How does PSA afford to sell an upper so cheaply? What if any corners are they cutting?

They are not top tier, and huge volume.
Their better stuff is more expensive, but still cheap.

It's all about the volume. One of the local shops used to buy from one of the same barrel manufacturers as PSA. PSA buy in such volume that we can buy from them for less then the small shops can buy from the manufacturer.

I've had very good luck with their uppers in the past. Very inexpensive one's shooting well under MOA.

10 shots, all day every day?..............................but only if you do your part?

MM

I would chance an upper in 5.56 with an FN barrel on it but the more exotic calibers, no.

[img]http://s427.photobucket.com/user/Antelope_Sniper/media/20170426_065050.jpg.html?sort=3&o=1[/img]

100 yards.

3 on the left are PSA freedom SS with Iron sights.
3 on the right are PSA FN CHF chrome lined light profile with a 10x.


This is my 10.5" Odin pistol build.

200 yards with iron sights:

[img]http://s427.photobucket.com/user/Antelope_Sniper/media/20170530_185325.jpg.html?sort=3&o=0[/img]


The load was 27.5gr Mil Surplus Bl(c)2,
50gr Nosler dogtown HP
CCI 450
Mixed range brass.

Well.......................... alright then.


The Internet Commando's Nephew




MM

Thank you MontanaMan! I had not read Billy's saga before this, I had read other discussions of the accuracy indications of 3 shot groups, but this one was the best. I have one gas gun that will do 2 10 shot groups at 100 at about 1 MOA its a Noveske 18 inch barreled LW SS. With one load for sure the 55 grain factory Vmax it will shoot MOA for 20 shots, it also does well with the 69 grain WW match but I have not tried to enter that load in the competition IIRC.

And...I am as guilty as the next person of shooting 10 groups, finding 2-3 5 shot groups under an inch and "being happy". I think we all want to "believe" but sadly reality is harsh and when the chips are down its better that you had accepted reality during "practice" than discovering it at the last minute. I am happy most times with a 2-3 MOA chrome lined DD barrel that is pretty consistent with many forms of "practice ammo"

There are really lots of 3-shot wonders that are MOA guns; not many can make the leap to 10 shots being MOA when taking into account the gun/scope, ammo & shooter limitations or capabilities........................

Surely not intending to denigrate anyone or their equipment, just injecting a little perspective & I surely don't have a problem with anyone saying that they have a 3-shot MOA gun, just those that say all their guns are MOA, all day long & don't add the rest of the qualifiers, i.e., they are only counting 3-shot groups.

MM

Truth is you can get a lot done with even a 2 MOA gun.

However, I still like em better <1 MOA.

interestingly I never placed at Perry when I had a 2moa gun.

Though I did win a state leg match in LA where the barrel was dying and I doubt the gun shot better than 1.5 moa. I only won because everyone else sucked... it was a horrible score and horrible shotgun patterns for groups...

Somehow I doubt anyone considering a PSA upper is concerned with placing at Camp Perry.

Wasn't trying to win any matches that day. Just checking zero's on a couple rifles before handing them to my girls tho shoot. Didn't see a need to burn another 21 rounds.

Wasn't looking for a fight, just trying to help out a member by sharing first hand experiece

antelope, my comment was in reference to the one posted above me, not directed in any way towards you. Just wanted to make that clear.

A true 2 MOA AR is plenty accurate for 95%, if not more, of what they are used for.

I"ve had non PSA stuff that shot 2moa.... I"ve owned a Krieger that was hard pressed to barely hold MOA...

PSA was not even a dream when we were shooting.

I get your direction though. But things have come a long way and even old model 1 sales stuff I've seen shoot better than 2moa. Says a lot for how far quality has come overall.

is a 2moa gun good enough? I supposed for some. I have a custom bolt gun that hovers around 1.5 to 2 moa and it just sits there in the safe never shot. Its not a capable 200 yard reliable deer gun to me and it was built for long shots.

Of course I view things a lot different than most. And wife and I have a set up at the lease, that can net a 350 yard shot on deer trails really eaisly... and out another side can reach to almost 700 yards. We think the 350 yard interesection is a chip shot. But its not built for a 2 moa gun.

I didn't say there'd be a lot of love for a 2 minute gun, just that a 2 minute gun isn't exactly useless.

Humpy says the Army gets it done with an accuracy standard that works out to about 4.5 MOA for their M16s. Granted, most will shoot better, but I doubt that even 10% will consistently do better than 1.5 minutes shooting ball.

ball is the key there... ball is the issue, not the gun...

I've zero love for a 2 Moa gun.

Imagine my disdain for TC when I sent a renegade back that was 4moa and they shot a 4 Moa group and sent it back and said it met specs..... so I canned the tube and put a custom tube on it, and copied the comms and sent a photo back with a group slightly over an inch...at 100 with irons... Told em if an aftermarket tube could do it, and it was only a green mountain cheap one, then they should be ashamed of themselves..

