Building a AR primarily for hogs and coyotes.

The arc has better long range performance but I will be using it primarily for thermal night hunting under 150. I might shoot steel with it out to 600 or so.

They seem pretty close in ballistics at those ranges.

One big factor is which one, 6mm or 6.5, has the best cheap hunting bullets.

I will be handloading but factory ammo might come into play also.

I think it may depend much on what your preferences for bullets actually are. One thing you can pretty much count on, though, is that Hornady will keep 6mm ARC ammo on the shelves as best they can. They've been able to keep pumping out bullets at a better clip than everyone else the last few years, it seems so maybe you could keep a 6.5 running without interruption if you like Hornady bullets. If push comes to shove, though, I think they'll make complete ammo production their priority.

That's all just my best guess. Maybe someone else has a better guess...or something entirely better than a guess.

cheap and hunting bullets don't jive in my books but YMMV.

I think both are well supported. And both are about the same dollars in cost of ammo often. There are so many side makers of 6.5 Grendel these days I think that will be available.

OTOH lets look at relying on factory ammo. Best there would be the 223. And its more than enough for hogs and coyotes to 200 if not 300 pretty easy. 200 is pretty easy shot with our thermal and we bounce back and forth between the 6.5 Grendel and 223 uppers with various bullets in the 223 depending. I can't really tell much difference at all honestly in lethality. Last pig was about 150 pounder at 30 yards by accident. She still made over 100 yards with a 123? SST bullet through her from the Grendel. And Ive dumped pigs and had em run less by 40 v max in 223.

How many rounds are you going to shoot? IMHO everyone that loads should have 500 pieces of brass. 500 bullets. and enough powder and primer for that or more. I rarely ever start a gun with less than 500. If I do its at least 200. If I know the bullet for sure, its 5 boxes. Primers are not sold in less than 1000 piece boxes in my mind. And powder is not sold in less than 8 pound containers in my mind.

Just thinking out loud on how we address ammo issues. Figuring not many will go through 500 rounds of ammo and not be able to get more supplies or ammo at some point before that 500 runs out.

Good luck.

Probably six one way and a half dozen the other.

Of those two, I would want the 6mm ARC. Midweight 6.5mm bullets at lower velocity doesn't excite me much by comparison.

I think they’re both good but the ARC with an 80gr TTSX at >3000fps would be bad medicine for most 4 legged critters but there are no flies on the Grendel either. I’ve been playing with the Grendel a lot and I’m wanting to try the ARC too since I have a lot of bullets for 6mm.

How about an AR10 in 260? RZ.

I only have the Grendel, in A Ruger Predator. Think of it as a 30/30 equivalent with twice the range due to a much flatter trajectory, and can shoot bullets from 85 grs, to 140. At Least I have in mine.

I was thinking of doing a 6 ARC also, but the cost of brass and availability was a deterrent. So I did a 6 x 45, since I'd never have to spend a nickel on brass, as I have 10 lifetimes worth of 223 brass, and still can pick up plenty more at our local range. It might be 200 to 250 slower than the ARC, but under 300 yds click the elevation knob up 2 or 3 clicks and the point of impact is the same.

Dropped a 180 pound blacktail this past season with a 95 gr Ballistic Tip. 24 grains of powder, so recoil isn't much at all.
And it is a big step up from the 223. 2600 fps with a 100 grain bullet and 2550 with a 105 grain bullet, and 103 ELD.X

Both or even all three are more than up to the task, on hogs or deer. Under 200 yds, I would think anyone of them is up to Elk, even if only in a pinch. Was looking at a Bull Elk this afternoon, grazing 15 yds outside of one of my home's windows.
At 200 yds, with a well placed bullet, I know a 140 gr 6.5 bullet or a 100 grain 6mm Bullet would put one down. Two definitely would.

have both, for what you ask, I would choose the Grendel

I’ve used 300BO in my AR for hogs and killed over 40 in the last 12 months. It’s very effective but shot placement is key so a good thermal is needed. I’ve only had one 300 pound plus boar take 3 shots at 40 yards and still crawl into the thicket. He still died but he was a tough cookie.

