In this section of the board, we have people that hunt deer in very different environments. From the prairies (plains) to heavy woods. Some guys use different cartridges because of the distance to the target.

Keeping deer in mind, what bullet do you use? Do you feel that there is there a valid technical reason to use any premium bullet - Partition, bonded core or copper bullet?

I have never taken a deer past 150 yd. (estimated) except for when I was visiting friends in Saskatchewan. I had the loan of a 30-06 and used a Hornady 165 gr. Interlock bullet. The deer was approx. 250-300 yd. away.

In Ontario, the most powerful cartridge I've used on deer was a 308 Win. Usually, I take a 303 or 30-30. I've always used a cup and core bullet. I didn't feel it was worth it to use a premium bullet.

How about you?

I love Accubonds.

I have used quite a few. Mostly Barnes X, TTSX and Accubonds. Some Fusions, and a few Partitions as well.
I am a believer in the cup and cores, and if I had a dedicated deer rifle that had an MV of 2800 I would likely use a Hornady Interlock.
Most of my rifles share double duty for moose and elk as well as deer and I am a firmer believer in penetration so premiums it is.
I also like the difference that the premiums make in meat damage when it comes to the 3000fps+ rounds.
I have shot most of my deer between 200-300yds away on the prairies and in the foothills.

I use a premium in the small bores ( .22 centerfires) to assure myself of good bullet performance.Never been dissappointed. From the .257 Bob on up its pretty much conventional bullets for deer. Premiums not needed.Though I havent used anything bigger than a cf .22 for years...

I concur. For some reason, some people don't understand that the farther a bullet travels from the muzzle, the less punch it has.

A 300 WM for example, has about the same energy at 300 yd as a 308 Win has at 100 yd. So what? At three hundred yards, a 300 WM is a 308 Winchester. Hopefully, the shooter is using the right bullet.

I know that premium bullet maker try to design their bullets to function at a wider range of velocities, but again, who cares? You're after deer.

Given their anatomy, I continue to wonder why people pay the extra for a bullet that offers no advantage. Perhaps I should start making 303 bullets again and tell people that they are capable of taking polar bears, browns and water buffaloes.

I use the Nosler Bal-Tip in my m77 Ruger in 280 Rem. and Hornady spire point in my old 6.5 X 55 . Reason for both is the same , that's what is accurate in them.
I guess that I don't have to use the latest and the greatest just because it is the latest and the greatest. The old style bullets still do what I need. On the other hand , I do buy and try some of the premium bullets just for curiosities sake and to see if I'm missing out. Whatever turns your crank.

I tend to work up a hunting load with one great bullet and use it for everything, deer included. Then there is the little fact that the farm I hunted deer on the last couple years has a LARGE grizzly sow and her cubs running around. Last year they were almost as large as her.

The TSX makes more sense in that situation.

Yes you should! Your 200gr are an amazing bullet. I have never collected one from game.
Randy

This is what I do.I don't know what a hunting season holds for me.I've used the same rifle for whitetails, mule deer,elk,antelope and sometimes black bear...sometimes in the same season....and once in awhile had a moose tag that popped up as well.

Like Rick I have done some of this hunting in the bush country of Canada,and it was known to hold grizzlies....not that I worried about it but they were there.

Point being that,after using C&C bullets on deer sized game, I know they will kill them;and I also know that a premium(if you want to call a simple bullet like a Partition a "premium")is not "required".

But said another way there is absolutely no disadvantage to using them either....and I have never observed that any C&C kills materially "better" than the premiums I use.One thing that is for certain is that I can count on the premium to behave a certain way, predictably,about every time...and since I tend to use high velocity cartridges(even in the brush and woods)this is important.

It is a lot simpler for me to grab a rifle and load that I know is zeroed, ready to go,and capable of managing more or less whatever I run into,and that I am familiar with,than get into a game of "deer bullet", "elk bullet","bear bullet", "brush bullet"....etc.If the elk shows up a few days after the deer,no problem.And if he never shows up, the deer is just as dead as if I'd saved a few cents on the C&C.

One load....go kill stuff.JMHO.

Doesn't get much better for a good ol deer bullet/cartridge combo.....

Never...

I tend to use what shoots best in that particular rifle, and if a good old Hornady roundnose shoots best, I start drooling!

The bullet companies would have us to believe that nothing will pass to the hunting grounds in the sky if it isn't bonded or have a plastic tip, which is pure nonsense.

