Good deal, I thought. On PSA's Daily Deals page. $99.95.

https://palmettostatearmory.com/too...-with-carpenter-158-bolt-5165449729.html

Little late to post, I know. But, I just saw it a little while ago.

Yes, that's a decent price on a decent BCG.

MM

I have two of these in cheaper builds and they work great, the nickel boron is really easy to clean. (Read, I just wipe it down with a rag)

They have the nitride version for $69.99

https://palmettostatearmory.com/too...itride-full-auto-bolt-carrier-group.html

I prefer RRA chrome over the tool craft nickel boron by a Wide margin.

I prefer the old in house built Colt BCG’s but neither those nor the RR are on sale or even available.

And the best out there following the mil spec pattern is the LMT enhanced BCG.

But none of this has anything to do with the OP now does it?

And if your aunt had balls she'd be your uncle.

Having a bad day?

Be sure to post a link where the RRA chrome are in stock for $99.95...

And one that itemizes how superior the RRA bolt is compared to the Toolcraft nickel boron.

On the money LD I have several of the Toolcraft and they are fine.mb

I need to pay more attention on a daily basis. I really could use a good BCG so that I could convert the PSA/CMMG .22LR AR that I built back to .223 if necessary.

I don't what the real number is, but Toolcraft makes carriers for a lot of other companies that sell them under their own name.

Ditto for AO.

MM

I just ordered a Nickel Boron BCG from PSA.

I screwed up and bought seven non-logoed nitride PSA Toolcraft C158 blems for $60 a while back. Somebitches turned into seven builds - pretty sure that cost me thousands! LOL

I've had pretty good luck with the nitride tool crafts. I bought 3 for $69 each and they all turned into builds too. They seem to be working as good as anything and the nitride cleans easily.

Bb

I just cleaned my Toolcraft Nickel boron carrier with nothing more than a paper towel. Probably only 250 rounds on it.

I wound up trying one if they will ever ship the thing.

Now go make a thread about it so you can get the schit beat out of you over there and not trash my thread.

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/galleries/19346038/toolcraft
https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/gallery/80/medium/252586.jpeg

I am sure this is no where near the quality of the Holy Rock River Arms BCG but for $109 shipped with tax it looks pretty good to my eyes.

Toolcraft makes carriers for many other sellers..................probably make the ones for RRA as well.

Only a handful of bolt makers as well.

MM

And it’s not necessarily who makes them but at what spec or price point they are made.

Interesting point TWR, this $99 BCG then probably is not the same tolerance as a $200 DD!

Maybe, maybe not.

Just because it costs more doesn’t mean it’s better either.

Read the specs. On this particular BCG, it’s a good deal, I have two of them.

How sure are you that DD BCG isn't a Tool Craft?

that is a good point.

I don't think TC makes carriers (they do not make the bolts) to different tolerances.

PSA buys in mass volumes so they will get preferential pricing from TC in all probability; TC is a high volume producer.

DD does make a lot of their own parts, but not sure about the bolt carriers or the bolts, so it's not out of the question that a carrier from DD could be one produced by TC.

MM

I get their emails and it’s cost me a bit! Hard to pass on things like $129 complete lowers! Considering buying some extras for ARs like my cheap 350 Legend to better their quality.

It's a daily deal, but this is probably an even better BCG for the same money.

https://palmettostatearmory.com/pal...m-full-auto-bolt-carrier-group-8779.html

HPT and chrome lined.

No AR guru here, but my understanding is that the traditional phosphate, chrome lined carriers are better than Nickle Boron.

I have both, the nickle seems "nicer", but supposedly the millspec is better.

I prefer phosphate coated.

How is the phosphate carrier better? What makes it better?

Not arguing either way, just wondering what the basis for one being better than the other is.

MM

I've never heard that, if anything, what I've heard is the exact opposite, that phosphate is the worst of the coating and it only remains mil-spec because the military is slow to change.

Phosphate holds oil but nickel boron is slicker.

I remember when chromed bolts were being touted as better but the chrome embrittlement became a problem so everyone went back to mil spec.

Maybe that is where the thoughts are coming from?

I don’t know either way as my first choice is old Colt but I’m giving two of these a go and really liking the NB coating.

