I was sitting in my office at home, wondering when I can get back to the range. I decided to pull out one of my Lee Loaders and do some measurements. I have 200 7.62x54r Lapua cases, some of which I had fired in my MNs several years ago. For fun, I measured the before and after measurements after neck resizing with a Lee Loader and a collet die. The Lee Loader resizes to a fixed diameter, while the collet die can be adjusted to grip a few thou tighter or looser. I also tested the runout after resizing with both dies. I wanted to see if tapping out the brass might effect the neck straightness. It didn't.

The measured cartridges were fired from my 91/24 Civil Guard rifle, the "Lotta Rifle". It was called the Lotta Rifle because the 91/24 was purchased by the Finns using money raised by the Civil Guard Ladies Auxiliary. The auxiliary was called, The Lotta Svard. Apparently, this rifle is now worth some money, so I do not want to fire it anymore, except with cast bullets.

The first pic shows the approximate diameter of the fired case neck.



Here is the neck sizer from the Lee Loader set and a case..



Here is the collet die in my little Lyman press.




This last pic shows the approximate resized diameter of the neck. I was surprised that the 7.62x54r Lee Loader is still available for sale. According to the Lee Precision site, there are 13 Lee Loaders still in production. Of course, other LLs no longer in production are available on places like ebay.

The necks were tight when loading .311 bullets with the Lee Loader, but will be perfect for seating 308 bullets. In my notes, I recorded the neck thickness as 0.012 inches. The resized inside diameter is 0.306 inches (give or take 50 ten thousandths. ) I neck resized 5 cases with my new collet die to give it a dry run after cleaning it up. Most people will prefer to use some kind of die in a press, but Lee Loaders are still useful, if only to kill time at the range. They are very compact.

This is begging me to order an Encore barrel!



Here are the Lee Loaders still being made.

CARTRIDGE

9mm Luger -- **44 Magnum
38 Special -- **45 Auto
357 Magnum -- **45 Colt

** requires considerable force when sizing

223 Remington -- 7.62 x 54 Russian -- 308 Winchester -- 30/06 Springfield -- 303 British
243 Winchester -- 270 Winchester -- 45/70 Government -- 30/30 Win (30 Rem)

I have a couple of Lee Loaders but its been many years since I've used one. Their compact size was a perfect fit when I spend months at a time on my remote trapline. My father in law bought me one of those Lee hand presses and that kind of made the Lee Loaders obsolete. One thing that I carried over from the Lee loader days is the use of the Lee dippers. I have a reloading scale, but almost never use it. I use the Lee dippers for all my reloading and have for years.

I got my first Lee Loader, for the 303 British, in 1965. I still use Lee Loaders, now and then. I have a Herters kit, in 22-250, which looks just like a Lee Loader and which, I suspect, is a copy which may have infringed on some patents. GD

Steve:
Good morning to you my cyber friend, I hope the day looks to be favorable in your locale and you and yours are doing as well as can be.

Thanks for the thread on Lee Loaders sir, like quite a few folks my first hand loading was done with a Lee Loader.

If I remember, next time I'm down in the reloading room I'll count up how many I still have stashed in their boxes. The company sort of split for a bit in the '80's and some of mine are in cardboard boxes marked "Mequon" but they look like Lee Loaders for all intents and purposes.

When I bought my first press, I modified a few of the Lee sizing dies by silver brazing a washer on the bottom and threading the whole die body so I could put them into a press and use them after a fashion. Of course the ram couldn't go all the way to the top and if one wasn't careful the case shoulder got too much of a bump back, but that was part of the reloading learning curve back in those pre-internet dinosaur times.

Thanks again for the reminder of my reloading roots Steve. I hope you all have a fine weekend.

Dwayne

Some of us did start with them. They were a useful tool, and still are.



Because I was in the service, Lee Loaders made it easier for me to transport reloading equipment when I was on temporary duty somewhere in North America - meaning away from my regular base - or on a course. I could carry the Lee Loader, a hammer, some powder, primers, and bullets, in less space than a shoe box. I haven't counted, but I have over 30 of them, including several older Lee Custom Engineering cardboard boxes, and two Lee Zero Error Kits in 303 British. The majority are plastic boxes though, and most aren't made anymore because presses and conventional dies became more widely available.

When I taught reloading, I gave away Lee Loaders. I bought many sets in common calibres like 223, 308, 30-06 and 303 British, and distributed them to people who could use them. They were used by new and experienced reloaders alike. To call them merely a learning tool is unfair. For thousands of hunters, they were a perfect way to load cartridges that harvested untold numbers of deer, moose and other animals every fall.