Lets go to the 2moa thing. Most folks that don't shoot much will be happy with 2 Moa at 100 yards. Lets say they shoot a max of 200 yards. Lets assume if they don't shoot much and are happy with a 2 Moa gun then they probably have a 4moa or so wobble. Thats 6moa... 6 inches at 100, well ok that might work on a deer or human. But 12 inches at 200.... thats even assuming they buy good enough ammo to get to 2moa... I dunno, just seems that anyone interested enough to shoot, would always strive to get the best gun, so that their own personal wobble could be a bit worse...

Wareagle,

Sorry I wasn't clear. I was agreeing with you. I wan't trying to win Perry when I took those snaps, just checking the girls guns before I turned the loose.

Jeff, my latest venture is a light weight Colt carbine with irons shooting ball ammo. Sure I've got a couple of AR's that shoot 10 shots under an inch but I've killed just as many coyotes with a 1.5 MOA gun. That same gun would ring a 7" plate out to 400 yards pretty regularly. Right now my interest is shooting matches geared towards off hand shooting. You're interest is in Camp Perry, you've no use for mine and I've no use for yours. Who's right and who's wrong?

Oh and right now with my eyes, I'm lucky to get 4" groups (10 shots) with irons and M193 without bags but I'm loving it.

I wish I had some wisdom to add, here I am burning XM193 with red dots, and chromed barrels. Occasionally firing expensive or hand loaded ammunition, in SS barrels. Jeff you posted some iron sight groups in the challenge thread, seems to me they were in the 2MOA range but I cannot recollect exactly. I bought a Tikka CTR in 6.5 CM, after casually shooting it I am pretty convinced it is more accurate than any AR I own. So I bet a FN PSA upper with 2 MOA capability would serve 95% of what had to be done unless a person could shoot as well as you do.

Neither is right or wrong.
And first and last time I was at Perry they still required us to shoot offhand too. LOL.

I'll just be stubborn and stick to the fact that only precise guns are accurate.

Where has a precise gun been a burden? Maybe thats another way to look at it.

Or if my gun is good enough to lung shoot a deer lets say, but all I can see is a patch of the head or neck through a hole in the brush... I have yet to see a negative to an accurate gun. And a 1.5 moa gun is not a head gun on deer at 200 yards or beyond in my books, and as such nothing I want to be burdened with.

There is no negative to an accurate gun as long as it's light and quick on targets. I just don't see the need for a match barrel and match ammo when it's not needed.

Just some random thoughts in no particular order that may be of no particular value:

My PSA middy has their double chrome lined barrel with an FSB on it and averages about 2 inches for 5 shots of M193 when it's pretty warm. That may be the norm for PSA or it may not, who knows. It does show some POI shift up and to the right when it starts getting hot. I'm going to change that someday by shaving the FSB and putting a free float handguard on it. Hopefully that will take care of that and maybe my accuracy will get a little better too. If not, no biggie. I got it cheap.

Sometimes when the 1st three shots look really good, I stop. Sue me.

This barrel is also over-gassed. It irritates TWR to no end, but I've made peace with it. I'd rather it be a little over-gassed than under-gassed; I know it will cycle that dirty underpowered Russian crap, and I think PSA had that in mind when they drilled the gas port. Maybe someday I will find out exactly what parts break on guns gassed this way. I'm sure TWR will say "I told you so.." and then show pity on me and slip me a new bolt key or whatever.

It's kinda funny, but when I was carrying issue rifles, mil-spec sucked. When I had to buy my own, mil-spec was the gold standard. Except for the accuracy part.

Some perspective: a long time ago, far, far away.........I wore out the black on a 500 yard KD range with a clapped-out M16A1 made by Hydramatic shooting M193. In the snow half frozen. Seriously, the temp was in the low 20's and I thought my balls would frostbite before I got out of the prone. Trigger control? I couldn't even feel it. I was 19 at the time, and to date it's still my proudest achievement with a rifle. The 300 meter qualification range was a freakin' cake walk.

TWR's rifles don't shoot that bad - he just don't see that good. If he would stop hoarding ammo he could afford corrective lenses. He does shoot fast though.

When you can't see, you shoot twice as fast and twice as many just in case.

And if you'd shoot that PSA more often things might start breaking but no, you have to shoot the Faxon... I wonder why that is?

By my count the PSA has a little over 600 rounds through it. Surely we can draw some sweeping conclusions from that..........

with an fn barrel and you bought a decent BCG I am thinking its going to last a long time, break in period for the double chromed barrel is 2000 rounds.

Had good luck with PSA for a while but got a barrel with rifling so rough primers were popping (not FN), their customer service convinced me to shop elsewhere.

My limited experience with them so far has been very positive.

Two flat top uppers, 1/7 and 1/8, from their Daily Deals. Easily found sub MOA loads shooting with scopes off the bench.

Had an issue with a full auto BCG and dealt with Dylan at customer service. Excellent service and he sent a return shipping label right away.

I'll buy from them again.