Likewise, most of my shots here in Michigan are close, oftimes in dense cedar swamp. The accuracy factor comes into play here, as often I have to thread that bullet into a hole that contains the vitals. One small twig can spell disaster...so it's best if she puts them where you're pointing.

The roundnose for me is strictly an aesthetic thing...somehow reminding me of red plaid wool jackets and the tag worn on the back. When game that was harvested was pulled out by hand, not an ATV. Plus, I just suspect with more frontal area those big soft bullets just peel open like a banana.

Kudos to those who go Old School!

I use core lokt round noses a lot

Haven't shot a mulie or whitetail with anything but a 140 7mm Accubond for a number of years.Accurate and gets the job done. Monashee

I use the same loads for deer as my moose hunting ammo.So guess most deer were shot with a premium.

Have had the pleasure of taking deer with many different bullets over the years:

.50 cal, 385 gr soft-swaged Hornady Great Plains, from a traditional muzzle loader

.458" 405 gr Rem FNSP from a .45/70 Marlin

Couple of different .44 mag JHP/JSP loads from a revolver

230 gr JHP bullets from a .45 ACP 1911

Quite a few different smaller bullets, 6mm - .30 cal, some "premium" some not. I'd say the Nosler Ballistic Tip is real favorite for both accuracy and lethality, even in the little 95 gr version. Have to say that I'm a real fan of the milder cartridges, 6mm - .30 cal, particularly the 6mm Rem, .25-06 and the .308 Win. No muss, no fuss, just pleasant to shoot, tag-filling rifles.

Shot a few with a 55 gr .223 as well.

Can't think of any that got away or even ran very far. I think it's a lot more about hitting them right, than what they're hit with.

Guy

I use premiums because I can afford to and they shoot well in my rifles. TSX 150 TSX in my wife's 30-06 and 168 TAX in mine. Ammo is the cheapest part of the hunt, and no, I don't think I need them, they just work so well, why not?

I have shot a lot of game animals from moose down, all with, for the most part Rem Corloc's or Horn Interlocks. But all my huntin guns range in velocities from 2,000-3,000fps, & cailbers from the little 250s to 308s to the big bore 38-55
I figure for the price of one box of premiums I can buy two boxes of reg bullets & shoot twice as much.
I just can't figure how all those old guys killed all the game animals they did back in the days before premium bullets.

Nope. Cup and core for this cowboy. I shoot a 270 and load 140gr Hornady BTSP. Have used this combo for yrs and never had a bullet failure or lost an animal. Deer do not require a premium bullet to kill. They are fine boned. Up here in the great white north we have mature bucks that go 350 lbs, which are the ones I target for the better part of 3 weeks every fall, and have never had a problem with penetration.

So, let's see what we've got so far.

Premium bullets are better designed these days. Most are made with a specific job in mind and are robustly constructed to handle dangerous game. With the exception of hunting deer in areas where there is a threat of being attacked by a large, testy carnivore, there still doesn't seem to be any technical reason for using them that I've read so far.

Their special construction - partitioned, bonded or homogenous - adds to the cost. If deer are your target, I'm still at a loss to understand any technical reason to use them.

WRT accuracy, I think it's far to say that premiums are running neck and neck with cup and core bullets. I know that one brand may prove to be "the bee's knees" in your rifle, but overall, they offer nothing extra that way.

I suspect that some people simply like their look - in the same way that consumers find one brand of automobile more visually appealing. Or (gasp!) is it snob appeal?

Is the fact that they are more expensive, guarantee success in your mind? Do you believe that hitting a whitetail at 100 yards with a Partition versus a Core Lokt increases the odds?

Perhaps using a premium bullet inspires your confidence.

This last possibility is often overlooked. Mental conditioning is just as important as your rifle/ammunition. Some would argue what you think about your equipment is more important. The power of positive thinking, IOW.

For me, it started with the fact that I could shoot at 3 out of 4 species during rifle season, before everything started gravitating towards going on draw. In a lot of the foothills zones you never know if a 3pt elk will suddenly make an appearance. Deer don't need premium bullets, but, a hard quartering elk or moose shot is something that needs to be allowed for. Then it is nice to have a little insurance and confidence in a premium bullet.

Good stuff but you left out one reason for using a premium that several have mentioned: simplicity in multi-speciies hunt opportunities. Dangerous game is a different factor.

One poster said it well: "I tend to work up a hunting load with one great bullet and use it for everything, deer included."

For deer alone I would not bother with a premium. But when hunting a place where in the course of a day I may shoot anything from whitetail to moose and elk, I load for the big critter and overkill anything else.