My understanding is NB is prone to flaking.
Phosphate won’t, and the chrome inside is tougher.
No personal experience, just videos.
School of the American rifle and Sons of Liberty seem like they aren’t full of BS. Appear solid.

Well, here's my take.

Manganese phosphate is a crystalline structure conversion coating for cast iron & steel; it offers no addition to the base material for any kind of wear resistance, & next to no corrosion resistance & I deal with it commercially, as with various other high tech coatings.

It does carry & hold oil to a better degree than any of more dense coatings like NIB, Cr, PVD, DLC & Black Nitride..................but all those coating offer various degrees of pretty high coefficient of friction reductions. Phosphate offers none & actually increases COF.

They work just fine though, & the chrome bore where the gas rings ride is a robust solution. My biggest complaint, by far, is that cleaning the bolt stem is a royal bitch compared to the other coatings discussed above.

IME with various phosphated BCG's, BCM makes the smoothest, most nicely phosphated surface that I've seen & all their stuff is high quality, IMO.

Current technology for NiB coatings as well as all the others mentioned above have all developed to a point that any flaking or cracking being a rare occurrence, as far as I know, from personal use & seeing others use them & being on several forums like this that discuss these things, ad nausem.

I have 3 chromed BCG's, one with a chromed bolt, 1 with a phosphate bolt & 1 with a PVD coated bolt...................all have held up just fine. That KAC offers an upgraded carrier that they terms the Krud Kutter, says a lot.

But PVD / DLC is by far the slickest, smoothest coating I've seen & there is a very apparent & noticeable difference in the smoothness & feel of manually running the carrier back & forth in the upper via the charging handle. The next smoothest is a plain, uncoated, polished SS carrier from JP Rifles...............is's smoothness has to be felt to be appreciated.

But if I could always get a DLC coated BCG, when I want it, at a reasonable price & in a design that I like, I would never use anything else.

And then there is Black Nitride & when done right, as are those from RCA, it is very slick & smooth as well with excellent wear resistance.

All these coatings wear far better than phosphate, with NiB at the low end & with the most visible wear at about the same round counts that the others still show no sights of wear.

As to the bolts themselves, MIL-SPEC is Carpenter 158 steel with phosphate coating.

There are plenty of other commercial bolts made from 9310 & lots of claims of it being superior to C-158, especially for breakage.

And that maybe true.............for the very best & correctly HT'd 9310.

But C-158 is proprietary & not nearly as readily available, & from the limited number of sources that it is available from, everything that I can find, says that it is far better controlled & held to consistent QA standards.

9310, by contrast, is available everywhere, & it's inevitable that given the many sources for the product & the variety of the HT sources, that there is much more variability that will creep through than with the more rigidly controlled C-158.

So if I buy a 9310 bolt, I will only buy from a fairly high end & highly recognized source & hope they have done their homework, but I really prefer to buy C-158, regardless of the coating.

Also on bolt design, if you really want added strength against breakage, HMB defense makes a bolt design with a blind cam pin hole with greatly strengthens the bolt at its weakest point. Young Mfg. was making bolts to that design as well, but seems to not being doing so anymore.

The 2 best bolts that I've used are a Young / HMB design, Cr plated, & PVD coated bolts from JP Rifles. Both are 9310, both have performed well & held up well.

Pay your money & make your choice, no shortage of stuff to choose from, from super budget, to outrageous.

MM

Great info. I'm glad you mentioned a few of the ones I have. The RCA's I have are very smooth, and wearing well. That black nitride coating is slick and tough!! One on a Noveske, and the other a different build. Both BCG's holding up very well, and looking almost like new, even though they may have a few thousand rounds on them. I also like how TWR keeps bringing up the NIB on the BCG in question. If he says it's good, I'd buy one. I like that coating, when it's done right. And trust me, I've seen some that were not.

I have a BCG from RTBA, of all places that is NIB, and it still looks like new. I think I have almost 10,000 rounds on that BCG as of right now. Love the NIB on that one. They advertise it as "UCT'S EXO NIB coating". The same process WMD uses. Like TWR said, just wipe it off with a rag, and it's good. I generally clean it with Rem oil, and call it good though.

One BCG I bought a couple years ago was a huge disappointment and was NIB coated. That was a Fail Zero, and it was a total POS. So, guys saying that coating is not good, or it "flakes off", may have had a bad experience from a sub par BCG manufacture, like Fail Zero.

