I'd appreciate input on the feel of both triggers from those who have used them. I'm not so much looking for opinions about preference, but more descriptions of how each one feels during the firing process. I've read the descriptions from each manufacturer and they seem quite similar. My only real-world experience is squeezing a Geissele SSA a few times, if that helps form a basis of comparison.

The SSA and Hi-Speed National Match are two completely different animals. I like the SSA but it doesn't have the refined feel that a properly tuned Hi-Speed has plus the Hi-Speed has a 40% faster lock time, hence the "Hi-Speed" name.

When I bought mine it came with three different springs labled "service rifle, DMR and National Match. I started with the N/M spring but decided it was just too light for my needs and replaced it with the DMR. The N/M setup is sweet, but for me it would be for bench work only. Trying to find that second stage stop at only a few ounces with cold fingers wouldn't work for me. Now, I do have the sear engagement set at an absolute bare minimum for a true "glass rod" break. If I were to dial in a little more engagement I could probably get by the the N/M setup.

Mine is setup now with the DMR spring and minimum sear engagement. The 1st stage is @ 2.5lbs and the 2nd stage is just under a pound. I can ease the 1st stage and feel the 2nd stage stop, then all I have to think is "shoot" and it's happened. It very much reminds me of a Remington 700 Jewel trigger on the 2nd stage.

IMO it's an excellent option if precision shooting is what you have in mind.

Terry

Thanks, Terry. This will be used to shoot paper and prairie dogs from a bench, so precision is the name of the game.

I have the Geiselle trigger that SOCOM uses in my work gun. 4.5# nice, feels a lot like my RR NM.

My AR Gold is a totally different experience. 3.5# out of the package, feels a pound lighter, think Bianchi Cup 1911 trigger. You will probably have to fit the safety to it, directions accompany. Absolutely no comparison between these two triggers.

The N/M may be just the ticket then. My only complaint with N/M is that you really have pay close attention to the 1st stage pull or you'll go right through the 2nd stage. I personally like to pull the 1st stage then settle down on target in the 2nd stage before I shoot. With the N/M spring you really have to concentrate on making that happen. With the DMR spring I can feel the stop without setting off a round. The 2nd stage on the DMR goes down to IIRC 8 ounces. IMO, that's pretty light. At slightly less than one pound it's still extremely light but very controlled for me.

Best of luck,
Terry

Great shooting can be done with a RR NM, no doubt. The Gold gives an speed advantage to a comp rifle, so if that isn't part of your plan, it may just be extra money for nothing, IMO. They are NICE though!

I've heard a lot people say the AR Gold is the absolute best 3 gun trigger on the market. Something about the way it works makes follow up shots easier. I'm probably going to get one someday.

I also agree that a good group can be shot with lesser triggers. I have a couple of the RRA MN triggers and think they are an excellent value.

Terry

I have a fair amount of experience with the RR NM and don't love it.

T_a_k: Can you describe the feel of the AR Gold? I have no experience with a Bianchi Cup 1911, so I'm not able to relate to that example.

I probably should been clearer in the post below. It was in reference to the Geissele National Match Hi-Speed, not the RRA N/M.


That said, not long ago I could buy a complete RRA NM parts kit for $113. They may not be on the same level as the triggers being described here but they are definaitely an improvement over stock for a target shooter and IMO a good value.

Terry

RRA need work to be good. Sometimes more than others. You can adjust the stages as needed/wanted up to a point and hone the rest in such that you'll never know the difference between them and most other top triggers.

The issues with Gieselle are most personal preference issues and I suspect its the same with the AR Gold.

Bottom line in the end, folks that shoot a LOT tend to be REALLY picky about their triggers. Those that just shoot quite a bit, are not so much picky often.

If I was still involved, i'd have tried the AR Gold by now but being that I"m not shooting any longer and that all the triggers we have in our guns work just fine to win matches I can't help y'all on that. Other than the fact the Geiselles we'd tried... would have had a bunch of them by now I"m sure as we got other lowers.