When an opportunity came to hunt little coastal blacktails for a day in mid-season, I killed a small blacktail buck with a 180 grain Swift A-frame, at a range of 15 feet. Overkill to the point of almost funny, but it worked, he tasted good, and no adjustment back and forth to load, sighting in etc. needed. In such a context, I don't think there is any snob nor other appeal for me other than that it keeps things simple.

But when hunting a place where in the course of a day I may shoot anything from whitetail to moose and elk, I load for the big critter and overkill anything else.

So what do you think killed moose & elk for the hunert years before there were premium bullets
Then there's the 90%? of the non-reloader hunters that harvest those big game animals with store bought cheapy bullets every yr.

I suppose we should all go back to driving Model A Ford cars, cause really, they got us from point A to point B, and why would we need something that had newer technology. And years before, smoothbore flintlocks and round balls killed them too. Or sharpened sticks . . . . or Yacua blowguns, or . . . . . . .

It has nothing to do with "need". It has to do with "can".

Steve:
I trust that this finds you doing acceptably well on this last Sunday in July. My how another year seems to be speeding by.

In answer to your initial query, for the most part nowadays at our house we do use what would fall into the definition of a premium bullet when hunting deer at our place.

With apologies for repeating some information here, I'll quickly state that I'm blessed to have both of our girls hunt now and before they started, my good wife and late father hunted as well. That meant on a good year we got to do a fair bit of "bullet testing".

Since about 1989 or thereabout, we've cut our own game and helped friends cut theirs as well though somehow it never occurred to us to keep a tally on what was cut until 2000. Since then, we've passed 85 animals cut and wrapped in our garage - mostly whitetail and mule deer, with 2 sheep, 2� moose and at least a dozen black bears thrown in.

When processing an animal, it is most often very easy to see the effectiveness of the bullet used to kill it. That combined with the obligatory retelling of the story of the hunt lets the observant listener learn a thing or two about cartridges and bullets.

Then too, as Okanagan, Rick F and 7STW have mentioned, where we hunt we can and do carry tags for whitetail buck, mule deer buck, black bear, 6 point minimum bull elk, 2 point bull moose and this year wolf. If we were lucky enough to be drawn in a LEH hunt, there are mountain goats and California Bighorn within 20 minutes up the logging road behind our house.

Lastly, in the past 20 years there have been 3 grizzly bears shot in the area we hunt that were bothering the hunters enough to have that take place. As we've no season here, the shootings get thoroughly investigated after being reported and they all passed the process. So while we've not had a brush with grizzly bears in our back yard, it's not impossible to have happen.

The question often asked about now in the conversation is "what did our fathers or their fathers do without premium bullets?". While on the surface that might have some validity, upon some further consideration I'm not certain that it's not a moot point and at best leads to a bunch of unanswered questions.

These would include how many animals did Uncle Ferd lose because of faulty bullets? We don't know and most likely neither does Uncle Ferd. He'll tell you about the 7x7 bull elk he took a cut at on the Bull River back in '48, but nobody knows if he hit it, much less what the bullet did.

Then too, they might have used something like the old Kling Kor Dominion, which were highly thought of back in the day, as were the Peters Belted......so it would appear that even back in the day there was a segment of hunters that weren't altogether pleased with "regular" bullet performance.

The invention of the Nosler Partition and if I was to guess, the RWS H-Mantle stemmed from someone being unsatisfied with the performance of a regular cup and core.

So what we've seen with deer carcasses has been that while the premium bullets might not kill deer any better and certainly no deader than a cup and core, the failure rate hasn't been any worse either.

Sometimes the cost of premium bullets comes into discussion as well, but I really can't see that as being an impediment to one either hunting that year or not.

I can't speak to the costs of hunting in any other part of the world, but for the girls and I to buy 3 BC hunting licences and tags will be right around $300. Decent hunting boots run well over $300 these days, at least Meindl or Kenetrek do out here. Most weekends we'll be able to put $100 worth of diesel into our pickup, while wearing out the $1200 tires and we've not even picked up some discount binoculars for the crew from Doug at Cameraland yet......so a couple of bullets that are $.30 more than a Core Lokt aren't going to keep us off the mountain.

Lastly, I'll end with these examples of "premium" bullets that did work extremely well on local deer. In fact based upon my experience I'd say much better than "regular" bullets would have given the shot placement and resulting tissue damage.

