Any first hand experience, or reputable reports?

Good bad ugly? Bullet used, shot placement, range, outcome appreciated, thanks all.

I'm sure you could do it,but it wouldn't be my first choice!Don't know anybody who's done it in BC but I bet it has been done in Scandanavia,they shoot a whack of moose with the 6.5x55,and theres lots of grizzlies there, except they call them European Brown Bears.Monashee

Monashee;
Good evening to you sir, I hope this finds you well.

The question of grizzlies vs. 6.5x55 twigged a memory for me tonight, but I can't put my finger on exactly when this was.

A few years back in the Kootenays, maybe Canal Flats kinda neighborhood, a young hunter dropped a charging grizzly with a .25-06. It made the news and he and his father were interviewed on CBC radio as I recall.

A fellow down in Oliver killed a very nice Kootenay grizzly with a .308 a couple decades back too and he was intentionally hunting for them with that Model 88.

Another local fellow dropped a charging grizzly with his .270 - just above the dump here in Okanagan Falls - maybe 15 years back? We spend a lot of in that very area chasing deer every fall, but have yet to see our first grizzly there.

Now that I'm thinking of bear stories, we hunted Telegraph Creek in '87 and a fellow we ran into up there had just killed a grizzly that took a run at him - with his .30-30.

I'd hate to have to skin all the BC grizzly bears that died in front of a .303, likely shooting those old Dominion bullets with the rear crimp to keep the core from slipping - whatever they were called?

Anyway, I'm not sure what my first choice would be from our safe if I was going on a bear chase on purpose, but quite likely it would be a .308 Norma loaded with either 168gr TSX or 200gr. Partitions.

That said, I spent the whole season here save one evening, packing a .270 with 130gr. GMX bullets and I doubt any bear would feel the difference between it and our eldest daughter's 6.5x55 loaded with 130gr. TSX.

We don't worry too much about bears down here, mostly we prefer to let them worry about us.

Have a good week Monashee.

Regards,
Dwayne

In the early part of the last century,guys like Sheldon killed slews of grizzly,moose,sheep an assorted game in the Northern Rockies of Canada with the 6.5x55 or similar stuff. The Jacquot brothers who ran a Yukon outfit(IIRC)killed the same stuff with a 250 Savage.

Anectdotal but I know two guys from back here who have killed mountain grizzlies (one shot) with the 270-130 Nosler Partition,so no reason the 6.5 with good bullets would not do it.

I'll bet a buck lots of polar bears have been killed on a circumpolar basis with the 6.5x55 as well.


So there is no doubt it can be done.....just a question of are there better tools?

Based on the rate of success which has been found with the 55 FMJ and the 223 in the Mini-14, I would think a mil-spec type of ball ammo would work well enough in the 6.5. For serious pursuits with the 6.5 however, I'd probably opt for something along the lines of a 140 XFB, 130 TSX, or 160 Woodleigh. Then again, one might consider what has worked for northern people and their Hornets on the big bears: head shots. A big bear would not be a big deal with a 6.5 with proper back-up assuming one was not hesitant to give the back-up proper credit (and leeway).

Absolutely no doubt that the 6.5x55 would work,many grizzlies have been killed with small calibres,and as Dwayne says without doubt many have been taken in BC with the .303 British and ball ammo over the years.Shot placement would be critical of course,and with adequate backup,in an open enviornment there should be no problem.An up close,unexpected meeting with a big bear would leave me wanting more horsepower,I pack an 8mmRemMag,with 220gr A Frames! Monashee

BC30

Those old Dominion bullets were the KlingKore Expanding (KKSP).I still have some in 7mm. Way ahead of their time and along with the plastic tipped Sabre Tips, they had a great mechanical lock behind the cannelure made by pressing fingers of jacket material into the core. Much more positive than the Hornady interlock ring and 40 year ahead of it. A shame we never kept the company going.

As for the 6.5 on grizz, I have a 6.5 Rem Mag and with 140 partitions it has a very reliable bullet action. The regular 160 grainers that people talk about can core fail which reduces their mythical penetrating prowess. Some old 160 grain KKSP's would be just the ticket however, if any more exist on the planet.

No question Grizzlies can be killed with 6.5 and 270s but I have found the larger calibers do it better.... Bears by Ben East...a story is described by Wyoming guide Bert Bell and a client using the 264 Win Mag which ended up in a real rodeo......

