Gentlemen:

I have a problem with the new Ruger SFAR with 16 " barrel I bought a few weeks back. After around twenty or so rounds on the first trip to the range the rifle started to misfire. I got it back home and found that the bolt had tiny one mm brass discs in it. These had apparently come from the primers blowing out of the cartridges fired. I sent the rifle back to Ruger and they replaced the barrel and bolt carrier group. I got the rifle back and shot it again. Accuracy was a dismal 2 inches at 100 yards, even with Federal 175 grain Sierra Matchking ammo. Ejection was rather lively, so I tried to turn down the adjustable gas block and found it was locked up tight. Ruger said they would need the rifle again because the gas block had to be fitted to the barrel. I sent it off and got it back, then out to the range again.

This time the rifle worked as advertised (including the gas block), but the best accuracy was still no better than 2 inches at 100 yards with a variety of Federal target and hunting ammo and hand loads. I got a bright idea and thought I would try the rifle out the next day after taking off the muzzle break and shutting off the gas block to factor these things out of the equation. Then off to the range again.

Shooting without the muzzle break in place was enlightening. I was surprised at how much more recoil there was without it. Ruger did a great job designing the break, as it really does mitigate recoil significantly. I shot the same variety of ammo with the same results, so I am convinced that neither the muzzle break or the gas system is causing the poor accuracy.

I did, however, notice a pattern to most of the three shot groups fired. Usually the first two shots would fall within an inch of each other at a forty-five degree angle, then the third shot would open to at least 2 inches and often more. The hand rail is nice and tight. I am out of ideas.

Does anybody out there shoot a Ruger SFAR? Has anybody else experienced this sort of thing on an AR platform? Surely 2 MOA is not the best the Ruger SFAR can do (I hope, anyway!!!!). I had hoped to make this rifle a go to hunting rifle because it is light weight and shoots the powerful 308 Winchester (as compared to 223 Rem, anyhow). My son has an Adams Arms piston AR 10 and it shoots a good 3/4" group at 100 yards, so obviously such rifles are capable of great accuracy. What do y'all think?

Not being sarcastic, have you checked all optic connections? Bases, mounts, rings, fixed sights, mbus, etc...

I've been very interested in the SFAR also and waiting to see some reviews. Please let us know what you figure out. Sounds like Ruger has at least been good to deal with?

Ruger’s Customer Service has always been excellent.

I’ve also been interested in the SFAR .308.

Another member here gave a review of the 16” version. His accuracy seemed much better with Factory Ammo, IIRC.

I’ll have to go back and look it up now.

I had to send mine in because the gas block was pressing on the inside left of the handguard. The paper sent back with it says they replaced the "barrel group", it's more centered up now, so that's a better place to start load development. I have a bunch of loads to try with 165gr TGKs and AR-Comp tomorrow if I can get to the range. Hopefully it's reasonably accurate as I to bought it to use as a hunting rifle.

Fair warning though .308 ARs , and especially light .308 ARs are work to shoot well, you really have to drive them more than most bolt guns. I previously had a similar POF Rogue, and it shot well, but took a little work.

Pierced primers are due to an oversize firing pin appature. Ie small pieces of primer in the bolt.

Small Frame is the future but it takes a bit of time to get all the bugs worked out.

The G2 didn't happen overnight.

Two Ruger ARs and two replaced barrels. That’s not surprising.

Gentlemen:

I did check the scope mounts and rings to make sure all was right and tight. And yes, Ruger is a great company and they stand behind their products. I have a number of Ruger products and have never had an issue with any of them. Perhaps not quite all the bugs have been worked out of the rifle. I hate the thought of that since I have one!

Ruger may be a great company but they jumped on the AR bandwagon and are putting out trash ARs.

I have the SFAR 16” and really the only issue I had with it was with Factory Nosler 125 gr Ballistic Tips. It was piercing primers with part of the anvil poking through. Average velocity was 2970 fps which was a slight bit faster than a 20” bolt action.

The gas block did stick on one outing, but It is easy to dissemble and clean.

It shoots the factory Hornady American Gunner 155 gr BTHPs with 5 shots inside 3/4” but at a measly 2482 fps. It did group just under 3” at 300 yards.

I am loading Hornady 168 gr BTHPs with 42 grains H4895, and it shoots those fine. Some groups just under 3/4”.

I was shooting it with a SWFA 10x but just switch that out for a 1-4 SWFA in case I wanted to take it out after deer.

