Everyone may have a different opinion on a "thoroughbred"...but if cost wasn't a factor and you were going to put together the best AR for yourself (may have a gunsmith do work) what parts would you use. ie. lower, upper, trigger, barrel, length of barrel, stock...etc.

I'd build an M1-A. . . . (wink)

BMT

when you say "thoroughbred"; what are you wanting? It refers to a horse who can run fast, I think. If that's what you want, a fast and accurate AR15; then spend the money on the upper and buy a good lower. www.insightshootingsystemsinc.com makes a fantastic Tac.20 upper if you want speed. Or an accurate 223 or an accurate and speedy 223A.I. I think he does others as well. Charles

they are long on heavy but the 2 JP enterprises 24" barrel match ar's i have seen are very cool and well done. I am very happy with my custom spec'd LMT and know there are many options to the black gun loonies to "custom fit" there gun to themselves

Depending on what you are after you could buy assembled, buy it in upper and lower or generally I take a gunsmith that does all the barrel work and chambering themselves. Thats really the only true custom gun. All others are just parted together(which any well trained monkey including myself, with a few correct tools and gauges, can assemble)

Tell what you are after and what for and you can get better more precise answers.

Jeff

For me, I try to do things right the first time. And only afterwards discover that I should have done things differently <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />. I�ve had the AR bug for awhile and want to put one together�or more accurately to have a good smith fine tune it. Frankly, I don�t feel I know enough to know what I want. I have to go into this with the mindset to do it right the first time. If trigger �A� is better then trigger �B� then I want trigger �A�. I expect the best parts to cost the most, and I can�t afford to go cheap and do this twice. I�m not looking to buy/build an econo-gun. Best part/components if I can. If things are 6 of one and � dozen of the other�ok no problem, price will dictate. But overall I want performance to dictate not cost.

What I want as of now�and things may change as I get educated.

Very Accurate
Extremely Reliable
Great trigger
Adjustable stock
Tactical Scope (I have a much better idea here)
Bipod

Used mainly for lots of range work, also for ground squirrels and rabbits

I appreciate the help.

Serious plug for White Oak Armament. I don't have a dime involved with them, just that they build all my competition guns. And they listen. When I wanted a smaller gas port to cover some other issues it was done correctly. No questions etc... Yet they always have good advice. They are top ranked highpower competitors and varmint shooters. I think you'll be very happy if you drop them a line

john@whiteoakarmament.com

should get you to John Holliger if I remember the mail correct.

Just got a 6mm WOA upper in from them to test on deer. With a slighty used 6mm barrel(remember this is a test project) the first group out of the gun at 100 yards off bags and a guessed at load with 85 tsx was .5 inches.

John won't touch bad parts, if they don't meet spec and his own specs he has his own parts made to spec. Very picky.
Best upper I had from him had a hummer barrel and shot quite a few 5 shot groups at 600 with a scope of 1.5 inches give or take a few tenths. He also won't sell you what wont' work or what you don't need-- reference their website joke about rails, lights bla bla bla stuff.

Jeff

I'll second what Jeff is saying about WOA. I was in the same position not too long ago, took Jeff's advice and bought a comlete upper and a tuned two stage RRA match trigger from WOA. That upper is a tack driver for sure. I couldn't be happier

tlfw: I still think you should check out Lee Mosher at www.insightshootingsystemsinc.com and talk with him. If you email him, he will call you if you leave a #. More info is not a bad thing! He's built me one and is building me another. He is what I think you are looking for in a gunmaker. Charles

If you're interested in who's building AR's and selling the barrels and other parts to those that are winning at one of the most demanding sports AR's are used in, I'll throw in another vote for John Holliger at White Oak Precision and White Oak Armament.

He's the guy that helped pioneer making the AR a true 1000 yard platform. Jeff is also being a little modest. He outshot G David Tubb at 600yds in a match with an Upper by...White Oak...and Tubb what shooting a Match Rifle unrestricted in caliber...while Jeff shot a Service Rifle AR.

If you pay attention to who's building for and proviiding the critical parts for the folk that are winning with an AR in what's probably the most demanding sport the AR is used in...Highpower Rifle, then you really need to be looking at John Holliger.

He's the one that pioneered making the AR a true 1000yd platform. The list of folk that have won stuff at the Nationals with White Oak is a long one and getting longer. Including, John Scandale (Farr Trophy-1000yds with Service Rifle), John Sylvester (Nathan Hale Trophy, Alice Bull Trophy), Alonda Roy (Alice Bull, High Woman Service Rifle), Konrad Powers (Nathan Hale Trophy), John Holliger (Civilian Service Rifle Champion) and the list goes on...oh yeah...Jeff is being a bit modest. He shot a White Oak Service Rifle configured AR to beat G David Tubb at 600yds in a match a few years back when he was helping shake down the 6.5 twist White Oak Project.

http://whiteoakprecision.com/
http://whiteoakprecision.com/

I think it's also worth noting that despite the fact that John's very popular and very busy he does two things that are pretty novel in the custom rifle world. He'll give you a good delivery date and pretty well stick to it, and he charges good prices for what you're getting.

Then there's the aspect of tapping one of the true innovators in AR's. Not crap that someone makes as tourist traps, but stuff that really makes the AR shoot better and shoot easier. Some of his concepts and design projects are:
6.5 twist 223 barrel, pinned rear sights, 20MOA Scope Base with forward extension, Adjustable Buttplate.

Need any more info on who to tap?

