What ammo would you use indoors if you wanted to stop a bad guy committing a home invasion? I'm thinking 223, 50gr JHP would stop a criminal and not over penetrate walls. It should be safe in an urban neighborhood where houses are 30 feet apart.

What say you?

Lately, I made the decision to pull the heavy bullets out of my Noveske and load it with a magazine full of 40-grain Ballistic Tips.

The 40s shoot about one-half inch higher at 50 yards, so they are fine for shooting if someone enters our bedroom ... or shooting down the hallway.

I've found the 40Ballistics to be quite frangible on prairie dogs and rock chucks. It's a fairly safe bet that their LACK of penetration would make them great for home defense work.

Hornady TAP ammo is loaded with nothing more than the Vmax in the lighter weights. Even as heavy as 60gr they have very minimal penetration and will fragment on interior walls.

Edit: to add a little more clarity I think they have plenty of terminal penetration, the 60gr TAP is my load of choice if I find need to use a .223 for HD.

I use the Federal [XM556FBIT3] factory loads, it's a 62 gr. Trophy Bonded Bearclaw bullet, tough little SOB's they are but they don't do a bit better than my handloads running the 55 gr. TSX's at 3100 fps with CFE-223 powder.

Both ornery little loads for their size.

Gunner

Wow, using substantial bullets inside a house.

That goes against most theory.

Of course I'll never admit to what can be in any of my mags at any given time, since I"m of the opinion that shot placement generally trumps most anything else.

You bet, I know where everything that's loved is in this house 24/7/365 and know where to shoot.

The 308 AR-10 with 130 gr. TTSX's is more of the same.

Gunner

[quote=gunner500]I use the Federal [XM556FBIT3] factory loads, it's a 62 gr. Trophy Bonded Bearclaw bullet, tough little SOB's they are but they don't do a bit better than my handloads running the 55 gr. TSX's at 3100 fps with CFE-223 powder.

Both ornery little loads for their size.


I believe that round is the same load as the Police "glass breaking round" used by many snipers...tough bullet

Yes, spose to be near the top at overcoming barriers, vel is only around 2800 fps from my 16" barreled mid-length AR, the 55 gr TSX hand loads, imho are tougher, and know they are more accurate in my rifle, as well as scooting along at 3100 fps.

Both bullets shoot very well in my 7 twist barrel.

Gunner

For people choosing light varmint bullets..... The bullet has to reach vitals from any angle first. 40/45/50/55 grain varmint bullets only penetrate a couple of inches. That is not enough for anything but perfectly facing chest shots on small individuals. The 60gr Hornady TAP only penetrates around 10 inches and is the ABSOLUTE minimum I would use.


When I lived in an apartment (and if I were extremely concerned about a single wall penetration) I had one mag loaded with 60gr TAP and another with a barrier round in a double mag carrier. Barrier rounds being TSX, SOST, TBBC, Fusion, etc.

All 5.56mm bullets penetrate less than pistol rounds and no one seems to worry too much about them.

My "house" gun has 77 gr NCC's in it. Not a good barrier load at all but they do penetrate about 12" in ballistic gel.

My barrier load would be the 55gr TSX's I have loaded for deer.

I'm just asking.. but when you say ALL 5.56 penetrate less than pistol rounds.

You are meaning barrier, FMJ, 62 green tip, etc??

Pistol bullets are one of the deepest perpetrators in a residential setting, no enough speed to reliably fragment. Even the fmj and green tip will tumble in building materials and tend to fragment quickly.

I have not seen results of any of the newer rounds that use the TSX or similar projectiles so I cannot comment on how they do.

For info here is the Hornady 75gr match in gel.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Af5Z-0yALr8&feature=em-subs_digest

My house gun is loaded with Factory Hornady 55 Grain Z-Max Ammo.
It's just basically the 55 gr V-Max with a green polymer tip instead of a red tip.

It just the Hornady Zombie load crap they were marketing last year that I bought on Closeout at Academy Sports back last November.
No Zombies here at the Ranch but they work damn well on Coyotes

Still hard to believe since I get lots of penetration from 75 and 77 bthps on game.

Nothing wrong with good old GI M193 for indoor use.

Just make sure you have hearing protection or your ears will bleed!

Absolutely correct, were I in a populated area, I'd take up a position of defense on one knee and fire up at the BG/BG's so long as said position didn't hinder vision/accessibility.

That would buy ya a bit of height on exiting projectiles entering other residences/walls, etc.

Gunner

The owner at my LGS said he had lots of people buy Hornady 75gr BTHP for deer and hog hunting. How does is hold up? Does it expand and stay together? Explode? Does it pass all the way through?

Most folks assume they are HP so work like one. They are not. They are ballistic HP.

Expands generaly like a soft point, or less, and penetrates.

Only issue is if the tip gets smashed shut before it can peel back a bit.

The jackets are target jackets not varmint jackets and are thicker than varmint jackets to hold up to speed and fast twist rates.

I don't suggest this, but I use em all the time and never think twice.

You can even head shoot, and have a caliber in and dime or so size out, vs shot with a ballistic tip and being nasty.

If anything you have less shock and less damage and less blood trail than you would expect.

Have never recovered one in game yet, have seen em in the dirt at the target though, but thats a hard impact.

I have two 20rd mags with Remington Cor-Loc's, better be enough...

I load with the same home packed 64 grain Winchester SP over H335 powder, that I use for whitetails and hogs.

62 grain Federal Fusion, wish I could find some more.

I am with you on that a 75 grain bonded bullet will shoot thru a 3 inch diam sapling OK

Well, pair of mags coupled you could have the best of both worlds.

Mag one: 40-60gr NBT/vmax ext.
Mag Two 64gr Bonded solid base/trophie bearclaw/60gr NPT/62gr M855 ect.

Nosler's 64 gr bonded soft point might be an interesting choice for short range. The tip is a "protected point" (slightly blunted) and I expect it would make a large impression on a bad guy.

But I still want to shoot a deer with a 220 Matchking out of a .300 Blackout, and see if the bullet really tumbles like buzzsaws...

there's some interesting video here:

http://www.brassfetcher.com/index_files/223RemingtonSlowMotionVideo.htm

and check out the .22-250, too

Thanks, Tex. The M193 expending most of it's energy in 10" of gel looks like the best for home defense out of all of those. I'd like to see M193 compared to SP or HP 223. I'm looking for something to stop a BG without injuring neighbors. Don't see a need to shoot through barriers in my own home.

I'm of the opinion that it'd be better to just pick one and rock on.

Put a bad guy standing sideways so his vitals need 10" of penetration and give me a magazine of bullets that penetrate 7". I'd bet my life on the fact that he'll end up dead. If I'm gonna shoot once, I'm gonna shoot twice, so put two in him and repeat as necessary. His vitals are gonna be reached pretty quick.

Pick on decent load, practice hitting, and don't worry about if you have the "right" mag in the gun at the right time.

This is word..^^^
I think muzzle flash should have a consideration as well....

I'd worry about muzzle flash and loud noise indoors long before I'd care about which bullet.