Wasn’t sure which sub forum best for the question. I’ll start here.

I have a stash of 00 buck, and an auto loader I’d like to be able to hold a pattern tight enough to 50 yards that would take out K9 sized critters or torsos of 2-leggeds if called upon for it. Chokes I have that came with the gun are good to 20 yards but past that not so hot. I realize the ammo selection could play a big part in pattern performance.

Not looking to debate caliber or shot size or any of that, what I have is what I have. Just wondering if one of the buckshot specific chokes was worth it and which one? Poking around I’ve found the Carlson’s and the kicks buck kicker.

Thanks

Trade them off for steel T's then use improved cyl choke should good from 35 -45 yds. Will it work? Can't say for on dogs and bipeds but they bring down snow geese and they are pc non tox. BGG you know I wouldn't sh*t you....mb

Full choke
And generally the longer the better

One way to find out. Piece of paper of size appropriate, staked at range of choice. Give it a shot with IC and Full...you’ll see a sign. Loads and chokes are different landscapes for all scatterguns.

Yeah. I know the process, just wondering if anybody had a specific recommendations or good/bad experiences with the buck specific chokes I’ve seen out there before I start dropping coin.

Lol

I have 2 shotguns that I use Coyote hunting, I had the same dilemma as you a bunch of 00Buck.
I tried every choke tube that came with both guns with no success, they patterned like schitt !!!!!!!
I tinkered around until I found something that worked #4Buck with a full choke works awesome in both

I used to shoot woodchucks with 3" 12ga No 4 Buck Shot through an Improved choke. It would roll them at 45 yrds. I found that anything tighter gave me too small a pattern when they were inside 15yrds and running through the grass. This was 20 some years ago, but I seem to recall the recall the recoil between mod and improved to be marked. I don't know what you've got for an auto, but I'd recommend gas operated.

I'd start with Modified and go from there.

Yeah, it’s a crapshoot. Read plenty that say too tight a constriction with the bigger shot ends up negative affecting pattern, and some tighter the better. Of the 3 chokes it came with full patterns tightest so far. Just looking to extend my range as far as I can.

Suggestions? Sure. 2-3/4" shells, stay away from 00 Buck. Smaller be better.

In my locker are 3 shotguns for consideration. The 12 bore Win Mod 50 patterns buck well, incl 00. Will vaporize a grapefruit at 30 yards. OTOH, the IC barrel presents a very uniform and consistent pattern of about 20" at 30 yards with smaller buckshot.

The 20 ga Ithaca 37 dotes on the IC tube for #3 buck. It has never failed to kill a hog at ranges of 15-40 yards. Boom-flop

The Beretta 686 dotes on an IC/Mod choke pair and I prefer to splatter the nearby pigs with the IC and swat'm on the butt with the Mod as they depart. Boom-boom-flop-flop. #0 or #4 buck

What choke do the police use in their riot shotguns?

The only shotgun I have left is a 21” Benelli M1 and it does best with improved modified and #4 buck. Never tried 00.

The Kick's Buckkicker is usually about Improved Modified for your particular guns barrel constriction. That should be about .025" constriction from your nominal bore size. The longer ported choke theoretically should improve patterns by stabilizing the shot for a longer period of time and adding more gradual constriction and by retarding or stripping the wad away from the shot pellets as they exit the bore. Works great as long as you aren't using a shell with the Flight Control wad system. A load like the Federal Tactical with Flight Control wad will usually do best with a choke with a little less constriction and one that doesn't strip the wad.