From the left .257" 80gr Barnes TTSX - lost less than 1 grain, .277" 130gr Hornady GMX - lost about a grain, .308" 168gr Barnes TSX - lost less than 1 grain.


None of the above is meant to imply that anyone else, anywhere or hunting anything should do what they do any differently. It's meant only to convey how our Okanagan family hunts and nothing more.

All the best in the upcoming week Steve.

Regards,
Dwayne

Thanks for the posts everyone.

The only answer that makes sense to me so far is a single load for different species of game. One load for simplicity.

With this in mind, I wonder how many here live/hunt in such an area? Specifically, you can walk out your front door or leave your hunt camp and encounter two or more "in season" animals. Or one species and a big bear.

Back home in MT, I could saddle up in my mom's yard and hunt deer, elk, black bear, (unlikely but very possibly) cougar and most recently wolf all at the same time. I usually targeted one species but if I hadn't filled any tags yet the possibility was always there. I never did get drawn for goat or moose in that area, but if I did they would have been added too.

I still used good ol' cup and cores and never had a problem, and I have killed all of the species listed (except goat).

As Dog Hunter said...we have a number of critters here on license at the same time. My fave hunting spot will have whitetail, mule deer, elk, lion,black bear, and wolf all open season at the same time...

That's great. I can only manage deer and moose. There are black bears around as well, but they aren't in season during the moose season.

I must specify though, I shoot behind the shoulder, and don't often use ultra velocity rounds. Basically, average velocity rounds and I almost always punch both lungs without hitting any major bone. For my puposes, cup and cores work just fine.

Yes, I do. There are several reasons including: multi game opportunities, unexpected and unwelcome attention while hunting, consistency in point of impact, consistency in performance, and economics. I will differentiate between things I "know" to be true and things I hypothesize to be true or "think".

The first is something I "know" to be true. Where I hunt I have opportunity for Mule deer, Whitetail, Moose, Elk, Black bear, and Grizzly. With my 338wm I generally hunt everything with 250grn Swift AFrames. From my experience there is minimal meat damage. With my 3006 180 grn Swift AFrames. These weights seem to work well with anything I've encountered.

"Know" The second reason is that there is a broad variety of wildlife where I hunt, including Grizzlies. In fact, with these new restrictive draws there are more Grizzlies than I can remember around. Heck one raided a guy's chicken coop on the outskirts of town last fall. Two falls ago I found myself standing in a Spruce swamp on a little rise. The ground was all torn up and some small trees looked like they had been bitten in half. On looking down I saw what looked lilke part of a moose protruding from the "rise" I was on.

"Know" The third is point of impact. I tend to tune a rifle to one load with one bullet so that I can shoot effectively to the ranges that I have worked at. I have found this to be quite important after 300 yards. While it is true that one can be precise with many bullet types and weights I simply do not have the time to attain this - so I shoot one multipurpose bullet for all game and ranges.

"Think" I think the terminal performance of the Swift AFrame is the superior to interlocks or other less expensive bullets. I think this because of the bullets I have recovered the Swift AFrame retained the most weight, had a nice wounded channel, and penetrated well. Some of my hunting partners have experienced significant meat damage from their bullets breaking into a number of pieces and/or failing to penetrate. Those rifles were 7mm rem mag, 300 weatherby, and 300 ultramag. From what I can recall the bullets were Remington yellow and green box, federal blue box, and interlocks. I recognive that these are higher velocity cartridges and this may play a role in the damage.

"Know" Finally, economics, I have some, albeit inconclusive, evidence that the premium bullet works better and the cost of a premium bullet composes less than 1/3% of the cost of a week hunting trip and the non premium less than 1/6%. Heck, I'll just go nuts and return a couple of pop bottles so that I can spring for a premium bullet.

Remarkably good post, Dwayne. Hope you are having a great morning.

I take the simple approach. My hunting rifles are either a Sharps 45-70, or a Marlin 1895 Cowboy in the same caliber, and I shoot the same load in both rifles.

The load is a cast 480 grain flatnosed bullet out of a Lyman 457121 mold and 66 grains of 3f black powder drives it at 1242 fps. 36 grains of IMR 3031 gives 1325 fps with the same bullet. I have used both loads in both North America and South Africa and have taken deer, hogs, elk, and four bison in North America. I have taken several kudu, two zebra, black and blue wildebeast as well as blesbok, springbuck, and impala in South Africa, and the ONLY bullet I have recovered was from a zebra that was a one shot DRT. Everything else is a complete pass through.