I have built a few AR-10s for family, and would never consider taking one out after deer, but this SFAR is small/ light enough to go.

What a coinkydink! I just returned from my nearby range where I shot beside an editor from G&A working with one of those. Seemed to function fine, but was really loud, and he said that with the ammo he was using anyway, it seemed to throw one out of five out of the group.

Interesting, but not related, is that while we were at least six feet apart, his Labradar was picking up my .223 rounds, futzing up his data collection somewhat. Heard about a lot of Labradar quirks, but that’s a new one.

A Remington 600 cured Pappy of any foolish notions about short-barreled .308s, around 1971 IIRC.

The plot thickens ...

I went back out to the range this afternoon with the Ruger SFAR after re-installing the muzzle break. When I re-installed it I thought of the Browning BOSS muzzle break that Browning came out with decades ago. For those of you that do not know about the BOSS, it was a muzzle break that could be adjusted up and down the end of the barrel within about a 3/4" range so that a shooter could find the "sweet spot" for maximum accuracy of a given load. I therefore made a conscious choice to position the muzzle break on the SFAR about 3/16" from the original spot. I changed nothing else. I shot the same loads as before, but this time the best loads grouped under an inch at 100 yards! Perhaps this information will be helpful to others that run into a similar situation.

That IS interesting. Does the brake have a locknut?

Tension on a flash hider or brake can do odd things to accuracy. I loctite mine And get them just hand tight.

Just something to think about.

Yes, the brake does have a lock nut. I have not shot my SFAR with the factory brake. I switched it out with a ASR brake/mount for my Hybrid-46. Actually have not shot that AR without the suppressor.

Now to add to the thickening plot...

I have a Ruger No. 1 that has a new threaded barrel. As a test, I mounted the brake from the SFAR to that rifle and shot it. The POI changed slightly, which was not surprising, however, the groups opened up a little. It would be interesting to play around with that, but since 6mm CM has very little recoil, I will simply leave the brake off.

The brake that comes from the factory on the SFAR is a pretty hefty chunk of steel. I can visualize how it may change the barrel harmonics and therefore the POI.

That is good information, I have a 6.8 SPC I am going to try that with.

Wow, who would have thought Ruger would have QC issues, especially with a new design? They are giving Kel-Tec a run for their money.

Brakes are known to be an accuracy issue. Bare, more than not, shoots better.

If Ruger ever offers that gun in 7mm-08 and the bugs are worked out, I can imagine one living in my safe.

The grown ups run a muffler.

Welcome to the world of NO STANDARD SPECS in the AR 10 WORLD.

Everybody including Ruger does their own dance with this platform.

Including port size, port location, gas tube length, buffer spring strength, buffer weight,.....yeah all of that and sometimes more or less depending on the manufacturer.

Most seem to loosely follow the DPMS pattern up to a point. some closer than others which is a "kind of standard". Armalite paved the way but DPMS made it more reachable for gun nuts.
Alot of them do not know what they are doing so they look over the shoulder of another manufacturer and copy what they have....including the bugs.
Looks like Ruger did just that.

I suggest a SpringCo red/orange buffer spring and an Expo Arms heavy buffer.
It will calm ejection and you wont need the adj. block unless you run a suppressor.

Not the same I know but I have 2 PSA G3's in .308 18" barrels.
BOTH run fantastic, out to 400 yards 3" groups with hand loads 168 grn ballistic tips which is a farting around load. I use that load for multiple .308's including bolt actions.
That being said I like them both. They run well. 4'o clock ejection and 5 feet away. I took off the adjustable gas blocks. The blocks worked but it was just once piece I did not want to have to worry about locking up or just crapping out. So I put a regular gas block on both.
I have hunted with both and the last thing you want is that stupid adjustable block not working on a hunt.

Designed CORRECTLY from the get go it would not need it....this includes Ruger and everybody else that slaps it on the barrel.

Do I like them, heck yeah, they are fun and and enjoyable to shoot.

Best
HeavyDove

I am not sure that Ruger followed DPMS’s AR-10 pattern. This is more of a standard AR-15 pattern with a modified mag well for the 308 mags. The upper looks exactly like a AR-15 upper with a few differences in the machining.

I have yet to test it with the gas block turned off and now I am wondering how those factory Nosler 125 BTs would behave with it off. Have only shot the rifle with the gas block in #1, and #2 so far.

Should have it out this weekend for more testing.