00 Buck has a problem in that the pellet count is too low to keep the pattern concentrated at long ranges. The gaps between pellets gets too wide and fewer pellet strikes means less damage and effectiveness. Number 1 Buck is a big step toward a better load in normal lead shot pellets. A 2.75" No. 1 Buck shell has 16 .30 caliber pellets to compare to the 00 Buck 9 pellet load of .32 caliber pellets. More pellets of nearly the same size tilt the odds for multiple pellet strikes heavily in the No. 1 Buck's favor. Number 4 Buck works great on coyotes and such. No. 4 Buck is a .24 caliber pellet and the 2.75" load has 27 pellets. The 3" 12 gauge No. Four Buck load of 41 pellets has been a coyote hunters favorite for a long long time. The FBI used to issue the 27 pellet No. Four Buck load but quit after several shootings in which they cited limited penetration of the smaller .24 caliber pellets caused poor immediate incapacitation of violent suspects. Take that for what it is worth to you for your situation.

In my experience a full choke is too tight for good buckshot patterns

Most use improved cylinder or cylinder with 00 buck. Too restrictive /tight of choke may cause damage?

Not with common lead shot. Even in 00 Buck size a full choke is safe with lead shot. Tungsten or steel is another story.

May ve safe but the full choke opens patterns

The only 00 buck that ever shot well for me in any choke past 25 yards (IMO) is the Federal with the FliteControl wad, which is the cat's ass, my friend. The cat's ass, with a Cyl. or IC choke.

With any other 00 buck, it's Mod. or Full, depending on what the big sheets of paper tell me.

00 Buck patterns best in my Rem 1187 with the Cyl. or IC choke. The Full choke may be to restrictive for 00 Buck. I know it might not make sense but the more open the choke, the better the 00 buck shoots in my gun. The Full choke shoots #1 buck really well. I'm sure ammo manufacture and barrel length may make a difference.

"in my gun" is the key statement there.

Use yer supply of 00 buck for short range shooting & practice through a IC or cyl tube, Full choke usually sucks with 00 buck by scattering patterns.
Then go buy Federal 00 Buck Flite-Control shells, 3''-00 buck the lower velocity ones shoot the tightest patterns usually.
The tightest patterns come from Federal Flite-Control 2 3/4 00 buck LE with 8 pellets @ 1100 fps, made for law enforcement through cly/open- no choke.

My Benelli M1 Tactical Model shoots that load best through a modified choke. There aren't any concrete rules here, individual barrels are gonna do their own thing and only some range time and some large pattern paper will tell the tale for your gun.

Thats why I said Usually.

Thanks for the on point post.

Guess I'll just drop the coin and try one and see if it works or not. Figured that'd be really the only way to know anyway, just curious if anyone had actual experience with the buck specific chokes. If it doesn't I'll chuck it at a touron here in a month or two.

My Mossberg shoots 00 buck tightest with .660 Turkey choke. Crappy with a modified choke. My 870 shoots best with a IC choke tube. Can't figure it out.

BillyGoatG, I don't know about now but Kick's used to let you try a choke and if you didn't like its performance they would swap it out with another constriction as long as you paid shipping for both back and forth. I have worked with them a lot on predator hunting, turkey hunting and large buckshot for defensive uses and tried different constrictions while working out the best combinations for my gun. Of course that takes ammo and time and ammo at least is hard to come by nowadays.

I was really amazed at how tight and dense my pattern with 00 buck was at 45 yards using my Carlsons xtra full. I’ve gotten to the point where I use that choke for everything and just change shot size.

I pattern, hunt with and load a lot of buckshot. Full choke almost always throws the tightest patterns. The factory full usually does pretty good. I have 2 guns that I put Buck kicker full chokes in and have patterned 3 more for other folks. They all shoot pretty dang good.

The load I hunt with is a 16 pellet 00 load (true 00, not the .32 cal pellets most manufacturers call 00) out of a Benelli SBE 2. It will hold 20" 60 yard patterns and will kill deer that far and a little farther.

I'm also working on a 14 pellet 000 load that I think will out shoot the 00 load.

I like a cylinder bore for 00 buck and have found that an IC patterns #4 buck well. The federal 3inch 41 pellet #4 buck is a great varmint load and patterns well to a decent distance.

If you can find it 12 gauge Federal flite control 2 3/4 inch shells with #1 buck gave the best groups for me. Remington 870 with an IC choke.

