I grew up during the lead shot days. Early steel and our hard core thoughts of full choke were not a great combo. Over the years I've shot a bit of everything and for decoying ducks I've found that 3" Win. Supreme #2's (12ga.) and a Briley skeet tube in my Benelli SBE is about as good as it gets.

I spent yesterday watching a dozen people shoot at 40+ yd ducks in a moderate breeze. It is amazing how much shooting for so few ducks collected for the day. Lots of those ducks surely were hit, many probably fatally. My question is what are people using for passing ducks? I don't often shoot ducks that way but I'd like to know what to try if need be.

I hate to see anything shot that is not cleanly killed, I'd like to do my best-I have no doubt it gets done. I have patterened steel #2's and BB's at 40yds and it's not pretty.

This year I used Winchester Blindside, Kent Faststeel, and some Winchester X-Perts all in #2. I also used a Patternmaster long range choke in my Beretta 390. I had very few cripples no matter what the load. The Blindside stuff worked very well. I made several 40+ yard shots this year. I am going to get an extendd range tube next year for the early morning Wood Duck flight where they sometimes fly very high.

I was shooting #3 steel at 1,550 through a MOD choke, and hitting them hard, at about 50 yards.

I do mostly pass shooting with 1550 fps #2 steel through a Patternmaster Extra Long Range tube.....and same in T shot for high cranes. I had quit waterfowl hunting until I came across this combo and surprised myself how far I can kill a bird.

Kent Faststeel.. I like feet down.. I will rarely shoot at 40 yards....

Kent Faststeel #4 2-3/4" Love them feet down and bellies up!

I still shoot the same 1450fps loads, I just switch to a Briley EXR choke

We all like em feet down... we don't always get em that way...

3.5 inch 1s in either my 12 or my 10 for the bluebird days.

Not being able to choose what will happen on a given day, its also why I typically have multiple boxes with me.. from 6s to Ts at times just depending...

Pass shooting for me, 4s wont' get it done, 3s will, 2s seem a bit more impact as do 1s. I don't like BBS or larger for ducks....

Lead #4's......loaded in Bismuth marked hulls.

Now thats good. I liked lead 5s just a bit better than 4s and wasn't averse to good 6s either, having killed more than a few turkeys with 6s out to 60 steps.

I shoot Hevi Metal and Kent Fast Steel (both #2's) out of Rhino Mod choke.
I use a Rhino IC choke with Hevi Metal #4's for shooting the feet down decoying ducks (which is what I would rather shoot).
I am shooting 3" shells out of a Beretta Extrema II

3 inch. Winchester x-pert number 2's with a modified extended tube, out of a 26" barreled 870.

40-60yds, 1 3/8oz BB's @ 1300fps Briley Imp. Mod. Chokes to xtra full pattern.

I use #3's to about 40-45 yards, after that I switch to #1's.

I have tried lots of factory and handloaded #2's and just can't get a good pattern.

I used a long-range 12 gauge Pattern Master tube and 3" WIN Drylok #3's and #4's in Arkansas last week - much better performance by the #3's - next year going to emulate the local's and go to #2's (after doing some patterning).

Thanks for all the great advice. I like to shoot them with their feet down also, seldom pass shoot but I like to know what works. It looks like, as with turkey hunting, aftermarket chokes are a big plus.

Kent Fasteel 3 1/2" #2's out of a Kick's full .705 choke

Factory chokes work just fine.

Factory work fine, but they often do not give the very best.

Kind of like saying you can use a factory 308 heavy barrel for 1000 yard shooting, and sometimes you find a hummer, but typically if you want the best you have to go non factory.

Patterning is the big key, factory or aftermarket if you don't pattern you have no clue. YOu have to test ammo and or tweak reloads to get to the best and it never hurts a shot charge to run though a longer choke tube vs a shorter one.

Of course if they are all within 20 to 30 yards you could just do it all with 2.75 inch 6s and probably just leave the choke tube out...

loads and chokes go hand in hand. Not ever hand fits every glove, just like not every choke work well with every shell. Rost495 is right you have to pattern some to see what does and does not work.

High velocity loads work fine for close kills but to get large shot in heavy doses to stay in tight patterns the loads need to be slower.

I have patterned more then enough guns and have never seen an after market choke tube pattern better enough to justify me buying them. You can argue that all you want with yourselves but seeing with my own eyes you ain't changing my mind.

Don't even get me started on those Muller chokes either.

What works for one doesn't always work for others. And what some demand is more or less than what others demand.

Never heard of a muller though so you may well be spot on there!

I know my 10 does WAY better with an aftermarket tube than the factory tubes.

Kent Fasteel #2. I use either Briley, Terror, or Wad Wizzard tubes.

Count me in the Kent Fasteel fan club. The #2s out of a modified choke hit em hard.

Remington Nitro-Steel 3" 1300fps 1 3/8 #2s I-Mod Briley out to 45. BB's beyond.

