I see where a 195 pound wolf has been killed at a bear bait in Alberta and have read that a 175 pound wolf was killed in Alaska.

But I once read many years ago that a 200 pound wolf was shot in the Yukon but have lost the refrence.

Does anyone know about the Yukon wolf?

There are three photos of the big Alberta wolf at www.huntandtell.com slugged Huge wolf.

Its a real monster and apparently the story has already been written up in one outdoor magazine. Most blogs say it weigh 195 pounds.

We need to have wolves included in all trophy record books to find out where the largest ones come from.

I suspect they live in northern Alberta, Saskatchewn and the southern North West Territories - specifically within the range of the wood buffalo.

They kill adult wood buffalo which are much larger than cape buffalo.

These wolves have always had a reputation for great size and in olden days Canadian publications like "Rod and Gun in Canada" their huge size was noted and they were sometimes called "Siberian wolves" to try to explain their exotic nature and huge size.

The wolves that used to live on the western plains were much smaller and early accounts pretty well all say they only hunted buffalo calves.

The wolves in Alaska have either not yet learned how to kill adult wood bison or else they are too small.

Using skull measurements, I believe many of the largest run the McKenzie River. Within the wood bison range.

I think the exaggerated size of this wolf is due to camera angle.
Obviously taken from ground looking up.


A friend of mine has trapped hundreds of Alaskan wolves.
He also communicates with several Canadian fur trappers.
He swears that his wolves are bigger as per Bergman's law that states that the further north you go, the larger the body size.



I think they about top out at 150lbs.
A wolf can reportedly hold 40 lbs of meat in it's stomach.
Maybe closer to 20 IMHO.
But anyhow I do know that if you shoot one with a full belly you will be much closer to those weights mentioned above.

The further north you go the smaller the prey. White arctic wolves are much smaller than timber wolves. Skull size would be the most legitimate way of comparing. Weight is silly when you watch a bunch clean up a moose over night.
BTW
You can go further north in Canada than Alaska.

Bergman's law does not always apply. For example it is true with that whitetailed deer get larger as you go north. Tropical whitetails in Guatemala are very small and Saskatchewan whitetails are very large.

But with other species it does not work. For example, jaguars from southern Brazil and the Apure Illanos savannahs in Venezuela are twice as large as jaguars from northern Mexico.

A few years ago, in March, I was tracking a very large wolf on snowshoes. He kept out of sight, but his tracks indicated I stopped him at one point with a call. I finally had to quit tracking as he went into a very thick tangle that didn't permit me to go there on snowshoes.

There was a fresh fall of snow about 2-3" deep over a hard crust. Under the crust was another 2 to 3 ft of snow. Mostly he walked on top of the crust, but would break through occasionally. I took off my snowshoes and found I too could walk on the crust, and break through once in a while.

I measured his walking stride from right front to left rear, and it was well over six feet! He was a lone wolf, that I never caught up with. But I estimated his weight at 150 lbs.

Last March I came across two wolves, a large one and a smaller, darker one, in that same general area, but they were just a bit TOO friendly. Both were collared and wearing transmitters. They had been penned and released. I tracked them for a bit but decided to leave them alone. I had a license and a rifle with me. I enjoy wolf hunting in the Haliburton Highlands during the winter months. In that area, however, you must have a license. Otherwise, I could hunt them year round on a small game ticket.

Bob

www.bigbores.ca

I've tracked some "whitetail" that was wearing high heels, but wolves in snowshoes is new to me.....

For YOUR reading comprehension, I'll rearrange the wording: ON SNOWSHOES, a few years ago, in March I was tracking a VERY large WOLF that was pulling a toboggan with a big buck white-tail in it!

Bob

www.bigbores.ca

You cant imagine JPro how the thing are wrong up in the north since the global warming occurs or not lol ...!!!

TFF

Dear CZ 550,

Isn't the area you hunt the place where those so called "red wolf" (feral dogs) hybrids live?

I thought the weighed about 70 pounds tops?

Alaska wolves will never learn to kill Woods Bison unless they get introduced... we do not have them here...

