I am looking for a 410 for my son. Does anyone have any ideas. Single shot, pump, or what. If so what gun?

thanks

What are you hunting with it? How old/big is your boy?

Honestly I would say a remington youth 870 20ga. A recoil reducer and recoil pad and that gun doesnt kick. It also gives a little more room for error.

I saw a 870 wingmaster in 410 a while back. It made me want a 410 after that.

I've long been of the opinion that a .410 is about the worst beginner's gun there is. Since to have reliable kills with it you have to be spot on. There is about zippo room for error. Thus, I consider it a professional's gun.

Give a new hunter a .410 and after he misses about the 1st 50 or so things he shoots at, he just says to himself: "I'm no good at this", and loses interest.

For several years, I taught Hunter Safety to 12 yr. olds. When the time to shoot came around, we always gave them 20 ga. shotguns. Most kids would hit 2 or 3 clay birds with the 1st five shots.

Recoil reacts far more to the weight of the shot charge than the size of the bore. Most 3" .410's are loaded with 5/8 - 11/16 oz. shot charge. You can easily find 20 ga. loads with 3/4 oz. shot charge. And besides, you'll never find .410 shells on sale. Sale ammo is always 20 ga and 12 ga.

Best use I've ever found for a .410 is to shoot rats in a granary! Unless, of course, one is a hotshot skeet shooter.

My uncle bought my lil cousin one of the rossie .410 combo's lil cousin had a flinch in 4 shots.

I put that recoil reducer in the very front of the magazine of that 870 youth. It took the place of the plug, added 11oz and the wieght was out at the end of the magazine. It wasnt as whippy and swung like a dream afterwards.

Grasshopper is right on! I second his post!

I've still got the H&R Topper that Dad got me when I was in 2nd grade. He traded in the .32 Colt auto that he had when he was the town Marshall in Varina. (It's in Iowa. You could look it up, and no, I didn't substitute an r for a g.) I would agree that it is a difficult beginner's shotgun. It took me two years to hit a pheasant with it, but I do think that it taught me to be a better shot. Not saying it is a good choice, just that it worked for me. Best, John

I started out hunting with a Winchester Model 42 pumpgun that I bought at age 12 with my own money (total cost eighty-five 1948 dollars) I earned from working with my Dad painting apartments... Winchester's .410 version of its famous Model 12.

My favorite uncle told me if I had a shotgun, he'd teach me to hunt and take me along with him and my cousin when he went hunting.

That was 60 years ago... and the little Model 42 has resided, unused for almost a half century, in an honored place in my gun-safe... still in pristine condition.

I didn't know .410's were hard to "hit" with... so I killed a good many rabbits and some pheasants with the lithe little pump gun with its ventilated rib from age 13 to about age 24 when my wife gave me a new Belgium-made Browning Superposed 12 gauge in improved cylinder and modified as a Christmas present.

To be perfectly honest, I don't EVER remember missing anything with that .410... but, of course, at age 13 when I first began to go hunting with my favorite uncle, I sometimes fired 4 or 5 fast shots at whatever game I was trying to hit before I finally "connected".

I shot 3-inch shells exclusively with 3/4 oz. of shot. If the gun had any recoil, I never noticed it while shooting at game... and I was not a "big" kid at age 13... maybe 5'3" and 100 pounds soaking wet.

Two years ago, my youngest son (age 44) took me pheasant hunting at a local game farm. And... just for the heck of it, I decided to take the little Model 42 which hadn't been fired in almost 50 years.

To make a long story a bit shorter, I used 5 shots to shoot at 4 cock birds... and they all died at the other end of the Model 42's modified choke.

That said in the defense of the oft-criticized .410, I agree that a 20 gauge would probably be the best bet for a new shooter because, as pointed out in a previous post, you can buy the shells "on sale" for less than you can handload them.

I believe I'd buy the boy a semi-automatic shotgun... Remington 1100's are good, but expensive. Mossbergs are good... and not as expensive, but I'm not sure if they are recoil-operated or gas-operated. You want a gas-operated action and I'll explain why.

Check out the prices of a good USED Remington or Mossberg at guns shows and pawn shops. Most pawn shop will guarantee the gun will shoot and function properly (if they won't, don't buy it from them, go to another pawn shop). Most pawn shops will pay to fix it if it won't shoot. This eliminates, to a great extension, the "downside" of buying a used gun.