Good morning;

I can't address this question directly as I've never shot a grizzly with anything... In fact, I've never seen a real live one as we don't have them in Ontario, Quebec or The Maritime Provinces.

But a family friend was travelling in Western Canada with my wife to visit our youngest son in Saskatchewan and her daughter in Alberta several years ago. They spent some time in the Jasper area and, while travelling, saw and videoed numerous black bears, and one beautiful silvertip grizzly. The grizz appeared to be female and was digging out roots from the side of a hill, then sitting in the cavity she dug while eating her lunch. This went on for nearly 1/2 hour. She then ambled off, taking her good-ole-time. I still have that vid.

The point? She appeared to be about 300 - 350 lbs, and our friend got too close (in my wife's view)but the bear was apparently easygoing about the whole deal. But, if the bear had decided our friend was getting too close, she could have been on her in a flash! (I've seen first hand how quick a black bear can be when it decides to move!)In such a scenario, for a hunter, I'd want much more than a 6.5X55!

I have perhaps more experience with blacks than the average hunter because I hunt them every year. This past season (September - October)we had a large black bear attending our baits from all signs. We heard him on one occasion. But a day after our hunt was over I received a phone call from the man who set up this hunt for us on private property. He told me the large black bear that had been seen in the area by a number of folk (and was hitting two of our baits) had just driven one of the horses on the property into the bog and had killed it.

I can't obviously speak for the West, or other hunters/guides, but I for one will never go after such a bear (mentioned in our hunt)with anything less than a 300 magnum! In my case, because I was guiding a young hunter, I carried a Marlin .45-70 with 405s at 2100 fps.

I have some experience with 6.5s also, and while I believe they will work adequately in open areas, I'd NEVER carry one for bear in the close quarters we have to contend with here in central Ontario. I've also witnessed a close friend use his .270 on a couple of bear, a 200 pounder and a 400. The 400 lb died within 30 yards of where it was shot. BUT, because it bawled 11 times (recorded on video)I was able to locate it on the edge of dark while the shooter went off to find his flashlight. The bear plunged headlong into the thickest tangle possible, and had it been any darker it would not have been found until morning as there wasn't ONE DROP of BLOOD on the ground ANYWHERE! The bullet was a 150 Nosler Partition that made a pass-through but the wound exit closed shut as soon as the bullet exited! So much for pass-throughs with a small caliber on a bear that has 4" of fat plus thick hide and long matted hair!!

On bear, I want a BIG HOLE going in, and if it never exits, it will STILL leave a massive blood trail! THAT's from experience!

Good luck on your hunt, but go get yourself at least a .30-cal.

We've heard of the plentiful successes using 6.5's, but I wonder about the failures.

Bob

www.bigbores.ca

Due to the high S.D. of the 160 gr bullets,I would not hesitate to use the 6.5x55 on grizzly. Especially if you know the gun and are very familiar with it. It would (with 160's)be a better choice than 270,280,308 etc. shooting bullets with a S.D. a lot lower, and many grizzly's are shot with those rounds each year. 30/06 shooting 200's and 220's would,to me anyways,be the next stop along the cartridge line up that would do as good or better than the 6.5 x 55 and of course after that the big magnum 338 and 375.
I would think the 6.5/160gr combo would work better than a 300 shooting 165/180 gr. I believe in a bullets S.D. and think it is an important ingredient in a cartridges make up.
Know your gun and its limit and shoot within it and you will be fine.If you feel you need more gun go to a 30/06 with 200gr+ bullets or to a 338Win mag/250gr.

My friend shot a nice grizzly with a 6.5x55 (M/38) from about 50 yards. The bear stood up on its hind legs to survey the situation - the brush was about waist high - and the shot went straight into the chest. The bear turned to run away while dropping and made it less than 50 yards before giving up the ghost. The ammunition was cheap Privi Partisan soft point.

My Mom's uncle left for the lumber yards in Canada when he was a young man, there were documents of him killing 100+ moose and over 50 grizzly bear with nothing more than a 30-30. When he passed away my father went to get the rifle only to find that someone had broken into his cabin and stole the rifle.

Kev

Where do you guys aim - prefer to hit them, whether on a calm animal, or even one were coming at you?

Thanks for the posts.

A couple of questions come to mind: 1)What is a "nice grizzly", and 2)What if that grizzly had been big and tough enough to drop down and come for the hunter, 50 yards away, since the bear was in waist-high brush that would have posed a possible serious threat to the hunter, no?