That's why there is so much confusion around buckshot and chokes. The versatility of a shotgun and buckshot makes it the ideal tool for so many things. The home defender/cops would want a good, even man sized pattern at 15-20 yards. A cylinder/improved cylinder choke provides that. I want a basket ball sized pattern at 40-50 yards. If that's what anyone wants, a full choke is usually what they end up using. Don't take my word for it. Burn up $ and time figuring it out for your self. I already have.

I've seen 870 Police Magnums come with Cylinder, IC, and Modified chokes.

No cop wants a man sized pattern at 15-20 yards. Any agency fielding that shouldn't exist.

By man sized, I mean torso sized.

I'll be honest, I don't know what the police want with theirs. That's what I would want if that's what I used for HD. Defending yourself from a person across the room would require a different pattern than hunting deer out to 60 yards or so.

I'd be very surprised if many, or any of those 870 police magnums would hold a pattern tighter than my Benelli.

I believe the Federal Flite-Control wad is pretty much identical to the Hornady Versatite wad.

I have patterned the Hornady Critical Defense (12ga, 2 3/4", Versatite wad, 00 Buck, 8 pellets, 1600 fps) through my Remington 870 with 18.5" cylinder bore. At 20 yards the pattern was only about 4 inches. I didn't try it out to 50 yards, but it might be worth a look.

The Federal Flite-Control, and Hornady Versatite wad is designed to make a cylinder bore pattern like a full choke. Basically, the wad does not open up at the front. instead, a high-drag rear end essentially slows the wad rapidly, and releases the payload while keeping it in a tight cluster.

Cylinder for us. Our barrels don’t have screw in chokes. Pretty much all of our shotguns are used for less-lethal. The AR has become the go-to long gun. Less recoil, easier for most people to manipulate, and likelihood of a one-shot stop is comparable to a shotgun.

I went through a bunch of testing when I moved to Virginia since the club I hunted with was a dog hunting club during the regular season. I got an SX3 Winchester and on advice of some others I got a Kicks Buckkicker Full choke. I tested a bunch of ammo, all at 50 yards with an 18" circle.

My favorite combo was Winchester 3 1/2 00 Copper Plated that was rated at 1450 FPS I believe. That stuff had 15 pellets in it and would easily keep 14 pellets within the 18" circle. That same combo with the Kicks and Winchester 00 worked in a few other shotguns as well.

3" Hevi Shot 00 was also very good as well.

I shot ALOT of deer with the combo and at 50 yards in front of dogs it would slow a buck down and kill real well, usually pellets braking legs and passing through the chest.

At around 35 yards or so I swear it would knock them out of the air. I was never a believer in buckshot until I spent some time working with it and seeing how my gun liked certain combo's.

Winchester also ran a run of 000's as well in 3" that were demonly as well outta the gun.

Hope this helps out some.

Thanks for all the help guys.

Think I’ll try one of those buck kickers and see what happens

Give them a call BGG. They’re nice folks.

Oh, and if you’re patterning for the best performance try cleaning your barrel with some acetone or similar. Get all of the crap and oil out of it if you wanna see what’s best. I learned that trick while patterning Turkey loads.

For hunting it doesn’t need to be that clean but if you’re spending the money on a choke tube and the good buckshot it might help to differentiate what you’re seeing on the pattern board.

90% our agency shotguns are straight cyclinder bore. We do have a few Older ones that are choked improved cyclinder. Our issued buckshot load is federal 8 pellet with the flite control wads.

cs2blue

That flight control buckshot is the tightest shooting buckshot I have ever seen and it doesn’t need much choke for your line of work.

That Winchester HV in both 3" and 3.5" are bad dudes. In my experience, it is hit or miss on how it patterns. If you have a gun that patterns it well, it is bad medicine on a deer.

