Hi,I am interested in a Lightweight (under 6.5 pounds)accurate (less than 2 inches at a hundred)rifle in 223
I would be scoping the rifle (deer and coyote)
Reliable(needs to be able to ideally feed factory Barnes or Factory partitions).
Prefer 18-20 inch barrel but might settle for 16.
Recomendations appreciated.
Craig
Interested in something like that as well. Kifaru is offering a lightweight lower but I have never built one. Looking forward to input from those in the know.
The barrel is the most weight on an AR. Look for a skinny barrel rifle. I believe Colt has one as well as Daniel Defense. Another option wold be the DPMS Sportical. No forward assist and no sights. Put a small scope on and you might make your 6.5 limit. kwg
I have a Colt 6920 AR patrol rifle, 16" barrel. This rifle is small and light. So far it has not jammed, failed to rife, failed to eject, not a single problem in the first 500 rounds.
I was out testing some handloads with 69 gr Nosler HPBT bullets today. First 3-shot group was 3/8 inch. 10 shot was 1.4". 100 yds benched. It shoots the same with the 63 gr. greentip lake city. Doesn't shoot the 55 gr FMJ quite as well.
Another light weight rifle is the Kimber Montana. It should shoot well, but no guarantees. I've had 3 of them. 2 were sub-MOA, one was about a 2 MOA rifle and it didn't matter what I shot through it.
If were talking a custom look at a NULA.
if you can find a colt 6720, that is about as light as you can get from factory.
Have WOA build you an upper using one of there SDM of SPR barrels and a carbon free float tube. Put together your own lower.
I've got a Noveske Rogue Hunter with 18" SS barrel on order. You might want to look that route?
I shoot a Barnes Precision and it is a pretty light. I'm comparing it to work rifles and the LWRC I had but it feels like helium in comparison and shoots lights out. Dollar for dollar I don't think they can be beat.
Thanks guys ,keep the suggestions coming!
Smith & Wesson M&P Sport AR-15. Mine will shoot sub-1" groups with the good or premium ammo all day long. Worst groups shot have been with military 62 gra penetrator ammo. 1.75" groups at 100 yards. Pretty hard to beat for the money.
I also like the Bushmaster Carbon-15 M4 Carbine. A lot of forum guys trash them over on AR.com.
I've had mine for 10 years & have puts thousands of rounds though it & have never had a malfunction! It's also 1lb lighter than most other AR Carbines!
once you put a scope, mount and sling on it starting at 6.5 pounds you will be at 8 pounds or so. The pencil barrreled Colt 6720 if you can find one is milspec, 5.56 chamber, with a chromed barrel. However if you just want a hobby gun I agree that the SW sporter is probably a great way to go, their barrel is nitrided. I will not own or hunt with a bare steel barreled semi auto gun unless it is stainless.
Hi,it appears like I am going to need a bare rifle weight of bout 5.5 pounds so when I add the scope,rings ,sling,and 5 rounds of ammo it will be 7 pounds or less that i want.
Thanks
Craig
A Noveske Thunder Ranch will get you close. I own one and absolutely love it.
http://noveskerifleworks.com/cgi-bin/imcart/display.cgi?item_id=r-trsc-556Blessings,
Steve
My rifles are thousands of miles away so I cannot give a definitive answer but I bought my Daniel Defense M4V7 because it was on the lighter end, pretty well thought of given what I read, relatively reasonably priced given how it is equipped and mil-spec. I am more than pleased.
If I stumbled over one of those in this day and age I would have to break the piggy bank to buy it. On the other hand the trouble is folks are asking $4000 for a $2000 rifle these days. The other trouble I think is buying a gun today from a private party you cannot know what parts they have used or if they have removed original parts and substituted cheaper junk parts in order to resell or keep the good parts. So you have the best of both worlds Junk guns and twice the price.
Colt 6720 with aimpoint, flashlight, 25 rounds is 7 pounds 9 ounces.
Okay, I'll play. How about a Cavalry Arms lower, with a std upper receiver, the shortest stainless pencil barrel you can find, and a carbon fiber fore end. There are some Cav Arms guns on GB, and I see that another company has picked up making the lowers (GWACS Armory?). I hope their quality is as good as Cav Arms was.
I'm currently building a lightweight upper with a 14.5 in. 1:7 twist pencil barrel, but I went with a YHM fore end to work with the front sight I had already purchased. I need to get off my dead ass & get it finished.
