I am looking to get another upper for my colt AR.
I am guessing 6.8 SPC is the way to go. I think it will surpass the 6.5 grendle in terms of marketing and available ammo and brass.
anyone have any idea how much a 6.8 upper is going for or where to get one?
Have you given any thought to a 25 WSSM? That'll be my next upper.
Blammer,
On the cheap, Model 1 sales.
Better materials but more expensive would be Bravo CompanyUSA.
They have the prices on their website.
And from there PRI, and Barret for the really nice but pricey ones.
Best of luck!
E4E
thanks, anyone got one?
How do you like it?
A buddy has one from Bravo, I have a PRI.
They shoot about the same, except the Bravo upper is chrome lined......
PRI Carbon fiber float tubes are really nice though.
Am waiting on a readily available source of Brass and loaded ammo.
Rumors indicate this fall <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
Ok, who ever is replying with out registering, we cannot see your posts....
I haven't got one. Olympic Arms is developing two new cartridges that will put real and practical hunting power in the AR platform. They are going to be called the .308 Olympic Magnum, and the 7mm Olympic Magnum. Both are based on the WSSM case, and will fit in the confines of an AR magaazine. Performance will slightly exceed that of the .308Win, and 7-08Rem. If that doesn't pan out, I'm leaning toward a DPMS AR10 in .308. The DPMS AP4 16" carbine looks rather appealing for general fun, trouble calls, and hunting within 300 yards.
![[Linked Image]](http://www.dpmsinc.com/images/RFA2-308AP4.jpg)
http://www.dpmsinc.com/308_series.asp
Well, I guess I better wait to see what pans out the best.
what has cheap milsurp ammo to shoot, dies, brass, etc and good uppers that aren't specialty items
I guess the wait will be worth it..
The buy-in for an AR15 upper seems easier on the pocketbook up front. But, in the long run, having an AR10 that feeds on common and relatively inexpensive .308/7.62NATO is probably the wise way to go. That's the direction I'm leaning.
The AR10 family is just (or was??) to expensive for me to swallow. For that kind of money I can have more M1As..
Hunting power wise you already have the 458 socom and 50 beowulf. But for mid range targets past 200 they won't be effective.
I"m still leary of anything that Olympic puts out. Just have had bad luck with them a few times.
BTW there are folks chambering the 6.8 into 6mm which gives yet another option, depending on what caliber you desire or need.
Jeff
I wouldn't chamber the 6.8 to 6mm I would just neck up 223 to 6mm, then the only thing you would need would be an upper, mags should work the same.
the only thing is, what 6mm bullets are good?
hmmm, I wonder.... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
(in case you didn't know this is already a wildcat, and there are dies and load info available.)
I"m not sure what these folks call the 6mm/6.8 round. But I do know that its better on the target range than the 6/223 round is. That was the whole idea in making the round. Not for hunting. But since folks around this site hunt, I thought I'd mention the wildcat version.
I"ve many deer with 6mm bullets are some silly ranges too. So the 6mm works for deer, though it may not be ideal. For me almost any decent 100 grain bullet worked. I fidled around with 80 grain versions and got lucky and never lost a deer but did not like the destruction they gave.
Oh, BTW i use standard 20 round mags for my 50, and for the 6.5 grendel those 20s took a bit of tweaking but worked fine after the tweaking.
Still not sure what gives on the 7.62 x39 though.
Jeff
Holy Moly MM:
PANTHER� LONG RANGE 308
Barrel:
� 24� Bull barrel
� 416 Stainless steel
� 6 groove, right-handed 1x10 twist, button rifled
Chamber:
� .308 Winchester
Method of Operation:
� Gas operated rotating bolt
Weight:
� Empty - 11.28 lbs
That Ain't no Mountain Rifle!
BMT
Rost, The DPMS AR10s are priced very reasonably. actually less than the M1A. I saw a few on gunsamerica that were below $1000, NIB. GA Precision uses DPMS with full confidence as the basis of thier tuned GAP-AR10.
BMT, yeah the 24 incher is no lightweight, gotta be fairly muzzle-heavy too. Supposedly it is quite accurate, like sub moa.
The 16" carbine is reasonable at 8.5 lbs.
Blammer,
It's likely my post.
I have a PRI 6.8 upper.
My Buddy has a Bravo upper.
Both are absolutely solid.
Rumor is that ammo and brass will be available this fall.
For hunting derr sized critters, the 6.8 is in the same class as .300 Savage.
In other words, perfect.
I ain't gotta clue why my posts weren't apparent.