Actually, we have three species: 1)Timber wolf (to which I was referring); 2)Coyote and 3)"Coy dog", "brush wolf" (so-called down east)or whatever. Some biologists insist they are just overgrown coyote, others say they are the result of coyote breeding with dogs, and still others are confused like the rest of us. But, one thing's for sure: wolf, coyote and "brush wolf" are all found in the same ecological system. In other words, they compete, but both coyote and brush wolf (60 to 80 lbs) will vacate the immediate area when a (real) timber wolf moves in! Timber wolves have been sighted south of where I live. I've seen two, one in mid-afternoon crossing a major highway, a few yards directly in front of me, and another crossing a major highway, that I almost nailed, at 2:30 am. I wasn't dreaming, as that same wolf (or it's sibling)was sighted by a friend in the same location going to work at GM in Oshawa. He said "It was as tall as the hood on my truck!". Well, maybe not THAT tall, but it was very impressive! The other I saw was in travelling to Peterborough in mid afternoon, and it was one of the most beautiful animals I have EVER seen, bar none! I don't get the U.S. point of view, frankly. But then I haven't lived in the west, or owned a cattle ranch!

I've hunted bear in the spring (before spring hunting of bear was shut down)on the border of Algonquin Park, and always just after it got dark, as we were waiting to be picked up, the wolves in the Park would start howling... The only other sound in the wild that sends such a thrill up my spine, is the loon, I kid you not.

The wolves, in the area where I hunt them, are big and beautiful and I would not like to see them exterminated. To me, in this area, they provide one of the greatest hunting challenges because you rarely see them.

Yes, they kill some game animals, but NOT anything like bears, which are proliferating. And in some areas they (bears)are destroying moose populations because they kill the calves in spring and summer. I'm a dedicated bear hunter because we have too many, but, frankly, the wolf is much more of a challenge because we don't have the wide open areas of the west. We have to deal with a lot of forest and underbrush! YMMV.

Bob

www.bigbores.ca

Big rugs regardless of camera angle

I need to qualify a couple of things:

The coyote I'm referring to are the eastern coyote, which is quite large compared to the western variety...

And, the so-called "brush wolf" has great variance in color: usually, the coloration is mottled, but there are "red", brown, grey, black, tan, pink and blue... Well, no pink and blue ones yet... but usually they are greatly varied in coloration and mostly mottled. You know them when you see them. It's fairly obvious they're neither Timber wolf nor coyote. Also, they are much more aggressive and tend to run in packs. The Timber wolf is much more shy and reclusive.

Bob

www.bigbores.ca

Dear Sitka deer,

You are correct. You actually have had some of the very large Canadian wood bison in Alaska ever since November of 2003, and some have been born in the state, but they are held where wolves likely cannot get at them even if they wanted to.

But you do have the smaller plains buffalo living in places where wolves can kill them.

I have read that Alaskan wolves do not tackle the adult plains buffalo so it only stands to reason they would avoid wood buffalo which are on average 200 pounds heavier as well as being much taller than a plains buffalo.

Size matters to predators.

Wolves in the high arctic are smaller than their moose-eating woodland counterparts just as high arctic grizzlies are smaller than their salmon eating Kodiak Island counterparts.

So Bergman's law isn't really a law as it does not mork in many cases. Its important not to take people with PHds, like Bergman, too seriously. They tend to be bureaucrats with stolid minds rather than intellectuals.

They gave us global warming which is an interglacial, they gave us the Canadian red wolf which is a feral dog, and they gave us the eastern panther which has never even existed.

There are only two kinds of cougars and the Darien Gap in Panama seems to be the dividing line between the two species.

A bit of skepticism is always a good idea because nowadays junk science is more common than real science. Charles Darwin didn't have a PHd.

I don't know anything about the "eastern panther", but we have cougar here in Ontario, and have probably have had them "forever". But the MNR biologists denied having them until recently. I've not come across one here in Ont. but have seen their tracks. Several years ago, I told my CO friend about this and he laughed, thinking it was a joke. I have friends who live in my prime hunting area, and they have seen a pair in winter near their house.