I just bought a box of Kent Faststeel #2 to pattern - the 12 gauge, 3", 1-1/4 oz., 1425 FPS load. Which load are you Kent shooters using?

I have been shooting the 12 ga 3-1/2" with 1 and 9/16 oz of #2 shot.
Advertised at 1300 fps. solid kills to 45 yards

Kent fasteel 2-3/4" #4's and 2-3/4" #2's.

#4's for duck

#2's for Geese

Now that we have all that out of our systems... Anything passed 40 yards is sky busting.. You cripple more birds then you know.. Birds that you will not see move or rock.. They simply go off and die.. Never mind the fact that you are educating more birds then not.. This is very unethical.. Sorry guys it had to be said.. The worst thing that can happen is a lucky shot and the ding-ding is thinking that he is a waterfowler... Never mind the fact that 40 yards will turn into 50+ yards...... There are ding-dings that show up each year at the public blinds in the little marsh that is in the head of the gunpowder river in Maryland.. Soon after these "rubberheads" show up and start shooting the birds get out in a week or go nocturnal.... They ruin it for everyone AND to the man they think they are not sky busting ....

Well put Cigar, I want to shoot ducks decoying with their feet down. I am not mad at any ducks, and I'm happier to not shoot them then to have them go away to die. Wish more folks felt that way. There are still folks around, even after all these years, that remember when a 40 yd duck was easily killed. And I see it happen some even now, but not nearly as cleanly. It's amazing what a difference there is from 30yds to 40yds, especially in a strong wind.

Cigar I agree. The problem is most of those "rubberheads" couldn't tell you what 40 to 60 yards is.

I always set a single deke out at 40 yards so I have a marker.... and wont' shoot past that unless I feel a bird is crippled. It also tells you when you can start your shot... hope like heck you get em at least 10 yards or more inside that marker before you move....

Though IMHO if you hit the bird with a solid pattern at 40 yards, given say at least 5-6 pellets of #2 steel, that bird will never fly away... Of course they don't die like they did with lead either...

rost495 I would not call you a "rubberhead".

I think I am going to adopt that term, I like it. LOL

Love the 3" 1 1/8oz 1560fps loads.

I do the same thing when hunting over water.. On land sometimes we are forced to have a rig of 6/700+ decoys... Then birds are in the pocket big time....

Of course but if you could do that consistently at 120 yards that would not be sky busting that bird would be in range...

I hunted with lead for years then when the government made steel mandatory for 12ga I dropped to a 16ga.. I can remember the gentlemen showing up at the gunshop angry with steel shells for blowing out their high end doubles.. The 1st steel shells were junk sometimes not shoot or pattern erratic... At times they would rust together and end up like a steel slug.. Cripples everywhere.. God it was awful.. Some old timers quit gunning..

You said it I do think some of these new/old shells like Hevi/Bismuth are just as effective as lead.. Except lead has take'en on lure of it's own... Guys think we never had a cripple..

I can remember chasing a Black Duck all over a marsh in Wachepeague, Va one day a long time ago.. I can't remember how many shots it took to get him in the boat.. It was more then a handful ....

Rubberheads don't put out a range marker.. They just shoot and move their head in an unpredictable repetitive fashion violating all the rules of concealment..

I guess we have white rubberheads down here.... I get my paint or face mask and paint on, gloves, chew my nephew for moving, teaching him when they are way out and coming get your gun ready slowly, then when within committing range dont even breath no matter what(well you can breath) but dont' adjust gun etc. until ready to shoot, then do it all at once.....

The rubberheads here don't wear gloves, or face cover and skygawk.... WTF good does the rest of your camo duckblind bla bla bla do? I'd be better off in tan carharts with face and gloves covering up the white.... than the best camo and white faces....

Used to always rib a black state trooper that hunted wiht us that it wasn't fair tha the didn't need face paint or gloves.....

We put up pieces of cane as a 40 yrd marker. One thing that has to be remembered, if the duck is at your 40 marker and is up in the air 15 to 20 yards, he is not a 40 yrd shot.
When I started hunting, we used lead and I was taught to take a good shot or don't shoot. With steel 30 yards and in have a lot better chance of success than 40 yards and longer.
With the coming of the 3.5" shells some guys think they can take ducks at 60 yards or more. I heard one guy say that the only reason he shoots 3.5" is because they don't make a 4".....
I have no problem with anyone shooting 3.5" shells as long as they do it at birds that are in a high precentage range. I have more than once stood up to shoot at birds only to set right back down because the shot just did not look as good once I got into position.
I guess it all boils down to this for me, you have to respect the game you hunt. For me that means taking high precentage shots and killing the bird (or whatever) as quickly and cleanly as I can. I spend a huge amount of time at the skeet,trap, and sporting clays range every year to make sure I have my shooting skills as good as I can in order to do this.

I need to practice, I come from a competitive long range rifle background for many years, being pretty much at the top of the pack so to speak, generally in the top 100 in the nation. THe problem there, shotgun is totally bass ackwards.... I need help there bad, but refused to take time until I quit rifle competition.... Shotgun breeds BAD rifle habits...

