Hey Guys,

I am waaaay behind in having any working knowledge on tactical arms. I tend to gravitate toward hunting guns. I am just wondering how two ARs can look so much alike but be four to six hundred dollars apart in price. I had a guy tell me today that the difference is in barrel construction, bolt quality and receiver fit. I have had others say the differences are very slight. What's up with this? No one wants to buy a gun that will be a piece of crap in a couple years and no one wants to pay a bunch for a gun that is marginally better than one that is of significantly less in cost. Can someone clear this up for me?

The same way two cars can look so much alike and be of such different quality. Or houses. Or power tools. Heck, even people look a lot alike and consist of vastly different levels of quality. In a bit some people are gonna come along and tell you that there's not a difference. They're wrong. Just like they would be if they said the same thing about houses or power tools.

Some features are for quality (barrel and bolt steel, proper staking, machining tolerances). Some features are for convenience (ambi controls, upgraded triggers). Some features are for style (different stocks and colors). And some are personal preference (length of handguards, sights). You've gotta figure out what's important to you and go from there. If you're planning on shooting dirt clods twice a year, even the quality parts can be skimped on.

Somebody's gonna come along ranting about mil-spec. Probably a guy who will rave about Rock River, just a hunch. If somebody says you do OR don't have to have mil-spec, you can probably ignore them. Figure out how the specs will benefit or hinder you and make an informed decision.

And choose a gun that suits what you'll use it for. Decide what that is and build or buy from there. What do you want to do with it? What will you actually do with it? How often will you do that? Until you honestly answer those questions, you can't decide what features you need.

a fun plinking/dirt clod busting gun can be done cheap if you dont want a bunch of fancy accessories.....im about a grand into ours with a $170 optic.....havent tested it for absolute accuracy yet but its minute of milk jug with the cheapest ammo i could find using a red dot sight

my Dad always said, "buy the best tools that you can afford". You will never regret it.

go back and read that 10000 round test and how loose the Bushmaster barrels were on the guns.

I started with a DPMS,than a Bushmaster,nothing seemed solid with them,nothing broken just didn't have any smiles to it,then I got an Armalite,it felt right,solid,tight but smooth.I've used it to shoot close-quarter drills and 300 yard steel.Only thing done to it was to hang a Leupold 1.5-5x in a RR mount....
I think people look at how much they can hang on it and not the base pachage enough.My Armalite was about $1100 with all the Magpul furiture already on it....

Read this when getting product reviews...


And read this.....
http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/8597148/1

I agree, besides the old "Just buy a Colt 6920" line gets old. especially after you buy.....a Colt 6920

What kind of gun are you looking at? If I was a LEO Or had some interest in the gun as a primary defense weapon then I would buy a gun like a colt or DD that specializes in tactical or defense type applications. I have found that these chrome lined barrels are good enough for deer/pig hunting where I hunt. These barrels will produce under a MOA 3 shot groups. If your looking primarily for a varmint heavy barrel gun for use primarily as a hobby gun there are many venders that can provide a decent gun.

Agreed - defining the need/task for the rifle will help set the bar for the investment into it.

Plinker - entry level price is probably OK, you are not going to crap at the price, and if it's not your cup of tea, it can go.

Home Defense - and maybe attending a tactical rifle class, spend a bit more on the rifle, the quality, and the tailoring to your needs.

Competition - pull up a chair, there are a bunch of experienced match shooters on here. I learn soething new every week from reading the posts. Again, 500 meter paper vs 3-gun matches generates a laundrey list of options, parts, and prices.

Daily use/carry - what's your life worth, and how likely are you to need it when it counts? Not the time to find out that the bargain rifle was not the best option.

And on the other hand.. not many dis CLE, and a friend had a CLE upper show up to his house brand new wiht a loose barrel...

Sometimes you never know.

RE looks... its not the looks... its the parts...

I have a Frankenstein NTIT gun.... its 2 different color lower and upper, but all the parts in it are premo.... its a tack driver at 600 beyond most folks expectations when they see it.

For what its worth, its my opinion unless you have something specific in mind, dang near any gun parted together or any brand will do 95% of what most might like it to do. These days.

If you have specific demands, then you are better off still, IMHO to have one built to your needs.

Not much in between IMHO.

Sales hype. PSA put together a torture test vid like Daniel Defense. PSA rifles are about 1/2 a DD gun. They can take the abuse. I have a S&W M&P Sport that runs like a Swiss watch.
I have a Mega Arms lower with PSA upper that shoots better than I do.
Like was posted earlier, if you have a specific need like comp, or high volume training, maybe spend the DD/BCM/Colt type money.

The stuff that separates one from another often isn't visible, and won't be seen until you put some rounds downrange.

For example, I had a PSA upper that started double feeding after about 900 rounds. The extractor spring didn't have an insert and was about a coil shorter than it needed to be. It worked fine for a while, but gave up way too early and at the worst possible time.

If your S&W is like mine, it's probably over gassed. It'll run so good because it's got more gas keeping things moving than what it needs. Which keeps it running, but will also wear out your bolt quicker and make it rougher shooting than it needs to be.

