Folks - I need dirrection for a new project.

I bought an example of the aforementioned single shot for $150 as a project seed. Don't know how many of you are familiar with it (as I wasn't before I stumbled on this one), but it's a modestly built and furnished break-open single shot as seen here:

http://ww.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=80222917

As you can see, it's kind of an ugly little thing, but I've got plans to make some significant cosmetic changes (new mannlicher stock set from scratch, much metal recontouring, etc.) that will hopefully improve things.

The part that I need advice on is the new chambering. The lugs are on a monoblock and it will be very simple to rebarrel and modify the extractor (is for a .22 hornet now). The pressure ballpark we're talking about though is described by it's current chamberings of .222 rem and .22 Savage Hi Power. I'd like to go up in caliber to something that could take whitetail given an ideal situation. What would be the best performance obtainable from a chambering safe in such a rifle. 6.5TCU? 7-30 waters maybe? 357 Maximum? What about those of you familiar with contender rifles and martini cadets... same ballpark?

Thanks for your thoughts.

Damn, it's a Euro-Handi......

Should be fun for a project, though.

Am guessing that a 7-30 would be a good one in that rig. As would something like a .25-35AI, with the brass done off the .375Win. necked down and blown out.

Yeah, she's pretty "handy" right now but starting with the top lever, a relocated safety, and a heavily scalloped rear reciever might just make for a rags to riches story by the time I'm done. It's more of a, "okay, lets see what can be done" type experiment.

Hey, what does starting with the .375 brass buy you?

The .375 Win brass is MUCH stronger and you'll need it with the .25-35AI. Factory .25-35 brass, and even some .30-30 factory brass doesn't hold up well when AI'd. The .375 Win brass is stronger, and would hold up better if you go AI with it. At least, that's what those that have done so advised me when I was thinking about a .25-35AI in a Contender.

Good luck!

...It is such an uncommon find on this side of the big pond that I'd fit it up for an uncommon cartridge too. The 357 Remington Maximum you mentioned would certainly fit that mold and dispatch deer with little fuss either sound or recoil wise, but would limit range more than something like the 6.5 Grendel. The Grendel round, operating at very safe pressure levels for your gun (I'd say stay under the mid forty thousand PSI level)would pitch 130 grain bullets around 24-2500fps. If that sounds lacking to you please realize that the superior ballistic coefficients of those bullets assure great penetration and produce ballistic energy levels that surpass the 308 Winchester out beyond 4-500 yds, with less wind drift and a flatter trajectory. Very much similar to the 6.5X55 Swede cartridge which is more than sufficient for deer, and all medium game.The Grendel is available as a factory load from Alexander arms, Wolf is now loading it as well, and brass is being produced by Laupa.Just Google "6.5 Grendel" for more info. Brockman's gunsmithing has been chambering rifles for this fine cartridge.

Here is a ZBK110 that I reworked according to my tastes. The butt stock is a reworked original factory stock, while the forend is new. The rear sight is a 310 Martini Cadet sight. Caliber is .222 Remington.

The Waters would be my choice. Darn fine work there Bandukwallah!

Bandukwallah-

You're setting the bar pretty high! Seriously, what a difference you made in the stockwork alone... our tastes are pretty similar. I appreciate the relative hight you were able to keep on that comb while straightening it out; very sharp. Looks like you smoothed out the edges on the top lever pad as well... I have similar plans. I'll be removing the factory scope provision and doing a custom low-profile one as well as some express sights. Any troubles extracting the rimless case yet? How does your's shoot?

Regards,
Ian

Thanks for the kind words. There is plenty of wood to work with in those factory stocks. The butt plate is one from an old M95 Mauser, the grip cap is from Brownells. I would have radically changed the shape of the top lever if I had been able to remove it - But, I never found out how to accomplish that task!

Your plans sound very intriguing; I am especially interested in a low scope mounting method. How about a Lyman Alaskan scope on a VERY LOW mount??

I haven't fired the rifle a tremendous amount, but I haven't had any problems with extraction. Accuracy is very good, considering that I'm using iron sights exclusively.

