I have a Delton Mid length upper on top of a Rock River lower that I would like to make more accurate. Looking for some ideas to start. I have already free floated the barrel. Would changing the BCG help? Do I need to rebarrel? It is chambered in 5.56 I plan on using it for coyote hunting.
TIA!

A good trigger will help a lot.

What kind of groups are you getting now, and how good do you want?

What type of ammo are you using?

The groups were about 2.5.@ 100 I am looking to bring that down to MOA if possible. Might be asking too much. I used Winchester 55 gr. SP ammo. Thinking of putting a RR 2 stage NM trigger. Didn't know if the bolt carrier had much to do with accuracy. Also shooting 223 in the 5.56 chamber?

IMO, barrel and trigger are the most important components of an AR15 (assuming everything fits and all that). The rest of it just works, or not. But then there's the question of optics and mounts.

Leupold VXll 3x9x40 in RR mount. Very solid and torqued to specs . Hoping the trigger change will help. What kind of groups are you guys getting?

Better trigger and try some better HPBT ammo, 69 gr. or 77 gr. if barrel twist allows.

1x9 twist. Don't know if it will stabilize. I have a ton of 52 gr. Matchking bullets to load. Haven't tried them in this rifle yet.

its easy as 1,2 3... buy a good barrel, put it in, shoot good groups....for me IIRC about 1.25 MOA or better for 10 rounds

first try different ammo

A 1:9 barrel should stabilise 69 gr. bullets.

Better trigger and for sure try some better ammo. Get some Fiocchi 50gr vmax or some federal 69gr match.
If it won’t shoot those then you can start looking into the rifle

Trigger barrel and load, then check out the black rifle thread here and practice shooting 10 shot groups. That about covers it.

1 in 9 will stabilize a 73 grain pill.

There's no accurizing an AR, per se', IMO; there's only building it right the 1st time or re-building it right to fix it.

Then there are tweaks, which are being discussed here, nothing more, nothing less.

Most of those are not going to really "accurize" an AR.

MM

Ordered a RR varmint nm trigger. Going to pick up some 69 gr. Sierra Matchkings, load them up and see what I get.

Those 69gr SMK bullets are a great choice, and should be a good match for that 1/9 barrel.

When I first got into building accurate rifles, an old gunsmith taught me the "3 B's" of accuracy - Barrel, Bedding, and Bullets, and that everything else is secondary. In my experience that applies to an AR as well, assuming we're starting with a free-float barrel system anyway.

- A good accurate barrel is the heart of an accurate AR. For accuracy, a free float handguard system goes hand in hand with that.

- The "bedding" part is the fit of the barrel in the upper receiver, and in my experience there is definitely a difference between a loose fit and a very tight fit. I like the BCM interference fit uppers best for this (you heat up the upper to fit the barrel extension into it; it's basically a press fit). Loctite or epoxy to bed the extension in a looser upper is next best, and a drop in fit assembled dry is at the bottom. Strictly speaking to accuracy here, not reliability or function.

- The importance of bullets is obvious to anyone who loads their own and has worked up an accurate handload. If you don't load your own, experiment with as many different types of quality ammo as you can get, and buy a bunch of the most accurate load. You may want to write down the lot number of that ammo if you're real picky.

A good trigger, gas system tuning, stock and optic choices, etc all matter too, but IMO the three things above are the platform to build an accurate rifle on.

Had a rifle with the same issues, put an Oden barrel on and a RR trigger and it’s under an inch with good Ammo. 1/2 inch groups are not uncommon

Do not dump the barrel until you know its the issue. Its rare to see a barrel that won't shoot MOA or scare the hell out of it with the RIGHT ammo.

I have a smith buddy that has always shot 9 twist on purpose and he shoots 80s through them... you won't know the heaviest until you try it.

Federal Gold Medal match 69s is one thing I"d buy a box of. If they don't shoot better than your current, that might be a sign. Others have great luck with the other loads mentioned.

IIRC, and its been years since I played a lot, a 9 twist might stabilize an 80 but not a 77 due to bearing length... again you wont' know till you try.