Head shot a sow they other night and the 300BO exploded her eyes when the bullet entered her skull.

I’ve used straight up 223 with success but hunt close in so 40 to 70 yard shots at night.

Both the cartridges you are looking at a great but not necessary if you want to keep it simple.

If you shooting texas style with hogs everywhere and moving shots, then the ARC and Grendel are better. I’m still hunting with tight timber and short ranges so it’s pretty much one shot and done and the 223, 300BO, 260 get it done for me.

I don’t have any experience with the 6.5 grendel really, or the 6arc

But I do with a 6br and a 243

And the 108gr eld-m from a 6br is really really good. That’s a 2800 fps start. It didn’t suck at 2900 from the 243

Knocking off 150fps isn’t greatly going to reduce the outcome in the 6arc

Juxtapose that with a say a 6.5 grendel slinging 123’s at 2550

Ur sending a marginally larger bullet, with lower bc’s, slower.. they again aren’t going to have vastly different outcomes on game. Don’t know for sure because I’ve never 123’d anything.

Bu108’s at 1900ish impacts blow softball size exits on elk broadside. Should do okay on hogs.


Another thing worth considering is the light weight vmax bullets for a 6arc are cheaper and probably better for varminting then what’s available for a 6.5grendel.



All of that said, has a 223 failed in a way that requires a 6arc or 6.5grendel?

77gr tmk from an 18” barrel dumps prairie dogs, yotes, mule deer, antelope and whitetail just fine. If i needed a tougher bullet, there’s a pile of known bonded bullets that should work for those max 150 yard shots ur asking about.

If it’s a just because kind of build, I’d build around a 108gr eld-m aka 6arc.

I am thinking about a 6ARC. I will be going to TX at the end of the month to hunt hogs but my choice has been the 6.8 spc. Definitely not a long range gun but I have killed several pigs at over 250 yards with it at night using thermal. I know you didn't ask about the 6.8 but just wanted to comment.

I have both and for bigger game at moderate ranges I'd go grendel. Although 108 eldms seem to do pretty well on game at arc speeds.

In my grendel I run 129 ablrs when I might be looking at longer shots. For moderate ranges I've started loading 100g ttsx bullets. I also recently loaded some 108g scenars but haven't shot many yet. I'm guessing the 108 6.5 scenar would work well on hogs and they have a decent bc for a lighter bullet.

The 6.5 gives you the option to also run 125g partitions for big pigs up close. I loaded a few just to play around and they went 2500 fps from my 18" ar. My one grendel loves the 123g amax over 8208xbr and I shot an 8 point Whitetail one year with it at around 400 yards.

Another thing to consider for pigs is Wilson's 300 hammer. I built one with their 16" supper light barrel last year and my boy and I both shot deer with it. My boys was about 200 yards out and it did a great job with a nice 2.5" or so wound channel all the way through the shoulders. That was with a 135g bonded speer that's made for wilson. I plan to take it or my 350 next time I go to Texas pig hunting. The hammer was designed with pigs in mind.

Bb

The beauty of 6.5's is being able to shoot long heavy bullets. Not so with the Grendel, I think the heaviest available is 140G.

With the ARC you can utilize almost any 6mm bullet and you gain some velocity.

And if you're buying ammo I think the arc is generally cheaper. On tne other hand, there is a bigger selection of factory grendel ammo.

The hogs don't care.

Kind of same here. use what you want. We have killed plenty and some out to same distance or a hair more with the 223.
And the 6.5 ppc. And the 7.62x39. And the 300/221. And the 308. And the 30RAR

I don't think there is a wrong answer here. Go with your gut. Either one is going to give you the results you are looking for at the distances you posted. No matter what you are shooting shot placement key.

I have had great results with the 123gr sst in the 6.5 Grendel on hogs.

Just used one of those a month ago on a pig at the house. I was kind of amazed she made it almost 150 yards. Further than most that I shoot with 223. Goes to show you never know. She was dead. And easy to find.

