I've been thinking about picking up a Contender carbine barrel in .30-30 to load the Barnes 120gr TAC-TX bullet. It was originally designed for .300 BLK, but takes up enough space in the case that the 110gr actually works better. In a much larger volume case like the .30-30, that's not an issue. The maximum recommended impact velocity is around 2500 fps, but Barnes says even if it sheds a petal or four, the base will carry on penetrating. It expands down to ~1300 fps. Seems like it would be an almost ideal bullet for whitetail size animals if loaded in a .30-30 single shot (or AI version) with 19-23 inch barrel at somewhere in the 2500-2600 fps range. I don't own any other guns in .30-30, so I'm not worried about the tube mag thing.

Anyone around here done this?

I haven’t done it, but it sounds like it would work perfect.

Hammer makes a 30-30 specific 120gr. If you are looking for velocity but not necessarily mono, take a gander at the data for Speer's 130gr on their web site.

I have done similar. Years ago I got a 250ct bag of 130gr TSX bullets from American Reloading. Turns out they're the 300 BLK specific bullets that Remington loaded into their Hog Hammer line of ammo. I've never found these bullet available as components.

I loaded them for my H&R Handi rifle in 30-30 using IMR 4198. They came apart quickly when I shot them into a plastic box filled with packed wet newspaper at 2400fps. I found they held together and penetrated deeper at 2100fps. I don't believe their ability to kill was hindered by the lower speed.

In 2008 I shot a small buck 10 yards away with a 45 Colt rifle loaded with a 225gr XPB. My MV was just over 1700fps. IIRC Barnes velocity rating is 1500fps for that bullet. The deer ran nearly 300yds. Upon field dressing it I found the petals broke off quickly and it appeared only the base penetrated fully. In my situation I don't think that was optimal performance and the deer suffered unneccessarily.

Ever since then I have tested my questionable loads in my bullet box to see how well they hold together and penetrate. I learned shooting pistol bullets from a rifle isn't always a solid plan.

Dinny

Olong, I don’t know where you hunt or how far you shoot, but I have been toying with a .30-30 Contender for a bit more than 20 years. 22” barrel that shoots sub MOA routinely. Haven’t found a bullet that won’t kill yet. Sierra 130 gr FN/150 gr spitzers and Hornady 150-170 RN/FN all do the trick. Nosler BT and Partitions do the trick as well.

Also don’t know which Contender model you’re using. The G2 can run faster that the G1. I hit the wall at about 2400 FPS w/150 gr bullets in my G1.

"regular" bullets kill deer just fine out of a 30-30. I use the 110 Tac-x Barnes in 300BO, but stick to standard bullets in my Contender.

Just a couple points to further articulate my thinking.

I'll postulate that lead-free is preferred for hunting. Some are restricted to that by law, others will debate both sides of that. I'm not really interested in having a debate on it here, as it's been hashed out endlessly already. But frame this in the context of wanting or needing to use all copper for hunting.

Second, sure, the .30-30 specific bullets kill just fine. But the single-shot allows use of a spire point, which makes the trajectory less of a rainbow, which extends the point blank range and makes it easier to hit targets that are farther away.

The 120 TAC-TX doesn't have the best BC ever, but it's a heck of a lot better than anything with a blunt nose meant for a tube mag. With the higher velocity expansion threshold of typical monometals (TSX, TTSX, E-Tip, GMX, etc.), the range at which it can be expected to reliably expand when launched at .30-30 velocity is signficantly reduced. The low expansion threshold of the 120 TAC-TX puts that range way out past where the combination of trajectory and the basic marksmanship problem makes shots questionably responsible. So you just don't have to worry about, "Will it expand?" It will expand.

Additionally, there's no temptation to push the loads to higher velocities (and pressures) in an attempt to try to eek out a little bit flatter trajectory or expansion at longer ranges. Book max is fine; if you choose an AI chamber, add 50-60 fps on top of that and enjoy not having to trim brass as often. No need to ever know when pressure signs start. And be confident you're not going to stretch your "not making any more of those" G1 frame.

