Looking at something new that I haven't done yet and noticed some recently made Model 1885 Traditional Hunters in 38-55, these have the factory mounted peep sights on them, Marbles I think. While my eyes are still good enough I've been really enjoying clanging steel with peep sighted rifles, but it's getting rather hard to find new rifles with a) open sights or a provision for same, b) barrels long enough to get that front sight far enough out for my eye to focus on and c) stocks with combs low enough to use peep sights. I know Sharps and various companies make a lot of nice replicas of old long barreled single shots but those get real spendy. The Winchester, while a bit pricey, is still within the upper limit of my comfort zone and fits all three criteria.

Looking at the .38-55 instead of a .45-70 since the bullets are lighter (less expensive lead per shot) and with that crescent butt plate I want to keep the recoil down. 250 gr. bullets at 1400 fps or so in a 9 pound rifle aren't going to loosen my teeth and wouldn't be punishing to send 30-40 rounds downrange in a morning.

The Winchester (Miroku) 1885 already has a pretty good rep overall but I was wondering if there was anything one should know about this specific caliber in this rifle? Never reloaded for a .38-55, in fact know next to nothing about it which is why the opportunity to learn attracts me to it. There are two case lengths offered, 2.082" and 2.125", why the difference and does anyone know which one the Winchester takes? Hornady lists the bullet diameter as .375 but other folks say the real diameter should be .378". Molds offered for 38-55 run .377" up to .380" diameter. Anyone know what the true bore diameter of the Winchester is? I'd probably shoot 99% cast so I could tailor the diameter to whatever is needed but the chance to shoot a jacketed bullet or two would be nice without having to special order something.

Other than those specific questions, any comments anyone wants to offer about this chambering in the Winchester would be appreciated.

I think I recall reading that they're .379, but just call them and ask. I'll bet that the info is also to be found on one if the sites devoted to either the 1885s or cast bullets.

This is what search engines are for.

Found this: https://www.shootersforum.com/rifles-rifle-cartridges/1594-38-55-winchester.html

I had a 38-55 Traditional Hunter with a 28 inch barrel for a while. It shot jacketed bullets very well, especially the 235 grain Speer (.375 inch) with a moderate load of Re7. I didn't experiment much with cast bullets, though it did shoot .376 cast reasonably well. That rifle was sold when I found the same rifle with a 22 inch barrel (the "Short Hunter") which handles much better for me. I just hope it shoots as well. It's been too cold and snowy to spend much range time with the new rifle.
I have read that the standard chamber for the 38-55 will handle either the short or long brass. My hand loads have used the 2.08 brass but I have also shot some old Rem-UMC ammo with the longer cases. No issues with either one.
Both rifles have been scoped using a Talley base and quick detach rings. Hopefully, that will allow the use of the tang sight when the scope is removed.
The Winchester 1885 in 38-55 is a great combination! I'm sure you will enjoy it.

I’ve had one for several years and really enjoy shooting it. It’s bored for .375 bullets and does really well with H-4895 and the Hornady 220 flat point (which I think has been discontinued) and the Sierra 200 flat point. I haven’t done much work with cast bullets but that’s in the plans. I had to scope mine; the old eyeballs don’t do very well with irons or peeps anymore.

It’s a really nice rifle with good fit/finish with a very solid action and good trigger. It’s a little heavy but I can deal with that and gives very little recoil.

Sounds like a great rifle, too bad someone bought it out from under me.

I had seen a gunbroker auction for a NIB Traditional Hunter 38-55 which was already priced at about the upper limit of my comfort zone. No one had bid on it so I figured to just meet the starting bid and see if the Universe wanted me to have it. While I was making the original post and checking on line for availability of brass, bullets, dies and such, someone hit the buy it now which was more than I really wanted to pay anyway.

Oh well, dem's da breaks.

There are some Traditional Hunters in .45-70 at auction for a bit less than the .38-55 was including one nearby which has no reserve and current bid under $800, but it has 10 days to go so that will change. 45-70 is my second choice so I'll keep looking for a 38-55 but a 45-70 would probably be as, if not more practical.

But thanks for the good feedback. I've been less than totally happy with some Ruger #1 purchases the past couple of years even with their better barrels these days, and now with new Rugers selling for as much as used but good shape 1885's it looks like I'll be searching for the latter more often.

Just stay away from the crescent-buttplate models unless you enjoy physical therapy.

Gunbroker is tricky. Sometimes you get snaked by lurkers, and sometimes you can place a half-assed just-in-case bid and end up a winner. I usually just bid the most I'm willing and able to spend and let it ride. Mostly now I just stay away to keep from making impulse bids.