About killing 100+ moose and 50 grizzly with a .30-30... Those were days and times in which better armament was in short supply, and hunters were not sportsmen or hobbyists... you're not suggesting that with much better cartridges available today that hobbyists should try that, are you? I hope not. If your point is, if that's all you have and are caught in a wilderness area with a .30-30, then you had better know how to use it, that's for sure!

I know a fellow (NOT "know of...)who went on a western trip from Ontario with his family. They camped somewhere in the Rockies... and it was hunting season. I know nothing about the details of that, but a grizzly shows up in camp, getting too close. He had his .303 Brit along with a 10 shot clip loaded. He UNloaded all 10 shots into the grizz and it was still making hast in his direction. It finally dropped dead a few feet away, and he was shooting in an open area.

I also KNOW a fellow who unloaded his Winchester 94 in .30-30 into a bull moose in Northern Ontario. He finally brought it to bag... but, according to him, he wouldn't try that again with a .30-30! Too much misery for the moose! Yeah, I know elephant have been killed with the 6.5X55 and Inuit have slaughtered dozens? hundreds? of white bear with the .222 and .223 Rems! Are we suggesting that as a good policy for everyone?

I know Phil Shoemaker has killed many brown bear with his .30-06 using premium, heavy bullets, but few (especially Canadians)have the military background of Shoemaker as a sniper in Vietnam!

In my firm opinion, I'll go with the guide-outfitter who says "Take the heaviest caliber you can shoot well. If it's not heavy enough, get one that is and LEARN to shoot it VERY WELL!"

Bob

www.bigbores.ca

good advise.

No experience.

BUT - the 6.5 X 55 - with the right bullets is a cartridge that has amassed quite a reputation on moose.

And compared to a moose - a grizzly is easy to kill. Even a caribou carcass that weighs the same as a grizzly has way tougher bones. Bears aren't built all that sturdily.

I'd feel well armed with a good 6.5 - anywhere in B.C. - for defense against anything. Not that it would be my first choice for hunting a grizzly, as I shoot my 375H&H very accurately and with ease.

Typical BC Grizzly...Unit 626..

Nice bear!...............someone pass the 375H&H please?!

The problem I see way to often is the readers versus the locals that are around Bears or any game all the time and don't get there heart beat up to 160 without getting on a treadmill/bike,just seeing them..Kinda normal stuff to the natives and that is the biggest reason the smaller calibers work for them..Cool/calm and collected makes for a spot on shot.

The 6.5 sure wouldn't be my first choice for something that bites back!

Jayco

Jayco no doubt that is true....the further from home, the bigger the rifle.....

Thanks. Again, where is the best shot placement?

While it isn't all that difficult to punch holes through a common, average size grizzly, they are not the same in killing that moose are by any stretch. Where moose and caribou almost never attempt anything resembling a final threat to their antagonist, the same is certainly not the case with bears. And while they often attempt to flee, they are also much inclined to cling to the very last shred of life they can muster, quite unlike NA ungulates.

I would further caution that killing an upper level predator is not the same is killing prey animals or smaller predators. While one may be comfortable with having mastered "buck fever" when it comes to the "lesser" species, one of the bigger bears can incite a good case of beginner's fever all over again. They certainly don't lend themselves to one's best shooting necessarily. And don't think it can't happen when you decide to become the hunter even if they don't bring out the jitters when you've watched them up close.

65: On the pic of the bear that OU76 posted?

IMO it's just on the edge of not enough broadside...I would want him turned a hair more....that said, I think a good bullet in a medium 338 or 375 would traverse the chest and make the offside shoulder with enough muscle to break stuff a long ways from the entrance, which at that angle is going to start pretty far back IMO.....but I personally would like him turned a bit more....if you know where it is you might break the spine near the shoulders.

With that heavy brush in the background it might be good to hold him where he is if you can.Or you might get more excitement than you want.....OU tells me that bear is close to a 10-footer.....

I have only shot two grizzlies(brown bear),and they were more broadside than that.....

65 are you going grizzlie hunting with the 6.5?

Frankly I'd much rather have a 30/06 than the 6.5 but I'm no expert....

ou76;
Thanks for the nice bear photo from the Skeena country.

A long time ago, '87 I guess it was, we hunted mountain goats in 6-22 and 6-21. In 6-22 we were the first ones to head up what they called the "Iron Road" which went west of Telegraph Creek in a lot of years - so the locals said anyway.

We also spent a grand day on the east side of Mess Creek Canyon which was really something to see.