I just re-read your criteria and here's more info;
Best Trigger - the Geissele Trigger (this is the new trigger that everyone in Highpower is raving about);


Best Adjustable Buttstock - White Oak Precision;

Nice to see ya here Chris!! Could not have stated anything any better. Yet on hunting sites folks are not aware of whats going on out there at the cutting edge and wont' believe someone without 5K posts etc... Thanks for sharing!

Jeff

Don't be too sure of that, Jeff! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> Lots of us look to content and not the count-o-meter for credibilty. Yours, E4E's and a few others are beyond question and your welcome of Chris puts him high on my list of must read posts already. I, on the other hand, have lots of posts but am just learning this AR thing. And being taught by some of the best!


Glad you came by Chris. I hope to see lots more of you! It's a great site only because of the vast majority of great guys posting here. Hope you come to believe that too!


Rick

Chris,
Wow! You've been a member for quite some time! You'd be a great candidate for the longest lurker award............... if there was one! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />. Don't be a stranger! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Rick

Thanks for the welcome guys, and thanks for the instant credibility that's rubbed off from Jeff onto me. I'll try to share my thoughts when I think it will help.

Rick I appreciate the thoughts. Of course I'm not sure how it applies since I didn't have a clue on the 500 SW abilities....

But in fairness ARs I know inside and out, the pistols like that, well a 329 PD is as close as I get.

jeff

I've been setting on a stripped receiver for several months now. When you guys get it figured out let me know. Thanks kwg

Hey Charlie-- i also have an Insight Sooting Systems AR in .223 AI, and just love it. I actually live around the corner from Lee, and wrote an article on the use of his AR's for coyote hunting in Varmint Hunter Magazine couple yrs. ago.

He sure builds nice stuff, and some of the 500 yd. gps. u see on that site were fired from one of my hunting partners AR's he built. He's gotta be 1 of the best in the business, and he's been doing it longer than most. Trying to get him on the WSSM kick too. No doubt he'll be working with them soon.

Looked at some of those 300 and 500 yard groups. Not bad at all. I know I've never had an upper from John either that won't shoot a 1.5 inch 10 shot group at 300 or a group of under 4 inches for 5 shots at 600 yards. Most do a bit better.

Looks like both smiths do decent work. I'm intrigued about the 204 ruger from WOA though-- match barrel and only 750 or so for the upper. seems like a great deal and a flat fast round.

.......been havin' some similar thoughts myself! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

What barrel length are you thinking of?

Well, the way I figure it all, gotta pay off the 6mm WOA first. Then go to the 204 since its all factory now. And since I'd want this one to be varminter for sure(IE 22-250 semi basically) then i'd go for a 26 inch tube. Assuming thats not too long and won't slow teh bullet down(I doubt that until you pass 32 inches but I'm not in the know of the 204 at all)

Hey-- did you see that 900+ yard prairie dog on the White Oak Precision sight!! Anything like thats luck anyway, but still its educated luck. Todd ain't a bad shot in competition to start with. But to have a 5 inch 1000 yard gun, well thats a good solid one no doubt,and a PD is smaller than that...

Jeff

The 26" 204 would be the one I'd be leaning towards too. I can't see it losing anything by 26 but I would like to know how much is gained across the range of .20 bullets to see if the long tube is worth the weight and extra length.

Crazy long shots on PD's can be dangerous to my barrels! If the pd can't figure it out and sticks around long enough, I'll shoot till I get him or all the guns could fry eggs. Snipin's fun!

To SSCoyote; glad to hear someone else loves Lee's work ! I can hardly wait to get my 20Tac. I did just buy a JARD trigger and will be getting two more pull wt. springs; Have a 3 lb. and am getting 1 1/2 and 2lb. If I can keep my finger off it , the 1 1/2 ought to be a tack driving set up ! May use it only at the range and single shot. But it will show what the gun can do with a better trigger. Dean at JARD says it will be safe; but if yer finger lingers too long..you know that spells d.o.u.b.l.e!
BTW, those looking at the 204 Ruger in the AR need to know about OAL in the mags. A better choice if you reload is the 20 TAC. Charles

Mr. Charlie358,
We have the 2lb spring in our .50cal Beowulf and have never experienced a double. We are super happy with the JARD trigger.
Best Wishes

Best AR barrels today are being made by Krieger and Broughton. Geissele trigger seems to be the hot setup these days, but Millazzo is still great if you can get one. Use a scope base with the down angle built into it so your scope won't use all it's adjustment getting to 600. Stay away from Olympic receivers and uppers. Most others are all o.k. Watch buttstocks. Some have to have bolt carrier handle installed in ejection port to work properly. It is actually easy to put one together yourself with ordinary tools. If it's your first try, you may want to go to one of the AR smiths for a build, or go to AR15.com for help if you feel confident enough to do it yourself.

Fast Ed

Fast Ed

Can you expand on this statement a bit? What's the deal with Olympic?

Thanks
firstshot
--------------------------------------
Make your first shot count!

When was the last time Milazzo delivered? And the Geisselle has it beat hands down anyway. Prior to that it was the RRA as the jewel was junk. Not too familiar with SS triggers.

Broughton- another good barrel. But saying Krieger and broughton are it is pretty narrow. Leaves out a bunch of top line match grade barrels.

I would be interested in that answer as well. Olympic, like all the others, have their issues but I have used Oly, DPMS, ArmaLite, Bushmaster, Rock River, Stag, pretty much all of them and certainly have not found Oly to be on the bottom. Oly has gotten a bad rap from all ot the "kits" that they have sold, but they certainly don't have the market cornered on problems. There are brands out there that I would avoid but Oly isn't one of them.