I thought I loged in.
Apologies.
E4E
Montana,
The best surplus 7.62 is now a thing of the past.
The AR-10 isin it's infancy.
The things are accurate thanks to attention to detail.
Reliability on the other hand......
I recently Mothballed alarge number of them.
And yes, all efforts were exhausted.
The Gang at Armalite are good people, from Mr. Westrom on down.
They just lack the BILLIONS of dollars invested in the AR, FAL, or the Millions invested in the M-14.
Give it time.
The gang in Geneseo will overcome the limitations of the AR-10.
I trust in the folks.
E4E
E4E,
Do the 6.8's use the standart AR mags? I have contemplated getting an upper in 6.8, but the cost is high. However, if it is as accurate as my current .223 upper (Bushmaster), I'd be happy. I reload EVERYTHING I shoot (except rimfire, of course <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />), and was wondering if the brass and data will be available for those rounds soon?
Thanks,
Brent
from my understanding you can use the 20 and 30 rnd mags, but you have to "cut" the spring and put a new follower in it. I also think you cannot use the aluminimunmm mags cause they will bulge. I don't know how true this is or have first hand experience.
Here's a 6.8 on the cheap
http://www.model1sales.com/item-det...;storeid=1&image=ustd2068rem.gif and here's one that comes with better recommendations
http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/Page4.html .
Neither are much costlier than a decent .223 upper from my understanding.
I've revised my consideration of the 25 WSSM upper to that of the 243 WSSM. The 25 requires seating the bullets deeper and precludes factory ammo. The 243 wssm does not have that limitation. I am a handloader but still believe that aspect makes the 243 WSSM more attractive. Also the builder recommends the 243 for my applications over the 25 and he has much more experience with both.
Mr. RickyD,
And what applications do you have in mind, if you would not mind my asking?
Best Wishes
RickyD,
I was unaware that the WSM OR WSSM's were even an option. Won't the pressure/recoil beat the AR to death using such "hopped up" ammo? I agree, the 243 WSSM would be a doosey for an all round hunting gun, especially on an AR frame. I'm just very wary of the wear and tare on a frame meant to only handle the recoil of the little .223!!! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />
I'd say he wants to hit someting far away really hard,,,,, <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
Mr. Windwalker,
Of course I don't mind. Primarily coyotes and deer. Pigs on occasion. Also punching paper. The 6.8 would do those duties too but it would not be as flat of a shooter as a good 6mm bullet. Anyway, I just like the idea of a AR with some muscle. Guess that's why we have 50 Beowulfs. I'll admit I'm re-considering the 6.8 too. Those uppers cost half of what the 243 WSSM's do.
ought6,
Only the WSSM's are available on an AR15 frame. The WSM's can be had on a AR10 frame. There are several other interesing cartridges that can be chambered for an AR15 upper such as the 6.5 Grendel and the 50 Beowulf and of course the 6.8. As far as beating the gun to death, I'm sure you could be right but I think the right builders know how to fit the appropriate components and gas system so it will work reliably for a reasonable round duration. Of course I would not consider one to have the longevity of a .223 but neither would I shoot one as much as a .223. In the final analysis, it may be just another symptom to a disease I am unwilling to cure just yet. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
My apologies for any hijacking of the thread.
na, I don't care
What cartridge is the Grendle basedon?
The grendel is a slightly higher capacity 6.5PPC
same case head as the 7.62X39 but not a sharply tapered case like the 7.62
I want a grendel AR for hunting,,,,,
Yep! The Grendel looks like a good one too! Here's some info on it from it's creator:
http://www.alexanderarms.com/website/id22.html
Ricky
Its funny that the actual creator is not mentioned and is not Bill Alexander...... But its still a super round for what its intended for.
Its a shame we can't buy a barrel only a bit cheaper though....
Jeff
My bad, then. Thanks for pointing that out, Jeff. I thought Alexander was the guy who brought the 6.5 Grendel out. It looks like they are about the only game in town offering uppers. They are pricey. So are the WSSM's. Economics make the 6.8 look better all the time. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
could you not have a grendel barrel made by someone else????
Arne B first developed the round didn't he???? he started off with a 6.5PPC
"could you not have a grendel barrel made by someone else????"
Maybe. I haven't looked for a couple months but none of the barrel sites I was checking showed they chambered for that caliber. I'm sure someone will begin chambering for it soon if they are not already. With calibers like that in the AR I would want the right builder putting it together, though.