Took the SFAR out to the range today along with a few other rifles.

I had loaded up 30 rounds using once and twice fired Hornady brass, Rem 9-1/2 primers, 42 gr. H4895, and Horn 168 BTHPs. This powder/bullet combo seems to shoot the same with Hornady, Starline and RP brass, and is not picky on either CCI34, CCI200, BR-2, or the Rem primers. I was actually trying to use up the last of those Rem primers as I only had half a sleeve.

I have a SWFA 1-4 mounted, and shooting suppressed with a Hybrid-46. I started with the gas block on #2 and shot this 10 round group at 100 yards.



I was shooting a second 10 round group and tried the gas block in #1. It fired and ejected, but did not load the next round so I switched back to #2 and shot some more. In total, I fired three 10 round groups, and no issues other than the test with the gas block in position #1. First group (shown was the best, but the other two groups remained under 1.75"

If I mounted the 10x back on it, I could shrink those groups down a little, but I really like the 1-4x on that rifle and will leave it as is.

Scoony……How do you like your Hybrid 46? I have one that I’m waiting on approval for and I’m anxious to give it a try on my 35 Whelen and my 338’s. 👍🏼

I run it on 223, 6.8spc, 6 CM and 308. I have tested it on my G19 and it works fine, but muzzle heavy for a pistol. I do have a 338wm, but have not had that rifle threaded yet.

Son has the same and and runs his on 223 up to 45-70.

I have the ASR devices on all but the 6 CM and use direct thread on that.

Only issue I have had is switching it from rifle to rifle. A hot suppressor screwed onto a cold ASR brake will lock up and you have to wait till all is cooled down before unscrewing it.

I have a YHM R9 on tax-stamp-hold, primarily for the G19, but will also be testing it out on the rifles.

Looked at a 20" Ruger SFAR today liked it

You're not the only one who has problems with it.

The tester was not...a happy camper.

Well, Hop is a bit of a wuss when it comes to troubleshooting. The gas block was obviously loose/leaking, yet he continues to piss and moan about it being "undergassed". I guess that is typical for his generation.

The SFAR really only makes sense as a hunting rifle, and 20" is more appropriate for maximizing performance from the 308.

The 16" version supposedly is "tactical", which is funny given the manboys concerned about recoil.

Running a suppressor on it, the 16” makes sense for hunting. Even without the suppressor, I would rather have the 16” for hunting.

Gonna have to call BS on this & I'm far from his generation.

Who wants to futz with different ammo, on multiple settings to get a new gun to operate correctly? When just one minor combo works?

Who wants a gun that leaks? Spits on your hand, maybe burning it?

He did mention other testers had somewhat better results & his was simply an example of one. Trying to give it a pass.

But... Ruger does have excellent customer service. They will work on your new gun, more than once if you insist.

Watch video, then post. The gas block was leaking - it's not freaking nuclear rocket science. Hop is either:

• a whiny dumb shlt
• A consummate professional who lets the review write itself in the minds of the unknowing.

I just got the 16” version and took it out today. Put an ACOG TA-33 on it (3x, 308 reticle).
I really like it so far. Functioned fine, no gas problems, and I was getting around 1.5 MOA. It’s loud though. Every shot would set off an alarm from a truck 25’ away. Hope my suppressor comes in soon.

Yer not gonna get me on that. I did watch the vid, closely. And then posted, quite confidently I might add.

Oh, & it is rocket science, gasses supposedly diverted or channeled to perform a function. But leaking.... like the bad O rings that leaked & caused the blow up of the space shuttle.

Nuclear isn't a rocket you scientist you. It's a war head that might be on a rocket, but a different science. OK?

Still don't want a new gun jammin all the time of spittin on me. Glad others have had satisfactory results. Good to hear from Jeffrey in Texas, sounds like he got a good one.

Does Ruger sell parts or do they still require the gun to be sent in for repairs?

I brew & drink my own coffee.

Depends I guess. I bought a AR556 that was chewing up the face of the buffer. Turned out it was a burr on the rear of the bolt carrier. Called Ruger and after emailing a few pics, they mailed me a bolt carrier and buffer. They did not want the old parts back. A little honing and the original carrier was good. I think that buffer is also still in use somewhere.

For a dedicated hunting rifle, I think the 20” barrel with the rifle length gas system cut and crowned at 18-19” would be a better mousetrap. No brake, no can and no threads on the muzzle. Just my dumbass opinion but that would be the configuration that I would choose.