Colt Talo 6720 R
Pencil barrel. Light, Perfect balance (for me anyways)
30 rounds into a 4" target @ 75 yards as fast as you can pull the trigger. (Hence, Hot Barrel)
Never a Problem.
Like me, You will have to find one used. Good luck.
http://taloinc.com/blog/?tag=colt-lt6720-rMine was dressed in all Magpul with a Roger's stock. I replaced to a Vltor.
I want a 18-20 inch barrel.
Not looking for 30 rounds into a 4 inch target @75 yards as fast as I can pull the trigger.Looking for accuracy for deer and coyotes and a certain criteria for weight and barrel length.
wish I could find a complete lower as I think that would work.Think the cav lower would make it as well ?
If you're looking for a lightweight lower, this might be what you're looking for:
Metal lightweight lower that weighs less than 6 oz It even has an integral trigger guard (every quarter of an ounce counts, right?).
It would be cheaper to go with a polymer lower, but I'm not sure how the weight compares. On a polymer lower, I think you're probably right to look for a complete polymer lower instead of building one.
Your third lightweight lower option would be a Bushmaster Carbon lower (I'm not sure about durability on those - that would be something to check).
Edit to add:
I think the lower I linked above (at Brownells) is the same as the one that Kifaru sells, but Brownells is something like $40 cheaper.
Here is a link to a table somebody put together with weights for various AR-15 components that might help you in building one under six pounds before scope.
weights for various AR-15 components
I want a 18-20 inch barrel.
You can schit in one hand, and "want" in the other, and see which one fills up the fastest.
What an absolutely brilliant reply to the question.
You can schit in one hand, and "want" in the other, and see which one fills up the fastest.[/quote]
HaHA! My dad used to tell us that. Haven't heard it in a while.
If you want absolute light weight get an AR handgun. Is all this light weight going to serve to make the rifle more shootable?
Build one up with custom carbon fiber parts, billet Ti lower, leave off unnecessary items like sling swivels, dust cover, any picatinny rails. You can make it light, but I think I would prefer my Colt 6920. It's plenty light enough, but with a little heft to allow it to settle enough to shoot well.
I've practiced ultra-light backpacking for the past decade. You can make things light, but there is a price in dollars and utility.
You can get near 6 with a 16 inch pencil barrel for the box stock gun but once you get a mount and optic on it, you back up there. Like the man said want in one hand and sxxt in the other in this case. In my life I have found want has nothing to do with reality and have adjusted my expectations to what can be reasonably done.
I suspect he would be able to get below 6 lb, and probably close to 5.5 lb, without scope and mount with a lightweight lower (I mentioned three possibilities in a previous post).
The Colt 6720 (16" pencil barrel flat top) has a list weight of 6.12 lb (6 lb, 2 oz) without magazine. Compared to the Colt 6720, one can go lower in weight by
- lightweight lower rather than standard aluminum lower (could save 3 or 4 oz there)
- having a lightweight low profile gas block instead of having a front sight (save 3 to 4 oz)
- not having a rear sight (a BUIS type sight comes on the 6720 - that's somewhere around 2 oz)
- not having a flash hider (2 oz reduction there - would partially offset the weight of a longer, 18 or 20", pencil barrel - a longer barrel would add 1 to 2 oz per inch of barrel length)
- handguard - lightweight carbon handguard rather than standard carbine handguard (probably save 2 oz)
- might also be able to save a little weight on the stock
I think you could net 10 oz reduction even if using an 18" barrel and not getting any weight reduction from a lighter stock compared to the Colt 6720. That is right at 5.5 lb without magazine, scope mount, and scope.
I would guess a 5 round magazine would weigh 2 to 3 oz empty, and five rounds would weigh about 2 oz. That has you around 5.8 lb loaded without optic. A lightweight sling would weigh around 2 to 4 oz, leaving you right at 6 lb with ammo and sling but no scope mount or scope. If you could find a few ounces from a lighter stock than comes on the Colt 6720, you could get down around 5.75 or less even with ammo and sling.
The issue of mount and scope is a related but separate issue. I don't know what the lightest scope mount system would be, but that would be a make or break decision for a lightweight build. His scope options also are going to be important for getting the lightest build. I would strongly consider a Leupold 6x36 (10 oz).
I already see that I can get there with a Fluted 18 inch with a plastic or carbon lower by visiting several different boards on the net.
As I said My goal is a 7 pound or less setup with scope and sling and 5 rounds of ammo.
As far as a handgun goes I hunted with a Handgun exclusively for 12 years.