For example, here's one made to put a 3/4" Weaver 330 on a little Sauer stalking rifle:





While hunting with this arrangement, I can wrap my fingers all the way around rifle and scope for a one-handed carry.

That is a fine rifle. You have the right idea about a scope. I had a Weaver 330 (bought it for $25!), and found it to be a superb little scope. And I like your scope mount a lot.

I have several projects in mind along these lines. One is to convert a ZBK110 to something more substantial than .222 - say a 7x57R, .30-30, .30-40 or .32-40. Another project involves converting a M94 Stevens .410 to .30-30.

You mentioned Express sights: what do you have in mind? I'm always looking for a good source.

Bandukwallah

So you feel confident that the 110 action could handle a cartridge like the 7x57R?

I'll probably rely on New England Custom Gun for the sights, and maybe a cartridge trap as well...

Yes, I believe it is capable of handling all the cartridges I mentioned. For example, in the Gun Digest, 55th Edition, 2001, in the feature article "The Guns of Europe" by Raymond Caranta, he mentions the ZBK110 and the calibers offered therein: 22 Hornet, 222 Rem., 5.6x50R, 5.6x52R, 7x57R, 7x65R, 8x57JRS, 12ga Mag!

Bandukwallah

Well, then... that changes the options, doesn't it! Good news!

I did some searching hoping to luck out and find that article in .pdf form somewhere on the web, but no luck. I waded through the first 15 pages or so of hits googling zbk-110, and in every case (English, Western and Eastern European sites) the caliber list ends at 5.6x52R. I did find a lesser-known but similar model, the zbk-100 that was chambered in the larger rounds you mentioned. Do you think he could have been mistaken?

Ian,

I have been comtemplating this subject ever since you broached it. I just sold a ZBK-110 in .22 Hornet, so I am familiar with the action in question.

I would guess that what you have found that the caliber list ends with the 5.6x52R is correct. There is absolutely no way that the action in question could have a 12 ga. bbl fitted. (.410, perhaps, but that would be all.) The action is way too petite to have anything very large on it.

Are you planning on having the original barrel bored? If so, I would think that probably .25 caliber would be as large as one could go. A .25 Hornet would be way cute.

A 6x47 (6mm/.222 Rem Mag) should be doable. Or even a .257 Kimber (.25/.222 Rem Mag)

Since I sold mine, I am not sure what the bbl diameter is at the breech. But if it's large enough for a 5.6x52R. I would think you could do .25/20 Win.

Of course another option would be anything on the .222 Rem case. (I believe these were originally chambered in .222 Rem) A more obscure option would be something on the .222 Rimmed case. (I just happen to have some new, unprimed brass.... ) But finding a suitable supply of brass would be difficult. I would think you'd need at least 100 rds. before you started.

Just idle thoughts from a mostly idle mind....

Grasshopper

Grasshopper, as usual, I like the way you think.....

Hey, if you're going interesting and wildcat, why not something along the lines of the .256 Winchester Magnum, except based off of the .357 Maximum case? Just a thought....

Or, maybe a .25 Krag?

Okay, this in-put really helps. Especially since the rifle is in the mail still and not yet in-hand, the first-hand insight makes it easier to realize the size. Knowing this, the .222 or .357 family headsize makes me feel pretty comfortable. It will now be a matter of whether or not I can exicute a propper rimless extractor or not. If so, I think it'll be between 6x45, 25 copperhead, or 6.5tcu. If not, it'll be a 6mm, 25, or 6.5 on the maximum case or .222 rimmed as suggested. There's nothing special about the factory barrel (integral sights, mounts, interesting profile, etc) that would warrent a rebore, so I'll just replace and chamber myself, and these cases should allow a fairly lightweight shank diameter to keep the overall package nice-n-light.

Thanks again for the suggestions. I'll be sure to post some progress reports in return.

Ian

Ian,

I only have a half-a-handful of .222R brass, but I'd be glad to donate a couple if you want to take measurements or neck one out. I also have a hoard of .357 Max brass.

Grasshopper

The barrel shank diameter is approx. 23mm. A 12 ga. shell has a rim diameter of 23 mm, so I would say that a 12 ga. is definitely pushing the envelope. However, a 20 ga. may be doable.