A damn interesting concept. Well, considering all my AR's wear thread protectors anyway. But, with the rifle gas in this case? Sounds viable, is it?

I have found a rifle length gas system to be reliable and I prefer the 308W at 18-20” barrel length.

I have no need for muzzle accessories and finished out,“my” concept will be nearly the same weight and OAL as the 16” SFAR with the factory boomer brake installed.

Better gas system, closer to optimum barrel length, less noise and concussion… better mousetrap for deer hunting IMO.

I just mounted an SWFA 3-15 on my SFAR and ran 15 rounds through it yesterday. Got about 3"++ groups at 100 yards. Not impressed. Some were handloaded 155 Amax over W748. However others were factory Federal Bonded Tactical 165grain. They shot over 3" also.

I noticed my brass was tore up. Double ejector plunger marks with brass flow on all factory rounds. Ejected hot and to the 5 oclock.

Not at all what I was hoping. Back to the drawing board.

I can see a barrel swap in my future if they ever offer it in .243!

Only at 80ish rounds, but mines been 100% reliable and should go sub MOA with the right ammo. Shot (2) four shot groups of 150gr WWB at 100 yards. One group was 3 shots in 3/4" with a flier at 2 1/2", the second group was a clover leaf with a similar flier. Winchester M80 NATO went 3" off the bench.

Tag

Looks like an interesting gun to me

Hank

I just picked up a 20" SFAR. I noticed that there is, at least in my opinion, too little clearance between the gas block and the handguard. I like to see at least 3/32" of clearance all around the gas block, especially with thinner/lighter barrels. I just fixed the same problem with another large frame AR in 260 that was grouping poorly. I have also experienced the same with a 223 AR that had too little clearance. I suspect this is the cause of accuracy issues in these rifles. Another thing I've found with 308 ARs is that loads that work well in a 20" barrel don't shoot well in a 22" barrel and vice versa. I suspect the same is true with 16" and 20" barrels.

I don't wish to Sh it on the Ruger SFAR , Ruger makes great and reliable firearms but if you're looking for a reliable hunting 308 visit the POF Rogue it's lighter than the Ruger by almost a POUND and the one I have runs absolutely reliably and is an absolute pleasure to carry. My 16' version shoots 1 moa all day with my handloads. I don't shoot factory ammo so I can't speak to accuracy with factory stuff.
A little more expensive but a true 308 in a light weight AR 15 sized body. An adjustable gas block is available but mine works as it is so I don't need it, I don't shoot suppressed.

Good Hunting
Littlejohn

I have been doing a little load development with Hornady 155 grain BTHP with cannelure using IMR4895. Between those and the 168 BTHPs with H4895, all 5 shot groups are 3/4” and 1.3”.

Try some flat base bullets and see how they group. In my guns they group smaller than the boat tails.

Don’t have any on hand at the moment, but plan on trying 150 gr Interlocks. The factory Hornady American Gunner 155 bullets are accurate, but slow. I am trying to get the same accuracy, but with a faster velocity. The Hornady ammo is just below 2500 fps. I am just passing 2600 fps with the hand loads. One problem with the 155 bthps is that they have a very short bearing surface. Makes it hard to seat them straight.

If I were to get one it would be the 20 inch, I have had two short barreled 308's in my lifetime, both hunting guns. It has been my experience that the velocity of the bullet makes a difference. I shot a 250 or so pound hog with a Ruger 16 inch AR the old model forget the name, it was heavy as hell, I hit him in the shoulder so he could not walk but I had to walk up to him and shoot him in the head with a 45ACP ball ammo as he was still breathing 5 minutes or so after the shot. sorry std old rem 150 grain core loc.

This is my last load development outing with my SFAR (tried to lable the targets before putting them out, then shot the wrong ones with this rifle).

40.5gr of AR-Comp under 165gr TGKs, and 42gr under 150gr Interlocks is what I'm going with for now. I recently took the fixed 12x off and put a PA 3x microprism on the rifle, and it's a very handy package. All the loads are with my Nomad TI on the end.


Trying to see what loads it took with different brass to equal my LC brass loads.


The rifle seemed to really like Winchester Deer Season XP factory ammo. In the future I'll probably try different 150s, the Interlocks I've been working with kind of suck but I have a bunch.

Winchester Deer Season is next up on my list of ammo to test. Nice to see that group!

What length barrel was that from?

