Looks like BC is finally admitting they have a problem. According to a recent study, the moose population in the northeast part of the province is down a whopping 70%. One of the biologists said they are going to collar some predators to see what impact they are having. Of course they are saying early indicators point to oil/gas development that provides easy access for predators. That idea is wrong on so many levels I won't even comment on it. One interesting tidbit they talked about was the fact that in one small area ( Farrell Creek,) the moose population actually increased by 70% and they don't know why, and thats where I have a problem.
I grew up on a ranch not far from Farrell Creek and as anyone who has ever been there knows, there is more oil/gas exploration in that area than just about anywhere in the province. You would think that fact would cause them to stop and think about it for a minute, but they know they can say just about anything and Joe Public won't have a clue. I have a pretty good idea why the moose population in the Farrell Creek area is on the rise and it has nothing to do with a lack of industry.....Im betting the locals have been "collaring" some predators for awhile now....
A friend did a 10-day hunt north of Ft St John this past fall, he saw 9 different grizzly bears during his hunt. Thats one guy on foot......look for the population to continue to decline with them closing the grizzly hunt. Wouldn't want to be a hunter with an expensive hunt booked in that region right now....or an outfitter sitting in a booth at SCI trying to sell them.
The whole thing really riles me up. I grew up, and started my guiding career in that part of the world, and it was at one time, without a doubt, the best big game hunting area in North America. Growing up we could kill a moose in a day or so without fail. In the early 80s I was guiding in the Halfway River country, it was nothing to see 15-20 good bulls every day, day in day out. The outfitter I worked for took 80-120 moose each and every year. Like most of the outfitters of his era, he had his own style of wildlife management, and it worked. The most wolves I have ever seen in one bunch was in his area. We caught 19 sleeping on an open knoll one day, 16 made it to the timber....I keep hoping our wildlife managers will wake up and start doing their job, but Im not holding my breath.....
You never know how much management is based on science or politics. Talking to a few outfitters in the SE region where caribou numbers are drastically down, the province thought there was too much predation by wolves, but they thought there were too many wolves because there were too many moose for them to eat. The answer was to reduce the moose numbers, in hope of reducing the wolf numbers, in hope of increasing the caribou numbers. Makes me wonder why they didn't just shoot more wolves.
Common sense and biology seem to have been back burnered everywhere. Here in NYS, swans and hogs have been officially declared as invasive species, but the state has made it illegal to shoot them. Further, we have a season on coyotes. Frustrating.
For starters the cow LEH and the open calf season for the under 18 and over 65 is a cash cow and a utter joke.
The Southern Lakes Region appears to have the same issues IMO.
I live in the Northeast part of BC, and what Yukon is saying is true Moose numbers are in the toilet.
Never even tried for one, tried for Elk, nothing in the freezer, Their numbers are down also.
Wolves don't care what animal they eat.
There seemed to be less wood bison on the Alcan last week.....are you guys eating em?
^^^^^ Not sure about the Bison Herds up around the Liard Hotsprings,
Folks who have got the Bison LEH up around the halfway are saying the numbers are way down
Wolves don't care what animals they eat..LOL
Time to start knocking their numbers way back.
Up around my neck of the woods, the Government was killing the wolves off to the tune of around 400 in the last 3 yrs, all in the hopes of trying to save a small herd of Woodland Caribou.
People are still seeing lots of the buggers ( Wolves ) though.
With the change of Government here in BC, good luck with culling the wolves though, and cancelling the Grizzly hunt won't help..
I agree the NDP will set us back. They cater to the Greenpeace crowd
Doesn't matter what government that is in power as it started with the Liberal government.
First taking away hunting opportunities from resident hunters and giving them to guide outfitters catering to foreigners.
Then allowing the wolf population to skyrocket at an alarming rate, the hunting is going to get alot worse before it gets better, if ever as it seems that the direct approach to ending hunting isn't popular.
The government here seems to like the indirect approach to ruining the hunting in BC, taking the "I didn't do nuffin" attitude.
Doesn't matter what government that is in power as it started with the Liberal government.
First taking away hunting opportunities from resident hunters and giving them to guide outfitters catering to foreigners.
Then allowing the wolf population to skyrocket at an alarming rate, the hunting is going to get alot worse before it gets better, if ever as it seems that the direct approach to ending hunting isn't popular.
The government here seems to like the indirect approach to ruining the hunting in BC, taking the "I didn't do nuffin" attitude.
Very well put, this is, IMHO, exactly what is and has been happening for many years now and I do NOT see the current administration changing this "policy" to benefit we ordinary peons.