ALSO, back in the '70's, when I was travelling through a part of New Brunswick late at night, where I at one time lived, I nearly ran into a black cougar. I stopped and looked carefully at it, using the headlights of my car. My oldest son, who married a lady from that same area, saw one in plain daylight. He thought it was a bear when he first saw it. As he approached rather close (travelling down a 3km hill)he realized it was a "panther" or cougar. I did some research, after my sighting, and discovered there was a "black phase" cougar that had moved from Florida into NY State, in the Appalachians. The article was quite old, but it's a mere step from there into Quebec and the Eastern Seaboard provinces. New Brunswick didn't acknowledge the presence of cougar either, at the time, but they do now.

I won't go there, but Darwinian "science" is some of the "junk science" mentioned, albeit unwittingly.

Bob

www.bigbores.ca

There were native cougars in southern Ontario a century ago. The name "Erie", for Lake Erie means panther in an Indian language. I think the last one in southern Ontario was shot near Orillia and like the wolf they were completely annihilated in SW Ontzario when farms replaced the hardwood forest.

The ones in NW Ontario are probably wild and from the Alberta or the Black Hills.

The ones in SW Ontario now are likely captive cats released from roadside zoos. One caught in Quebec had South American cougar DNA. A cougar bit a farmer in eastern Ontario a few years ago. It was in the Globe and Mail. I don't think cougars in SW Ontario come from the west because there are no deer for them to eat for miles along the north shore of Lake Superior. One might make it across in a year when showshoe hares are at the peak of their cycle but I doubt it because the snow from Saulte Ste Marie to Wawa and west is very very deep in the winter. I once cross country skied about 20 miles from the ACR railway to Lake Superior in mid winter and the forest was lifeless. Too much snow. Everybody ses black cougars but thzere has never been one. Its caused by a low sun and backlighting and by mistaking house cats for cougars which is more common than you think. i was shown some ontario cougar photos and they were house cats for sure. I have caught wild cougars and raised quite a few in captivity.

Jburner;

You seem to know something about some things, BUT you are quite wrong about black cougars. I was within 4 ft of the one I saw, I HAD A VERY GOOD LOOK AT IT! My son also! Now, if you want to believe SPECULATION that you've read in the papers, go right ahead! BUT don't try to con me with that garbage when I WAS THERE! And, yes, they WERE in Florida and migrated into the Appalachians, according to Encyclopedia Britannica. AND there must be a lot of "roadside zoos", because sightings of cougar in N.B. go back into the '60's, at least!

A friend in N.B. who was a professional guide, at the time of my sighting, in answer to my inquiry, said "Yes, the locals call them "devil cats". He further added that he had tracked them in the snow. That's central N.B. that has as much snow as any part of Canada - and I know that because I've lived there and was born there.

I know a wildlife biologist who taught at Flemming- now retired (taught my friend the CO). In a one-on-one with me, as I was bear hunting on his property 3 years ago, insisted I was wrong about cougar in Ont, "There are none, they couldn't survive our winters!" When I told him about cougars in N.B., that have finally (since the '80's)been acknowledged by the MNR there, and pointed out that that part of N.B. where I saw one, as well as others reporting them, has the same latitude as central Ont, with winters equally as bad (or worse)he dismissed it as unlikely (as you have)because science was against it.

That must have been some of the "junk science" you mentioned. "House cats" - please, gimme a break!!!

Bob

www.bigbores.ca

Cougars have been suspected in Yukon for a number of years. One was finally found dead, apparently starved in Watson Lake a few years ago. They no doubt walked up the Alaska Highway following the deer that move north the same way. Mostly Mule Deer, though my wife and I saw a Whitetail 100 miles west of Watson Lake a few years ago. Nothing like a dead animal to get rid of speculation.

I used to buy cougars and wolves and other things mostly in Wisconsin but reallyall over. There are plenty of roadside zoos all over North America including Ontario. There are supposed to be 10,000 tigers in the USA, mostly in roadside zoos, and there are only about 1,400 wild ones in India.

The only black cougars I have ever seen have been purposely dyed black to create black panthers for the movies. I do not believe there are any black ones in the wild but I have been wrong before. People commonly report seeing them but they are never shot anywhere within the cougar range.

I once caught a spotted cougar or "onca" in South America by treeing it with dogs and darting it with SCC. They are really just adult cougars with spots. In hot climates they do not grow and shed their hair with the change of the seasons so they keep their hair and spots well into young adult hood and that is really what the so-called spotted onca of tropical Mexico really is.