While I'm no grizzly expert by any stretch, from the locals that have seen them in our neck of the woods, our bears would be considerably smaller than the one in your photo.

I suspect that the further from salmon streams they get the tougher it is for them to attain and I suppose maintain that size.

Thanks again and all the best to you and yours this Christmas season.

Regards,
Dwayne

I just thought I'd help ya out there Brian!

I dunno, as I've never killed a grizz nor a caribou, but, on video I watched a female grizzly take down a large bull caribou and kill it with her two young'uns watchin'.

Ya must be talkin' about those weak, old BC kind, right?

Bob

www.bigbores.ca

Great photo - any more to the story?

I carried a 300WinMag on my first grizzly hunt and in retrospect I wouldn't carry anything LESS in the future. So to me, the 6.5x55 would not be a first choice. Here's my opinion on this: If you spend the kind of money it takes to buy a grizz hunt, then one needs to take the time to learn how to properly handle a cartridge with enough energy to safely stop what you're hunting.

I am no Grizzly expert and can only speak and advise from my actual field experiences...the Grizzly was photographed in 2007 near Willow Lake BC as we were on a Moose hunt...the outfitter had no non resident tags so this fella walked into the BC bush...quite the bear...I was using a 30-06 with 200 BBC for Moose and had a tag been available perhaps I could tell what this combo would have done...I estimate him to be pushing 10 feet..as far as my field experience for Grizzly..I have shot 11 ...(9 with 375 and 1 each with 300 Weatherby and 340 Weatherby)... along with 3 Kodiak Bears, 2 Polar Bears and 3 Black Bears...I have decided that for Grizzly, Kodiak and Polar the ideal caliber is a 375..taking 14 bears with 18 shots.... all 3 of my Black Bears have been shot with 30-06 using 200 BBC...I have hunted Grizzly in Alaska, Yukon and in various parts of BC...all my Brown bears have been Kodiak Island...the closest Grizzly I ever shot was a 600 pound charging 20 year old sow at 20 feet in 2000 in Knights Inlet on a salmon stream..I was glad to have had my 375 loaded with 275 BBCs...

I do not think a 6.5 is an adaquate Grizzly caliber...nor do I think a 270 or 7 mag is..regardless of SD, paper ballistics and etc...I can only speak of my actual field experiences...in my opinion the calibers for Grizzly begin with 30-06 loaded with 200-220 Nosler Partitions at full throttle...ie...2700 fps + or the 300 Weatherby loaded with the same bullets...for the 338/340 I would recommend the 250 Nosler Partitions...that is my recommendations regarding Grizzly hunting based on my actual field experiences...it is up to the reader to agree or disagree...and that is one's choice..

I feel completely comfortable w/a 338/06, owned and used one in the past and shot it very well, no flinching. Also likely - a 9.3x62 would be an option. The 338 Win Mags - never cared to shoot them, but a few shots on a hunt probably would not be an issue. I would have to limit my sessions at the range to less rounds.

As to a .416, I did have a buddy who offered and encouraged me to give it a try. A custom, on a former 700 Classic 300 H&H IIRC. Not sure if the stock had a recoil pad, and it was pre-brake that was slated for it. Recall firing one shot, the floor plate dropped out as common due to recoil. Muzzle straight up, me straight back, and any follow up shot would have been VERY slow for many reasons. I have NO desire to ever fire another 416 but no doubt, if one needed a DGR for a Safari, it would be on top for performance. Shootability is another issue. The bullet IIRC I fired was a Hornady, maybe around 400 gr. It honestly popped my shoulder pretty bad, of course the 'blast factor' is no fun either burning that much powder, w/plugs/muffs.

I seem to recall back in college a wealthy business man who owned ALL kinds of rifles let me shoot his 375, put 3 in a clover leaf and although it came back hard, it seemed more a shove or push than a snap, perhaps recoil speed was less than a 338. Not sure on gun weight, likely hefty, it was sitting on the bags at the range when I sat down to fire it.

I would not use a 6.5 for just any shot, and would hold fire if I did not have a good presentation, and a margin of error - i.e. distance from me to him. It's a consideration, but not dead set on what I would poke one with but if the opportunity was ideal, I may choose to use a 6.5 w/a good bullet. It may be on the light side of the spectrum, necessitating exact shot placement for success, yet I won't take a rifle I won't shoot well.

