I have just returned to waterfowl hunting after about a 10 year absence (hunting upland/big game) and one the last couple of trips to the goose blind I have been very impressed with the #2 and #BB Bismuth loads from my O/U 10 ga. Now, I know that Bismuth is no longer available but what about some of the newer non-toxics? Or has steel improved to the point where the heavier stuff is not needed. I only have 8 rounds of Bismuth left (it was the stuff loaded by Winchester) and was $23 for a box of 10. Probably bought around 2000 or so. Thanks for any suggestions.

when the hell did bismuth go away?

High speed #1s for our small geese. Specks and Snows mostly. Get em in close enough and its HELL on geese. Plenty of pellets too.

BTW what i hear, the dense tungsten is really cats azz... supposedly a number of folks have figured out the dense stuff will kill big canadas 100 yards out if you get all the rest of it right... thats a LONG way, but tungsten is DENSE.

I've been shooting Very light loads (7/8 oz.) of ITX #4 and #6's out of my old 12ga hammer gun, 65mm chambers. It has been devastating on ducks and geese. I'm having one of my best years. Lots of birds around doesn't hurt. Most of my birds have been one shot kills and the dog has been having pretty easy retrieves.

Yesterdays morning tide.



My loads

Nice shotgun and nice bag. Congratulations.

rost - is someone still making bismuth?

Is that the tungsten matrix?

I don't know if they are still making it but Precision Reloading has Bismuth and Nice Shot, both soft non-toxics for older shotguns.

http://www.precisionreloading.com/m..._Code=PRE&Category_Code=BISMUTH_SHOT

Ballistic Products carries ITX shot, another soft non-toxic shot that is safe for older shotgun barrels.

http://www.ballisticproducts.com/Original-10-Shot/products/730/

Rio is loading Bismuth

Rio Bismuth

If you are hunting cautious ducks on public land, steel sucks. It works great for decoying birds, but if you have to pass shoot, not so much. I have considered making the switch to hevi-shot or some of the other quality loads, but I still have a couple of cases of steel.

If your shooting a newer shotgun designed for steel and just want the better performance of the heavier shot I would look more at Hevi Shot or ITX Hevi-13 both heavier than lead.

How is the Rio ammo? I have not heard of it before.

Interesting on the ITX shot. I had not heard of it before. For the non-handloader, does anyone load ITX?

Not that I know of.

Here's a list of heavier than steel soft non-toxic loads.

RST loads NICE SHOT(they also have low pressure 2.5" loads)

Kent Loads Tungsten Matrix

Gamebore, Tungsten Matrix

Hevi Shot, Classic Doubles

RIO, Bismuth

Fiocchi, Tundra Tungsten Matrix.

That is a great summary, thank you!

Hevi -shot(tungtsen based) is awesome, but expensive. Honestly I shoot federal blue box or Estate steel with a patternmaster tube and absolutely crush birds

federal blue box is all I use.

The 10ga takes deep pockets to feed with anything other than steel. If you are going to do it. ITX10 in BB is the most cost effective pellet and it is soft. Reloading for the 10ga is the most cost effective option. With just a few box's of shells you will pay for the equipment with savings. Look up the MEC 10ga Steel Master and then run the costs on ingredient on the Ballistic products website. You get about 75 1 1/2oz loads per 7lb ITX10 at $153.90 = $2.05 per shell for the shot then add shipping and powder, wads, primers for another $.045 per shell gets you in the $2.50 per shell area.

There are some days out there, that federal blue box just won't cut it. Though its about all I use. Was 99 a case last year, think it was 119 a case shipped this year.

hard to beat around 100 bucks for a case of 3 inch steel.

Steel BB will penetrate through a big Canadian goose at 50 yards.
Steel #2 will penetrate through a big Mallard duck at 50 yards.

Further than that, you need the dense stuff, specifically Tungsten or "High Density."

I make a lot of 50 yard shots on ducks with steel 2s. lead 4s or even lead 6s would work MUCH better.

but if you have to push further out there, and sometimes you do if you want to take ducks home, then steel starts to suck pretty bad.

Wished I could shoot steel 4s all year and have ever duck cupped up at 35 yards or less... but I"m a realist.

I have only 8 rounds of old Winchester Bismuth BB left, so will probably have to do something different. I don't shoot enough to justify the cost of handloading for the 10 gauge alone.

I again see I see people wanting their equipment to make up for hunting skill, as we've seen in archery(compounds and sights), muzzle loading(inlines and scopes), modern rifle big game(insanely powerful cartridges, lazer range finders even lazer scopes). Waterfowling, 3.5" heavier than steel, semi autos to really reach out there.

Learning to hunt ducks and put them on the "X" dropping them at 20 yrds DEAD is so much more rewarding than banging away at 50 yrds and seeing them rock and keep going or fall,swim away or dive and and spend the next 20min chasing them around and trying to swat them on the water.

I HUNT NOTHING BUT PUBLIC LAND, but I've spent a lot of time finding "X" where no one else is hunting. Back corners, skinny water that only holds a couple of decoys, areas you can't get to in a 16ft jon boats, decoy rigs that no one else uses, rivers near big public areas that ducks escape to, willing to pack a bag of decoys a long way, hunting on days nobody is there and on and on.

Taking longer and longer shots just makes ducks fly higher and farther from the shore. I have a spot that I hunt that is just a couple of hundred yards from a very popular point that I'm constantly going to and picking up all the spent hulls. when the ducks fly the shoreline you can see the swing way out around the point even when no one is there, yet where I'm at with no blind just sitting on the open shore without even any grass to hide in and y dog laying along side me the duck have no problem sailing into the decoys.

I shoot 13/16 oz of ITX 4's or6's out of a very old hammer sxs or a 20ga sxs with steel 4's. I do very well and have a lot of fun and very little frustration. I seldom stay long enough to limit out but rarely come home empty handed, once I've got a few ducks in the bag for dinner it's time to rest the area. Limits are those days that they go nuts trying to get into the decoys in a short period of time.

Niice back action!
i use Bismuth in my 12 bore Westley Richards hammer double but also shoot a W.R. bar in wood 10 bore for geese.
110 grains of FFG and 1 1/4oz of 2/s work fantastic in it!
Cat

Great stuff nothing better than an old hammer gun. Our forefathers weren't hurting in the firearms department just transportation.

HHA ! Yup, She's a fine gun, and not nearly as heavy as the newer ones or some of the other vintage guns I have shot.
My buddy just got a W&C Scott that is a full 10 3/4lbs!!
The chamber walls are 1/4" thick on that gun, and the barrels are incredibly smooth and even when we ran the thickness gauge through it.
That gun was a magnum in its day!
My 10( the one in the pic) was likely made when the were using lighter loads as well, I have no problem shooting 12 bore sized loads through it and it carries quite nicely.
Cat

Boss shotgun shells. Made in usa and great customer service. Bismuth shot shells.