So now I need to work on the shotgun skills.

And yes, I"ve passed up more than a few birds that once you drew down on them you realized, nope, not in range....

And yep, well aware of slope distance vs horizontal. 40 yard marker just makes me think, lets be 10 inside that for sure and hopefully 20, and by the time we move and shoot, hopefully we are at 30 or so....

The problem with ducks, for me at least, is the multitude of angles you get. its never simple crossing shots.....

What I wouldn't give to shoot a season with some kind of glowing pellets so I could learn what the heck is going on.

Now back to practice.... do you shoot 1500 fps loads but practice with 1200 fps loads? The more I think about some of this that seems defeating totally.... I should either load really fast lead to practice with, or shoot the slower heavier payload steel shells.... seems like you should practice with the same speed. And I dont' really want to shell out 10 bucks a box on steel to shoot trap/skeet...

You can practice the needed leads with 1200 fps 7 1/2s target loads on a skeet range on stations 3,4&5 by backing up the appropriate distance. Check the ballistics for elapsed time of flight to a given distance for your steel load and then for the target load back up from station 3,4 or 5 so the ET is the same as your steel load at a chosen hunting distance. Our gun club used to have skeet machines on a 100' construction elevator that we could raise the machines from the ground to 100'. The tower machine range was very popular with all of our conscientious wingshots but we were restricted to 7 1/2s or smaller shot so we adjusted.

rost495 Head down, shoot in front and SLAP the trigger..
If you are going to miss miss in front.. Now I have to admit my eyes move independently when waterfowl work the decoys.. I can't help it...
I suggest sheet and regular cheap 9s for shells.. You just need trigger time.. There are exercises you can do to help you to keep your head down.. Brake the target and shoot the largest chip.. That will force you to keep your head down.. The old saw; You can brake 499 targets out of 500.. You could call me on the phone 100 miles away and ask why you missed the 500th target?? I would say you lifted your head.. I would be right 80% of the time..






pullit lol... I am going to use skygawk....

Cigar come on you would be right 90%

You could be right... Wood to Wood is the trick..

Head on the stock, eye on the "rock"....

in rifle that would be a cheek or spot weld required.

I know I"m guilty of lifting my head a lot. AND to totally stopping the follow through on the shot.

Rifle shots... for the reason of so many eveyr year, I follow those through just perfectly it seems...

I'm one of those dumbazzes born every day when it comes to shotguns...

Good thread, I am reading that the experience of others pretty much parallels my my own.I do most of my waterfowling on a small creek outside of town. In the past 4 years I have found that more is not allways better. Imp cyl and mod on the Red Label 12 get most of the action. I find that 3's give me cleaner kills past 30 yds. If they are in your face because of a NW wind the 1 1/16oz 2 3/4" Kent load really works well for me. Out to 40 yds though the 2's in the same load are better, wish Kent would pull their head outta their ass and put 3's in that load. I use it alot in an older 2 3/4" Wingmaster with a Imp cyl choke. Most of my 3" guns use 3" 1 1/8oz loads at over 1500 fps well in 2's.When it comes to steel loads I just can't say brand Y is better than brand x cause none of them are all that good. Kent tungsten Matrix and Heavy -Shot are great though in premium non-toxics. Magnum man

I've made the switch to tungsten. I'm pushing an ounce of #5 tungsten at a smoking 1300fps through a full choke. I'll never shoot steel again. For Geese, I bump it up to 1-1/4oz of #2 at 1200fps. I've said goodbye to recoil and realize that I must have been wounding a lot of birds before.

Regardless, within 40 yards, any common loading of 1-1/8oz #2 steel going over 1400fps with put the bird in the bag. Past that becomes unethical. One can shoot a bigger load, but the pellets lack energy. Choose a larger shot and you lose pattern density. YMMV.

Interesting article I came across (was posted on Shotgunworld) that discusses wound ballistics and waterfowl hunting.

http://www.randywakeman.com/WoundingBallisticsfortheWingshooter.htm

I have watched many hunters not shoot at birds well inside 40yds because they think they are out of range. They think 15yds is 25yds and 25yds is 40yds. My best guess is to them a mallard at 40yds must look like a hummingbird

For the last 30 or so years, I've shot a Beretta A302 with a 26" IC barrel, mostly using Kent FastSteel 4s. That combo has been very, very effective out to 40 or so yards, though I've killed many birds well beyond 40 with that outfit.

This year, I was curious to see at what distance I was really shooting at waterfowl, including geese.. I borrowed a laser range finder from a friend and was shocked to see what geese look like at 100 yards, 200 yards, and the like.. I also figured out that the decoys around our blind, the ones that were set the furthest out, were well within gun range at a mere 35 yards out.

Once I figured out what the birds looked like at the distances they were actually at, it gave me an idea about what kind of lead I should be giving them and my shot effectiveness actually went up. There were few birds that decoyed within range that got away unless I had only enough time for a "snap shot".