$10.00 says a DD chromed barrel will out shoot a PSA-FN barrel.

the thing is most guys are lucky to ever put more than 300 rounds through their ar 15. if your a guy like blue you shoot enough to be particular about your ar 15 parts. For your average guy who is lucky to ever put 300 rounds through a gun a $450 PSA parts gun is good enough for them.

most AR 15 parts are made by only a handful of companies then the parts are private labeled. So for me it comes down to the barrel first and fore most. Then I make sure my bolt is made out of carpenter 158 or 9310 alloy, which nearly all of them are unless it is some rare blow out price. The thing it comes down to me is accessories, I like midwest free float tubes, geissele triggers and some other nuance items. I am sure a guy like blue wants stuff on his gun that suits his taste. For the average guy buying a low budget gun to start with and learning what they want on the gun is a great way to start. Then as you learn your preferences build something later that has everything you want. AR 15's are erector sets it really just comes down to what you want and what you want the gun to do. my point is if you shoot enough to ever need a gun with the high quailty stuff on it you will also have your preferences on other things as well and fit into the build it yourself category.

Absolutely.

Doubtful. The PSA is likely to be overgassed but has better steel, thicker chrome and a tapered bore. It's been observed by many that the FN made barrels outshoot and outlast the DD barrels.

This is a wise post
I am not an expert but I have a few ARs from A to Z in value/quality
I think its like a race car
This one is fun and runs well but to get of work or cash to the top end of performance

I often wonder is my POF worth 4 times what my DPMS? Pretty sure my POF is not worth twice what my 6920 is
but in all fairness its a diffrent gun

I have always been impressed with a guy in the duck blind that can kill ducks with an 870 while sitting next to a guy bragging about his 1000K gun

Dont get me wrong is nothig wrong with having shiney cool stuff

Hank

It's been observed by many! Classic internet crapolla. I had a Noveske that they replaced the FN chrome lined barrel on telling me all was good. Two barrels one no better than the other. I sold it.

Show some proof other than "it's been observed by many"

Hell, I'll put 300 rounds through an AR15 in an afternoon. Is there something wrong with me? :-)

LaRue...............http://www.laruetactical.com/

The PSA FN barrels (and "Milspec" guns) that I've seen have ran perfectly and shot as well as the average Colt barrels on issued M4's. That is, once free floated around 1.25 to 2 MOA for 10round groups with issued MK262 MOD1 77gr.


I've seen a bunch of the higher end PSA guns and they have all demonstrated normal reliability and accuracy. I am the king of hobby gun haters, but in my experience PSA's "Milspec" line is good to go. As far as extractor springs and inserts go.... They all get a Crane spring and insert upgrade, and an H2 buffer regardless.

Before I'd pay LaRue type rates, I'd have one built, get exactly what I want and probably a better gun, for the same or less money.

I"m not into paying for names, or paying more so I can get a "free" cap, bottle opener, seasoning packet etc.

Just my personal opinion there.

Have not seen any of their guns that were bad.

I've had two AR barrels that were not very accurate - 3-4" at 100 yards. One Armalite from the late 90's, one CMMG. 3 other Armalites were good to excellent. One Daniel and one Colt that are excellent, one Daniel that needs further testing. I've seen a couple of other Daniels that were excellent.

The only malfunctions were a weak extractor spring on an AR10, which was not hard to fix.

Based on those results, I lean toward the medium to higher end stuff, but I am skeptical if the HK's, LWRC's, LaRue's, etc, really buy you that much more performance.

I'll second that. I shoot around a lot of LaRue rifles and have used them a bit myself. And I haven't seen a bad one. But for their price and the wait you can build something just as good that'll be exactly what you want.

I think if you look in depth at two AR-15's that are $600 difference in price you'll find that there are quite a few differences between the guns, and that is what accounts for the difference in price.

If you're looking at a generic semi auto M4 style AR, you are not going to find a $600 difference in price.



Some manufacturers will put a two stage trigger, and milspec barrel and bcg that will account for a higher price than others, but expect a price difference of $200-300 tops.

Where the $600 difference comes into play is "upgrades". If you put on a different stock, free float the hand guard, go with a match grade barrel, etc, that is what causes an AR-15 to cost over $1500 and up.

I've had an Armalite, RRA, Colt and self built AR-15 with both a YHM and self assembled upper. All have run aluminum GI mags, and every single one of them has gone bang they were loaded and I pulled the trigger. I've run somewhere between several hundred and over 1000 rounds through each of those guns. All handloads.

Honestly I'd say until you buy an AR-15 and run a few hundred rounds through it you won't know what you do and don't like in an AR-15. I've had to go through several iterations to figure out what I like in an AR-15, so I'd recommend just getting something to start out with and planning on upgrading in the future. And with the upgrade in mind, I'd say an M4 style should be easy enough to sell down the road.

THIS IS THE TRUTH!!! this is exactly what I tell my friends who ask what should I put on an ar 15. Should I buy that stuff thats on your gun to make mine cool?? I tell them shoot what you got and see what you want to change. I personally am a trigger snob I have got to have a good trigger in my gun no matter how its configured. but thats just me. I have other things I want too.

Barrels wear out, springs get weak. At some point they will need replaced. Unless you absolutely demand 1/2" MOA for 10,000 rounds, I'd spend my money on the best bolt and carrier you can afford. kwg

I still am willing to put $10 on my current penciled barrel DD gun over a PSA.