Kel-Tec Sub 2000 Gen 2 Glock 19 - 09/22/17
I didn’t know where else to post this on 24HCF, but here goes anyway.
I had been wanting to try out a Kel-Tec Sub 2000 Gen 2 9mm for quite some time, but they have been unavailable locally. I just missed one at a local mom and pop store, and got on the waiting list for one at $399. (The have had a .40 S&W Glock magazine version on the shelf for months at the same price.) A couple of weeks ago, I walked into the local Sportsman’s Warehouse and found one for $459. As a typical American, I paid the premium to get it now. After shooting it, I will stay on the waiting list at the mom and pop store. (Dollar cost averaging makes sense, right?)
I bought the Glock 19 magazine version. There is a Glock 17 version, which has a slightly longer pistol grip. I bought the 19 version because I am close to Colorado and don’t want to have to deal with any magazine capacity BS. I carry a Glock 19 regularly and have loaded magazines for it all over the place. The grip is fine for me, but someone with large hands may want the Glock 17 version.
I read some negative reviews about the gun on one thread here, and was not expecting much. Yes, the trigger is mush, although I have become more familiar with it. Yes, getting a good cheek weld on the “receiver” takes some practice. (What we would call a buffer tube on an AR15 has the serial number on it.) The front sight is not like a traditional AR15 front sight in that I can’t center it in the rear peep. For me, it’s more like putting it in the bottom third of the rear peep. (Like using my Aimpoint Comp M3 in a Larue AR15 mount as a faux ghost ring with an AR15 front sight.) The safety is a little awkward compared to an AR15 safety. The bolt doesn’t hold open after the last round is fired.
With the negative stuff out of the way, this gun is a hoot. It weighs 4.25 pounds, has an overall length of 29.5 inches open with the stock in its shortest position, or 16.5 inches folded. When folded it easily fits in a nylon laptop bag. I could hide it under the seat of my truck in a manner that would make it difficult for a casual thief to find it. Recoil is negligible with my 115 grain handloads and Speer 124 grain standard velocity Gold Dots.
How does it shoot? Well, I am not fully finished testing it. It took a while for me to figure out the sights. While I was sighting my hunting rifle yesterday at 200 yards prone, I threw 3 rounds downrange with the Sub 2000 using Kentucky elevation (new term). I was surprised to hit the paper. One of the hits likely would have been a peripheral hit on a human torso. It was nothing to write home about, but I can improve. This morning, I shot it at 50 and 100 yards using a sloppy bench technique, each time using 3 of my 115 grain handloads (1070 MV out of Glock 19) and 3 factory Speer 124 Gold Dots (1120 MV out of Glock 19). I was surprised that the groups were relatively close. I wouldn’t have much trouble on a coyote at 50, but 100 would take a little more time. The biggest hindrances are the size of the front sight pin and figuring out both the elevation and the placement of the front sight pin in the peep. The last two are things that I can figure out.
I am sure that it would work better for me with a dot sight, but adding one prevents folding the gun unless you buy a funky Midwest Industries deal that swivels out of the way for folding the gun and requires the bolt to be retracted. That seems to detract from the handiness, and the cost of the mount and dot sight is approximately $230.
Anyway, for a beater that doesn’t weigh much and folds in two and only costs 2 cents more per round to shoot than .22 LR, it’s kinda fun. I doubt you would lose much money on it if you didn’t like it. If the other one shows up at the gun store for the cheaper price, I probably will buy it and throw it at the cabin.
I will update this thread after I have a bunch more rounds through it or if anything weird happens with the gun.
Sorry, I don’t do pics on this forum. But, it looks like all the other Gen 2 models that you see on the web.
Edited to add: Left handed people may find that the magazine release interferes with their grip and/or risks inadvertent release.
I had been wanting to try out a Kel-Tec Sub 2000 Gen 2 9mm for quite some time, but they have been unavailable locally. I just missed one at a local mom and pop store, and got on the waiting list for one at $399. (The have had a .40 S&W Glock magazine version on the shelf for months at the same price.) A couple of weeks ago, I walked into the local Sportsman’s Warehouse and found one for $459. As a typical American, I paid the premium to get it now. After shooting it, I will stay on the waiting list at the mom and pop store. (Dollar cost averaging makes sense, right?)
I bought the Glock 19 magazine version. There is a Glock 17 version, which has a slightly longer pistol grip. I bought the 19 version because I am close to Colorado and don’t want to have to deal with any magazine capacity BS. I carry a Glock 19 regularly and have loaded magazines for it all over the place. The grip is fine for me, but someone with large hands may want the Glock 17 version.
I read some negative reviews about the gun on one thread here, and was not expecting much. Yes, the trigger is mush, although I have become more familiar with it. Yes, getting a good cheek weld on the “receiver” takes some practice. (What we would call a buffer tube on an AR15 has the serial number on it.) The front sight is not like a traditional AR15 front sight in that I can’t center it in the rear peep. For me, it’s more like putting it in the bottom third of the rear peep. (Like using my Aimpoint Comp M3 in a Larue AR15 mount as a faux ghost ring with an AR15 front sight.) The safety is a little awkward compared to an AR15 safety. The bolt doesn’t hold open after the last round is fired.
With the negative stuff out of the way, this gun is a hoot. It weighs 4.25 pounds, has an overall length of 29.5 inches open with the stock in its shortest position, or 16.5 inches folded. When folded it easily fits in a nylon laptop bag. I could hide it under the seat of my truck in a manner that would make it difficult for a casual thief to find it. Recoil is negligible with my 115 grain handloads and Speer 124 grain standard velocity Gold Dots.
How does it shoot? Well, I am not fully finished testing it. It took a while for me to figure out the sights. While I was sighting my hunting rifle yesterday at 200 yards prone, I threw 3 rounds downrange with the Sub 2000 using Kentucky elevation (new term). I was surprised to hit the paper. One of the hits likely would have been a peripheral hit on a human torso. It was nothing to write home about, but I can improve. This morning, I shot it at 50 and 100 yards using a sloppy bench technique, each time using 3 of my 115 grain handloads (1070 MV out of Glock 19) and 3 factory Speer 124 Gold Dots (1120 MV out of Glock 19). I was surprised that the groups were relatively close. I wouldn’t have much trouble on a coyote at 50, but 100 would take a little more time. The biggest hindrances are the size of the front sight pin and figuring out both the elevation and the placement of the front sight pin in the peep. The last two are things that I can figure out.
I am sure that it would work better for me with a dot sight, but adding one prevents folding the gun unless you buy a funky Midwest Industries deal that swivels out of the way for folding the gun and requires the bolt to be retracted. That seems to detract from the handiness, and the cost of the mount and dot sight is approximately $230.
Anyway, for a beater that doesn’t weigh much and folds in two and only costs 2 cents more per round to shoot than .22 LR, it’s kinda fun. I doubt you would lose much money on it if you didn’t like it. If the other one shows up at the gun store for the cheaper price, I probably will buy it and throw it at the cabin.
I will update this thread after I have a bunch more rounds through it or if anything weird happens with the gun.
Sorry, I don’t do pics on this forum. But, it looks like all the other Gen 2 models that you see on the web.
Edited to add: Left handed people may find that the magazine release interferes with their grip and/or risks inadvertent release.