I sure appreciate all of the ideas thrown. The trigger is on it's way so that will be a big change. My existing trigger pops off at 7.5 lbs so going down to 3.5 will be a world of difference. Does anyone here feel that shooting 223 in a 556 chamber hurts accuracy? Seems to me that the bigger chamber can't help.

I don't know if a 556 chamber *hurts* accuracy, but I think your chances of wringing the most out of a barrel are better with a Wylde or a 223 match.

The problem with knowing for sure is that most barrels with a 556 chamber aren't set up with maximum accuracy in mind. So, it's very difficult to know for sure if differences are because of the chamber or because of some other feature of the barrel or even the rest of the gun (sights, trigger, etc).

Maybe somebody could baseline 10 Wyldes and then run 556 reamers through them and re-shoot. But my general feeling is that Wyldes work or people wouldn't use them.

The chamber of a 5.56 is the same as a 223 chamber, the difference is in the throat or free bore.

You get a tight 5.56 chamber and it can be accurate. Get a sloppy 223 chamber and it probably won't be.

Hmm.. isn't Bills chamber a 5.56 with a better throat? Always thought it was anyway.

FWIW the trigger wont' make the gun shoot better, but it will be easier to shoot it better. The float tube doesn't make tons of difference until you put bipods or sling pressure on either IMHO, but neither are bad additions.

I've won some stuff at Camp Perry once with an M1A and a horrible 7-8 pound trigger... long story but thats how it happened... never have your triggers set just at the minimum RE rules...LOL.

And your barrel could be a POS. But don't discount until you give it a fair chance.

Same experience here on the heavy triggers, last Friday I bought a complete RRA lower. I shot my R-15 and SW/PSA build gun with their heavy triggered lowers for baseline 10 shot groups. The complete RRA had the same mil spec style heavy trigger but I changed it into the above guns and shot the same size groups with the same ammo. Next I pulled the mil spec trigger out of the RRA lower and replaced it with a single stage RISE (RA-140 SST) it installed loose enough to have no tension on the cross pins to retain them. I tightened down the set screws in the bottom of the trigger cartridge against the frame to tension the cross pins from drifting. My cheapy RCBS trigger pull gauge said a tad more then 3.5# but near perfectly the same every time. I put the RRA and new trigger on my R-15, it cut my group size in half and the same in my SW & PSA barrel sighted build gun. Had a few flyers, getting used to a decent trigger is not instaneous for me but habit forming . Yeah I like the hell out of it, should have done it years a go. Bought another one and installed it in my R-15 lower permanent. The RRA lower will get tried next with my DPMS Oracle it has a laser and a red dot sight. What I learned was simple, don't condemn any component on your rifle until you swap the OEM heavy trigger out for a good one. Unlike me I hope all you can do this testing at a little higher temp than 6 degrees F that I did it at.. Probably could have got all this advice from Rost495 if I'd been smart enough to just ask him. MB

I don't know what 6 degrees feels like! When it gets 20 degrees everything around here gets shut down.

I have that same trigger in one of my rifles. I do like it so much more than a single stage trigger. I like to smooth up my barrels with a plastic brush and Brasso followed by getting all of the Brasso out prior to shooting. Since you have already free floated the barrel the only option would be to replace it. I did not see if it was chrome plated or not. Yes, I think the longer throat has a negative impact on accuracy but not by much.

kwg

free float, barrel, trigger, and good load development.
That's where it's at for AR's.

I also wonder by how much the Wylde chamber helps accuracy? I've had one Wylde, and it didn't even come close to as good of accuracy as my 556 chambered rifles.. That one also had the fastest twist rate as well... My buddies RRA ATH Carbine is not nearly as accurate as any of my AR15's either, and his has a Wylde chamber. To give you an example, his averages about 1 1/4 moa, while mine all shoot around .8-.9 moa...

Chamber is just one variable.

According to your other post, it's these variables:


So in the case of my buddies ATH carbine, it has a good RRA 2 stage varmint match trigger, barrel is freefloated, good handload or even custom matchgrade ammo, good barrel. According to RRA, it's good for "3/4 moa at 100 yards", but that is only for 3 shots. Am I missing something? My rifles with the 556 chambers are still more accurate... Like I said, his shoots around 1 1/4 moa at best...on a good day..