I have crawled all over the problem, and can't think of a more optimized setup for a super-light, compact, easy to carry and take-downable rifle with moderate recoil but plenty of thump for deer-sized game.

Dan: "The G2 can run faster that (sic) the G1". Mike Bellm agrees with you but J. D. Jones does not. When I was developing loads for a .308 Bellm chambered by Mike he said to use .300 Savage mid power loads. When I discussed the .308 JDJ with Jones his opinion was the G2 action was not appreciably stronger than the G1. Because there is no SAAMI pressure data for either cartridge I do not know who is right. Maybe it depends on how many stretched frames each pistolsmith has seen?

Olong: Bobby Tomek has much experience with the bullet that interestsyou in the Contender. You might want to consider the 308 Bellm or the 308 JDJ. I used a 308 Bellm in a T/C carbine (light weight and inexpensive take down) on tahr in New Zealand for the reasons you discussed. The 308 Bellm gives more velocity than the 30/30 at the 40,000 psi pressure limit of a Contender using standard 308 Winchester/ 444 Marlin dies. The 308 JDJ requires custom dies.

Bob, the issue orbits the concept of frame stretch and this is why the G2 and Encore have that little slab added to each side of the frame. The G1 will not necessarily be damaged by transient frame stretch but extraction will be a bother with a .30-30 at or before SAAMI max pressure is reached. I found out about this the hard way.

Dan: I followed the debate about back thrust, frame stretching, etc. in the Contender frame and that is why I settled on a wildcat based on the larger capacity 444 Marlin case. Whether it was worth the approximate 100 fps over a 30/30 is debateable. Perhaps a carbine barrel in 7mm TCU might have gotten me to the same place? I am gunshy about traveling with wildcats for hunts based on attempting to find lost 416 Ruger ammo in Zimbabwe which is another positve for the 30/30.. Regarding frame stretch, most materials which possess elasticity in practice remain purely elastic only up to very small deformations, after which plastic (permanent) deformation occurs. That is why I believe the repetative nature of cartridge firing causes frame stretching over time as opposed to just a few rounds.

I've used the 130 TSX and TTSX in my .30-30 Contender (G1) carbine with great results.

Sounds great... I'm a 30/30 fan... so much so, that over the years, I load about any caliber I might be hunting with, to either 30/30 speeds or 300 Savage Speeds...

My Unicorn in life is a Model 54 Winchester in stellar shape, chambered in 30/30...

or a Rem 30S in 30 Remington...as second choice.

I'm a big fan of the KISS principle. Even a .30-30 AI lets you use ammo you can find at Walmart, or anywhere else they sell ammo for hunting deer, in a pinch. I'd rather do AI than a true wildcat. I can buy Lee dies for normal prices for .30-30 AI, and Lee CS tells me the .30-30 collet die works for AI.

I ran the numbers for 7 TCU and 7-30 Waters, looking at drop, windage and velocity with TTSX 110 and 120gr and NBT 120gr. Decided the 7TCU doesn't offer enough over the .300 BLK to be worth buying a barrel. The 7-30 Waters trajectories were within an MOA or so (expected window of repeatability) of the .30-30 TAC-TX load out to the point where velocity dropped into the questionable expansion range with the TTSX and NBT bullets. With the confidence in terminal performance of the TAC-TX, and the KISS-compability of .30-30 (even AI'ed), it seems that Old Reliable is the best answer.

This is a good thread. Thank you all.

Yeah, it has me considering other options.

I haven’t but I have a .30-30 contender barrel and it shoots the mono flex bullets well as well as cup and core bullets

I don't want to shoot bare lead through my can, as it's a Gemtech Tracker and it isn't "user serviceable" for cleaning. The monos have me intrigued.

Goalie, I've been shooting cast thru a muffler for quite a spell, maybe 1,000-1,500 round of CF and who knows how many .22 RF rounds. It is user serviceable, but I have yet to see the first trace of lead. I use ALOX rather than grease lube because I don't want to clean that goop out of the baffles.

Good to know. My Griffin Optimus I can take apart, but it's longer and heavier.

wondering where you got the information about recommended impact velocities? Great info to have im just looking to find same info for other bullets

A few places...