Some like to hunt w/rifles, some handguns, some bows, I guess I have a hankering to use a 6.5 if I try for a Grizzly. We shall see, but no doubt, I DO have a concern for MY hide and would not be completely wreckless in my efforts. Some may say a 6.5 on a Grizz is 'an oxymoron' lol - it no doubt could present challenges and risks.

I appreciate the info/advice by all. Thanks.

OU, read your post after my last - but I do not disagree a rifle smaller than say a 338 bore is less than ideal on the big bears. Personally I see MY preference when wanting more stopping power than a 6.5 or 7mm, to go to at least a 338, 358 and 9.3/375 not unreasonable.

Thanks for sharing your experience, it's very valid.

I have no doubt the 6.5X55 will take Grizzly, after all, the 30-30 held the record for a few years.
But given the choice, it would never leave the rack. Nothing smaller than a 338WM or hand loaded 45-70 for me.

Never shot a grizzly with a 6.5 x 55 but I did kill my first grizzly with a .270 and 150 gr SBT. This was in Yukon some time ago and was a single shot kill.

It was just under 7', if memory serves me right. Yes, it would have been a problem, but it wasn't because the bear was basically dead on its feet due to being hit in a good spot with the first shot.

Most mountain grizzly aren't really that big, and even when you get into the coastal regions of BC an 8.5' bear is a really big bear.

And as everybody knows, a .270 will do almost anything a 6.5X55 will, right?

65BR
You obviously have high regards for the 6.5X55 to be asking the question. I just completed building one on a Ruger #3 and have never seen a Griz. Sure have seen a train load of Black bear and wouldn't hesitate to shoot one with it. I was raised, and have hunted, in the Adirondacks where there are thousands of them. I also know that the Black bear isn't particularly known to have eaten a whole lot of folks.

A vast amount of game and numerous species have been successfully taken with the 6.5X55 however if I were going on a Griz. hunt it would be my choice to take along a whole lot more gun.

You were asking where to aim. That indicates to us that you may not have much experience hunting the Griz. That's a legitimate, reasonable, and logical question. An other question might be presented to experienced Griz hunters as to what caliber they would recommend for a hunt. It would be my estimation that very few would recommend the grand old or newly reformed 6.5X55 as a first choice for themselves.

Those are my thoughts and yours may be different.

Best to you and have a blessed Christmas.

Jim

I have never hunted grizz so take it for whats its worth, but i do have a good amount of experience with the 6.5X55 on deer. Its a great cartridge, but i had a small (150lb) buck stop a 140gr speer hot core, it didnt exit, first time for the swede, as all other bullet weights (120gr,129gr,130gr,140gr) have exited. For truly big game, moose,elk, bears i would use a 140gr TBBC or partiton.

I would use a 35 Whelen for bears, minimum 250grs and probably a 270gr NOrth Fork or 275gr Hawk. I would also imagine a broadside behind the shoulder shot would be about perfect.

as a side note, black bear hunting season has started here in N.J. a 661 lb bear was shot the first day, and thats small compared to the truly big dumpster divers.....

I did a lot of clean up work in the 80's and 90's retrieving wounded black bear for outfitter clients who had pooched the shot. This typically turns the blackies disposition to be short tempered. Go figure.

I used a 65x55 model 38 Husqvarna because it was absolutely reliable, and fast in the thick stuff. I used those 160 grain Doninion KKSP bullets which were hreat penetrators. I used them right up to the day I was attacked and I put a round into thr backbone behind the head on a direct frontal charge.

The bear was close enough that the shot was downward into the spine. The shot was perfect, the bear immidiately collapsed, but his forward momentum drove his head into my leg knocking me back and spraining my ancle. The pucker factor was wholly operative that day!

I have hunted blackies since that day with a 338winmag. I realise it is not necessary to kill a blackie, but like the added insurance it offers. This year 17 years after that excitement, I shot my bear with a 30-06.

I have no doubt a 65x55 will kill a grizzly, but I would not stake my life on it. No grizzly experience on my part, so take this for what it is worth.

By the way when I have the opportunity to do so I shoot through the shoulders to take out their front wheel drive. When they are close I go for a CNS hit. I eat my game and although there is five pounds of meat in the cheek, I consider it a fair trade for instant kill.

Randy

Some fine sense and advice in that phrase.

If guys can kill them with bows, then why not a 6.5?

As long as you're not looking for a charge-stopper.

There is alot to be said for shooting a gun you know and are comfortable with in a stressful situation.