Yes, anyone can fit and chamber a 6.5 barrel. You just have to have a 150+ buck reamer. And have AR knowledge. I'd trust John Holliger to one in a heartbeat. BUT a custom barrel isn't going to be cheap. Though you might get a better barrel than the Walthers they are using.
AND there may be a copyright on the design IE you'd have to get a 6.5 PPC instead.....Not at all sure on that one.
I know Arne did all the leg work and had guns built by Medesha first. Then took it to Bill. I fixed the mags on the Medesha guns to make them feed and test fired it at 600 yards. It was an unbelievable round. Fired a perfect score without correcting for wind at all. In conditions that should have netted something like a 196-197....
FWIW I do know that John Holliger is doing tubes in 6.8 necked to 6mm already.
Jeff
i tried for the 6.5 grendel and you have to buy the uppers. no one will cut a grendel reamer for you <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
the 6.8 necked up and down sounds like fun though.....
woofer
If you give specs for a 6ppc necked up to 6.5mm they'll cut a reamer. Just dont' ask for the Grendel.... (I believe IIRC there was no other major difference as I referred to the round as 6.5ppc for a long time till I was told different)
Jeff
To add- just went to JGS- they list a 6.5ppc reamer!
I just read somewhere that the 6.8 SPC is probably going to be obsolete in a few years. I disagree if this indeed becomes the military standard.
Do y'all think there is any chance this is a passing fad?
E4E will disagree but the military folks I have talked with all think the 6.8 is a joke. Most are Spec Op type and say the 223 with 77s is just fine and if you need more than that either learn to shoot or pickup an M14 or bolt gun.(both still in inventory as our state team civilian rifle team trained a bunch of infantry in the use of the M14 a year or two back)
I just don't care that much for the round. I like the Grendel but then again I'm biased as I shot it in its infancy for some testing and it was super as a 6.5PPC round.
The only real way to tell is let time pass though!!
It would take a big revamp to switch calibers and weapons but it was done not that long ago to go to a 9mm(which the folks I talk to say is about worthless compared to the 45)
And of course 6.8 is not a nato round so compatability becomes an issue(probably a big reason in adopting the beretta anyway)
Just my take on things.
Jeff
so why is NATO important.... and that we conform to using their milspec ammo types?
Not being a smart alec as I sometimes am, but I honestly don't know.
NATO are our " allies" and in a time of conflict we can interchange ammo as we may be on the lines with them. example ww2. On the lines with brits they shot 303- we shot 06. Not swappable.
Its one reason you think a LOT about your US survival weapon-- if the SHTF here ever - NO is prime example of small scale what could happen- then whats most common etc....22lr is a good example
Jeff
Rost,
The MK262 is a step forward.
I never intended to allude to the 6.8 being viable in the political arena that is NATO.
Your Military contacts observations mirror mine.
From running both I gotta agree.
The difference is slight.
The 6.8 might be a good Deer cartridge however, and allow some flexibility.
Availability of ammo for the 6.8 is troublesome at best.
There are rumors of things getting better in supply, in that regard, but even Big Green has backed off.
Possibly Pederson had the answer all along.
Keep safe!
E4E
What answer did Pederson have?
The 276 Pederson intermediate sized cartridge.
Actually, if you go back to the 1920s, you'll find that the US Army used a group of modified Remington 8 automatics, fitted with peepsight and different handguards, to test the concept of a semi-automatic main battle rifle. Ballistically, the 25 Remington isn't too far removed from the 6.8 SPC.
Jeff
I would like to get a 6.8 flat top upper for my M4 type Bushmaster. My eleven year old son handles this rifle so well with the stock collapsed it fits him just right. He can really hammer targets 50 and 100 yards away. I believe if we swap out uppers for the 6.8, it would make a good deer rifle for him. I'm hoping Bushmaster will introduce this some time before next years season, if not I would consider other makes.
IIRC:
Midway USA has these items.
Good luck,
BMT
it would make a good deer rifle for him
If .22 centerfires are legal for deer in your state, using a Nosler Partition or the new heavier Barnes TSX would also make a good deer gun for him.
4570,
Holler at Bravocompanyusa. com
Paul is backlogged, but will be even more so in the future, now that Hornady is offering factory loads.
Should mount up on your bushy lower with no issues.
Keep corrupting the kid!
It is appreciated!
Keep safe!
E4E
I will keep corrupting him. He's getting a Winchester 1300 20 gauge youth shotgun and a box of clay pigeons for christmas. He thinks it's pretty cool telling his friends he shoots that Bushmaster, as well as a lot of other guns. I will check on Bravo Company USA. Thanks.