What I can say, is that the AR trigger by Jewel sucks IMHO.

Feels like 1911 trigger properly tuned by the hundred or so people on planet earth who are masters at doing so. That is the best I can give you. It is technically a two-stage but barely so.

The Gold will take you about one minute to install.

The Gieselle will take a gunsmith 3 hours.

Why is this, setting the adjustment screws?

A Jewell is about as complicated a trigger as I've seen but still takes less than 15 minutes not counting adjusting the screws.

It shouldn't take anymore than about 1/2hr to install and adjust it. The nice part is you might learn something about it in the process.

Here is wonderful video Bill did on the install of a Hi-Speed National Match trigger. He reminds me of my 7th grade shop teacher.


Terry

if it takes a gunsmith 3 hours to install you must deal with Fulton Armory.

A trained monkey can put in and tune a Geiselle in 30-45 minutes depending on how picky you are. Not enough time to raise a sweat IMHO.

I have tried Jewell, RR, JP and Geiselle. For me the best for the money was Jewell. Very smooth and easy to adjust and it goes down lower in weight than all the others. Geiselle are nice but not worth the money. Buy a Jewell and save $80. Jewell has a smoother first stage.

I bought a Geissele National Match 2-stage for my lower to complement the upper Mike Millie built for me. Not bad installing it. Actually pretty easy considering the exhaustive instructions that take into account nearly everything when it comes to the installation and how the trigger works.

From the factory the first stage came to a stop at 1 pound 15 ounces exactly according to my digital trigger-pull gage. The second breaks at 2 pounds 13 ounces and this with me not even doing much adjusting at all! I just followed the instructions for the sear engagement and shazaam! And the second stage break is clean.

Only thing I don't like right now is when the hammer is cocked, the trigger has some drag on it. I think it may be the pins are so precisely ground to size they need to be polished. When the hammer is not cocked the trigger feels like it is rotating on an oiled glass rod.

FWIW, and this doesn't matter if you are happy with a Jewel. They do not (unless they've fixed a big problem) have the same pull weight shot to shot. Its not much of a variance but I can dang sure feel it. They changed something from prototype that I shot quite a bit, to production and once I bought a production one I shot it a few months and sold it as quick as I could because it just flat bothered me.

Also they have a slow lock time. Very slow in reality compared to a Geiselle. That affects accuracy to a great degree.

Now remember I"m picky, used to be a competitor and demand the best. Jewel was not that. Not nearly. My favorites are still our Milazzo's. And I'd take a well tuned RRA every day over a Jewel( unless as noted they fixed their problems since).

As such noted the above, the Jewel seems to work fine for many folks.

As such noted the above, the Jewel seems to work fine for many folks.

But most folks don't have anything else to compare them to except stock which always sucks but always works, not so with the Jewell. Yet people get hyped over shooting off the bench when everything is static. Get out in the field and even the stock trigger is useable, at least it'll go bang.

I too prefer the one millazzo I've tried to everything else.

They don't even make that trigger anymore, do they?

Not that I"m aware of. I used to have Charlies phone number but no longer can find it either.

Armalite copied it and tried to recall them. They changed a few minor things but it's still no Millazzo from what I hear. Of course that's been 10-15 years ago???

Who did he "partner" up with, Douglass? anyway they are the ones who dropped the ball.

He was partnered with Krieger. Douglas. That gives me nightmares thinking of those barrels.

Armalite did copy IIRC, but they did an armalite type job. Just didn't cut it.

Krieger it was. Great barrels but poor customer relations especially where the trigger was concerned. My buddy with the Millazzo tried and tried to get another one or three but gave up in frustration.

From what I hear it was not Krieger at all that had problems. It was Charlie that did what he wanted to, when he wanted to. I ordered 4 of them at the same time, they came in maybe close to a year later. Well worth the wait. But the wait was supposed to be 3 months.