To me it is a magic combination, as ladder sights on either rifle enable you to reach WAY out there if needed, and it gives bone crushing power close in on things that would eat you. Accuracy, light recoil, and power AND PENETRATION in one bullet and load for anything, anywhere. It doesn't get any better than that for me.

Good stuff but you left out one reason for using a premium that several have mentioned: simplicity in multi-speciies hunt opportunities. Dangerous game is a different factor.

One poster said it well: "I tend to work up a hunting load with one great bullet and use it for everything, deer included."

For deer alone I would not bother with a premium. But when hunting a place where in the course of a day I may shoot anything from whitetail to moose and elk, I load for the big critter and overkill anything else.

When an opportunity came to hunt little coastal blacktails for a day in mid-season, I killed a small blacktail buck with a 180 grain Swift A-frame, at a range of 15 feet. Overkill to the point of almost funny, but it worked, he tasted good, and no adjustment back and forth to load, sighting in etc. needed. In such a context, I don't think there is any snob nor other appeal for me other than that it keeps things simple.

I had a similar experience with a little 2 point blacktail, 160 grain NP out of a .280 talk about over-penetration, there were bits of lung spread over a wide area. I agree with keeping it simple as well, one load for all species.

Moose, deer, black bear and wolves have all been seen in my back yard, and I have shot all but the wolf and bear (and could have shot them as well) within a four mile walk of the back step. Got one moose FROM my back step. I live among them critters.

Brother Keith;
I trust this finds you and yours doing well on this warm Sunday afternoon sir. We're about to head up to Kelowna to look at a good used, very light and may I say Canadian made canoe - a project that I've been working toward for years now!

Anyway, your back step moose story just increased your "stock" in my view.

As the story goes out here in BC - "Where's the best place to shoot a moose?" to which the answer invariably is "On the road son, on the road....."

I very vividly recall being unable to so much as roll over the only bull moose I've shot to date. While I was finally able to maneuver my pickup within half a kilometer or so, it was still a "fair bit of work" to take him apart and get him there on my own.

The thought that kept on repeating itself over and over was, "What have you done Dwayne? What have you done!"

Your back porch story shows that you have most definitely evolved into a higher form of moose hunter than I sir.

All the best of our Lord's blessings to you and yours in the upcoming week Brother Keith.

Dwayne

I mentioned one load simplicity earlier.

I think we've established that the ability to use one load for several different animals is at the top of most everyone's list.

Excellent roundtable. Everyone, pat yourselves on the back!

As the story goes out here in BC - "Where's the best place to shoot a moose?" to which the answer invariably is "On the road son, on the road....."

Greetings Dwayne,

Now that is funny....and true!

If it is multi species we're after, then yes definately a premium bullet is required. Up until I had a 338-06AI built my only big game rifle was a 270. The only weight bullet I shot was 140gr. And in that weight I shot a 140gr FailSafe to keep thing s simple. Took Elk, Moose and Deer with that load having complete pass throughs on all of them. But again, for deer alone I'm convinced that premium bullets are not required. In fact I think cup and core bullets result in more devastating, and thus quicker kills.

Most deer I have killed have been via a Partition. I have also used Horn Interlocks and I really like the 154 round nose.

The Partition combines the best the cup and core has to offer plus the design of the partition for increased penetration. No ordinary cup and core even comes close.

Why use a plain Jayne when you don't have to? Partitions ain't exactly "new" to the market.

Steve

May I inject my reasons for using premium bullets?
I want to.
I love testing out the "new", it is fun for me. The newest turkey premium loads, TTSX, on deer, Accubonds, and the list goes on. Exploring, experimenting, new horizons, hunting new territory, testing new powders, are all a joy to me. I even own and shoot a 300WSM. (Works great with 180 TSX an Newfoundland Moose) I have shot nearly every weight premium I know of through it.

I don't need premiums. In fact it was a plain ole lead 40 grain .22 long rifle that took my first whitetail. Shot a pile of them with a model 64 Win. 32 Spl. with round nose 170 factory stuff and I know the tired old 30-06 will do it all, but I like the new.

I can say that having the same great wife for the past 50 years has been a new adventure every day. So has been following Jesus around this state. (NY) They are about the only two constants in my life.

I love variety and My Lord has promised an abundant life. Neither of which I could experience sticking with the old, tired and reliable unchanged of this world.

Amazing as it may be I even have a computer.

Hunt deer with premiums? Sure do. 'Cause I want to and can.

The best to you Steve.