A small percentage of the big bears which are hunted with arrows ever get killed compared to those hunted with rifles. Things have to be right for whatever weapon is used. Some obviously allow more leeway than others. Some quarry are neither understanding nor forgiving when it comes to second chances.




One never knows how a bear will react to the first shot, and even "dead" bears can exact one final act of revenge.

archery hunters are backed with guys carrying 375s...

Yes they are, but the ones I'm familiar with, and probably many or most of the ones I'm not, want to do more than simply arrow the bear and have the job finished with a rifle. Things have to be right- and close- to kill a bear with an arrow. A smaller rifle, like a bow, is simply going to limit one's opportunities, but also require a person to hunt (stalk) better and closer.

Great stuff all, yes, asked on shot placement as I have not killed a bear, not too concerned w/a Blackie, but definitely want to proceed w/caution on the Brown/Grizzly.

If on a hunt, MOST if not all of the time I will not be alone and will have someone to back me up if need be. I will likely take a 2nd rifle, and depending on circumstances decide if/when to use a 6.5 if I desire, but no doubt, I would want more gun if alone and/or needing to stop a charge. It certainly won't be my choice if I were in THICK stuff at PBR.

Medicman, sounds almost as you either had irons, or pointed that rifle.....close call no doubt. Nice you had a reliable mauser and a proper bullet to go deep, and it went where needed.

Thanks all.

I'll only comment that the two most experienced bear guides I know (one on big island black bears in British Columbia and one on brown bears in SE Alaska, both with decades of hunting) both advise against trying to "break down" a broadside bear with shoulder shots.

This is because they've seen too many hunters break only one shoulder without hitting vitals. This is because the hunter gets so fixated on breaking down the bear that they miss the center of the heart-lung area. Both guides advise shooting for the middle of the lungs, as no bear lives long with a big hole in both lungs. This has been my personal experience as well, with both black and grizzlies.

If a bear is charging there is no way to take out both shoulders with one shot.

Good points - thanks sir. No doubt, CNS/Heart may be the best on a frontal shot.

Yes sights were original battle sights, quick and reliable. I shot the rifle lots and it pointed naturally for me in its full military condition. I had the bayonet, but it was not a part of the hunting setup.

A buddy of mine here in B.C. used to live in the Northwest Territories. He's quite a good shot and is a regular "F" class and Silhouette competitor. He was a lot younger when he lived up north and only had one gun, chambered in 250 Savage. There's a nice blonde griz hide hanging on the wall of his basement that he brought down with two shots, broadside in the lungs, as it was climbing a rocky slope about 100 yards away from him. Looking at the hide on the wall I asked him if he was a bit concerned when he shot it, considering the little pea-shooter that he was carrying at the time. He said, "Nope, I knew I could put the bullet in the right place. That grizzly didn't last long once I hit him." Needless, now that he has the wherewithal he uses something stouter.

Re: archery, another fellow in our Rod and Gun Club stalked a griz to 20 yards and arrowed him. No back-up of any kind. I figure that's more stupid/lucky than brave.

There is a book that came out a couple years ago titled The Last Frontiersman and is about a friend of our named Heimo Korth. Heimo lives very remote just south of the Brooks Range in ANWAR and the rifle he uses on everything from caribou and moose to grizzlies is a 22-250. He says he has killed half a dozen grizzlies with it. His secret ? Simply to put the little bullet in the correct place.

Good stories. Gotta shootem good, helps to be lucky...better be lucky then good they say, so should I have the chance and use a 6.5, I hope I have both on my side

Funny, a cousin of mine from up North was visiting my other in AK, and was asked if he wanted to borrow his bow to stick a Blackie.....he killed alot of deer w/bow in MI, but turned down the chance to arrow a Black Bear. Somewhat surprised...but somewhat not.

Fred Bear had something I don't...lack of fear or something may be one...he was good, and usually lucky. I would not count myself so adept w/a bow.

I think the point has been made, maybe a couple of times already,that it's one thing to spend a lifetime among them (grizzly)... studying them, observing them... not taking foolish risks, taking your time in placing your shot correctly, perhaps on an unaware bear... BUT, it's another thing entirely to be a hobbyist IMO.

About the black bear I mentioned earlier... I saw the horse it killed... before it was killed... a black stallion. There was NO WAY that bear could have outrun, in a pasture, that stallion that weighed 800 to 1000 lbs! But the bear cornered it and maneuvered it to flee into a large wilderness area where it was killed, by the bear,in a bog.