My experience with an SFAR is rather good. Very accurate rifle with several loads and bullets from 125 to 200 grain. I’ve had one malfunction early on but several hundred rounds later it’s had zero issues.
That noisy break that Ruger put on has been replaced with a linear comp. Quite a positive difference in noise level.

Hmmm, Over $2k is a little more expensive?

I am follow this and in the market for a light weight compact 308
I have an order in with one of my favorite shops and they seem to be a bit hard to get but I cant beat the deal so I am being patient

I looked at The Rogue and of course being a POF its good stuff a bit lighter no adjustable gas block but of course it can be added but standard with Ruger

The other one is the Springfield Saint Victor but that is still light for 308 but its 7 lb 11 oz still good for an 308, but more than 1 lb from the Ruger and a bit more than that than the POF it still has no adjustable gas block

but that being said anyone have a Saint and an opinion on it?

Hank

Not yet committed, POF isout due to cost, but now you got me thinkin Saint. Another pound, & a couple hunnert more than the SFAR. But a pound lighter than my M1A Bush.

I poses the question, is the Saint superior to to the SFAR. Obviously not in price or weight, but otherwise?

Gee thanks Hank.

Well it’s good to have options🤷‍♂️😁

I am getting a bit caught up in it
I have the Ruger on order and hope it comes soon

It’s a ton of fun for the money especially the price I was quoted
Hank

My Rogue was $1511 plus tax. I consider that reasonable for a 5.9 pound .308 AR.

16" and suppressed with a Nomad TI + Xeno system.

I've owned the Rogue previously, it's a fine rifle, but I don't really think it has anything over the SFAR other than price. By the time I added an H buffer, Dictator AGB (badly needed with a can), and a better muzzle device, it was up to 6lb, 4oz, replace the minimalist with a decent stock and you're up to around the SFAR for a lot more money.

I am torn over one of these. I would get the longer barrel just for the velocity and blast reduction. I want to hunt with my grandkids and its $700 for a tikka compact or $500 for a Ruger compact plus tax. This seems to accomplish, shorter stock, and increased familiarity with a modern sporting rifle, while not weighing 12 pounds with a scope. I would use a 5 round magazine and the simple 150 grain soft points that work just fine on southern 100 pound does..

My 20” Remington/DPMS GII small-frame .308 came with a soft Supercell recoil pad and is likely the most pleasant.308 I’ve ever shot. Wife and kids aren’t big rifle shooters and they enjoyed it. The operating system and pad toned it down to a long, slow shove.

Be aware though, that right side port pop is legit in a box stand, should someone be seated to your right. They need to cover their ears. Had mine rung twice when my daughter shot on my left side.

Thank you, i have also experienced the pop with a 6.8 spc. I am not overly impressed with this cartridge after 4 deers shot with it.

Yes….port pop is there in most semis.

Just curious, how many of the 4 deer did you lose?

1 a 10 point about 180 pounds, at about 170 yards, i probably hit him just below the spine and over the lungs. The TTSX bullet may have been too hard. I am just done with it, not in the same league as a 243, 270, 308, in my opinioin even a 5.56 kills better with a 62 grain TTSX.

After countless deer and more than a few hogs, not to mention other stuff, (with both) the 6.8 kills far better than any 223, with even the best bullets. I don’t compare it with much in a 308 or ‘06 sized case, because neither will fit in an AR15….which is what’s making the SFAR attractive right now…..I haven’t tried the 6ARC or HAMR, but I’d expect them to be at least on par with the 6.8 and Grendel….which is more than a 223 and kill a lot of deer and hogs. Some folks do get soured on certain rounds for personal or anecdotal reasons. I don’t care what bullet is on hand, if I can’t shoot a hog or deer in the CNS, I’d rather not shoot it with a 223. It sucks to try to trail blood on either from a 223 in the thick stuff, vs most anything else. JME.

The SFAR may solve a lot of the cartridge quandary for some folks vs deer and hogs in a reasonably light/handy AR platform….and that’s good.

I’m interested to see how much worse port pop is in the 308 vs a 6.8, 223, etc though.

I have shot more than a few, lost 3-4, hard slower bullets never perform for me as well as softer faster bullets. I have always had good luck with 150 grain 308 bullets, even out of a shorter barrel model 7 remington. My grandsons and I hunt in a box stand, we all wear ear protection during the hunt with electronic sound enhancement. The port sound will destroy your ears with the 6.8 in the box stand. The 95TTSX may just be too hard at 2700 fps for small LW animals.