Dwayne,

I have also toted the monsters a quarter at a time across portages on a stretcher made out of a couple small spruce trees . . . . ask medicman . . .. . he was on the other end of the stretcher! Earned every bite of the meat we got from that one, and he fell in waste deep ice cold water. (Think high pitched descant little girl screams as the gonads disappear somewhere warmer. )

One poster said it well: "I tend to work up a hunting load with one great bullet and use it for everything, deer included."

I agree, I have shot more moose than I care to try to remember, most all with 150gn Cor'locs or Interlocks out of a .280
I use the same combo for quite a bit of my whitetail hunting.
A shot thru the boiler of any animal from moose down works fine with standard bullets.
Not saying there's not a place for premiums, if I was to go chasing moose with a 250sav, Partitions would def be in the chamber or if I were to hunt where game might be hunting me

I am shocked. It is shocking that you confess to shooting cor'locs or Interlocks which (as the names imply) are modifications to improve cup & core bullets. How could you!!! You have betrayed the purity of using 19th century unimproved cup & core technology!! The point of this thread is to satirize anyone who uses bullet improvements developed since about 1920. But even more shocking is that you shoot these improved bullets in a .280! At least I was a purist and shot 150 Corlocks (sp?) out of a 30-30. (Incidentally, that is a superb deer killing combo.)

I hope you realize this is all tongue in cheek funning. 150 cor�locs in a .280 is a classy combo. Good for you!

My journey started with cor'locs in a 30-30. I went to Sierras in a 30-06 after I started hand loading. After a LOT of game killed I had noticed obvious shortcomings and inconsistencies in terminal bullet performance in both cor-locs and Sierras. I went to Nosler Partitions, and then to Swift A-frames for everything for many years.

My fairly extensive observation is that better constructed bullets perform better inside game --- and of much more importance to me--- they do it FAR more consistently than cup and core. I cheerfully concede that anyone may use whatever he chooses and hold any opinion he wants as to why others may choose a different bullet. One of my confident opinions is that there are bullets constructed to perform significantly better than cup and core designs � and so I use them for large critters with deer thrown in.

There have been some great responses - even from people that admit to using jacketed bullets!

On another thread I said that there was a fellow going through the checkout at Epps today who paid $47.99 ($54.23 with taxes. 13% GST here in Onterrible) for 20 Federal 30-30 cartridges. They were loaded with Barnes TSX bullets.

Part four or five of this discussion: We've talked about using premium bullets on deer. Consensus was that it was convenient to develop one load to cover different species of game. Good so far?

I know that many of you reload, and I'm thinking that if you're reloading for a 30-30, the overwhelming majority would be using it for deer. I'm guessing that fewer people would stuff Barnes bullets into their 30-30 cases, based on the cartridge and its probable target. But what about factory stuff?

So, my question. Would you pay $54 for a box of 30-30 factory ammunition with the Barnes bullets, or go for a 150/170 C&C from Win or Rem?

Steve, Thank you for your graciousness to my clumsy humour.

As to your question: for deer with 30-30 for me it would be 150 grain c&c purchased at the cheapest hunting season sale I could find. Remington cor-locts would be my first choice if I could find them on sale. $50 for 30-30 deer ammo!!?? No way.

I have a bolt action 30-30 (stacked magazine) and have been tempted to hand load some pointed bullets for it, but never have.

I keep thinking that I met you at an Outdoor Canada get together at the publisher's in Toronto way back probably in the 80's. Possible?

That's what I'd do too. Buy something on sale or at least cheap. I did own a NEF Handi in 30-30 and tried pointy bullets, but things didn't pan out.



This is very possible. After I came home from Europe and was posted Quebec, I was trying (unsuccessfully) to flog some of my work in magazines like OOOD, OC and Western Sportsman. I spent time making the rounds.


Bob Jones

My old military instructor, Robert H. Jones, (Sgt Bob, Capt Nemo) used to write for OOOD, BC Outdoors and some others. He'd drag me to the odd event. The last one before he moved to Vancouver Island was a hunting and fishing show at the International Centre in Mississauga. He was working the OOOD fishing pond where you could hook a plastic fish and win a prize - a lure, 1 yr subscriptions, etc. Good for the kids. Cheesy for the grown ups.

Anyway, it was bad timing on my part as the anti-gun rhetoric was at full tilt. Unless you were on staff at a magazine, you weren't going to get much published. I was still in the military and was not going to chance pulling the plug for two or three published articles a year!