Next year, God willing, I'll be going after said bear, as that is the request of the people concerned, but there's NO WAY that I'd go for that bear in that terrain with a 22-250!!! In fact, my choice will likely be my Marlin in .45-70 loaded (4+1=5 rounds) with tough 400's at 2000+ fps! THAT bear is cunning and smart, and although not a grizzly, it's dangerous!

The point I'm making is this (If you'll indulge me for another brief moment):CONDITIONS should play a major role in the choices we make in firearms for DG. And no two circumstances are exactly the same. Therefore, to advise a client, or hobbyist, to choose such and such because it has "always worked for grandpa", is, in a word, ludicrous. If someone is to err, let it be with "too much gun" for conditions that may quickly turn sour, rather than that which is "perfect" when everything is. (Is it ever?)

Another important factor, pointed out already... would this be a "do it yourself" or a guided hunt with a guide/outfitter that, hopefully, would know how to use his .30-06 or .375 or whatever? I'd be VERY surprised/dismayed, as a client, should HE be toting a 6.5!!!

Bob

www.bigbores.ca

Here ya' go....

Just give it back when you are finished with the hunt.

Whenever I've gone grizz hunting I had taken something bigger, usually in .375, but I know of lots of guys that have killed grizzlies with .308's so I don't see why the 6.5x55 woudl bounce of..

Dang, what an offer, do I REALLY have to give it back! LOL. Thanks!!!

Seriously, my cousin in AK would be along w/me, so not solo, though NEVER know if you get separated, or what you might encounter say when not AFTER bear per se that day, but Moose, though Bear are in the area. They do come often at the sound of a shot/free meal.

I believe in balance, I want enough killing effectiveness, w/shootability (aka tolerable recoil to allow repeat fire if need be), yet not so much recoil as I do recall taking ONE shot w/a 416 - and probably my last. About rattled my teeth loose!

No doubt these are animals to be respected, and preparedness is best done prior to meeting the opportunity.

Thanks for the posts, and again, Oldfender, that is a very nice rifle, and up to the task of ANY serious business. Almost bought one in 338 and 375 long ago JUST BECAUSE - as I do trust an M70 personally over a few other models. It's a confidence thing. I never did get an M70 back then, as I did not anticipate going on a serious hunt.

Again, very generous, thank you sir.

More than a couple of years back a friend of mine went to Alaska on a Brown Bear hunt and took a Stainless Classic 375 just like in the photo page 5. He ran about 4 boxes of factory Federals thru it getting used to it and decided to use WW Supreme loads featuring the Failsafe bullet for the hunt. This was pretty spendy ammo back then so he did his practice with the Feds and rezeroed the rifle before leaving with the Failsafe ammo. He did not however load the Failsafe ammo in the mag and check it for function. When the time came for his 90 yd shot he hit it thru the far shoulder knocking it down and then getting up and heading for the alders. This went down as he got a fail to feed on the next Failsafe,bent the cartridge up bad enuf they had to pry it out later. The guide didn't wait to figure out anything and anchored the bear very quickly.Point is he should of known better but just didn't think about it. Taking a marginal outfit up frt and knowing it seems strange to me. But its your butt and maybe it will belong to the bear. good luck I think you will need it. Magnum Man

LOL, good point Magnum Man thanks.

Trust me, I have not hunted bear, but should I, it won't be foolish. I may not shoot the biggest magnum's, but I do know HOW to shoot and I know what bullets to shoot in a given round per application, and I Do know there are limmits - to rounds, and shooters.

Did the friend ever find WHY that M70 had a F-t-F w/failsafes?

No plans to go alone, as although I plan if hunting one to get it all done by my shooter, should things not go as planned, there will be a second gun and gunner, backing me up.

In a nutshell, you may think I am a fool, and I agree I take a path less traveled at times not perhaps always doing things status quo, but I don't intend on doing anything foolish.

Hunting w/a light caliber for large game in and of itself I do not believe has to be 'foolish' but no doubt, if done w/o thought, and solo, it can and has gotten people in trouble.

As to the above shooter, he did something I dont' do. I actually sight in and shoot, and check functioning with the ammo that rifle will be used that season. Its surprising he had a bobble w/facotry ammo and rifle, but things happen. That was too bad, but glad it all ended well.

Your post is valid and not w/o merit, so know I certainly appreciate your post sir.