Just to be clear: When referencing port pop, I’m speaking to suppressed use.


For small LW animals, I’m sure a 62gr TTSX at 2800-ish or a 150gr 308 at 2600-ish is orders of magnitude better.

I may be wrong but there seems to be a lot of sound from the chamber when it is in the box stand.

That's what I noticed too. Port Pop is more commonly discussed when talking about suppressed use, as the shot noise at the port can be worse than at the muzzle, but the port is loud even unsuppressed when compared to a closed-breech rifle. If that port is pointed at the nearby wall of a box stand or another human's head a couple feet away, there is going to be more noise noticed than with a bolt gun. Been there before with both scenarios.

Incidentally, word from my LGS is Ruger is likely pulling this off the shelf shortly due to a lawsuit from POF. Just figured a heads up would be appry

So, if I'm reading you right, POF has exclusive rights to building 308 AR's. No one else!
Does that also apply to Colt and anyone else making 223 AR's, since they got the right's from Aamalite?

If POF has the patent on their design, then yes they can sue Ruger and win. Not hard to understand. It is also not the first time Ruger has done this sort of thing. They got themselves in hot water over other things in the past. As for people using others patents: A patent is only good for a certain amount of time. After that, it's fair game. Hence the reason many builders are building rifles based on the Ruger 10-22. The patent expired and now anyone can use it. I'm not a lawyer and have not researched it with great effort, but that is just how it works. There is basically no protection from patent infringement after the patent expires. The reason why anyone can basically build an AR15 or Armalite AR10. But if you go and copy someone else's product that has patent protection, prepare to get slapped with a lawsuit. The guys over at Ruger are pretty stupid, so I'd expect nothing less from them...

Glad I struck while the iron was hot! It’s a damn nice weapon.

Not for 308 AR's across the board, but for the small frame using an AR-15 bolt carrier and shank diameter at least.

I checked on Ruger patent infringements and found none. Ruger has sued a few that it claimed did this but nothing
on the other way round. I'm just curious if Ruger is in the wrong or if this is just I don't like Ruger thread.
Information is king, hearsay is internet dribble!

I thought DPMS came up with that for getting WSSMs into AR15s?

I hope Rumore chimes in on this.

nothing wrong with a good I hate ruger thread. Works perfect for me.

Patent protection covers only the strictly functional aspects of a product’s design. Trade Dress protection covers only the distinctive and recognizable, but strictly nonfunctional, appearance aspects of a product’s design (think ‘57 Chevy tail fins). While patent protection is time limited, trade dress protection is not, as long as the product with those specific appearance features remains in production and consumers continue to associate them with the product’s maker. It’s sorta like copyright. This is why unlicensed copies of the Ruger 10/22 differ slightly in appearance from an actual Ruger 10/22. Ruger’s recent modifications to the appearance of their increasingly various 10/22 options have likely weakened their trade dress protection for all but their original 10/22 Carbine model.

That’s probably more than you ever wanted to know about this subject.

Misguided, perhaps. But, definitely not stupid.

Aren't all of these "small frame" 308 ARs based off of the DPMS G2?

What makes POF think they own the intellectual property?

Either that or the Olympic WSSM AR-15s

I'm just passing on what my local POF dealer had to say when we were discussing the light af POF he had on the shelf

Look at a Keltec P3AT.
Look at a Ruger LCP.


You can shuck, you can jive.
Twist and turn.

You sure as hell can't deny what you see.

I find it embarrassing to see a big company rip off someone like Keltec.

Ruger has always been good at "borrowing" designs. Maybe this time as well, & just a little bit too similar & too soon?

I don’t think Ruger is the only one

The one that always make me smile is

S&W Governor after the Taurus Judge

At least name it something unique

Hank

The POF used an AR-15 length upper/lower and moved the Fire control group back to make cleance for the bigger mag well at the rear.

The G2 extends the upper/lower about 5/8" to make clearance on the front and uses a bigger bolt diameter for a stronger bolt.

G2 carrier is the same diameter as the AR-15 but longer by about 5/8"

John,

You use the G2 pattern?

David,

Yes.

We don't do the feed ramp insert because of bullet deformation.

The silicone rubber extrator springs worked well but so do well set up springs.

Rem/DPMS had 3 patents for the G2 with the feed ramps inserts being foremost.

Really hope PSA nails this because the G2 is the best of the small frame big mag ARs.