is the JP, which I have now and should have just paid the money for to begin with. A few friends have MPXs that they trust, now that they've worked out the kinks and proved them reliable.
Good info, thanks - The PSA 9mm, that I've seen for sale used, makes me wonder if it gave the previous guy problems.
Debating on acquiring one - partly for a HD weapon, partly as a truck gun,
I've seen a PSA 9mm pistols recently that were reasonable priced and seemed decently made. The last I read, people who had intensively studied PCC's were not impressed with them for defensive use.
Thoughts?
PCCs are a hoot. I've had a couple and shot quite a few more. They're notoriously unreliable. The only model that has an across-the-board reputation for reliability is the JP, which I have now and should have just paid the money for to begin with. A few friends have MPXs that they trust, now that they've worked out the kinks and proved them reliable.
Yep........my MPX is good-to-go and one of the most 'fun' guns in the house.
PCCs are a hoot. I've had a couple and shot quite a few more. They're notoriously unreliable. The only model that has an across-the-board reputation for reliability is the JP, which I have now and should have just paid the money for to begin with. A few friends have MPXs that they trust, now that they've worked out the kinks and proved them reliable.
Yep........my MPX is good-to-go and one of the most 'fun' guns in the house.
Hmmm....they seem to be bringing quite a premium right now...
A 10.5” 556 pistol with a suppressor is completely different than unsuppressed. Unsuppressed mine rattles teeth. Suppressed you can shoot it without ear protection. It ends up being about m4 size with an 8” suppressor but is a perfect home/yard gun combined with a light.
PCCs are a hoot. I've had a couple and shot quite a few more. They're notoriously unreliable. The only model that has an across-the-board reputation for reliability is the JP, which I have now and should have just paid the money for to begin with. A few friends have MPXs that they trust, now that they've worked out the kinks and proved them reliable.
Yep........my MPX is good-to-go and one of the most 'fun' guns in the house.
Hmmm....they seem to be bringing quite a premium right now...
NO kidding!
I put an SLR linear comp on my 10.5" AR pistol and it greatly reduced perceived blast and concussion, but groups opened up. I many have also switched lots of xm193. I need to figure it out, because the SLR was a pleasure to shoot.
What's the difference between a $40 and $140 compensator, besides the obvious?
If someone, say a friend, was going to dedicate a suppressor to an AR pistol, what are some good recommendations?
YHM turbo.
I have half a dozen cans from rugged, DeadAir, etc.
If I was starting over, I'd save a ton of cash and just buy yankee hill.
The muzzle device in my 7.5” 5.56 Saint makes it not bad to shoot at all in my opinion. Way better than the 10.5” with birdcages I’ve shot. In fact my Saint with a 40 round pmag is my truck gun.
YHM turbo.
I have half a dozen cans from rugged, DeadAir, etc.
If I was starting over, I'd save a ton of cash and just buy yankee hill.
I'd like to hear more about that Yankee Hill Turbo.
YHM turbo.
I have half a dozen cans from rugged, DeadAir, etc.
If I was starting over, I'd save a ton of cash and just buy yankee hill.
I'd like to hear more about that Yankee Hill Turbo.
Me too.
I have the Turbo’s big brother the gen 1 Resonator. Same basic build as the Turbo but 30 cal. They aren’t super light but they sound good, are built well, have a respected qd system, have a great warranty, and are reasonably priced.
They are tubeless with and inconel blast chamber and stainless baffles CNC welded.
A 10.5” 556 pistol with a suppressor is completely different than unsuppressed. Unsuppressed mine rattles teeth. Suppressed you can shoot it without ear protection. It ends up being about m4 size with an 8” suppressor but is a perfect home/yard gun combined with a light.
Same experience hear. (See that?) Though I am liking the 11.5" too. The 10.5 5.56 suppressed was surprisingly quieter than a 22lr revolver. I wish, rather all the other dicking around over the years, I would have just bought a few more suppressors.
Suppress it or get a bullpup.
I have the Turbo’s big brother the gen 1 Resonator. Same basic build as the Turbo but 30 cal. They aren’t super light but they sound good, are built well, have a respected qd system, have a great warranty, and are reasonably priced.
They are tubeless with and inconel blast chamber and stainless baffles CNC welded.
I would be running it on my 11.5" BCM and wouldn't care that it's not super light.