Don't give up. Was having the same experience as you with a Rock River varmint upper 8 twist- 20". Did not like Winchester 55gr. S.P. at all. Shoot patterns @100yds along with a bunch of other 55's and wouldn't even shoot the 69gr Fed Match factory load. On a whim picked up some Speer law enforcement 55gr G.D.H.P with nickel case for $14.00 box and a nickel will cover 5 shots @ 100 !?!? Just gotta find what she likes. The trigger will help a lot. Good luck.

Bringing a 2.5 moa rifle down to 1 moa, may be a challenge, even if you are only shooting 3 shot groups. Delton is more known as a budget rifle, not really accuracy. Id probably trust a barrel from a known maker, more than the delton barrel. Like others have said, accuracy starts with a good barrel.

Let's add one more variable, BSA. The shooter. Maybe the difference is you!

Let's not forget sights either.

Have a lot of wylde chambers and of course my iron sight submittal how many years ago was wylde. And I pretty much sucked at those groups not having shot in quite a few years at that time. Wylde or Holliger, with even a longer throat for my 90 ilk chambers, are the ones I strive to reach 1.5 inch 10 shot groups at 300 off the bench with test scopes. And I generally have not had any that wouldn't at least do 2 inches... Just FYI.
And yes you could possibly pick an even better chamber for specific needs/set up guns.

The Chamber is cut into the barrel, so when choosing an off the shelf barrel, be default you are also purchasing the chamber at the same time. Of but it's not the only thing that makes a good barrel. Choose a good chamber for an other wise junk barrel, and you still have a junk barrel.

I agree. I think if i were buying a new barrel, id go wylde, just because it probably has more potential to shoot better. My comparison between my buddies rifle and mine probably wasnt a fair comparison.

The Wylde is my preference as well. Most of my AR barrels are chambered for it.

You could try tearing the upper apart. Squaring the receiver face with a lapping tool, the barrel would have a true face to mate to. Then clean the outside of the barrel extension. Clean inside the upper receiver. Grab a caliper, and measure the inside dimension of the upper receiver. Then measure the outside of the barrel extension. Subtract the 2 dimensions, if the difference is less than .0025 inches or less. You are good to go just loctite it in or rocksett the extension into the upper whatever you decide. However if the difference is greater than .0025. Take the difference and subtract .002 inches to compensate for the clearance needed for barrel extension into upper. Then divide your answer by 2. Whatever number you come up with is your required shim thickness. Then make a trip to the local industrial supply house and get a roll of stainless steel shim stock in the correct thickness you need. Cut a strip to wrap around your barrel extension, clearing the feed ramps. Make sure the seam to the shim is horizontal to the barrel indexing pin. Get the seam as small as possible. Put a piece of tape or something to hold it together to get it started into the upper. You could use heat to make it easier hair dryer, heat gun whatever. And fit the barrel extension in. Torque barrel nut to spec.

I'd like to think lapping a receiver made any difference but I cannot see how it could unless it was so far out of spec, that it left a gap between the upper and barrel extension shoulder. And hand turning a bar to lap it won't be any truer than it started out.

Let's see, the bolt locks into the barrel extension and has clearance enough on the tail of it to wobble a bit in the carrier that has enough tolerance in the upper to wobble a lot. Yet by scraping off some of the anodizing, the stars will align? I've never seen an upper that was so far out of square to even dream of cutting it. If you want to do it like a bolt gun then lap the bolt into the barrel extension. There's just too much tolerance built in the upper/carrier fit for me to see it.

Start with a good barrel and things will go easier.

Most all of what you might want to know about 223 Match, Wylde, 5.56 & other chambers............................

MM

I can truly appreciate that variable. I don't think that is problem though. I am capable of getting sub MOA groups with all of my bolt guns. While the optic on it is not a high end glass it is solid and has been on another rifle that shot lights out. I will get this rig shooting right. I just don't have much experience with this platform yet and it just drives me nuts to have a rifle that refuses to put holes where I want them to.

You may have just answered some of your own question. If you dont have a lot of experience with this platform, that has an affect on the accuracy of the rifle.

You could be right but I usually don't have problems shooting. There's always a first for everything though.