At this time, my plans will be to bring two rifles, a 6.5 of sorts, to use on deer/caribou, sheep, and moose, depending on opportunities, but on bear it will all depend. My second rifle will MORE than likely be a 9.3x62 stuffed w/286 Partitions OR possibly a Barnes. That's likely my first choice for a midbore right now. The other choices I have will be 338/06, 338 Win Mag, and possibly a 375 H&H but I KNOW myself, and feel I will shoot the 9.3 and 338/06 a good bit better and leaning towards them.

SHOOTABILITY, HIT-ABILITY, time to complete repeat fire, and capacity all factor in to my choices - knowing MY recoil tolerance. I'd rather shoot well, than only get off one half azzed shot w/something I don't shoot worth a darn. I no doubt could get one good shot off w/a say 375, but how quick for a 2nd and 3rd I am not so confident. Getting a rifle that fits well, with hunting clothes, i.e. LOP is also key I feel in optimizing gun handling and fast accurate repeat fire.

Would you guys feel comfortable w/a simple FXII 4x Leupold for Bear?

Yes.

Why would a Bear need a scope???????



Now seriously, I would not. I'd want my S&B because of it's superior low light ability and that may bee the very time that I need it most

Hmmm, last FXII I had was a very bright scope, although I might was to put a bold #4, or even maybe better yet #1 reticle in it, to stand out on that dark hair, but....how much brighter can the S&B ...be?

Yours a Flashdot?

No flashdot. A FXll can't hold with a S&B and that is one of the reasons I no longer own any leupys

BobinNH, knows the difference between a S&B and a Leupy, just ask him and he'll come clean

Well shidt.....the S&B is indeed a better low light scope.. As it should be!I luv mine!

But I have killed two brownies with 1.5-5x's set on 4X....ditto black bears....cause that's what I had,and was not on those hunts at all handicapped,other than by my own ineptitude, that is......

Personally I would not want any flash tubes in my scope,but that is just me...

If I were gonna buy a scope for my 375H&H...today....just for brown bear,etc, it would be a 1 3/4-6 Schmidt.

But, if I were leaving tomorrow,I would grab my 375 with the 4X Leupold and go smack a bear!

I've used a 4x32 Zeiss for over 20 years...works fine...but then I shoot big NA bears with a 375 too...

65BR hard as it might be to believe it, after he got home he found that the Failsafe loads did not feed from the magazine on his rifle worth a damn. Not sure why I did not get the chance to look at the rifle or ammo and try myself. Couple years later his brother took the same gun with different loads and shot a 9' with no problems. I have the Vari X 3 1 1/2 x 5 on my Whitworth 375 and think it is a good as it gets for me. Magnum Man

Interesting thread. I took the time to read most of it.

There is no question that the 6.5X55 will kill very large bears, but for that matter it is on record that a number of folks have killed 10+ foot bear with a 22LR.

I've killed two interior grizzly and two AK brown bear and several dozen black bear.

A lot of things simply happen to go wrong when hunting big bears and your rifle of choice needs to be able to allow for the margin of oooops/oh shhhiit. For interior grizzly, I like at least an 06 loaded right, but prefer a 338 Win. Mag.

For the bigger coastal grizzlies, I like at least a 338 Win. Mag. with a 250gr. NP or a 225gr. TSX at full speed and any rifle more powerful than this is welcome.

IF everything goes right, using the 6.5 will seem like a good choice, but if you are going to pay for an expensive hunt and if you want to be prudent, use a 338 Win. Mag. with good 225gr. to 250gr. bullets.

M/M - he didn't 'short shuck it' did he?

That S&B - Looked thru a 1pointsomething by 6 by 42 at SHOT back two years ago, VERY impressive optical instrument to be sure. No chance to do any side by side or low light test mind you, but it was very apparent the 'caliber' of glass I was looking thru, as a few similar Zeiss and Swaro's. Most all that impressed me were TOP TIER glass/mfg. and MID range scopes, some variables topping out from 6 to no more than 10x, and a even the fixed...6x42 S&B.

Who had/has the Schmidt 4x32, BobinNH or Don, or both? The Shizzle eh for a low fixed power? Just curious.

Not in a hurry to buy an S&B, funds being limited at the moment, but perhaps someday, that said, Which Reticle for them?

I agree.....and would add the 375 to the mix.I have no experience with 35 Whelen or 9.3x62 but would add those to the mix as well if recoil is a factor.

I have a 6X42 S&B, very nice scope. Keep your eyes open in the classifieds as some very good deals come along from time to time

So he can zero in on you.