It is shocking that you confess to shooting cor'locs or Interlocks which (as the names imply) are modifications to improve cup & core bullets.


Ya Whoo...I just discovered I have been useing premium bullets all along (insert dancing smiley here).

I now officially suggest no game should ever be shot with anything but premiums

For killin deer no.I use siera gk's For the purpose of killin deer the c&c bullet gets the job done quite nicely in the ought six,if I was shootin one of them explosive death machienes like a .270 I might go with a less frangible bullet just to save meat

I use a premium bullet , mainly because my hunting ethics require a premium result . Not to say others don't require that , but why should I chance it for the animals sake.

You gotta use premium bullets for deer and moose that cost at least $100 per box of 50 to make absolutely sure that the stump on the other side of the animal is dead.
Too many hunters being attacked by wounded tree stumps to take a chance on a cheap Hornady Interlock or a Remy Core-Lokt that just kills the animal you are shooting at.
Another advantage in using premium bullets is your much lighter wallet will be less of a drag when walking through the bush hunting.

Bob Jones

Nice picture of Edward G. Robinson.

I have a few 30-30 rifles and those that I shoot are generally loaded with which ever bullet weight, either 150 or 170 grains, shoots best in that particular rifle. In those rifles, I shoot whatever brand of 30-30 factory ammo is on sale, with Federal blue box almost always the least expensive, at about $16 per box of 20 rounds.

I have some of the more expensive Hornady LeverEvolution 160 grain 30-30 ammo around, but haven't shot any in the Marlin 336, Mossberg 472, or Savage 340 rifles that were scoped and in the rack.

As a side note, I have shot more deer with Federal 80 grain factory ammo in 243 and 6mm than any other single bullet, but I always load my 243 and 6mm ammo with premium bullets, usually Partitions. Why? 'Cause they shoot good groups and always penetrate through/through. The Federal 80 grain ammo is pretty accurate, but I don't recall a single through/through, just quick kills on lung shots.

Jeff

good post pricedo

Please don't encourage him.

I bought 16 boxes of Remington 150 grain 30-30 ammo 'cause it was on sale for $9 per box. Also bought a few boxes of Wincheser 270 WSM 150 grain ammo 'cause it was on sale for $15 per box. Might not need it now, but might somewhere down the line.

Jeff

A good source of cheap brass if nothing else.

You conveniently missed the reason that multiple people gave for using premium bullets when deer hunting: They like to use ONE BULLET for everything. I can load up a 150 Partition in my 280 Ackley or 7mm Rem and use it for deer, elk, moose, kudu, etc.

If you like cup and core bullets, fine. But to suggest that using a premium is nothing more than "snob appeal" comes across as some sort of weird insecurity. Don't try so hard.

+1

Oh Richard, I didn't conveniently leave anything out.That's what was posted to that point.



This next thing is called a question. It's what you ask when you're not sure or would like clarification/more info.



I never suggested snob appeal. I asked if this could be a reason.

This weird insecurity you suggested I might be suffering from - nope, I am not plagued by that. Do I like cup and core bullets? Yes. Do I use them exclusively? Nope. I have been known to use other types.

This last thing - trying too hard - that had me puzzled. Then I thought you were just posting something silly to lighten the mood.

At any rate, it's my thread. I can try hard if I want. Or I can just continue to ask questions.

Ya kno before the gun rags told us c'c bullets weren't good for anything but paper wieghts we killed everything with'em,so did our Dads and grand Dads..jus sayin

Nope, if your rifle doesn't have CRF, a 10 kazillion dollar Swarhotski Terminator or whatever scope on top of it and shoot premium bullets at warp factor 3 you might as well stay home.

I don't have any of that stuff so I wonder who keeps hanging that multi-point buck from the meat pole in my yard every fall. Couldn'ta been me with the antiquated relic of a levergun I hunt with. Could it?

Yes and no

Hot fast rifle I tend to use x bullets

Other than that, with low or slow nope

Pricedo,

Nobody said you HAVE to use premium bullets. The question asked was DO YOU. Obviously you don't.

Well here's the reason I use one bullet in my 280. The old Cor'loc 150 or Horn Interlock 150 has been killing deer, bear & ...gasp moose for yrs, my go to gun never has to be resighted to change bullets.
What was your reason again
If there was a possibility I might have to deal with big mean game I would certainly consider premium bullets or carry a larger gun, but bears around here seldom get larger than 400lbs.