When I first spent good $ on the gun I always wanted (a Benelli SBE2), I shot a pile of buckshot trying to figure out what I wanted to hunt with. That gun shot the Win HV 3.5 into a nice even probably 20" pattern @ 40. The Rem 3.5, it shot real tight. It put that load into less than 12" @ 40. I couldn't decide which I wanted to hunt with, so I decided to alternate Rem, Win, Rem, Win. Tight ,loose, tight, ect.

The first time I had a chance to shoot a deer with it was at a 6 point buck running sideways to me at about 50 yards. At the second shot (Win), the recoil and report was so much more than the first shot that it broke my focus for a min. I thought it blew up my gun. I killed the buck, but I didn't do that anymore. Went with the cheaper and tighter Rem and never looked back. Until I started handloading them anyway.

Well I agree when you start choking it down it starts opening up to a certain point you get to a full choke that and other varieties of cheaper stuff all choke down to about the same to about the same point of the flight control wad in a cylinder or improved cylinder
Is exactly what I have found when I actually did spend my own money on different buckshot and chokes my security gun with a 20 inch barrel actually has 13 different chokes ...

Have the forcing cone reamed first.

It will make the shots transition thru the choke easier,it means tighter shot pattern.

For number 1 buckshot i like a modified but my Father's Savage 820B has a full choke and tears a large hole in deer out to 70 yards.

Usually the larger size buckshot pattern better in a more open choke.

I have an 870 turkey gun I had the forcing cones reamed in.
665 Kicks choke. It shot turkey loads so tight at 25 I put a dot on to better aim it.

Used to go to x card shoots with it, and it took awhile to learn to NOT clean it.
It shoots much better with some plastic build up.
Unfortunately with high dollar/hard kicking ammo, it's not practical to
truly test for everything.

Could be Dillonbuck. I learned to clean it spotless by the fella from Sumtoy chokes.

I’d try both ways I guess.

As many have posted.

There are no absolutes with shotguns.

Most police shotguns are cylinder bore. Designed for close range work.

As others have posted, the only way to find out
is shooting the individual shotgun for patterns.

Bubba Rountree Outdoors on yoofloob does a
lot of buckshot tests. Give them a look

From watching several of Bubba's videos it is clear how he came by his screen name.

Full Choke with 00 Buck is usually NOT the best choice. A factory Modified choke will most often hold a better pattern to 40+ yards with 00 and 000Buck.

A full choke will usually print a better pattern with #1 and #4 buck.

But what do I know... only been patterning them for 45 years.

Kicks makes a great tube that i would recommend...

Each gun/shell combo is different and will need to be tuned.

They do have a little extra stink on them

The choke that works best for my sd 12 gauge is the regular Remington modified, it throws twelve 000 buck pellets into a 5"X7" pattern at 21 yards, dead in the middle of both furthest distances i can see in the house, for those that load or looking to load in these ammunition scarce times i cast the.360" diameter balls from 22 BHN alloy from a Lee Gang mold, four rows of three balls dropped in over a max dose of 800X compressed 50lbs with a winchester over powder wad in the clear 2-3/4" fiocchi hulls, no shot wad, it isn't needed, the load clocks just under 1200 fps.

A hell of a payload from a 2-3/4" hull, and one i'm sure would do the deal at 50 yards and beyond, 11 rounds of that super hard shot on board the old 870 is quite comforting, it just leans against a wall and waits.

gunner500's illustrations of his modified choke used with buckshot load.
Heck of a handload.
Reminds me of the effectiveness and utility of the .458 Winchester Magnum.
Best all around, outstanding in its field.

If I get a chance I’ll run a few of my loads thru. Been awhile since I’ve put them on paper. I know they worked though. It was like Minute Rice, danged things were always good to go.

Many thanks for posting those pics Riflecrank, that's the second time I've took a pic of that pattern, first one was because i heard a bud's bud and his son laughing about a shotgun, "yeah, throw it up and yank the trigger, you dont even have to aim" ..............i took a pic later and sent it to my bud, told him to send it to them, yes, even shotguns have to be aimed, a 5"X7" pattern in a house at 21 yards would be easy to miss a soon to be room temp felon without aiming LOL.