Yeah resonator or turbo is the way to go.
I would go to silencer shops YouTube channel and start watching videos. Maybe jot down notes on at ear volume versus at muzzle volume versus weight versus length for your top two or three pics and go from there.
I have a turbo k that continues to impress me. If you're shooting on an AR it's about like shooting a loud 22 or 22 mag without ear pro no matter what can you choose and how much you pay so you're going to need ear protection for more than the occasional pop at a coyote.
Really no supersonic rifle round is safe without earpro so just embrace that and get something that's nice and light, in my opinion.
Yankee Hill is one of those situations where you get more than what you pay for in my opinion.
If you actually are a super hard use door kicker type that spends thousands of rounds training a month doing CQB drills, sure maybe you'd be better off with a sure fire or rugged brand or something like that, but for the vast majority of us I really think the Yankee Hill cans are phenomenal.
On the other end of the spectrum if you are super into PRS shooting or putting the smallest group on paper at the farthest distance away possible every weekend, you might want to step up to a tbac (thunder beast).
They're probably the "best" but you can easily buy three or four Yankee Hill cans for the price of one thunder beast.
I like pairing a silencer to a gun and being done with it instead of having to swap muzzle devices, etc all the time.
Glad this came up. Right now my pistol format has an10.5” barrel with birdcage. Don’t want to think about indoor muzzle blast after being in an indoor range by a 16” such equipped AR. Could feel body vibrations. Decided to not even shoot it till I swap the barrel for an 11.5 to 12.5”and install a forward directional comp. Bullets on hand are the plain old 70gr Speer cup&core. Want to stay heavy with probably a fast powder, likely TAC for the short barrel but also have CFE 223, Varget, & R15. Am undecided on sighting system but am leaning toward a hot white light hung and irons. But quite possibly dot with light. Fastfire RD is very interesting.
BURRIS RD FEEDBACK APPRECIATED.
For my purposes a 12 or 12 1/2” barrel is probably ideal. With the directional comp it becomes a very long pistol, and of course no one wishes to ID such a weapon as a SBR just because of its brace. But a 12” AR running 70gr SP from a 30 rnd mag with irons is a formidable line of sight weapon from feet to beyond 100 yds. With dot optics range increases. This new form or armament is quite impressive and obviously the Crown disapproves. It gives the free citizens it attempts to rule an even more effective purpose specific tool against tyranny. Amen
WTF?
Fastfire RD is very interesting.
BURRIS RD FEEDBACK APPRECIATED.
Hell it is boomer. If you’re a satan serving Communist Chinese lover too greedy to leave the slave labor of Communism, I pray to my God above your products rot and rust waiting for the sheeple to come. Amen
Understand I'm less a fan of the Chinese totalitarian government than you are. Calling it commonest would have Karl Marx spinning in his grave. China is involved in gennacide (sp) , military aggression and industrial espionage on large scale. They are single greatest threat to peace in the world. But you need to understand some economics. A electronic widget that costs $100 in the store, of that only $10 was only the manufacturer's and exporters share, the rest of it, the $90 was the company designing it, the warehousing, transportation, the importers profits, and the retailer.
If want to fight them, you have to out smart them. How many of your sons and daughters went to university?
Bushnell's line that replaced the 4000 series is made in Korea , the rest are Chinese. Burris is replacing it's Fullfield II with Fullfield IV, you guessed it, made in China.
Yes, I understand the economics. Our corporations need to do their economics in the USA. That’s my point. Both my children completed college, one cum laude from the Business School at Alabama. We out smart them by punishing them for their blatant assault on the world in particular the USA. They’d never expect it. I want the US out of China. They are our enemy and have proved it. The corporations that continue to do business with the Communist support the slave conditions of the Chinese people. Conditions that would never be tolerated here. So all y’all liking ChiCom products when alternatives are available; just buy it and wipe the blood off. Good as new.
WTF?
Fastfire RD is very interesting.
BURRIS RD FEEDBACK APPRECIATED.