Now... before someone "loses it" over my suggestion of a semi-automatic shotgun, let me expand on my reasons.

A gas-operated semi-automatic will absorb a considerable amount of the recoil just operating the ejection/reloading system. This means you can shoot the least expensive 20 gauge shells on sale rather than exclusively buying the "light loads" which may NOT be "on sale". This will enable you to give the boy more practice that won't "break-the-bank" quite so fast.

This also means he can shoot FIELD LOADS rather than LIGHT LOADS when hunting with the 20 gauge gun giving him a better chance of hitting a bird or fast moving duck.

But how do you keep him from shooting up the place with 4 or 5 shots like I did due to the excitement when I first started hunting?

EASY... only load a single shell in the gun's chamber... and he has a "single-shot" shotgun. If he knows he has ONLY one shot to "connect", he'll use that "one shot" wisely just as most single-shot shotgunners do!

Then, as he gains experience and confidence... and learns to carefully take his shot... add another shell in the magazine so he has TWO shots. And... eventually, let him load 3 shells.

Just don't sell the little .410 short... it was... and "IS" a useful tool as long as it's used within it's range.


Strength & Honor...

Ron T.

The first shotgun I bought on my own was a .410 bolt. I shot and killed more squirrels, rabbits and miscellaneous four legged critters with it than anything since. I was not too deadly on airborne targets but did score everything legal except geese with it. Once I moved up to the 16 gauge I owned the land and the air.

I started my son's shotgunning the same way, with a Winchester hammer model single shot .410. After breaking in on empty cans and hand thrown clays he popped his first winged critter on his first attempt. After that there wasn't a Ruffed Grouse in Washington that stood a chance, (many were stump sitters).

When he moved up we did it big. I gave him my 1100 12 ga. for trap shooting and it was way too long and heavy for him. Besides, back then we were running 1-1/8 oz. loads and that was just too stiff. After a couple rounds he was literally beat up, worn out and suffered from sore back and shoulder. Of course he wouldn't complain, after all he was shooting with the men.

Were I to do it over I think I'd still start him with the .410 but go from that to the 20 ga. in something that fit him better and used lighter loads.

He's got three boys now and he still owns the Winchester single and I've picked up another .410 bolt for them when he/they think it's time.

And I've always got an eye out for another.410 just for me.

+1 on the 870 youth 20 ga. Great gun for the beginner.

We are hunting deer in northwest ohio. I tried a 20 ga. western auto and that was too much kick for him. Thats why i said a 410

I asked about a 410 because I had my reasons. All you people did is run me down about it. Instead of giving me advice about the gun I should buy. Which is what I asked for.

They didnt run you down. They gave you thier opinion. There was no flame or attack. You said you were looking at a 410 but was looking for idea's an thats what you got.

They felt that a 20gauge would be a better learning gun that has alot more uses. They also gave ideas plusses an minuses of different action styles and how to reduce the felt recoil.

no running down was done just free opinions handed out. If you want the .410 go for it

I would start a kid on a single shot with a stock that fits. That will help with handling, aim, and recoil. Recoil is the big bugaboo with kids as far as I'm concerned and can create flinching problems that will follow them into the world of rifles and serious marksmanship. Even when my kids moved up from .22 to shotgun, I would limit their rounds in the shotgun.

My youngest is 16 and he thanked me the other day for being so recoil conscious when he was younger - said it really helped him master shooting. In fact, last time at the range he was shooting my flintlock and the pan went off but not the main charge. That kid was like a rock on that gun - it was beautiful to see.

Anyway, .410, 20 gauge, get what you can find, but I would look for a youth stocked gun. My kids used a Winchester single shot youth 20 and that little gun was also heavier than my full sized H&R 20 gauge single, again I think to help tame the recoil. Finding a gun, you might try a gun wanted add in the Little Nickel paper, or your local equivalent. That has turned up some gems for me in the past. The gun auctions on line seem a bit pricey, and the sites like Craig's List and E-Bay are too frightened of their shadows to allow for the sale of the evil guns. Good luck Firefiter.

Shucks put a post in the classified on this forum. simthin like "WTB youth shotgun" see what ya get.