Having used both the 6mm AR and the 6.8 SPC on hogs for a while, I would choose the 6.8 SPC. However, I'd also have to say that almost all of my shots were usually right at 100 yards or less with both, and also I was using the 90-grain Accubond in the 6mm AR and a 120-grain SST in the 6.8 PC...so it's really kind of apples and oranges. Maybe with more similar bullets I'd have said the opposite.

6.8 SPC II and 110 TSX and hogs is a match made in heaven.

I chose the 6 ARC in my Sgt of Arms custom lightweight hunter. I’ve had decent experience with the Grendel but like the newer cartridge better. I stocked up on Hornady Precision Hunter ammo and haven’t looked back.

All the replies. Pretty much sums up which new toy do you want most?

Of course thats always they way we have bought. Research a bit. And yup, thats what I want to play with next and make the move.

Good luck.

Edited... FWIW I've shot the 6.5 ppc a lot at 600 especially in early testing of the round for Arne. It has no flies at 600 though it may not be quite like the ARC on paper it shoots very well at 600 and better in the wind than the 223 obviously.
My take from your post is you should go 6ARC.

Side note. Buddy always thought it took so much to kill a pig. he would hunt with 45-70 7.08 etc... and I walked with him on our lease. I'd let him shoot first and when they scattered and stopped I would ding one in the lungs with a Ruger Mk2 and an HP. We would get his, gut it, then go look for mine and gut that one. Of course I would let them go a bit before following up. Stories of old timers shooting deer with 22 short and such, and learned that if you go small, give them time before looking. It actually really applies to most shots as animals don't die as quickly as you think most of the time. Unless you are lucky and hit a major vessel

My personal preference is the 6mm ARCin a mini Bolt action. Though for your intended use distance, & if factory ammo is a factor the 6.5 Grendel may edge out the 6mm arc. Pricing & availability of a variety of loads in 6mm ARC is simply, pushing the 6.5 Grendel to the better supported side.

As a bolt action die hard reloader guy, the 6mm ARC may arguably be better supported.

Well if you are depending on factory ammo lately I have seen equal amount of choices for both. I have only used a 6MM very similar to the ARC on raccoons and carried it a bit coyote hunting. The Grendel however has gotten the full workout from me and I like it. Running 120 grain Ballistic Tips currently and 129 gr. Hornady interloks in the past along with the 90 gr. Speer TNT, the 123gr. ELDM I am at a loss to find a bullet that didn't do the job well. I was killing hogs in a neighborhood hired by the HOA manager and I used the 90 gr. Speer TNT to limit penetration. Killed quick and pushed to 2700 fps was totally satisfactory unless you cared about blood trails. This said you can get the 87-90 grain bullets to go that fast from an ARC. I really had pretty good luck with the 223 as long as I made neck, head or spine shots and used a bullet that could provide the penetration. Other hits let them run a ways and in the dark that sucks. I got my first Catahoula to track down hogs that got out of sight and she was a great dog for it. However I recommend you get both. Figure out what works for you best.

I was hog hunting in Texas last week. I used a Remington ADL in .243. It was serious overkill and excess penetration. I picked up a 7mm08 Ruger compact in December. Next year that will be my hog gun with 130 grain soft points down around 2500 or 2600 fps depending on accuracy. My longest shot was 50 yards. I didn't need a 90 grain bullet going 2900 fps for that.

kwg

Edit to add: I would take the Grendel.

kwg

And you think the 7/08 will penetrate less than the 243?

Of the 2 options you listed 6mm ARC.

But for a lot of other reasons, mainly cost of ammo & bullets for plinking or serious shooting in a variety of situations, I'd still stick with 223.

62 gr. Barnes TSX is pretty strong pig medicine, with lots of cheaper bullets for everything else.

JMHO

MM

I plan on loading it down. I'm just saying I didn't need the load I used. It was too hot for the short distance.

kwg

Gotcha. For my take there isn't much pig wise the 223 won't do. From 40 vmax up to 62 barnes and 75 bthp etc...