If you really want the .38/55, keep at it. It took a long time for opportunity and resources to come together for me on my .44, but it finally did.

Yep, be patient and another will pop up. The crescent buttplate is no problem in the 38/55 but I’d be a bit leary of one in 45/70.

There's a "Short Hunter" twin of my rifle on GB now.
The 1885 with a recoil pad (the "Sporter" model, I think it's called) in 45-70 is very comfortable to shoot. Haven't tried, and don't think I want to try, the 45-70 with the crescent butt.

Take it from me, it's like being tomahawked in the shoulder.

Yeah, that's about what I expected. Sounds like fun.
Decades ago I shot a .50 caliber TC Hawken with the brass crescent butt. Being less sensible in those days, I'd return from shooting with a bruised shoulder that wouldn't allow more shooting for days.

2.125 was the original 38.55 brass length, most rifles would probably handle either. i have a winchester commemorative that is right at .375, but a winchester 1900 made take down that i have to guage but suspect it will be something like .3 78 or so, they are all over the map.
the 38.55 in 1900 was considered a target shooter's gun, they can be accurate.
i bought the legendary plainsman winchester without the box, but never been shot. friend and i took it out loaded with the barnes bullet i want to say without checking at about 1600fps, and set u p some clay pigeons at 100 to 125yards on a very windy day. Neither of us had any problems hitting them regularly. the 38.55 is the reason i ended up buying a marlin 375winchester, which is basically the 38.55 on steroids. In it i have the powder and bullets to push it to around 2300fps but havent done so yet.
Which i have done is the lyman 247 grain mould at about 1800fps. Dead butt accurate and you can hear the whomp when it hits something.
I like that caliber a lot.
the way the story goes, you can shoot the 38.55 ammo in the 375 but not the reverse, because of the pressure differences.
i call the 38.55 the "light" 45.70 and kind of think of it as a .308 to the 30.06.

One door closes etc...

Found this one in a Cabela's gun library in Ohio, Traditional Hunter in 38-55. It has much nicer wood than the one I had been looking at on gunbroker. Talked to the Cabela's guys here in Boise and in Ohio and they actually have a decent arrangement. I have to pay to have it shipped to Boise ($25, not a big deal) but once here I can look it over and decide if I really want to buy it or not, basically you get right of first refusal. So at worst I'm out 25 bucks but IMO that's a decent trade off to actually hold it in my hands before sending umpteen bucks off based solely on pictures. There would be no FFL fee on this end so that's a wash for the shipping charge. I would have to pay Idaho sales tax but Cabela's gives a 5% military/veteran discount which basically pays for the tax. The local guy also said they might be able to do better than what it's listed for - we all know how that goes but still, you never know. They'll ship it out tomorrow so it should be here Wednesday or Thursday.

Trust me, it's much more fun than that!😱

That's a beauty!

38-55 Brass

Jim,

You can also make 38-55 brass from 30-30. I forget how many grains of bullseye (or other fast powder), just a few,then find how much to fully blow the case walls out and then fill the case with cream of wheat and a tp wad and fire. It's been quite awhile... but I think the cases may have been shorter... really not an issue. You do want them all the same length though so that Your crimp is the same on all rounds.

Jerry

Thanks for the tip. So far I've only found Starline and Winchester brass, I think they are the only ones who make it. But fortunately two or three places have Starline brass in stock for a very reasonable price for such low demand brass.

Speaking of .30-30, I'm kind of surprised Winchester doesn't/didn't make their new Low wall in .30-30. Guess they figured there wasn't enough demand. The long range BPCR guys want the big bores and most folks thinking .30-30 will think of a lever action.

Quick Jim, buy these now!

https://www.ebay.com/itm/100-Cabelas-Gift-Card-For-Only-80-FREE-Mail-Delivery/292443230899?epid=13004447133&hash=item4416f992b3:g:sOMAAOSwEzxYRtS6

Save you another $60 (you can only buy 3 at a time, unless your wife buys some too ). They should get to you before you hafta pick up the rifle. I've used thousands of dollars worth.


*edit: Too late now, sold out. These come up for sale at a 18-20% discount every week or two. I buy and save them up, most of my Cabelas purchases are made with them

Starline sells direct, often for a bit less than the retailers, although retailers usually have smaller batches.

Starline handgun brass is all I buy.