That's a mighty fine offer, and I appreciate the generocity, but I think I'm going to play with the .357 max cases (still have lots from when my chp was a maximum) if I have to go rimless. First order of business will be making chips and sawdust. If I can't turn it into something that I like owning, then I won't go much further.

Thanks once again though...

Here is something interesting. I measured the mono-block diameter of a Brno ZH204 in 12 ga. That diameter is 27 mm. I also measured the mono-block diameter of a ZBK110. That measurement is also 27 mm. So, based on these measurements, it is indeed possible to mount a 12 ga. barrel on a ZBK110 frame.

Hey, nothing wrong with a .22 Hornet. In fact, I've got a BRNO 22 Hornet bolt gun.

If it reads Brno, I can only assume it was made before the break-up of the Czech Republic. Now they're CZs, I think.

I'd put a schnable stock on that bad boy, some nice wood, and leave it as a Hornet, one of the most under-rated calibers around. With a 35 gr. BT, you can realize 3100 fps easily.

That reminds me of an upscale Savage 219. We had one back in the 50's in .22 Hornet. I forgot who owned it but it was a loner. The brass did not last for handloading as the Hornet is not good at that. Legend has it that one guy hit a crow at very long range with it. Luck of course.

I would not put much effort into that gun however to each his own. Falling block SS's are of more interest to me. Even a rolling block but not a break open SS.

Those break open rifles always seem to have headspace problems.

I think Bandukwallah did a nice job on his restoration. Not so sure about the rear sight; believe I'd went peep. But that's entirely preference.

It does looke like a Savage 219, and kind of like a Winchester single-shot shotgun.

I wanted to resurrect this thread so that we would remember how the project started.

I just picked up another ZBK 110 in .222 and am trying to decide whether to leave it as is or???
I see CZ is offering their Effect single shot - which appears to be the same rifle - in 30-06 and 308. Any one got any experience with those?

I was interested as well to see the Effect appear after my project. I think it's a lot like what I set out to change by zbk110 to be. It the timing was a bit different, I might not have done what I did, but I tend to think I still would as it wasn't so much of the rifle that I was interested in, but the project. If you're intereted in a better looking/performing rifle, I'd pay close attention to what those people with Effect experinece have to say. Even though I have no experience with the newer rifle, it seems that there are some up front differences: the monoblock on the Effect seems to be larger in outer diameter and thickness as well as longer. Following that, the breach block looks to be wider, with a correspondingly larger contact area. These initial differences may go a long way towards describing diffent upper limits of proofing.

By the way, what do you want to end up with?

Like you, the project has the most appeal and where the journey ends is not all that important. I looked at the Effect last year at SHOT and seem to think it was about the same size. I'll be sure to measure this year and ask what the difference is.
There is nothing wrong with the 222 just the way it is. Especially if it shoots OK. I'll put a scope on it this winter and find out.

I ordered an Effect scope mount from CZ-USA for my ZBK110. It fits beautifully, and, believe it or not, doesn't place the optical axis of the scope too high. I mounted a Burris 2.5x scope on the rifle and plan to try it out --- someday. I'll try to post photos soon.

I just heard from Jason, CZ's PR man, and he claims that the stocks and barrels from the Effect rifles will not fit the older 110's.
I just began slimming and reshaping the stocks and top tang and things are looking good. I may have a new triple deuce bear rifle.

Here is a photo of the mount and scope:

Looks like a nice light-weight mount. You know, that photo is really telling about how small the ZBK is if a 2.5 Burris looks that large on it!

Good luck with the project. If you figure out how to remove the break-down lever, PLEASE let us know! It is probably pretty simple, but without a schematic....

i'm thinking a 6.5 wildcat based on the .357 maximum case; not so much for more powder space, but for neck length/shoulder angle dalliance ...

Sounds interesting. Do you have any idea of the case capacity?

Sounds like it would be very close to the 6.5 TCU,..except with a rim.

+1 on being reminiscent of a savage. Speaking of Savage maybe chambering it in .250 Savage. Good little deer round with 100 grainers.

Also I wouldn't call it ugly, maybe unique. Put some nice wood on it and refinish the metal. A good gun to carry all day and if you do your part you won't need a second shot.