What better way to further damage individualism, freedom, motor vehicle and GUN ownership and self-reliance than to quietly and systematically eliminate hunting and, in their warped minds, the "need" for GUNS?
With the massive change in BC-Canadian demographics since the time of the vile Pierre Trudeau, now accelerated by his moronic son, the social "substrate" is evermore cooperative to such chicanery.
Will this change in time, I doubt it and expect to see the end of BC hunting before I die.
^^^^^yup, "they" whoever they are will turn this province into the California of Canada.
Light off several million acres of mature willows and wait about 4 years.
Light off several million acres of mature willows and wait about 4 years.
After the worst fire season recorded we just probably had several million acres of prime moose and mule deer habitat burn in BC.
However, those in charge (if there is anyone) will through complete buffoonery destroy that which nature has created. If the lawmakers dont restrict vehicular traffic in these area's the ungulate pops will be hit hard and they will simply be shot.
This is what happens repeatedly in this province, biologists have been pulling their hair out for years as their recommendations are never taken seriously.
Wait, they did impose a off road vehicle restriction for everyone, except the natives can still quad around the burnt area's legally for whatever reason, mostly hunting.
Every fire around my part of the province is met with waves of hunters driving around shooting everything that sticks its head out as there are roads everywhere, making a big deal out of the big racked buck they just shot, but after a few years it dries up, I haven't seen a moose for 2 years now.
The Southern Lakes Region appears to have the same issues IMO.
Yep we do have a problem for sure. Ours is a combination of predators ( lots of bears and wolves) and some of our citizens are allowed to take whatever they want whenever they want.....they prefer cows...
I always get a kick out of the stories of how many moose (elk, deer, bear, pick your animal) we used to be able to shoot and now there are hardly any left. Reminds me of an old fellow who showed me pictures of pick-up loads of mule deer they shot in one drainage and said he didn't know where they had all gone. Game population problems arise from biologists who couldn't manage a table for two and hunters who will accept no responsibility. Our elk population is way down and it is down because we shot them when biologists decided they wanted to reduce elk numbers to provide more grazing for cattle. Predators need to be hunted (and we are allowed to do that) and hunting of reduced ungulate populations need to be restricted until they recover. Our whitetail deer are way down. This is primarily because of a liberal doe season and the influx of hunters shooting them but also because of a burgeoning coyote population. I passed on hunting a whitetail this year and plan to do a little work on the coyote population over the winter. GD
I always get a kick out of the stories of how many moose (elk, deer, bear, pick your animal) we used to be able to shoot and now there are hardly any left. Reminds me of an old fellow who showed me pictures of pick-up loads of mule deer they shot in one drainage and said he didn't know where they had all gone. Game population problems arise from biologists who couldn't manage a table for two and hunters who will accept no responsibility. Our elk population is way down and it is down because we shot them when biologists decided they wanted to reduce elk numbers to provide more grazing for cattle. Predators need to be hunted (and we are allowed to do that) and hunting of reduced ungulate populations need to be restricted until they recover. Our whitetail deer are way down. This is primarily because of a liberal doe season and the influx of hunters shooting them but also because of a burgeoning coyote population. I passed on hunting a whitetail this year and plan to do a little work on the coyote population over the winter. GD
What happened in your neck of the woods and what happened here are totally different. Yes biologists were part of the problem, hunters were not. The area in question, is for the most part extremely remote. The outfitters who operate in that area managed it themselves until very recently. All those years they did their thing, the ungulate population not only stayed stable, it actually increased. At one time it was said there were more moose in that country than anywhere in NA, and I believe it. As soon as it became a serious deal to get caught doing predator control, the outfitters were forced to quit. Things went downhill fast after that. There are millions of acres here that are never hunted....by anyone, yet ungulate populations are at all time lows. Meanwhile wolf and bear numbers are way up.....its not hard to see the problem.
I always get a kick out of the stories of how many moose (elk, deer, bear, pick your animal) we used to be able to shoot and now there are hardly any left. Reminds me of an old fellow who showed me pictures of pick-up loads of mule deer they shot in one drainage and said he didn't know where they had all gone. Game population problems arise from biologists who couldn't manage a table for two and hunters who will accept no responsibility. Our elk population is way down and it is down because we shot them when biologists decided they wanted to reduce elk numbers to provide more grazing for cattle. Predators need to be hunted (and we are allowed to do that) and hunting of reduced ungulate populations need to be restricted until they recover. Our whitetail deer are way down. This is primarily because of a liberal doe season and the influx of hunters shooting them but also because of a burgeoning coyote population. I passed on hunting a whitetail this year and plan to do a little work on the coyote population over the winter. GD
Overhunting isn't the problem, loss of habitat and the ability for ungulates to reproduce normally, access to the land, and wolves are the big issues.