Sometimes you need to walk them in…

LOL, best max payload i could dream up on the 2-3/4" hull Big B, another bud brought out hams, turkeys, chickens, old carhart coats, long handle shirts, duct tape and rope, i tore his chit up bad with that hard shot load man, we couldn't catch one damn pellet.

Yeah, good hard buckshot is hard on meat and bones.

Yessir, and heavy clothing too, i think my 22 BHN pellets are much harder than standard lead or even copper coated pellets.

Like BGG is looking for, i had at least 8 different choke tubes firing 21 yards at spray painted dots that day, the Modified won out with this load.

Modified choke is usually good for buckshot in my experience

You bet JWP, especially with the bigger pellets, i have an old A5 with 30" full choke barrel that's plain nasty with copper plated #4 buck.

A 7" pattern is tight for an HD gun, and I'm sure it suits your needs well. The post however is about hunting loads. Patterns fall off quick as range increases. I would just about bet a 7" 20 yard pattern would be more like a 20+" 40 yard pattern.

No disrespect intended. I would be happy with that pattern too in an HD situation.

The 00 pattern I've been killing deer with for a few years will put all but one flier into 12" @ 40 yards. Every pattern with that load has that one dang flier. This is a hand load of 16 .33 cal 00 that runs right about 1225. This load will still hold a 20" pattern @60 yards.

Next year I'll be switching to a 14 .35 cal pellet load. That one has no fliers. It will hold a nice round 10-12" pattern @40 with a real tight 8 pellet core that will carry a tight pattern a long ways. A friend shooting my loads killed a buck with that load last year @ 68 yards and it broke him down.

All this is with a Buck Kicker full choke.

If I was smarter, I'd post pics.

Great info Buckshot.

Those loads sound like rippers!

Killed a buck with the 00 load last year that was pushing 70 yards. I shot him 3 times. From the back of his ribs to his nose he had close to 20 pellets in him.

I'm not sure of the longest shot I have taken with mine, but I'd bet it was nearly 70. I shot one buck after he slipped through a stander who had already been shot. He was scooting out across the green field and the hounds had not caught up yet, so I gave him a couple shots from the rear. He ended up croaking just inside the woodline. Hard tellin who actually killed him, but we did find some copper plated pellets in him when we skinned him that had broken bones.

I still think it's amazing the power the stuff has when it is shot from a well patterning gun.

Buckshot, good info, no offense taken, i read we were shooting coyotes and crackheads at 50 yards, all good anyway, were i to try to build a longer range load i'd experiment with shot wads and smaller shot, most likely 00 buck, then re-do the choke deal looking for best patterns, i'd still cast them hard with the 22 BHN alloy, you'd just have to see what that load did to a ham wrapped in a long handle shirt wrapped in a carhart coat wrapped with duct tape, very telling, and completely un-survivable within it's effective range.

Is that an endorsement of the load? Or not?

At 70 yards I bet he was just knocking him down. At above 50 I didn’t notice as much impact but they still died just the same.

Plus, buckshot doesn’t shoot up meat real bad from what I’ve seen.

That is bad ass performance from a good patterning shotgun. The pellets that didn't penetrate fully were on the hide on the far side. He died so hard that he cracked a horn running into a tree where he piled up. Distance from first shot to dead was probably less than 40 yards.

I do agree that hard pellets are where it's at. I don't know what hardness mine are. Whatever water dropped whell weights are.

Should be around 22-24

Good info Buckshot.

Trying the pic posting thing

The .35 cal, almost 000 load I been working on. This is @ 40. I about have it where I want it.

https://i.imgur.com/x3XDxJx.jpg

The 00 load I've been hunting with @ 40,50 and 60

https://i.imgur.com/oa086rz.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/ujxpRxL.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/TlGV1D3.jpg

And the buck I posted about above

https://i.imgur.com/a2baZet.jpg

AWESOME shooting Buckshot. That’s a killer gun. Nice stuff.