Gotta love the Campfire.

0 sarcasm!

bsa,

You're not the 1st that I know of with a Fail Zero that has had problems................

Seems to be a brand that might be less than robust, but I have no direct experience with any of their BCG's.

MM

For the bargain hunters, Arm or Ally is a good source for a limited range of suppliers, & are big on Toolcraft & Aero.

MM

Being new to the AR back then, and even now, I just figured it was a good brand name. I was wrong. I also didn't use their bolt, as I used the bolt that was matched to my barrel, but boy did the NIB stain. And only after a few hundred rounds. Never saw that on my RTBA BCG. I ended up selling that BCG cheap. Like $50, just to get rid of it. A good NIB coating should clean up easily, like TWR said. I'd definitely try the Tool Craft NIB BCG, since you guys are giving it high praise. For the money, it's hard to say no...

I just wonder if the tolerances on the PSA nickel boron BCG are the same as a more expensive BCG?

I think some guys have gone over this, like MontanaMan. I don't know what kind of "tolerances", you are looking for and for what reasons? Better more consistent accuracy, or better reliability? I'd say if it's "milspec", it's good enough. Especially when it has a great reputation like the Toolcraft does. Like what's been said, Toolcraft makes these for many different companies. If there was an issue with their "tolerances", I think we'd know about it.

I know this is not a Toolcraft, but I've had excellent service out of it:



That's how a NIB BCG should look. When I say "NIB", I am referring to the Nickel boron coating. A well done unit, shall wear well, not flake off, and remain pretty stain free. It sounds like the Toolcraft is a great BCG, that I'd put my money on. I'd only hope it wears like this RTBA BCG has. And no, I don't know what "tolerances" that BCG has either. The rifle shoots very well, and has never had a malfunction.


Yeah, I'd put it up against a DD, or anything else. Is that the kind of "tolerances" you are looking for? I'd buy a Toolcraft, though, if I had an extra receiver to put it in. Just sold my BCM, because that one didn't really impress me much..

Exactly my question. if Criterion sells head spaced bolts with their barrels then tolerances of the bolt and maybe the carrier have an influence on accuracy? Seeing the cheap PSA video where it was shot to destruction IIRC it was the barrel that failed not the BCG. I did not go back and watch it again. So If you were building a "target rifle" my question would be in the absence of the head spaced bolt offered by Criterion would the $99 PSA toolcraft bolt be your first choice?

I don’t build target rifles but…

“ So If you were building a "target rifle" my question would be in the absence of the head spaced bolt offered by Criterion would the $99 PSA toolcraft bolt be your first choice?”

I bought the Toolcraft BCG for my latest Criterion build. Headspaced bolts are merely ones that pass the go/no go gauge. No one laps them into the barrel extension to achieve a square fit, which is what you want for the best chance at accuracy.

I have been pleased with the two I have and for that matter, most everything in PSA’s premium line has impressed me when you consider cost against quality.

Just to add, I’m an AR snob, Colt and other brands built to the TDP were the only thing I put any faith in for a long time.

But I have bought and used other brands hard over the years. Some have held up, some didn’t. The latest PSA upper I bought was simply to run a CMMG conversion kit in and it works just fine. Fine enough that I ordered one of these Toolcraft BCG’s and started blasting with M193 with surprisingly good results. It’s now my truck gun. It’ll work if I need it but won’t be hard to replace if it gets stolen.

Can't stress this enough.............just a bolt that in a given barrel, passes HS test. Not fitted specifically to a specific barrel...........just one that mates & passes HS.

In the example, Criterion make barrels, & they buy bolts, so they just verify that a given bolt & barrel pass HS specs.

If you really want to "fit" one, the buy a barrels that is chambered tight, & stone (lap) a bolt to fit.

Bolt specs are pretty tight & can easily be meassured to conformity per the atached drawing.

I check every bolt / barrel combination for exact HS with specifically measured case gauges before I assemble them...................never seen a combination fail given barrels from at least 6 different manufacturers & at least as many bolt manufacturers, except a Wilson Combat barrel that was short with any of several different bolts, so one had to be "fitted".

MM

So if I am reading that print correctly the tightest tolerance is the perpendicularly of the bolt lugs to the bolt body? Twice as tight as case head, firing pin hole, distance from bolt face to extractor hole.