I you really want a .410 bore, then Remington makes a pump (Model 870 Wingmaster) and an autoloader (Model 1100). Either would be better than a single shot for a beginner in my opinion. The possibility of hitting on the second shot could make all the difference in the world to a young hunter. Keeping an inexperienced hunter safe is a bit more complicated with a pump or auto than with a break action single shot, but if he is ready to hunt, then he is probably up to it. A good O/U is probably the best option out there for experienced or inexperienced upland hunters. They can be demonstrated safe (open), balance well, and provide two quick shots. But, any O/U worth buying (IMO) is a bit spendy.

Also, as has been said before, the gun will need to be fit to the young shooter. Probably that means simply shortening the LOP and replacing or adding a recoil pad.

Good luck!

I also agree with Grasshopper's post! Because I was also given a .410 to begin shooting with. It was indeed a handicapper of a gun.

If the youngster can hold the bloody thing to his shoulder, at least equip him (or her) with a 20 gauge! If recoil is too much of a problem, use shells similar to Remington's low-recoil STS 20Ga rounds. But really, regardless of a beginner's age or size, if they can't handle the recoil of a standard 7/8 or 1-ounce 20 gauge shell, ARE THEY MATURE ENOUGH TO START HUNTING?

The smallest "beginner shotguns" I have are all 20 gauges (I also would not err by using a 28-gauge either). Only 410's I'll own in the future will be a Contender or chamber-adapter for my 20's.

Sorry you didn't hear the answers you really wanted. Next time specifiy you're more interested in what you want others' to write - than the truth of what they have to say, especially from their experiences.

You asked for ideas , same as asking for opinions , and when you ask for opinions you will get them.
Welcome to the Campfire !
Mike

CLICK! (3)

Sorry if I overreacted to peoples opinion. Everyone has there own ideas. Maybe I didn't make myself clear that I was more wanting opinions on actions. Sorry if I "jumped the gun".

Firefiter,

Sorry we didn't provide the answers you wanted. But when you mentioned .410, I guess everyone assumed you meant shotgun

Now a .410 as a slug gun brings up a whole different scenario. It has been my experience that a .410 as a slug shooter is far more accurate than most folks give them credit for. I believe they are certainly adequate for deer if one is patient and keeps their shots under 50 yds or so. Preferably under 65 yds at the worst case scenario. It would be suggestion that one get an H&R youth gun. (Sgl shot) I don't think they come in .410 with rifle sights, but could be fitted by a competent 'smith for a reasonable price. That would be a fairly inexpensive way to start, and then in a couple of years, he could move up to a 20 ga. when he can handle it. Hope this helps....

By the way; Welcome to the fire... We're mostly a bunch of pretty good guys.

GH

H&R / N.E.F. (New England Firearms) makes a .45Colt / .410 SG "Survivor" that has a 20inch barrel that's rifled, but for the last couple inches of the muzzle - where a choke is usually used when shooting the .410 to stop it from spinning, but removed when using a .45C. I have no idea how well that barrel would work with .410 slugs, but check it out.

www.hr1871.com

BTW, are you already invested in a .410? If you're still makingf your decision as to what to start your youngster with, NEF also offers a fully rifled youth-model or adult Tracker II barrel in 20 gauge (and 12ga), along with their 12 and 20 gauge Ultra Slug Hunters.

If I could talk you into using a 20ga, I'd suggest giving the 20 Tracker II a close look, plus its not that expensive!

But Good luck whatever you do.

BTW, I have NEF single-shots and a Remington M870 Youth Combo (which I wanted for its fully-rifled 20in bbl and its 21in RemChoke bbl). My single-shots don't include a .410, altho I would someday like to pick up a .45C/.410 bbl for my T/C Encore.

If you go the NEF "route," most folks I've heard report their results like Forster style slugs for their acurracy over other slug designs. "Forsters" are usually the cheapest!

For the recoil I'd go 20 guage plus it's ammo is more plentyful with those 100 round value packs.

The 410 is a HUGE POS.Waste of good steel.

Thanks grasshopper the HR was one of my thoughts. Ithink thats what I'll go with. thanks.

Good deal! Best of luck whatever you do.

Be sure to look carefully at H&R/NEF's Barrel Accessory Program.

Best way to maximize the potential of a NEF gun, is to start with an SB2-receivered-rifle, and add shotgun (and other) barrels to it.

An SB1-receivered-shotgun cannot take rifle-barrels! Check out and be clear on these differences - to be sure to get done what you want.