When the rifle gets to your local Cabelas it never hurts to ask if they can do better on price. I have done that 3 times in the Avon Ohio store with surprisingly good results
I have 2 of the silver boxes of Winchester ammo and no 38-55 , perhaps we should talk

Got the rifle this morning and so far I am very happy.

Fit and finish are excellent and the wood is beautiful as the pics above show. It's got good figure and is a rich dark brown. This was used and there are some tiny safe dents in a couple of places but unless you look in good light you'd miss them, otherwise it looks brand new. Wood at the stock is a teensy bit proud of the receiver but that's only for a very critical eye, mostly everything sits flush and it's lots less proud than any current Ruger No. 1 I've looked at. The metal buttplate is absolutely flush. The previous owner adjusted the trigger down as low as it will go, it breaks at a very consistent (+- 1 ounce) 3 1/2 pounds, very crisp and minimal overtravel.

The bore is tight which is perfect for me. I slugged it first thing and going around three points groove diameter measures right at .3751". I'm thinking a cast bullet of my #2 alloy sized to .376" and fired in the 1400-1600 fps range should be the bees knees for this thing, plus normal .375" jacked bullets should do very well. Got a box of HSM Cowboy Action loads with it, that's a 240 grain RNFP but it doesn't say at what velocity. I wanted to slug the bore before placing an order for dies and bullets but wanted something to make it go bang this weekend.

Only possible fly in the ointment is that the Marbles tang sight wiggles forward and back in the upright position. Not a lot but it's there. That could cause some vertical stringing if it rests at a slightly different spot each time. You can see there is a groove in the bottom of the pivoting upright which apparently goes over a detent in the base. I'm going to call Marbles about that and see what they say. Another thing is that the aperture stem is threaded for a smaller insert than the normal .210" or so Williams and other apertures. Not a big deal but the factory aperture is pretty small and sometimes I like a larger one, again we'll see what Marbles has to offer.

Right now the rear buckhorn sight dovetail is soaking in BreakFree, it's in there tighter than a nun's you know what and I don't want to whack it too hard to remove it. It has to be removed or it's right in the way of the rear peep. That kind of surprised me, you'd think they'd offer a fold down rear but oh well.

Finally, got a real decent price on it. I did some homework on Cabela's ads on Guns International which show what a gun's price "was" and "is" for those that hadn't sold. The gun library guy didn't offer much off at first but I showed him the normal percentage drop I was seeing across the county for rifles which had sat a while, made an offer based on that and he accepted so I got a bit over $200 off the original price.


I've never been a die hard single shot guy and when I did get one it was a Ruger but so far this Miroku 1885 really impresses me. Haven't shot it yet but based on appearance and just "feel" it's an extremely well made rifle. I am very much a happy camper with my new toy here.



Btw, if anyone has any suggestions on how to tighten up that Marble's upright I'm all ears.

You probably know this, but just in case.....

Before you try to drift that sight, lift the leaf and carefully take out the elevator. Then put a piece of thin plastic, or Tyvek, or even oiled paper under the leaf to protect the barrel's finish. Also, use a proper brass drift and hammer to avoid whoopsies. Drift left to right, looking from the rear.

Did all that and done! It took some time but the BreakFree helped a lot.


Ran out to the range this afternoon for a quick session to shoot 20 rounds. I had worked up a drop chart with an on line calculator based on a guesstimated SD and MV which turned out to be close. Fired several rounds at 25 yards to get on target, then two shots at 50 to verify and then moved a new bullseye out to 100 yards. Three sighters on the right below to bracket final elevation, some windage adjustment and then the last eight shots in the box to see what it and I could do together. Those high ones make me wonder about that wiggly peep sight but overall I am not unhappy for a brand new to me rifle with ammo of unknown quality.

At 100 yards my elevation was within 5 clicks of being maxed out to hit center with a 6 o'clock hold, going to get the taller stem if I expect to take this to 200 yards and beyond. The stock drop was pretty much on, with the sight lower I had to scrunch my face against the comb but at max elevation I had a good head position and even a taller front sight will still leave a very good cheek weld.

As far as recoil and blast this thing is like a maiden's caress as some writer used to put it. Recoil is less than a .22-250 in a Ruger American and with that low pressure in a long barrel, muzzle blast was little more than a moderate crack.



Wind was kind of gusty and snappy, 15-20 mph from 4-5 o'clock according to the range wind station. Those eight shots went into 1.86" which ain't bad for my 65 year old eyes and a peep sight. I imagine with some load development this thing just might shoot pretty good.