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbt...et-minimum-impact-velocities-information

https://www.longrangehunting.com/threads/old-information-on-barnes-bullets-is-just-that-old.182198/

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbt...barnes-6-5-127-lrx-question#Post10309600

https://www.65grendel.com/forum/sho...g&p=245098&viewfull=1#post245098

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2HLngwmJxW8

https://specialtypistols.infopop.cc...005/m/3690058786?r=4920078786#4920078786


A web search on any particular bullet will likely yield someone posting info they were specifically told by Barnes about that bullet.

As you may gather from the above links, Barnes customer service is pretty good about answering this question with regard to specific inquiries about specific bullets. For example, I asked about the 130 TTSX and 129 LRX-BT for .270Winchester. (It's still kinda frustrating that they don't just publish a list, or include it in their load manual the way Hornady used to do with all the XTPs.)

Excerpt of the response:



Also,

thanks for the response....i am in the same position as you.
I have a Martini Cadet trimmed down with a pencil thin 20inch barrel, rifle weighs less than 6 pounds WITH scope im wanting to make into a walking varminter/ stalking rifle.Trying to find a bullet/load for badgers/porcupines/coyotes maybe a little doe deer.
Give any consideration to the 125gr Nosler Ballistic tip?

What cartridge is your Martini chambered for? I know what I read on Wikipedia. Says they were set up for a .323 lead bullet. Seems like anything .308 would rattle down the lands.

I've looked at the NBT 120gr for 7mm, mainly 7-30 Waters and 7mm TCU. It's popular with shooters of those calibers, maybe even the consensus "best" bullet. But the information I've seen is pretty consistent that 1800 fps is the recommended minimum impact velocity for any NBT. So if you give yourself a cushion and keep it above 2000 fps, it doesn't give you much range.

Nosler publishes .366 G1 BC for the .308 125gr BT, which is only a hair better than the .358 Barnes publishes for the 120gr TAC-TX. The 110 gr and 120 gr TAC-TX are both represented to expand as low as 1300-1350 fps (depending on what source you find). If you start it at 2550-2600, which a .30-30 AI with a 21-inch barrel can probably do, the 120 should stay above 1500 fps out to 500 yards. Of course, drop gets crazy and therefore challenging to make ethical hits long before that. The main value of the 500 yards concept is that you just don't have to worry about it opening if you're making shots at 300-ish and in.

Rebarreled to a 30-30 .....500yds? No. Little stalking gun, compact 4x scope, 100yds 200max.
Part of reason I'm looking at the lighter bullets is a hope to get a little more velocity in lighter loadings

I got 2600fps in my 30-30 using CFE223 and the Hornady 130gr SP. This was fired from a 22" H&R single shot barrel.The Speer 130gr Single Shot Pistol Bullet shot real well with that load too.

I reckon the 125 NBT would work well for you, but good luck finding any right now.

The Barnes is in stock here: https://battlehawkarmory.com/produc...kout-.308-120-gr-tac-tx-flat-base-50-box

Speer data

yeah availability is liable to be a determining factor
anybody ever shoot the Remington Reduced recoil 125gr? any chance of finding that bullet in bulk?

Other possibly good bullets for the application are

Sierra 4625 TGK 125gr
Hornady SST 125gr
Speer TNT 125gr

The Speer may work best if you keep the velocity down, like in the 2300 fps range. It's a varmint bullet, but people use it in .300 BLK at ~2100 fps MV for deer and pigs with good results. Also, 500-piece boxes are currently available.

Had looked at Hornady but dont see any available, had not thought of the varmint bullets.

Battle Hawk Armory's freight costs ended up being insane when I put a whole order together. I guess they must have been having every item shipped from a different warehouse. Ended up going with Tombstone Tactical, which worked out excellent as always. They are GTG.

Just unpacked the TAC-TX. Will probably work up some .30-30 AI-equivalent reduced loads for the .308 and see what I think before I invest in a Contender barrel.

I just bought three boxes for my son to use in my 30-30 contender