I have never shot an animal , be it deer moose or bear, that died any fast with a "premium" than with a "non premium" bullet.
I've killed a mess of them with a pathed round bal in three different calibers as well, yet some "experts " say you need to use a Maxi ir minie ball for proper penetration, blah , blah, blah.
HORSEFEATHERS!!!
I've used Barnes, Nosler, Speer, Seirra, Hornady, most all the popular brands.

I shoot what works in my rifles, and on any given day may run into black bears, mosose, mule deer or white tails - I NEVER worried that I was using a cup and core bulllet or a patched round ball insted of a H mantel style or monolithic style bullet.
I was never one to worry about what I was shooting or shooting at, I try to concentrate on HOW I am shooting.
Cat

HEY.. ...don't mess up a good thread with common sense! many won't understand you!

Well how do you define the word Premium? I never bought into this Premium vs cup and core el cheap o bullet argument!. It all depends on what your bullet launcher is! for example, a 30-30 launching 170 gr bullets of a cup and core nature will perform to perfection. Now you take that same bullet and load it to the max in say a 30-06 and that same bullet will prove to be a missable failure, with regard to what it will do or not do when it smacks meat. Now you take the same 30-06 and load it with either a 165 or 180 gr Hornaday SP and you get the same kind of seller performance that the 30-30 delivers with the 170 gr bullet. Bullet choice is based on what your bullet launcher is, Now if you are going to shoot the same deer with a 300 Weatherby, The better the bullet has to be because of the operating vel. you get So you go with something along the lines of a 180 gr or 200 gr bullet that is a little stouter made than say what you would choose for a 30-06. This is such a subjective subject that there is really no real answer that will fit all shooting and hunting situations. I do most of my hunting these days with a 7mm RM. For my deer hunting I lean to heavier for cal bullets because where and how I hunt. Distances are not long. As it turns out, Federal Fusions 150 gr Loads and the Blue Box Federal 150 gr Loads work very will with not much in the way of blood shot venison. My bullet launcher is a little much, but I like the rifle so I pick reasonable weight bullets.

The difference is the practical C&C and lead bullets I use and that have worked for years are designed to target game and the so-called premium bullets principal targets are wallets.
Take those Barnes X bullets for example and their fancy named offspring with all the supertechno sounding descriptive names.
Priced some the other day.......$35 for 20 bullets or a coupla ounces of copper alloy!
GIVE ME A F'N BREAK !!

Riddle: How do you turn copper into gold?
Solution: Make "X" bullets out of it.

Remarkable how a whole premium bullet industry can be based on gimmick merchandising. You could sell a refrigerator to an Eskimo if you can come up with the right gimmick sales pitch.

The boys at Barnes and Nosler .........like the old song says........"They're money makin fools".

I've never seen a .30-30 bullet come apart, even when shot into logs or stumps, and I've never recovered one from a deer, so I can't see any advantage for using a premium bullet in a rifle of that class. I've often wondered why nosler even makes a 170 gr. partition.

In my 7x57, with lighter bullets and high velocities (2900fps), I do use partitions, because the range is sometimes short and I don't want the bullet to come apart. I had a core/jacket separation with a Hornady Interlock under those circumstances, and I don't want a repeat.

I think the Nosler is still the best of the premiums, with the soft front half and the solid shank, you get the best of both worlds. If your rifle shoots them well, there's no disadvantage to using them except for cost.

I'm not sure where I would draw the line for using conventional or premium bullets, probably around 2500-2600 fps. My .30-30 has never fired a premium bullet however, and probably never will.

when i was 16 YO or so, i was hunting whitetails with a .243 when i happened onto a 450# blackie at spitting distance. i was using the plain 'ol green box Sierrias. long story short, i will never factor 'economy' into hunting bullet selection ever again.

For deer I shoot a 257Roberts with 100gr Hornadys and pretty much nothing else for the last ten yrs.

I won't be needing anything for bear protection, won't have a tag for black bear or moose, ranges will be fairly short, velocity will be modest. C&C bullets will work just fine under these circumstances in any std chambering.

If I lived where there was large bears who might want to eat me or where a very high velocity may be needed to flatten out long ranges, I may reconsider and shoot a TSX or Partition for deer.

Lots of variables as seen with the answers thus far.

.

As common sense as it get, Cub.

Which is a good reason to examine one's personal requirements - game to be pursued, expected range of encounter and the cartridge to be used - before selecting the bullet.

What might be a necessity in BC would be unimportant/unnecessary in NB.

...... which IS the bottom line here.



.

Exactly.