They were a space saver, as mentioned earlier, but they were so much more. One of the nicer aspects was that people new to the hobby could get a better, call it more intimate, look at the process. Because Lee Loaders didn't require a lot of space, they could be used in apartments, bedrooms, hunt camps, gun ranges, wherever. And they were cheap. Another huge plus. I encouraged their use at the range on busy days. Shooters rotating off the line, or waiting for their turn could punch out spent primers, examine their cases for damage and measure them for stretch with a set of calipers. It helped pass the time and was useful. Except at competitions, you don't see that as much as in days of yore.



I have said this for years, and have even mentioned it here: cartridges assembled using Lee Loaders do not suffer from runout. They are a simple piece of round stock with a hole drilled through the middle. WRT how bullets are seated in the case necks, there is precious little difference between the Lee Loader and the Wilson Seater.



When I started accumulating them the the 1970s, most hunters used bolt actions and shotguns, so they were perfect for their needs. Times changed however. More shooters use autoloaders these days, or don't want to use a slower method. You will get more arguments about using the Lee Loader because of what reloaders perceive to be the disadvantage of slower speed. It's not, but I have had many discussions about the advantage of bench presses. Sadly, they miss the point. Not everyone wants or has the space for a bench press. Not everyone can take a press with them hunting or to the range. Not everyone realizes that neck sizing is a viable alternative for many reloaders. Few people shoot competitively. Oddly, there are some people who just like to sit in front of the fire or at home neck sizing their cases.

They are not for everyone, but like many other things, they had their followers. They are still as useful as they were in the past - as a learning aid, a space saver, and a money saver. Unfortunately, people do not appreciate their value, their place in history, or the sheer number of ideas the Richard Lee came up with that were studied by other companies.

Dwayne, you and others might be interested in this little snippet of Lee History. It will explain, in part, what happened to the company, the difference between Lee Custom Engineering and the present Lee Precision.

http://gunlore.awardspace.info/gunknow/LeeTools.htm

Lee Loaders are one of those things that are way more fun than they should be for the task at hand. Making quite good ammo into the bargain is a bonus. Quite a few live in my house, including a very well used .303 Brit set. When the birthplace James Paris Lee's most enduring invention is only an hours drive west, one owns an Enfield or two.

I have around 40 Lee Loaders and still use them from time to time.

Scott

In my first one, the powder measure is turned aluminum; the later ones are plastic. My first reloading was done with a Lyman 310 nutcracker which I also still use. GD

One of the reasons I got into reloading. I bought Remington 30-06 in 1980, and learned to shoot at the local garbage dump/ rifle range. My brother's instructions were squeeze the trigger gently and it should come as a surprise when it goes off. A few boxes of 180gr and standing at 100 paces I would get a 5" group . One of my co-workers said " You got some brass. How 'bout trading some for a box of reloads ?" It sounded like $20 helluva deal to me. "Sure !". He used a Lee Loader and even weighted them. The group size dropped to 2 1/2 " At the time I still considered that poor shooting, it was miss after all. That is with factory iron sights

^ ^ ^ that's ^ ^ ^ the biggest problem I've noticed with
folks trying to load ammunition these days
Quite a few I've helped to get started don't load or
do case preparation or inspection or powder
measurement in a place free of distractions.
Then, they can't figure why they had a misfire
or a round won't chamber, or gets stuck, etc.

I think fewer people are inclined to do things themselves. There is so much going on around the under 50 crowd - computers, tweets, emailing, texting, etc. The world is chopped up into smaller bites, so taking an hour to reload some cases is less attractive than it used to be. That's a shame. Fewer humans able to do simple things like replacing the knob on a cupboard door.

I started loading with a .44 mag LL. Later, I added Lee Target Loaders in 7x57 and .223. All of those are sadly long gone.

Now I have LLs for .22 Hornet, .243, and .30/06. I probably should fill in the ones I lack that are still in production, as they are very handy to have around. The last few ‘06s I had were fed by sizing in the LL, then seating bullets with an RCBS .308 Competition die, without the extended shellholder. Worked very well, even in a pump.

A drill press can serve as a arbor press in a pinch.

J.B. recently posted that the most accurate .22 Hornet loads he ever put together were with a Lee Loader. Little cases like that are very easy to work with; not much hammering required. Never liked the priming method much, so one of the old-style Lee priming tools was added pretty quickly and along with a second one, still gets some use.

Good thread, Canadian Steve.

Thanks. JB must have been reading my stuff.

Most of us do, for some reason or other....

I also started with them. Now, I'm starting to collect them I wanted a .30-30 kit badly and it cost me $80 on ebay.

Ouch! I thought my older Zero Error and xardboard boxed sets might be worth a little. It sounds like the plastic boxes are worth something.

ahh the joy of reloading my 351 Winchester with one, and setting off the primers each time, till my late brother showed me that i had to hold it tighter when seating primers, and not letting it bounce. Duh

Still have it, and one in 410 shotgun and one in 22/250.

Best part of using them is No Lube ! Edk

That's for sure! Not needing lube was what got me to try the Lee collet die when it was just coming out. I had two sent to me and couldn't believe how easy they were to use.