Great buck too.

Which gun is that you’re using?

Thanks!

It's a 24" barreled Benelli SBE 2 with a Buck Kicker full choke.

Wow. Never would’ve guessed a 24”!

Damn that gun shoots. PM me when you’re tired of it.

Nice.

I think it's a myth that longer barrels pattern better. I have a 21" barreled 870 that patterns great.

I looked until I found the 24" SBE. The Benelli has a really long receiver. Between that and the extended tube, it's about as long an the 28" barreled guns it sits beside.

Probably the tightest patterning gun I've ever shot is a funky, off brand 18" barreled bullpup 12 gauge a buddy traded for a few months back. He wanted to shoot it and I has some 3" 00 laying around that my son had graduated from. With the full choke, it put the entire 12 pellet load into 7-8" @ 40 yards. Blew my mind really.

Don't hold your breath waiting on a message. I plan to be buried with it. It just points where I look.

Yeah, that's a gem when you find that one gun. Mine's an SX3 with a 28" barrel and luckily it has been that way for me. I spent alot of time on the target boards patterning both buckshot and turkey loads and got lucky that it prints centermass to where I am aiming.

Those SBE's are and always have been the best of the bunch as far as shotguns go. Unlike rifles, I have a SX3 and got a Franchi Affinity 20 gauge a few years ago for turkeys. I just keep the SX3 ready for deer and use the Franchi for birds now.

I was hoping with the TSS shot coming around I'd see it getting made into buckshot sorta sizes, but I have seen it out there. I'd think that stuff would be amazing since you could increase pattern density and keep the weight up.

I hear of folks using T shot size TSS for buckshot and killing deer at unbelievable ranges. I first started loading buckshot to save money. The Remington load I was shooting was running me around $2.25 a shell. Casting my own, I'm down to less than 50 cents a shell, with as good or better performance. I also like the idea of being as self sufficient as possible. TSS doesn't really fit into either plan.

I think what you're doing makes a pile of sense. I'd just like to see how it works myself. I bet they'd be hell on coyotes though.

TSS #2 - #4 shot kills coyotes deader than disco.

I bet. Are you loading your own MOGC? I'd kinda like to monkey with it.

I am not loading mine. I have a very switched on friend that has developed some loads. They work, hit a coyote with a swarm of that stuff and it turns them into a sack of broken bones.

Man, I want some!

are you putting any buffer in with your hand loaded buckshot? Or using any copper plated buckshot I assume not on the copper plated mean as your casting your own but does the buffer make a difference with just lead buckshot much

I am buffering them with BPI buffer. I cast the pellets and they are not copper plated. I do powder coat them, but I'm not sure it makes a difference in the pattern or not. I do feel the powder coat aids in penetration as they are pretty slick and hard to hold on to. I got good patterns when I used Hornady pellets, but I saved an extra 90 cents a shell when I started casting my own. I also think the harder pellets penetrate and pattern better. Casting them is a lot of work, but I've always had more time than money.

Wade Rush has a YouTube episode about Buffered vs non Buffered loads, and in his test image a big difference.

I’d imagine those ultra smooth powder coated bullets don’t hurt the patterning.

Kinda fun to yak about the shotguns some. I shoot a lot of rifles but dang if running dogs and coyotes isn’t a blast.

I’ve never loaded shotgun shells either, need more of that time!

I get more excitement out of killing a spike in front of the dogs than a big buck out of a stand. I kill as many or more deer still hunting, but just love watching the dogs work and hearing a good race.

You ought to try loading shells. I have MEC machines, but use a roll crimper for all my buckshot loads. All you'd need are the components, a $30 roll crimper and something to spin it with.

FWIW, in my 12 gauge shotgun, Federal Flite-Control wads work as advertised. Hornady Versatite wads do not work as advertised.