I was using a 223 AR for hogs for a while. It worked Ok, but not great. Finally I decided I needed something a bit more effective, and it came down to the 6.8 SPC and the 6.5 Grendel. I went with the Grendel since I had some of the reloading bits and pieces for it. I shoot the 123 gr SSTs these days, and they do a fine job knocking down hogs. Way better than the 223. The 95 gr V-Max worked on a few hogs too. At Grendel speed, they don’t seem to act like a varmint bullet, but I was neck shooting them, not shooting them in the chest.

I would of used a .223 with 63 grain Sierra semi points but the owner of the property didn't like the .223 for pigs. He said he saw too many get away to die somewhere else. It's his place so I will respect his demands. I think the 7mm with a heavier bullet and a larger cross section would be the better choice. It's either that or an 8x57.

kwg

Yup. Gotta respect the owners for sure. FWIW hit in the same place there will be as best I can tell, zero difference in the mentioned rounds.
I am not going to say I've killed more than the owner has, with a 22 LR pistol, or suppressed 10/22, because I have no way of knowing, but lets just say I'm fairly certain my 22lr pig number is north of 100 and up to about 300 pounds appx.

Your logic is sound rost but it's not my property. You know the rest.

kwg

Exactly. The way times are you would think the owners would want weaker rounds for liability issues. Rather than stronger. A lost pig is nothing to us, though I try to avoid it, I think anything 4 legged deserves a quick human death. And I prefer not to waste meat If I can avoid it.

There are zero flies going bigger.

And if we don't follow landowner rules, we are no longer invited.... our current one won't allow blackpowder, muzzleloaders, or archery. He has not realized I supposed, that he has not disallowed handguns. I'm not sure of the reason but is what it is. Follow the rules or loose.

My cousin that lives in the "Low Country" of SC started me into the 6.5 Grendel madness with tales and pictures of pigs, coyotes and whitetails dispatched with his PSA 6.5 Grendel and factory Hornady ammunition (123 gr. AMAX & SST). He came up to visit pre-COVID and we took his rifle out to the range and checked zero and then shot groups at 200 & 300 yards; I was surprised and impressed. I asked him lots of questions afterwards while we were cleaning rifles; specifically, about the PSA 20-inch upper and did he have any issues with the gun or the factory Hornady ammunition. He has taken a dozen or so deer out to 250 plus yards; and a few coyotes and pigs to about the same distance on his farm.

Since I already had 6.5 bullets on the bench (as I already load for 6.5x55 and 6.5 Creedmoor) I decided to give the Grendel a try and bought the same PSA 20-inch Upper with a SS barrel. This led to a Howa Mini and a LaRue Upper with an 18-inch barrel. Haven't cut flesh with them yet but Lapua 123 Grain Scenar groups sure do make me happy.

If I wasn't already invested in 6.5mm I may have given the 6mmARC close look.

YMMV

StarchedCover

PSA has been good. We own a horrible bear creek POS upper -LOL. Plus have shot 3 others. Our POS has never bobbled. It shoots factory around MOA. All of our reloads under MOA. For the 229 dollars it cost its been a good deal. Its an easy 200 yard gun and 300 isn't hard. The 6.5 ppc is a good round.

My vote is for the Grendel.
I am probably biased as I have 4. I have a 20” M4 that groups 2.5” or less at 400 yards consistently with Hornady black. A ruger American predator that shoots .25 MOA with the same factory ammunition. I have just had such good fortune with that cartridge, so I don’t deviate. There is a huge difference when the bullet impacts steel at 400,500,600 yards over the 223. It’s just an efficient, flat shooting and much harder hitting cartridge in an m4 platform. That’s what I would use.

If the 6.5 grendel is so good, logically wouldn't the 6.5 creedmoor in the Ruger SFAR be perfection then? That's what I'm strongly considering. Was going to buy one today but went home with a 224 Valkyrie that I just couldn't say no to. If it doesn't work on pigs though, the SFAR 6.5 CM will follow me home for testing.

I need to pick up a 200 buck Valkyrie upper too some day I suppose.

Having shot 5 hogs with the Grendel and 1 with the 223 the other day and having em travel same distances... although I think the Grendel suppressed is quieter than the 223 and that may make a difference in follow up shots.