Cobrad I like around 7 pounds total as that is still relatively easy to carry but also shoots just fine.And believe me after trying a lot of different firearms hunting in 43 years(I am 53)I know what I want.
I really don't think I need a dust cover or a forward assist for that matter for the purposes of hunting .
The price of utility and dollars is one that I am willing to pay.
jimmyp as you said often times reality and want often have very little to do with each other and( yea I have not only heard that old saying all my life but often said it myself)But in a lot of situations in life a person will find that with effort they can get what they want with enough time and effort as well.
This is one of those situations as I am finding out with my investigation of options available .
I asked the question because at the time I knew absolutely nothing about how to put together such a rig.
I see now that it can be done if a man is willing to part with the time and effort and money.
Thanks to everyone for your input and help.
Craig
Ramblin Razorback I like the way ya think !
Seems like you are actually doing some ciphering on the subject and not merely saying it cant be done.
Thanks for all your input !
Craig
PS your right I don't need a flash hider,forward assist or dust cover or a long handguard 0r anything more than a 10 round mag loaded with 5 rounds.
Craig
Well if you're gonna go bare bones, you might as well look at the JP low mass carrier and buffer assembly. Save another 5-6 ounces.
I'm a fan of light weight but a slave to doing it right. 7.5 lbs is doable without sacrificing reliabilty. Good luck.
The aforementioned Cav Arms lower, with an AR Gold fixed trigger, a Kifaruarms magnesium upper, and a Lothar Walther SS pencil barrel with a quality BCG and an Aimpoint Micro would be light done right.
Thanks for the info,I am going to check out everything you mentioned .
Thanks
Craig
Thanks to everyone ,this is gonna be fun.
I do intend to stay with the Leupold 4x though ,Both for weight(bout 10-11 ounces) and what I want the rifle for(hunting) .I like the Standard Duplex and would either go with a New one or a Compact M-8 matte with lightweight rings.
Craig
Not looking for 30 rounds into a 4 inch target @75 yards as fast as I can pull the trigger.Looking for accuracy for deer and coyotes and a certain criteria for weight and barrel length.
????????????
OK, 1/2" MOA at 100 yards! Is that better?
My point is that the 6720 R has a pencil barrel. Even when HOT it puts rounds on target.
It's a Accurate Rifle, Lightweight out of the box, so can be made lighter, Handles excellent, Short and balances.
You want to Coyote hunt and you don't care if a rifle can put 30 rounds into a 4" circle?
I was simply answering your thread for the type of rifle that would work. Done.
Six Gun is right about Colt barrels. Most of 'em will shoot. I've seen Marines with M4/ACOG's shoot some impressive groups at 100+ yd, using M855, which isn't overly accurate typically. A Colt is never a bad choice.
Sixgunhuntedr,I didn,t automaticly assume that a rifle that would put 30 rounds into 4 inches at 75 yards would neccasarily put 2 or 3 shots within .75 inches of point of aim at a 100 Yards.Where I deer hunt I may see a coyote at point blank to 400 yards or more (1.5 inch group).I don't think it is a given that because a rifle will do 4 inches at 75 yards for 30 rounds that it will .75 inches from poa at a 100 for 2 0r 3 .And it doesn,t have the 18 or 20 inch barrel I would really like to have.I appreciate the input you gave me but as I said at the beginning I was trying to meet a certain criteria.I was certainly not trying to offend anyone .
Take a knee,Thanks again.
Craig
I have one. I used a Cav Arms lower, an 18" takeoff barrel from a Remington VTR (.223), and a Clark's Custom carbon fibre float tube.
How do you like the cav lower?
Stripped or populared lower?
Weight and accuracy ?
Thanks
Craig
I like the cav lower especially with the 3# Timney skeletonized trigger. Don't know what a populared lower is. Weight was around 6.0# bare. Field ready it comes in at 7.2#, which consists of: Leupold see thru rings, a 1.5-6 Burris Signature scope with illuminated dot, a Hogue Picatinny cuff rail with Stoney Point bipod mount. I have not shot it but expect accuracy typical of the Remington R15 18" in .223 which is excellent.
Its the same thing as a populated one with just a few but new major differences.
They are just out but surprised you haven,t heard of them yet.
Never heard of either, and neither has Google. Google populated ar lower and populared ar lower and see what you get.
That's what you get for nitpicking at my misspelling !
Just pulling your leg.LOL
All in good spirit.
Craig
Kinda figured. A late April's Fool joke.
I sent my gold trigger back. The geisselle SSA -e was for me a better trigger, not impressed with gold.