Glad to hear you had success with your search for the 1885. That is beautiful wood on the rifle!
The cowboy loads are pretty low velocity. I forget the published number but your hand loads will probably be considerably faster. If your 38-55 is anything like mine, there will be a many inches of elevation difference between the different loads.
Will you be putting a scope on the rifle at any point? Next trip to the range, I'll be taking the scope off mine to see if the tang sight can be sighted in over the Talley scope base.
Please let us know the recipe if you find a load that works exceptionally well.
Enjoy!

That's good advice on waiting to see what the final trajectory looks like with faster loads before going to a taller stem. One cartridge out of the box I bought had a bad crimp that bulged the case so it woouldn't chamber, I pulled it and the charge was 21.4 grs. of a light gray short stick powder I didn't recognize; definitely not Reloder 7 or IMR 4198, with a 245 grain plain base bullet sized .279". With any appropriate powder it's definitely a light load.

Probably going to get Leupold scope bases (the much maligned STD with windage adjustable base) mount and put my old standby M8 12X on it for load workup. Those are the only ones I can find except the Talley and I don't want to get too fancy with the scope mounts since this was bought specifically for peep sight shooting. I'd get plain old Weaver bases but don't see any reference to an 1885 in the base chart on Weaver's website. If anyone can point me toward a decent base set at the lower end of the financial spectrum that would be great. They aren't for show, just temporary for load workup.

My .44 LW puts 240gr blooper loads using Trail Boss about a foot higher that full-power hunting loads, at 50 yards. Once I use up those swaged Hornadys, I'm switching to Laser Cast at a faster clip. I'll need to cut a bit off the Skinner blade I installed, like half!

Weaver lists scope bases for the Browning 1885. I put those on a heavy barrel, half octagon, half round Winchester 1885 low wall .22 lr. The hole spacing and fit on the low wall was perfect but the front base was a little low and needed some shimming. I think those bases might be a good fit on the Winchester high wall.

Thanks - I was looking under Winchester, since, after all, it's a Winchester. I guess Weaver doesn't see it that way...

Already placed two orders with Midway and Grafs for needed supplies, neither has all of what I need. Ordered the Leupold mounts from Midway. They will let me exchange items on my order since it hasn't been pulled, but they are completely out of both Weaver #11 and 29 bases. Graf's has plenty of 11 and 29 bases but they won't let me add those to my order. Maybe I can call them tomorrow before the order is placed. If all fails then I'm only out an additional $15.

Why go with a scope for load workup at all?

Seriously, if you are going to set the gun up for peep sight shooting anyway, put a decent tang sight on it along with a Lyman 17A Globe front.

With a globe aperture matched to a round bull that just fits inside it 100, you cannot help but shoot very tight groups. Save the glass for the rifls you own that have crappy or no irons.

I hear what you’re saying and know for a fact that one can shoot very decent groups with a globe sight and a round bullseye. A friend of mine once shot a 1.5” group at 100 yards from a .308 using nothing but scope rings – no scope, just the rings making two concentric circles and a round bullseye centered in those.

This rifle will mostly be used for steel whanging at 200 yards and sometimes longer, standard target will be a 12” square at 200 yards, the “longer” will be various sized pieces of round, square and rectangular steel out to 500 meters. Based on peep sight shooting with milsurps, lever actions and a couple of modern bolt actions so far, for square and rectangular targets a nice square blade lets the target sit right on top of it for a 6 o’clock hold.

Have lots of experience loading and playing with scope sighted hot shot centerfires but this is my first big punkin’ chunker (okay, medium punkin’ chunker ) so I’m easing in gradually and not wanting to drop a lot more bucks right away. If the existing wiggly Marbles peep serves okay then it will stay a while, and judging by initial results it should be “okay” for 200 yards.

However, last night I was researching what’s out there for target grade tang sights – it can be real easy to spend $350-$400 and up on a rear sight alone - and it seems Lee Shaver makes a nice “Economy Soule type” sight which gets good reviews on various forums. If/when I do upgrade that looks to be a good way to go without breaking the bank.

Do you still want a set of Weaver bases for the 1885? I found a set here that I have no use for. I won't be able to mail them until Thursday, but if you can use them, I'll send them out priority mail. You can send me a check for the postage after the bases arrive.
I'm not sure how the messaging system here works so please let me know the best way for you to get me your address if you do want the bases.

That’s a very kind offer and I do appreciate it, but the order for Leupold bases has already shipped. This is just a quick plug and play solution to get a scope mounted, from what I’ve read they fit well without any shimming. Also, they’d be available for my next 1885.

Ok. Good luck.