I suppose if all hunting ceased, game pops wont increase, it would only supply more food for the wolves. Fact is this province could easily have a much higher harvest if it were too....make the forest companies pay their fair share and at the very least restore what they destroy and deactivate the ridiculous network of roads.
When a Wolf eats an estimated 10 Elk a year on average and we have an explosion of Wolves...we have a problem....we have a hippie loving government that doesn't even put half the money we pay for hunting licencing, tags, etc back into wildlife, it go's back to general revenue.
Whitetail deer pops are way down because its what the managers want, so as to benefit the Mule deer pops, whether it will work or not I dont know, in some areas yes, but some it wont, ie: what about the area's that were poor mule deer habitat to begin with?
Mule deer and Moose need forest fires, simple, the roads need to be deactivated or vehicle restrictions put in place after these fires, ungulates will increase rapidly.
A classic example of a hunters refusal to accept any responsibility for game population reduction. The network of roads is a problem but it's a problem because it allows access and increases the harvest. I agree that most roads should be deactivated and, further, ATV use needs to be restricted in those same areas. Deactivating a road then allowing motorized vehicle in anyway does not accomplish much. Please understand, I'm not saying harvest by hunters is the sole cause of population reduction but it is a major contributor and is aided by increased access. Winter hunting (out of season) using snowmobiles, by those who are allowed to do so, also has a pretty big effect. As far as predation is concerned, we are allowed to hunt predators here in BC and there is no reason not to do so in areas where predator populations are a major problem. The point is, when ungulate numbers are down, adjustments to hunting pressure have to happen to allow the population to recover. If, at the same time, hunters switch to hunting predators for a year or two, all the better. We, as hunters, have to accept responsibility for our part and wildlife managers have to manage wildlife for the benefit of wildlife rather than for special interests. GD
673 I agree completely. The grizzly population is another big problem. They take a lot more moose than most people realize. Now that they are closing the season on them, I expect things will get much worse over the next 10-years or so.
Greydog
Your right I am refusing to accept responsibility for game pop reduction, why is that my fault, I never shot anything this year, is it my fault?
I thought I was clear on who to point the fingers at.
Resident hunters didn't give away 25% of the annual allowable harvest to G/O, not my fault either.
Your fellow hunters are not the reason for poor habitat, why not look to the forest companies who put FA back into wildlife initiatives?
They dont de-activate the roads, and all they do is take.
Something to keep in mind is...If you think that if some seasons are changed for a short time then re-instated, think again, once there gone they wont be coming back.
Yes it is hunters who have greater access= more game shot, I agree.
Its also allowing wolves to move freely like panzer divisons, moving efficiently along the man made corridors, however when your dealing with wolves who breed like rabbits, have no enemies, except man, we will never shoot even a small % of wolves.
Theres going to be huge increases in ungulate pops once the fire habitat comes to fruition, it will be short lived unless they address the vehicular traffic in these new areas,,,,,fire=habitat and it is that simple.
Why should the resident hunting community be held accountable for poor ungulate numbers?
Greydog
Your right I am refusing to accept responsibility for game pop reduction, why is that my fault, I never shot anything this year, is it my fault?
I thought I was clear on who to point the fingers at.
Resident hunters didn't give away 25% of the annual allowable harvest to G/O, not my fault either.
Your fellow hunters are not the reason for poor habitat, why not look to the forest companies who put FA back into wildlife initiatives?
They dont de-activate the roads, and all they do is take.
Something to keep in mind is...If you think that if some seasons are changed for a short time then re-instated, think again, once there gone they wont be coming back.
Yes it is hunters who have greater access= more game shot, I agree.
Its also allowing wolves to move freely like panzer divisons, moving efficiently along the man made corridors, however when your dealing with wolves who breed like rabbits, have no enemies, except man, we will never shoot even a small % of wolves.
Theres going to be huge increases in ungulate pops once the fire habitat comes to fruition, it will be short lived unless they address the vehicular traffic in these new areas,,,,,fire=habitat and it is that simple.
Why should the resident hunting community be held accountable for poor ungulate numbers?