Cougars in the far north need either deer or snowshoe hares to survive the winter and the hares are cyclical so they are sometimes unavailable. The deer yard up where the snow is deep and if there are any cougars around they will be near the deer yards in winter.

At one time there was supposed to be a pair near Powasson which is near the Golden Valley deer yard. But there was a guy who had somepet cougars in the area and I suspect he released the ones he could not afford to feed. Its happens all the time. That is how Florida got so full of Asian pythons - pet owners released them.

The likelihood of a "roadside zoo" in such a remote near-wilderness area of New Brunswick is about on the same scale as a squirrel monkey swimming the Atlantic and settling in Newfoundland!

And Ontario...? Nah... think I'll stick with what I know, not the Wikipedia version.

BTW, you wouldn't, perchance, be related to Lee24, would ya?

Bob

www.bigbores.ca

Dear Bob,

I don't know who Lee 24 is. I don't think I have any relatives posting on the net.

As regards cougars. They walk very far looking for food and for mates. They have four legs.

A cougar from the Black Hills walked more than 500 miles into Manitoba. I don't think New Brunswick is 500 miles wide.

jburner
I would not be surprised if woods bison were being raised somewhere in AK... But I am fairly familiar with the plains variety and my wife shot one some years back from the Delta Junction herd.

I think wolves would have to be pretty hungry to think about taking on a bison herd, of any flavor.

There is another herd on Kodiak Island, domestic, and the bears do not mess with them much. Several islands around have "wild" (feral) cattle and they are mostly from wooly, short-legged stock that looks mostly Channel Islands in origin. But the Belted Galway is the true winner breed in the bear wars... They are big and aggressive and the bears mind their manners around them. The bison ranch, Bertram's, also has cattle and quite a few of the BGs.

I thought I remembered seeing a trail cam picture of a black cougar from the Mexican-AZ border recently, or am I confusing that with a jaguar?
art

Dear Sitka Deer,

There is definitely a herd of wood buffalo in Alaska but I think they are being held in quarantine because of some legal hitch.

The ADF&G has a Wood buffalo Restoration Advisory Group in place. SCI is supporting this.

They are the largest land mammal in the northern hemisphere as far as I know.

I remember seeing photos of a jaguar from the American south-west but it had been cornered by dogs.

I have not see the trail cam of a black cougar but maybe someone got a picture.

The thing that makes me think it unlikely is that so many thousands have been shot in the last 400 years by hunters using dogs that you would think one would turn up someplace and I don't one ever has.

Art,
The Wood Bison Herd is almost in spitting distance of your house. They're held at the game park or what ever they call it at the turn off to Girdwood. WE took some company through there and I was surprised to see them. A couple got out and we (CAP)did some aerial searching for them. I believe they rounded them up but not positive of that. Take a Sunday drive and take a look pretty awesome. --- Mel

A couple of years ago while turkey hunting I came across 5" cat tracks. It turns out I was about ten miles from the guy's farm who's cat just had him for lunch!! The Co I talked to about this was certian the guy let his big cats out for excerise! So it looks good on him flippen sob!!

However like N.B. there is plenty of food here in S.W Ontario to support cougers I not convinced all sitings are escaped excotics and boviease. A fella here raises walkers for bear hunting and he's had his dogs one them. I've have seen the plaster casts he's taken. One set has big paws followed by little paws. He is certian it's mom and kit. I also know a farmer I've worked for known most my life tell me he wachted a couger stalking turkeys in his back 40. He is a very knowledgable and well educated man, his testamony of what he saw I believe. Black bear in Oshuawa and young bull moose in Sarnia, animals are always on the move so why not cougers around here?

Dear Cloverleaf,

I think there could be a few cougars in south-western Ontario now but I do not think they come from wild stock.

They are most likely the offspring of capitve cats that per owners have released and made a living in the winter killing farms dog, farm cats, wild turkeys and the odd deer.

I have heard there are a few in the pinery north of Sarnia and apparently there are quite a few deer there but I don't know if its true.