I have NO issues at all if you tell me it'll be a year or even two to get what I want. I can wait in line with too many other things going that its not a big deal. But tell me 3 months and its a year or more, most people get upset. Didn't bother us, we were happy to get em.

Hmmm, my buddy ordered his first one direct and enjoyed talking to the guy, he made him mic his pins since it was a Colt and he sent his own pins too.

Then he had to call Krieger and got the run around, figured it was them but you're probably right.

Charlie was good to talk to no problem. He made a good product on his time though and that was about that. My suspicion is he couldn't find workers up to his par and as a result simply couldn't make enough by himself in his small shop to keep up.

Not sure I had one on back order from Brownells and they canceled it two weeks ago. I have had it in my match rifle for years without an issue. It breaks like glass, smooth and consistent. I can't see them turning out a low quality trigger. Im 700's all have them as well. I wish they made them for more rifles.

Don't want to hijack the thread too bad, but as long as we're discussing triggers, anybody have any experience with the Timney AR trigger?

John

I tend to think that Charlie Millazzo played favorites with the order of who in line received their triggers first.

I wouldn't part with the one I have on my service rifle.

Yeah, Dogzapper likes his. Most of these new AR triggers are really good. The only one I've ever heard anything bad about is the Rock River and their is a fix for that. Mine has worked great so far.

Probably at least multiple thousands of service rifle shooters with RRA that have never touched them that would tend to argue the point.

But all my RRA have been touched up...

Mine needs nothing, it breaks consistently at slightly over 4.5#, as designed. I was refering to the rivet replacement with the rod. IIRC, TWR posted pics of it some time ago.

Rivets were a stupid idea. It got Armalite into issues. Of course now that I think about it, wasn't RRA some pissed off armalite employees anyway... I'd have thought they'd have learned their lesson.

first thing you do is replace the rivet, and then do a bit of light stoning and adjusting and bending of springs depending on where you want to go.

Howdy,

I just put a HS NM Geissele in my Armalite AR-10T in .243. It took me about 35 minutes, and I'm no gunsmith. I turned around and put a SSA-E in my AR-10 A4 in about 10 minutes. Reading directions is fundamental, having the proper tools, priceless.

I felt the factory settings on the HSNM were super. Best AR trigger that I've felt. I have a couple RR NM setups too. Anyway, fast forward to the range and I was playing with it, trying to feel the second stage break. Stiff finger caused a three round "bump fire" that got me a few looks. I bumped that stage screw a little heavier. Will see how it works next time. I need to work on my squeeze a little too.

Rost495 Jewell must have fixed that issue. Just checked both of mine and at most only 1oz difference over the course of 5 pulls. That could even be me not pulling on the gauge evenly. For $80 less the Jewell is a damn good trigger. Geissele is nice but I feel the Jewell is a little smoother. Still none of them compare to my Anschtuz 5018 trigger.

I just tried the AR Gold, felt funny to me so sent it back.

"funny"? As in not gritty enough? You turn down wake-up hummers as well?

I did not like it, this is subjective some people don't like broccoli, I personally did not feel that it had as nice a trigger pull as my RRA NM trigger. Yes it has no grit, but it has no clear reset, the trigger is thin, and the pull is not all that great with the set screw half the way out.

If you are after a "quality combat" trigger, I understand, as even adjusted all the way "up" to 3.5#, it is a tad light for social work. For a precision/varmint type setup, the AR Gold is without peer, IMO. For a working gun, I think the Geisselle SSA (4.5#) is the way to go.

AR Gold is coming out with a fixed weight trigger. I have a prototype currently and it weighs 4#.

I did not like it, it's that simple. Either the one i got was bad or It was not worth the money.

I just bought and installed a Geissele SSA-E trigger in the lower, its "OK" for my purposes. Per TWR I worry about the brad in the RRA NM trigger or I would have got that one. TAK I just did not like the AR Gold trigger, maybe it was that the trigger blade was more narrow and I could not feel a clear reset.

I wish the DMR trigger would have worked but this one is simpler anyway.