Your correct
amazing that some still think hunters are to blame and ignore the most obvious problems
Good observation about wolves using roads to move and wipe out game. ask any outfitter up in Canada what the biggest problem is now regarding lack of moose, elk and deer and they will say the wolves and bears to a lesser extent. And wolves breed like rabbits and increase population about 30 per cent a year.
The only proven way to control them is trapping and poison and govt will never allow it up north. Idaho down here has finally beginning to start getting wolves under control but have many years yet to reduce populations. But they allow trapping and can shoot them from planes and helicopters
Greydog
Your right I am refusing to accept responsibility for game pop reduction, why is that my fault, I never shot anything this year, is it my fault?
I thought I was clear on who to point the fingers at.
Resident hunters didn't give away 25% of the annual allowable harvest to G/O, not my fault either.
Your fellow hunters are not the reason for poor habitat, why not look to the forest companies who put FA back into wildlife initiatives?
They dont de-activate the roads, and all they do is take.
Something to keep in mind is...If you think that if some seasons are changed for a short time then re-instated, think again, once there gone they wont be coming back.
Yes it is hunters who have greater access= more game shot, I agree.
Its also allowing wolves to move freely like panzer divisons, moving efficiently along the man made corridors, however when your dealing with wolves who breed like rabbits, have no enemies, except man, we will never shoot even a small % of wolves.
Theres going to be huge increases in ungulate pops once the fire habitat comes to fruition, it will be short lived unless they address the vehicular traffic in these new areas,,,,,fire=habitat and it is that simple.
Why should the resident hunting community be held accountable for poor ungulate numbers?
Your correct
^^^^^^^^^ I agree with 673, etc, on this issue and advocate for a 10% MAX. share of our BC game for GOs and foreign hunters as well as serious predator control by the F&W, BUT, this and the road restrictions NEED much greater funding and field CO staff to monitor and enforce these policies.
Will this happen, I doubt it and the huge influx of foreigners as immigrants into BC is a major reason why. So, I am not optimistic.
ribka trapping wolves is allowed up here. I do lots of it. Most effective method is arial control. They are doing some......but need to do more.
ribka trapping wolves is allowed up here. I do lots of it. Most effective method is arial control. They are doing some......but need to do more.
thanks for clarification. Good to hear
^^^^^^^^^ I agree with 673, etc, on this issue and advocate for a 10% MAX. share of our BC game for GOs and foreign hunters as well as serious predator control by the F&W, BUT, this and the road restrictions NEED much greater funding and field CO staff to monitor and enforce these policies.
Will this happen, I doubt it and the huge influx of foreigners as immigrants into BC is a major reason why. So, I am not optimistic.
what do you think will happen after the ban for grizzly bear hunting? black bear, cougar then the rest. greens are against any kind of hunt for us ...
ribka trapping wolves is allowed up here. I do lots of it. Most effective method is arial control. They are doing some......but need to do more.
funny about the aerial control ... the guy in charge of that while working for the gvt was in favor now retired he is against ....
^^^^^^^^^ I agree with 673, etc, on this issue and advocate for a 10% MAX. share of our BC game for GOs and foreign hunters as well as serious predator control by the F&W, BUT, this and the road restrictions NEED much greater funding and field CO staff to monitor and enforce these policies.
Will this happen, I doubt it and the huge influx of foreigners as immigrants into BC is a major reason why. So, I am not optimistic.
what do you think will happen after the ban for grizzly bear hunting? black bear, cougar then the rest. greens are against any kind of hunt for us ...
What IS happening is perhaps the single most RACIST political action in all of recorded Canadian history and it is the result of the machinations of both extremist Quebec politicians, especially Pierre Trudeau, cursed be his vile name and three generations of "Cultural Marxists" in our pathetic "education system".
ONE minority will control all hunting and they will devastate it and most kids now do not know or care.......... hy ya ya hy ya ya...........
Snap.....couldnt agree more ^^^^^ Last fall 30 NWT "hunters" drove down with the intention of hunting the nahanni range caribou herd in November when the season is closed for the rest of us. The caribou are bunched up at that time of year so it would have been a massacre.....luckily the weather and road conditions went south so they left empty handed....
Snap.....couldnt agree more ^^^^^ Last fall 30 NWT "hunters" drove down with the intention of hunting the nahanni range caribou herd in November when the season is closed for the rest of us. The caribou are bunched up at that time of year so it would have been a massacre.....luckily the weather and road conditions went south so they left empty handed....
we have these same group of hunters, here in Washington, who go to the elk winter feeding stations to practice their long held traditions too from the cabs of their trucks. Over 30 yds from the road, well too much work. Some members have less than 30% heritage.