The ones that show up in NW Ontario are probably wild stock from the west. Lots of deer in the forested valleys of the big prairie rivers leading to the Rockies where ther are cougars. That is all they need.

I think the country is too steril and the snow to deep along the north shore of Lake Superior for them to have come into southern Ontario from the west. No deer for a 1,000 miles, only enough snowshoe hares one year in ten, and snow so deep east of Lake Superior that if you step off your cross country skis you disappear. Tough going for a cougar.

if that wolf is as big as it shows, i don't believe it is as big as stated and have a little person pick it up as shown. also if it is just killed, where is the blood and why is it STIFF. rigger has set in and not a real pic.

I found more photos of it at a website that sells game bait. Its at http://grimsmonstermix.com/galleryhtm.

It was shot near Drayton valley, Alberta and one of the two guys holding it in the various pictures is Jeff Grimolfson the outfitter whose company got it on a bait.

They are called "White Claw Outfitters."

A story was written about it in a fall issue (not sure the year) of "Big Buck Magazine".

The weights on the net vary from 197 pounds to 230 pounds. Don't know which is true or if either is true.

It apparently has not been photo shopped. A number of people who know the outfitter and the wolf have chimed into says its for real.

I don't discount the size because for years it has been known that the wolves within the original range of the wood bison are very large and are the only wolves that kill adult wood bison, the largest land mamals in the northern hemisphere.

Apparently it has or will be shown on a TV show called "Hunting Chronicles TV."

Look at the length of the hind legs and imagine how tall that thing must have stood. That would be a worrisome thing for a trapper to find following him home on a cold winters night.

The wolf is apparently for real and weighed 197 pounds. The refernce to 230 pounds is what it would have weighed if it had a stomach full of moose. It had an empty stomach. The skull scored 18+ inches or about what a 200 pound leopard of jaguar would score.

There are more details on the huntingbc forum and comments by a guy who saw the wolf and who also saw it weighed. There is also a guy on the site who mentions 200 pound wolves from the Yukon.

This all fits in with information that I have accumulated over the years that tends to show the largest wolves on earth live within the range of the wood buffalo. They are in the Mackenzie Valley NWT, northern Alberta, northern Saskatchewan and the southern Yukon.

They are the only wolves that seem to kill adult bison and size probably has something to do with it.

Photo shop doe's wonder's.

I can understand your skepticism swamp dogger because wolves in Ontario are very small from having crossed with dogs and coyotes.

The coyotes cross with dogs in southern Ontario and the wolves cross with dogs from Indian reserves in the north. In the old days the indians dug up wolf pups from their dens and crossed them with their dogs too.

Difficult to find a pure wolf in Ontario any where near where people live.

Here is the best thread on the wolf that I have been able to find. Its http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=37304

The thread includes people who know the outfitter and exact measurements such as a skull size of 18 5/8 inches.

Here is an Alberta forum reference to the wolf at http://www.outdoorsmenforum.ca/showthread.php?t=34797&highlights=wolf.

One of the posters here also makes reference to another wolf killed 10 years ago near Buffalo Jump in Alberta and weighed in at 205 pounds.

I know I have seen references to 200 pound wolves from the southen Yukon but in pre-internet days and I cannot remeber where.

I sent an e-mail to the Yukon Fish and Game people asking them about this but they did not reply.

Skull size is all that matters.Wolves eat too much at one sitting for weight to be used as a comparison. I believe the BC book is listing wolves these days.

Dear Tago Zulu,

What you say is true as far as records books go but I still find the weights interesting. There were for years rumours of very large black bears in Ontario but the bigs ones were always cut up or skinned in the bush because they were too heavy to move and weigh.

Then a transport truck killed a big one crossing a highway near Kapuskasing and because it was on a road MNR got it to a weigh scale and accurately weighed it at 780 pounds. Another killed in Manitoba was accurate weighed at more than 850 pounds.

That black bear is larger than any grizzly bear killed in the continental United States since they began weighhing them. One or two even heavier black bears have been killed in recent years in the eastern USA. pennsylvania sems to have most of the big ones.

Llyn Rogers talks about a female black bear weighing more than 500 pounds but its almost certainly one raised in a roadside zoo or artificialy fed.