Hell it is boomer. If you’re a satan serving Communist Chinese lover too greedy to leave the slave labor of Communism, I pray to my God above your products rot and rust waiting for the sheeple to come. Amen
Understand I'm less a fan of the Chinese totalitarian government than you are. Calling it commonest would have Karl Marx spinning in his grave. China is involved in gennacide (sp) , military aggression and industrial espionage on large scale. They are single greatest threat to peace in the world. But you need to understand some economics. A electronic widget that costs $100 in the store, of that only $10 was only the manufacturer's and exporters share, the rest of it, the $90 was the company designing it, the warehousing, transportation, the importers profits, and the retailer.
If want to fight them, you have to out smart them. How many of your sons and daughters went to university?
Bushnell's line that replaced the 4000 series is made in Korea , the rest are Chinese. Burris is replacing it's Fullfield II with Fullfield IV, you guessed it, made in China.
Yes, I understand the economics. Our corporations need to do their economics in the USA. That’s my point. Both my children completed college, one cum laude from the Business School at Alabama. We out smart them by punishing them for their blatant assault on the world in particular the USA. They’d never expect it. I want the US out of China. They are our enemy and have proved it. The corporations that continue to do business with the Communist support the slave conditions of the Chinese people. Conditions that would never be tolerated here. So all y’all liking ChiCom products when alternatives are available; just buy it and wipe the blood off. Good as new.
If you’re telling me the RD is Chinese made then I’m not interested at any price regardless of features and benefits. I’ve not had much success getting good specifics on this sight including country of manufacture. As far as I know Burris does not have that listed on their website. And I know, at least lately up until now, Burris has stuck to manufacture in the Philippines. That’s not nearly as acceptable as were the US made products of old. However the Philippines are as far apart from Communist China as is Heaven from hell.
Since it was apparently not obvious enough when stated, “Feedback” as I asked includes country of manufacture. Retuck panties, normalize emotions. My feelings have not changed.
BOYCOTT COMMUNIST CHINA. PUSH YOUR REPRESENTATIVES AND LET MANUFACTURERS IN THE OUTDOORS AND SHOOTING SPORTS INTERESTS KNOW YOUR CONTEMPT.
Shouldn't matter if that particular model is MIC or not. Some Burris models are, ergo the whole product line should be taboo. At least that's how I'm reading it.
Just went out and burned 40 rounds out of my son's Saint. Well, he did, I was bystander. I'll reiterate, that muzzle device makes a 7.5 far less objectionable than a birdcage on a longer barrel.
What's the educatd guess on the impending AR pistol or brace ban? No new parts? No new builds? Existing firearms?
What's the educatd guess on the impending AR pistol or brace ban? No new parts? No new builds? Existing firearms?
Who knows. Probably similar to bump stocks. “Ban” them and people hide them until the courts say they’re legal again.
The left is making motions like they are after everything gun related right now.
What's the educatd guess on the impending AR pistol or brace ban? No new parts? No new builds? Existing firearms?
Who knows. Probably similar to bump stocks. “Ban” them and people hide them until the courts say they’re legal again.
The left is making motions like they are after everything gun related right now.
The Farce be with them.
What's the educatd guess on the impending AR pistol or brace ban? No new parts? No new builds? Existing firearms?
Who knows. Probably similar to bump stocks. “Ban” them and people hide them until the courts say they’re legal again.
The left is making motions like they are after everything gun related right now.
No. The TRUTH IS THEY ARE AFTER ALL OF OUR GUNS! 😡
PCCs are a hoot. I've had a couple and shot quite a few more. They're notoriously unreliable.
I have two PCC's, 7.5" & 10.5" 9mm's built on SBR lowers using Colt pattern mags. The 10.5" has been 100%, and the 7.5
became 100% once the ejector was properly adjusted.
I'm in the process of building a 7.5" 5.56 and an 8.5" .300 Blackout, which I plan to eventually suppress.
It’s my favorite “pistol” by far
I have one and shot it enough to zero it, function check it, and determine that a short-barreled weapon with an RDS brings me precisely zero joy to shoot. My 16" Accupoint-equipped pencil barrel carbine gets used far more often. My AR pistol has been loaded and carried (as a truck-carried PDW for some surveillance work) precisely once in the last year. I only hang on to it as a middle finger towards the neoliberal control freaks.
Good info, thanks - The PSA 9mm, that I've seen for sale used, makes me wonder if it gave the previous guy problems.
[/quote]
I have a PSA 9mm carbine with a 16 inch barrel. I have no idea about the shorter barreled model but mine runs great and is an absolute blast as well as cheap to shoot with reloads.