Trust me, there is a learning curve when it comes to the AR. Some things that affect the shootability of the rifle are small, but often overlooked. Things such as grip, trigger, technique, stock, cheek weld, scope height etc. etc. For grips, I know a lot of us use the magpul K2+ on the rifles we used in the black rifle challenge. A good adjustable butt stock helps, a good scope mount that is solid and keeps the scope mounted low on the rail. Triggers like the Geiselle SSA-E, RRA varmint match, Larue mbt2s etc. Some of these things don't make the rifle shoot better, it just helps you as the shooter, have better control of the platform. Have you taken a look at the black rifle challenge, out of curiosity? It may give you some ideas, as to how to better set up your rifle.

I really appreciate all of the suggestions that you have made. I have learned and that is why I came here. I am doing some small things to the rifle right now to help me try to close up the groups. I will continue to do this as I can. I like the idea of the BRC, It can do nothing but help. Thanks again for helping in my ignorance.

I'm new to the AR platform myself. It took me a while to hone in my shooting skill with them. I'm still working on it, as a matter of fact. It is different than shooting a bolt gun. I've heard others say this as well, so I know I'm not the only one that feels this way.

If you go to a regular HP Rifle match most of the shooters will have their nose touching the charging handle. In exactly the same place on the handle every time. Just to keep your head position the same every shoot. Also if you cant the rifle differently between shots in can make a big difference. Just a couple of things I would throw out there that are a little different.

BTW I will never put my nose against the bolt on a 300 magnum!

The new trigger came in. I installed last night and it feels much better than the milspec RR I had in it. Loaded up some 223 Winchester cases with Varget and 52 Gr Sierra MK's I will try them out along with some Federal Match 69 Gr. MK that I bought. We'll see what happens.

You will probably like the NM trigger. Be warned though, it may need a little polishing before you use it. All of my RRA varmint match triggers were gritty on the first stage. That can be fixed easily enough though. I also wonder why you chose that particular model? Generally most guys will buy the varmint match. Although, I believe the only difference is the spring weight. Beyond the varmint match, the others that are on the top of the list are the SSA-E and Larue Tactical MBT2S that has been on sale for $87.00 for quite some time.. I like the NM triggers, but eventually replaced all I had with the VM and SSA-E. A good trigger makes all the difference in the world to me, maybe not so much for others, because like you I have a lot more experience behind a bolt gun and those (of mine) always have excellent fine tuned triggers... Let us know if that trigger helps and how your new loads work out..

Good barrel and good ammo. I'm being technical here. Float and trigger have nothing to do with the accuracy. BUT one helps vibrations and sling, or bipod tensions, the trigger helps you SHOOT better not make the gun more accurate. Yes there are nits in this post.

You will enjoy the trigger. Might make you want to get an even better one. You never know. ( I have quite a few RRA varmints and NM that are good enough for my work)

I believe, even you said you fine tune your RRA triggers.

That’s how they teach you to shoot in the Marine Corps nose touching the charging handle. I agree with you on the 300 Mag.

I did get the varmint trigger, so far it feels much better than what was in there. I do believe it needs polishing. It is breaking at 4.5. I am going to run a couple of hundred rounds through it to see if it lightens up If not I'll take to polishing. Thanks for all the encouragement!!

Excellent man. The RRA varmint match is one of my favorites, after just a little bit of polishing. They are great for the money. I actually just sent a brand new Larue Tactical mbt2s to a buddy here, because i didnt want to take the RRA out of my AR10. You will like yours.

I believe that is the NM trigger. The Varmint 2 stage is supposed to break at 3.5#. I believe the only diff is springs.

I bought the Varmint 3.5# trigger and it was good out of the box without polishing, must have got lucky. However, I didn't like how light the trigger return felt; it was not ideal for shooting quickly. I put a mil-spec trigger spring back in it, which put it at about 4.5 lb so basically it's the NM version now as far as I can tell.

It was suppose to be the Varmint. Came with the blue instruction card that only suppose to come with that trigger. I called RR and told them about the poundage. I was told that they did not use a trigger gauge to set the triggers . They use weight. I can send it back to them but choose not to. I'll get it down to where I need it myself.